luvgirl said:

jaawwnn said:

God forbid I enter this thread but can someone dig up for me a time Susannah specifically said that Strange Relationship and Adore were about her.

Maybe my memory is faulty but I seem to recall she said the The Beautiful Ones was kind of about her and Prince's relationship but also written with the film in mind (i accept your evidence above). I think she (or someone) also laid claim to Condition of the Heart, or at least the Clara Bow line in it, and Forever in My Life (Prince actually confirmed that one) and If I Was Your Girlfriend. Oh and some of the more negative songs like Big Tall Wall and Empty Room. I just don't recall her saying anything about Strange Relationship or Adore though.

Oh for what it's worth I don't mind if they're all about Vanity, i'm just trying to find some evidence for what people are claiming in here.

[Edited 5/11/17 3:27am]

Here is the link to an article where Susannah says Strange Relationship was inspired by her. I just realized that she did not mention The Beautiful Ones in this article. Even though Susan Rogers suspected TBO was about her, SM never seemed confident in claiming it. I did hear others say she did claim this at one point, but it seems to me after all I've heard her say about the song, she eventually tried to back away from those claims. Down below is her quote from the article. http://beautifulnightschi...-with.html Susannah Melvoin on Prince songs that she inspired: "The infamous “Wally,” which no one heard because he destroyed the tape. There's a huge story behind that. “Strange Relationship;” “Nothing Compares 2 U;” In a Large Room with No Light;” “If I was Your Girlfriend.” God, you know there's more and I can't remember..."

Prince was gracious not to come out and publicly say she was wrong. I just want to hug him for that although we now know differently about the songs. I think Susan Rodgers was a fangurl of Prince and Susannah and started saying ti was for Susannah just like Alex Hahn and the book. They favored something and negatedor just ignored what was truth to fit their truth not the actual truth.

[Edited 5/11/17 19:29pm]

Vashtix said:

luvgirl said:

Vashtix said:

Prince was gracious not to come out and publicly say she was wrong. I just want to hug him for that although we now know differently about the songs. I think Susan Rodgers was a fangurl of Prince and Susannah and started saying ti was for Susannah just like Alex Hahn and the book. They favored something and negatedor just ignored what was truth to fit their truth not the actual truth.

[Edited 5/11/17 19:29pm]

I wonder what other songs will eventually come out that was inspired by Vanity? Let me see... I never meant to cause you any sorrow I never meant to cause you any pain never wanted to be your weekend lover I only wanted to be some kind of friend Baby, I could never steal you from another. (Berry Gordy) It's such a shame our friendship had to end... I never wanted your money honey (original lyrics) [Edited 5/11/17 19:55pm]

You are being quite bold and a bit naughty !! If Prince said TBOs was about Vanity and still there is debate you know this one . . . .

I am backing away very slowly . . . LOL!

Vashtix said:

luvgirl said:

moonsister said:

I think his focus for the songs was spiritual, for the woman who could be everything to a man, so not for anyone human since no woman can be everything to a man and vice versa. But without that fantasy of perfection you'd get songs like I'd make love to you forever Baby but I'm outta viagra and you're doing your nails.

Yea, Spiritual. Thats why he said... "The Beautiful ones you always seem to lose" "Vanity had just quit the movie." Yup, he bought her name up for spiritual reasons... Huh uh... Not that those lyrics had anything to do with her departure or anything like that. No way... Nope. She wasn't even human. He just mentioned her name out of nowhere with those lyrics because, because... Well, for spiritual reasons...
[Edited 5/11/17 20:40pm]

luvgirl said:

jaawwnn said:

God forbid I enter this thread but can someone dig up for me a time Susannah specifically said that Strange Relationship and Adore were about her.

Maybe my memory is faulty but I seem to recall she said the The Beautiful Ones was kind of about her and Prince's relationship but also written with the film in mind (i accept your evidence above). I think she (or someone) also laid claim to Condition of the Heart, or at least the Clara Bow line in it, and Forever in My Life (Prince actually confirmed that one) and If I Was Your Girlfriend. Oh and some of the more negative songs like Big Tall Wall and Empty Room. I just don't recall her saying anything about Strange Relationship or Adore though.

Oh for what it's worth I don't mind if they're all about Vanity, i'm just trying to find some evidence for what people are claiming in here.

[Edited 5/11/17 3:27am]

Here is the link to an article where Susannah says Strange Relationship was inspired by her. I just realized that she did not mention The Beautiful Ones in this article. Even though Susan Rogers suspected TBO was about her, SM never seemed confident in claiming it. I did hear others say she did claim it at one point, but it seems to me after all I've heard her say about the song, she eventually tried to back away from those claims. Down below is her quote from the article. http://beautifulnightschi...-with.html Susannah Melvoin on Prince songs that she inspired: "The infamous “Wally,” which no one heard because he destroyed the tape. There's a huge story behind that. “Strange Relationship;” “Nothing Compares 2 U;” In a Large Room with No Light;” “If I was Your Girlfriend.” God, you know there's more and I can't remember..." [Edited 5/11/17 19:33pm]

Aha, cool thanks. Interesting!

My personal opinion is that a lot of the art of Prince's music comes from his ability to both communicate to many people generally while also touching on aspects of his personal life and relationships without any of them being a 1:1 correlation to a specific relationship.

If some people in this thread want to believe all his songs are actually about Vanity fair enough, go for it. To my eyes that's pure fan fiction but hey, you might be right as well. Similarly if Susannah wants to say a song is about her be damned if i'm gonna argue with her, she was there, I wasn't

[Edited 5/12/17 17:59pm]

jaawwnn said:

Vashtix said:

jaawwnn said:

jaawwnn said:

Vashtix said:

Peeps are saying Prince shared who certsin songs were about. Susannah ckaimed ThecBeautiful Ones and Prince verifird not about her. She was there but clearly mistaken.
Prince wrote tons of songs. I do not think anyone said all were for Vanity. Even I find that ridiculous. However in the end he shared a few things anf many myths were shatterrd by him himself.
[Edited 5/12/17 18:15pm]

In all honesty Prince said a lot of things over the years that weren't true ("I'm never playing 1999 ever again" being the most benign example), I'm personally not one to take his word for much. One of the things he was very consistent about though was being pissed at people who made claims about his art or private life on his behalf. If someone said a song is about them of course he was gonna deny it, he always went the opposite way.

Strange Relationship 1983 I don't think is circulating so I don't know what the lyrics are but I see nothing odd that it was likely in someway about Vanity and then revived (and possibly altered) when he felt it applied to a more current girlfriend. Maybe Susannah is projecting, maybe Prince said "sure its about you" when asked about a song in 1984 or whenever and was lying to her or himself at the time, none of us have a clue.

He himself got that Ebony interview redacted saying it was inaccurate. Who do I believe there? Ebony actually, I believe its close to 100% accurate, they're more trustworthy than him with these things. He wrote better songs though

What I am taking from the discussion is that there is a certain signifigance or importance if a song inspired Prince to write it due to whomever (fill in the blank) These women who remain since his passing are now stating what was for them in order to prove how important they were to him , to try to validate their place in his life, his world.

Prince stated things in the Ebony article which I agree must be true because he did not want it published. He also said things in mourning with his guard down that I took as truth when the image was not paramount on his mind.

That said , I like knowing The Beautiful Ones was for Vanity and his dedication of the song to her and letting the public know it was for her was sweet.

However if he had never said it his sentiments towards her the last weeks of his life said more about her place in his life and gave her a validation that no debate on a message board or any books or interviews can remove because it came from Prince himself.

So- we can debate it but we have it from him. The debating and discounting of it is just excercise at this point.

[Edited 5/13/17 14:42pm]

anangellooksdown said:

Hi y'all. Just jumped on here real quick to say that I'm reading Devin Vasquez's book right now and she says Prince told her his first girlfriend was Susan Moonsie and that she broke his heart, and that he wrote When Doves Cry when she ultimately left him and got married. Devin also says she thinks that Prince liked to have the image of being with a wild woman, but he really wanted a lady and that's why he and Vanity didn't work out. She says Vanity was the mirror image of himself. She says he was so highly energetic and such a genius that she feels he needed someone who could challenge him physically, mentally and spiritually, but he couldn't find that in one woman and that's why he would be with more than woman. See, in that RS article in 2014 he was honest when he said that if he were to marry again, something would have to pull him in...something he couldn't get away from. Her book is very revealing about a lot of who Prince was. He could resist a woman if he needed to focus on preparing for a performance or was on tour...that came first...and he wasn't in a rush to have sex. I feel that Prince wanted to be sure that they actually wanted to be around first.

Not trying to be argumentive but I thought when Doves Cry was written before Susan Moonsie was married. Again you are proving my point. One after one after another keeps trying to prove why Prince and Vanity/Denise did not have a connection. I am just stating I feel as if they shared a bond. I am not saying they were soulmates etc. They were twin flames, mirror, whatvever. They lead parallel lives and they left this dimension within weeks of one another.

Thanks for sharing that is interesting stuff from Devin.

[Edited 5/13/17 14:43pm]

[Edited 5/13/17 14:51pm]

Vashtix said:

anangellooksdown said:

luvgirl said:

anangellooksdown said:

I agree with you Vashtix about the mirror image and them passing around the same time - and more. I'm basically just expressing this as I read and wondering what you all think of what Devin said. Now, I just read something else: Devin says in her heart she believes Adore was written about her. I kind of feel a side-eye coming in from Prince, but I'm not sure. I always thought of Adore as being about Denise. The reasons Devin gives are not very convincing to me. Wow. [Edited 5/13/17 15:05pm]

I've read this book. Not trying to put her down. Her book was a harmless read. Kind of just for fun. I wouldn't take it too seriously. You can tell by the way that she wrote, that she got a lot of the information from either reading articles or God Forbid Prince.org. Here is an example of what I mean. She states mostly her opinions and not actual facts. Prince looked for traits of himself in the women he was drawn to romantically. That’s why most of them were the same type physically. The women Prince was involved with at the time of his tours spoke volumes about where he was in life. During his “1999 and “Controversy” tours was when he was involved with Vanity and most of his songs were highly sexual. Now with ‘Purple Rain’ there was another side of Prince that he was trying to show. I think that’s why he played the piano whenever we were alone for me. He knew I was more of a romantic and wanted to woo me with his sweet, softer side. (This whole paragraph was her opinion) Prince told me Susan Moonsie was his first love and his high school sweetheart. He spoke fondly of Susan and said she was the first to break his heart. It was hard for Prince to let Susan go once Vanity entered the picture romantically and I think that’s what broke Vanity and Prince up. Can you imagine putting them both together to work in the same band, like he did with ‘Vanity 6?’ There were bound to be problems! (Prince might of told her that Susan Moonsie was his high school sweetheart but she injected a lot of her thoughts in this paragraph) I think Prince had the Madonna/ Whore complex and wanted the outward perception of being with a wild woman … but he really wanted a lady. That’s why he and Vanity didn’t work out. Vanity was the mirror female image of himself. Vanity would later say in the press she left Prince because she needed one man to love her and he needed more. (This whole paragraph was again based on her opinion) I could go on and on with the I thinks, but I'd be posting till this thread self lock.. [Edited 5/13/17 16:30pm]

Thanks I haven't read that before.......I came across this on twitter

anangellooksdown said:

Vashtix said:

Not trying to be argumentive but I thought when Doves Cry was written before Susan Moonsie was married. Again you are proving my point. One after one after another keeps trying to prove why Prince and Vanity/Denise did not have a connection. I am just stating I feel as if they shared a bond. I am not saying they were soulmates etc. They were twin flames, mirror, whatvever. They lead parallel lives and they left this dimension within weeks of one another.

Thanks for sharing that is interesting stuff from Devin.

[Edited 5/13/17 14:43pm]

[Edited 5/13/17 14:51pm]

I agree with you Vashtix about the mirror image and them passing around the same time - and more. I'm basically just expressing this as I read and wondering what you all think of what Devin said. Now, I just read something else: Devin says in her heart she believes Adore was written about her. I kind of feel a side-eye coming in from Prince, but I'm not sure. I always thought of Adore as being about Denise. The reasons Devin gives are not very convincing to me. Wow. [Edited 5/13/17 15:05pm]

It is her heart and she is allowed "her truth". We all have our own truths. I have to admit there are so many women coming out with books and in mags and everyone has something to say and they all felt they had something special but the one theme is in them all- Vanity was something of a discussion. I find that interesting he discussed her with the side pieces, wives and girlfriends.

I also note they all feel a song is theirs.

My opinion is Prince was the master in charm and seduction. He could have made money giving lessons because he clearly had it on lock.

I am sure more and more women will be coming out with their truths Devin is not alone.

Adore is a ballad for the ages . . . it gets no better . . . until the end of time .. . .

That song is a gift to all forever.

.

[Edited 5/13/17 18:53pm]

Niagara reporters tops in Ontario http://www.stcatharinesst...in-ontario

“Much of my column on the death of Denise Matthews — re: Vanity — came from a conversation nearly a decade ago with the former Niagara Falls beauty queen. She was completely unique, and so indifferent to her past celebrity. Our talk stuck with me for a long time. I’m sad we’ll never have another interview.”

Goddess4Real said:

luvgirl said:

Goddess4Real said:

Niagara reporters tops in Ontario http://www.stcatharinesst...in-ontario

“Much of my column on the death of Denise Matthews — re: Vanity — came from a conversation nearly a decade ago with the former Niagara Falls beauty queen. She was completely unique, and so indifferent to her past celebrity. Our talk stuck with me for a long time. I’m sad we’ll never have another interview.”

Your welcome, she had quite a few Vanity references. She knew what she was doing. Here's a few more that stood out. "I also told him how tired I was about being compared to Apollonia and he said I didn’t really look like her that much. He said I looked more like Vanity, going on to explain that he had dated Vanity, but that he had not dated Apollonia. She was just acting as his love interest for the movie, “Purple Rain.” "Denise was a part of Prince’s early roots. If you wondered why Prince chose women who looked so similar all you had to do was look at Vanity –he saw himself in her. Prince changed her name from Denise to Vanity, and he developed ‘Purple Rain’ as a vehicle to make them both major stars. Crossover mainstream stardom was something both Prince and Vanity wanted badly in the mid 80’ s. The part Apollonia played was written for Vanity initially, but Vanity and Prince broke up and Vanity left him before shooting began on ‘Purple Rain.’ "When Vanity came through the door I thought she was absolutely stunning and could see why Prince was so attracted to her. She was like a female version of Prince to me. They had similar features and I do believe that’s why Prince has been most attracted to women whom he can find himself in. That’s why most of the women Prince dated looked like they all could be sisters. Vanity was very cool with me and seemed as curious about me as I was about her. Valentino explained to her that Steve Fargnoli was managing me and told her about my ‘Star Search’ win. I went on to explain that Prince and I were just friends and that he thought I looked like her. She seemed flattered and smiled, but I could see there was sadness in her eyes and I sensed she probably still loved Prince." [Edited 5/13/17 19:54pm]

Thanks for sharing these tidbits from Devin's book.

She did look like Vanity and in fact, I had to do a double take when I saw Prince's dad photographed with her at the UTCM premier. I thought it was Vanity.

It's interesting that she met her. Makes me wonder why she would've been coming through door when Devin was there.

At least her reaction was curiosity and then sadness verses other reactions she could've had.

Goddess4Real said:

moonsister said:

Goddess4Real said:

Sooooooo romantic, I love the way he tells her he loves her now, then, and forevermore. . . Wait, what?

That letter was confirmation they stayed in contact after the fallout of Purple Rain. Let me preface -not baiting or being combative. Please share why you feel the need to make fun of a letter of encouragement to a friend?

Prince was a man who lifted the spirits of many. I will repeat: the need to discount the bond between them is mind boggling.

I already established the love if his life to me is music. However , that does not negate my belief he and Denise were mirrors, twin flames. Below is information about twin flames:

There tends to be a lot of confusion about what a “twin flame” relationship really is. Unlike “soul mates,” which are our perfect matches (or our spiritual family) twin flames are our perfect mirrors. Relationships with twin flames tend to be on-again-off-again, intensely passionate, and sometimes intensely painful.

http://thoughtcatalog.com/brianna-wiest/2016/09/18-signs-youre-experiencing-whats-known-as-a-twin-flame-relationship/

moonsister said:

"Sooooo romantic, I love the way he tells her he loves her now, then, and forevermore. . . Wait, what?"

You're trying way too hard.

I thought you said you liked her in another post???
[b][Edited 5/14/17 7:03am]

luvgirl said:

Vashtix said:

That letter was confirmation they stayed in contact after the fallout of Purple Rain. Let me preface -not baiting or being combative. Please share why you feel the need to make fun of a letter of encouragement to a friend? Prince was a man who lifted the spirits of many. I will repeat: the need to discount the bond between them is mind boggling. I already established the love if his life to me is music. However , that does not negate my belief he and Denise were mirrors, twin flames. Below is information about twin flames: There tends to be a lot of confusion about what a “twin flame” relationship really is. Unlike “soul mates,” which are our perfect matches (or our spiritual family) twin flames are our perfect mirrors. Relationships with twin flames tend to be on-again-off-again, intensely passionate, and sometimes intensely painful.

This is a good explanation Vashtix. I never heard of the term twin flame until you bought it to our attention. Thanks for your input. They did have this type of relationship. Whatever the case, they loved each other passionately at one point and even though the relationship didn't last, they were still attuned with each other. They made quite an impact as a couple. They lived parallel lives, and died within weeks of each other. They stayed connected until the very end. They definitely shared a strong bond. This was perhaps the most honest thing Alex Hahn said about Vanity in his book. Even he knew about that connection, and he didn't particularly seemed like he held her in high esteem. "Of all of Prince’s muses, perhaps none was more inextricably linked to him than Denise Matthews. Although she was replaced by Patricia Kotero as the female lead of Purple Rain, Matthews’ erotic energy still loomed over the film. Prince’s pained screams during “The Beautiful Ones” could not have been stimulated by the blank slate that was Kotero –Matthews was a much more likely catalyst for one of the most powerful displays of emotion in his career." ( he didn't need to call Appolonia a blank slate though, that was kind of mean.. ) [Edited 5/14/17 7:49am]

Hahn should have just came straight and told the reader Prince confessed in his tribute to Vanity that he wrote TBOs for her and even said "she knows about this one". THIS MAN cannot even say that, What did Denise do piss on his Cheerios? He gave her a backhanded mention again.

Dissing Apples too?

I am sorry I just can't believe people take his word as the THE WORD on Prince. That statement there is enough for me not to take it as serious. He really has issues with both women.

We know that Prince was wailing for Vanity the world knows- he said as much in the Tribute. He also asked God to return her back home to me". That conveniently was not in the book either.

So slanted.

Sorry for the rant but he refused to come out and just say it.

Vashtix said:

Vashtix said: