TrivialPursuit said:

AnnaSantana said:

No, some people are terrified of learning that Prince really wasn't the singular genius the world thinks he is. If Wendy and Lisa really wrote "Strange Relationship" and "Raspberry Beret" and "Mountains", then where does that leave Prince? What DID he do, if at all??? The answer to that question scares the hell out of some people. If Prince really wasn't the genius, but Wendy and Lisa were, then what are we all doing here??

You're protesting too much. No one ever said that W&L wrote those songs. But they worked on them. We know that by the earlier version of SR, and ICNTTPOYM. And apparently they worked on them to a point that Prince gave them credit. They could have been minimal songs at that point, until W&L added production to it. That was enough for Prince. However, they're not listed as cowriters, but to say The Revolution isn't on SOTT is ridiculous.

Even Jesse Johnson has said when the band was jamming, and someone came up with a hook, he knew when to give credit when someone really came up with something, opposed to when someone is just really having a moment in those moments. Dr. Fink had the original synth hook for "Dirty Mind", and he gave him credit. Prince gave credit (usually) where it was due. Hell, he was putting papa's name on stuff he probably had nothing to do with, but that was for a different rea$on.

So let's not get hyperbolic about who wrote what. You listed three songs, and Prince recorded thousands? "What DID he do?" Plenty.

You're misunderstanding me, I'm only explaining why I think some fans have a problem with Wendy and Lisa, that's all. I agree with what you said about everything.

AnnaSantana said:

TrivialPursuit said:

You're protesting too much. No one ever said that W&L wrote those songs. But they worked on them. We know that by the earlier version of SR, and ICNTTPOYM. And apparently they worked on them to a point that Prince gave them credit. They could have been minimal songs at that point, until W&L added production to it. That was enough for Prince. However, they're not listed as cowriters, but to say The Revolution isn't on SOTT is ridiculous.

Even Jesse Johnson has said when the band was jamming, and someone came up with a hook, he knew when to give credit when someone really came up with something, opposed to when someone is just really having a moment in those moments. Dr. Fink had the original synth hook for "Dirty Mind", and he gave him credit. Prince gave credit (usually) where it was due. Hell, he was putting papa's name on stuff he probably had nothing to do with, but that was for a different rea$on.

So let's not get hyperbolic about who wrote what. You listed three songs, and Prince recorded thousands? "What DID he do?" Plenty.

You're misunderstanding me, I'm only explaining why I think some fans have a problem with Wendy and Lisa, that's all. I agree with what you said about everything.

Got it. but I'll leave it for the naysayers.

W&L deserve more credit for their involvement with Prince than they get. It's amazing to see how people try to minimize it here.

TrivialPursuit said:

AnnaSantana said:

You're misunderstanding me, I'm only explaining why I think some fans have a problem with Wendy and Lisa, that's all. I agree with what you said about everything.

Got it. but I'll leave it for the naysayers.

Some people think it's racial also. Meaning, it's just akin to another great black man having credit taken away from him and giving it to a white person, or in this case, persons.

Wowugotit said:

W&L deserve more credit for their involvement with Prince than they get. It's amazing to see how people try to minimize it here.

People have been arguing over this stuff for decades...and they will until the end of time.

purplethunder3121 said:

Wowugotit said:

W&L deserve more credit for their involvement with Prince than they get. It's amazing to see how people try to minimize it here.

People have been arguing over this stuff for decades...and they will until the end of time.

I wonder what the generations of Prince followers will be like when the real purple soldiers are gone.
I mean like those of us who witness all or the majority of the 1978-2016 period.

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplethunder3121 said:

People have been arguing over this stuff for decades...and they will until the end of time.

I wonder what the generations of Prince followers will be like when the real purple soldiers are gone.
I mean like those of us who witness all or the majority of the 1978-2016 period.

Dunno...But I bet they'll never be as funkycool as us OGs, dammit!

LBrent said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I wonder what the generations of Prince followers will be like when the real purple soldiers are gone.
I mean like those of us who witness all or the majority of the 1978-2016 period.

Dunno...But I bet they'll never be as funkycool as us OGs, dammit!

If the following generations are as into Prince music as my son is, then his legacy is ensured.

What exactly are you saying about their contribution to Strange Relationship...that they wrote it??

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

IWD4U is a song title, SOTT is both a song title and an album title. This creates a certain ambiguity as to what she means. People will take this and run with it. This thread is proof of that. People now claim that W&L probably went uncredited on many of the songs on SOTT without any evidence whatsoever. Wendy knows how this works. This is how she usually operates.

As to the idea that W&L deserves credit because SOTT "came out of" the Deam Factory project, so what? The songs that the band contributed to were left off the album (with a couple of exceptions, IGBABN bing the most important).

Strange Relationships and Slow Love as well.

but again the purpose and energy of the albums music was created during the Dream Factory sessions.

From the Time. to the earlier Prince band they all have talked about how things were rehearsed and then how Prince recorded. Prince would flesh out songs with the band(s) and then recorded it either himself, with the full band or partial.

.

So when we hear a song like Screams of Passion (if that is all Prince on the released) we also heard him with the Revolution working on the song. So to say 'they had nothing to do with it' is wrong.

.

And yes it was Wendy on Irresistable Bitch, not Sheila E.

purplethunder3121 said:

LBrent said:

Dunno...But I bet they'll never be as funkycool as us OGs, dammit!

If the following generations are as into Prince music as my son is, then his legacy is ensured.

Excellent!

Yeah, I'm teaching my grand daughters about P's music and they adore Batman 1989 anyway so there's that.

I taught them how to make the wild sign...my daughters were not amused.

LBrent said:

purplethunder3121 said:

If the following generations are as into Prince music as my son is, then his legacy is ensured.

Excellent!

Yeah, I'm teaching my grand daughters about P's music and they adore Batman 1989 anyway so there's that.

I taught them how to make the wild sign...my daughters were not amused.

Good for you! Despite your daughters' censure. Too funny. It might not be too long before there are wedding bells in my son's future...and more...

purplethunder3121 said:

LBrent said:

Excellent!

Yeah, I'm teaching my grand daughters about P's music and they adore Batman 1989 anyway so there's that.

I taught them how to make the wild sign...my daughters were not amused.

Good for you! Despite your daughters' censure. Too funny. It might not be too long before there are wedding bells in my son's future...and more...

Oooooh...congratulations!

LBrent said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Good for you! Despite your daughters' censure. Too funny. It might not be too long before there are wedding bells in my son's future...and more...

Oooooh...congratulations!

Well, not yet. But, I find that in the past year I am now looking forward to becoming a grandparent unlike in years before...

purplethunder3121 said:

LBrent said:

Oooooh...congratulations!

Well, not yet. But, I find that in the past year I am now looking forward to becoming a grandparent unlike in years before...

Nice!

Spoil those grandbabies up real good, teach em about P, then send em home and go dancin!

LBrent said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Well, not yet. But, I find that in the past year I am now looking forward to becoming a grandparent unlike in years before...

Nice!

Spoil those grandbabies up real good, teach em about P, then send em home and go dancin!

Right on!

U know dam well I did not say that lol
I obviously explained myself in the thread already

You'll have to trace back the conversation

purplerabbithole said:

What exactly are you saying about their contribution to Strange Relationship...that they wrote it??

OldFriends4Sale said:

Strange Relationships and Slow Love as well.

but again the purpose and energy of the albums music was created during the Dream Factory sessions.

From the Time. to the earlier Prince band they all have talked about how things were rehearsed and then how Prince recorded. Prince would flesh out songs with the band(s) and then recorded it either himself, with the full band or partial.

.

So when we hear a song like Screams of Passion (if that is all Prince on the released) we also heard him with the Revolution working on the song. So to say 'they had nothing to do with it' is wrong.

.

And yes it was Wendy on Irresistable Bitch, not Sheila E.

Actually I didn't know for sure what you meant. I think you said that Prince gave credit to Wendy or Susannah for backup singing but someone else referenced how upset fans would be if they knew or if it turned out that Wendy and Lisa wrote MOuntains, Raspberry Beret, and Strange Relationship. I wasn't sure if there was some rumor going around that W and L wrote Strange Relationship but that he only gave them credit for backup singing. I was just making sure I knew what you thought W and L's real contributions were to the song.

OldFriends4Sale said:

U know dam well I did not say that lol
I obviously explained myself in the thread already

You'll have to trace back the conversation

purplerabbithole said:

What exactly are you saying about their contribution to Strange Relationship...that they wrote it??

purplerabbithole said:

Actually I didn't know for sure what you meant. I think you said that Prince gave credit to Wendy or Susannah for backup singing but someone else referenced how upset fans would be if they knew or if it turned out that Wendy and Lisa wrote MOuntains, Raspberry Beret, and Strange Relationship. I wasn't sure if there was some rumor going around that W and L wrote Strange Relationship but that he only gave them credit for backup singing. I was just making sure I knew what you thought W and L's real contributions were to the song.

OldFriends4Sale said:

U know dam well I did not say that lol
I obviously explained myself in the thread already

You'll have to trace back the conversation

I think you are mixing me up with post #57 by AnnaSantana?

.

But yes Lisa Coleman did compose the music for Mountains(originally called Carousel)

.

I think your posts question has mixed in a lot of different peoples questions/hyperboles etc

I think someone said Wendy & Lisa were not on Strange Relationships(the album cut), but they are still on it -and Prince credited them on the album. He just removed some of the Middle Eastern, instrumentations.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Who wrote the melody and lyrics to Strange Relationship?

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplerabbithole said:

Actually I didn't know for sure what you meant. I think you said that Prince gave credit to Wendy or Susannah for backup singing but someone else referenced how upset fans would be if they knew or if it turned out that Wendy and Lisa wrote MOuntains, Raspberry Beret, and Strange Relationship. I wasn't sure if there was some rumor going around that W and L wrote Strange Relationship but that he only gave them credit for backup singing. I was just making sure I knew what you thought W and L's real contributions were to the song.

I think you are mixing me up with post #57 by AnnaSantana?

.

But yes Lisa Coleman did compose the music for Mountains(originally called Carousel)

.

I think your posts question has mixed in a lot of different peoples questions/hyperboles etc

I think someone said Wendy & Lisa were not on Strange Relationships(the album cut), but they are still on it -and Prince credited them on the album. He just removed some of the Middle Eastern, instrumentations.

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplerabbithole said:

Who wrote the melody and lyrics to Strange Relationship?

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think you are mixing me up with post #57 by AnnaSantana?

.

But yes Lisa Coleman did compose the music for Mountains(originally called Carousel)

.

I think your posts question has mixed in a lot of different peoples questions/hyperboles etc

I think someone said Wendy & Lisa were not on Strange Relationships(the album cut), but they are still on it -and Prince credited them on the album. He just removed some of the Middle Eastern, instrumentations.

we don't know the full story

I just know there was a little 'Kiss like' Strange Relationships demo from 1981/82

.
Lisa pulled it it up along with New Position and a few others work on

.

1984 Billy's Sunglasses rehearsal/jam @ 45:13min some mix of what sounds like Strange Relationships Prince is cranking out on the electric guiter and there is those crystal like sounds from Other Here With Us...a rock version

.

1984 piano session (Mama/Coffee & Cocaine) Prince doodling around with lyric and piano-Strange Relationship-International Lover-Wednesday

.

1985 Purple Rain tour soundcheck the band is doing an instrumental of a mellower Strange Relationships that reminds us of the Something In the Water Does Not Computer 6.7.1984 show

.

Then there is 1986 'Dream Factory' version with more Arabic instrumentation

Vashtix said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I wonder what the generations of Prince followers will be like when the real purple soldiers are gone.
I mean like those of us who witness all or the majority of the 1978-2016 period.

I have wondered the same. I do not tho k they will care as much about the girlfriends, side pieces and wives. I think the genius of his art will be paramount for them.

I hope the 'history books' won't remember much of this mess of cat fighting.

I suspect the 2 wives will be remembered. And women he dated that had significant connections with periods of music, not mess.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think you are mixing me up with post #57 by AnnaSantana?

.

But yes Lisa Coleman did compose the music for Mountains(originally called Carousel)

.

I think your posts question has mixed in a lot of different peoples questions/hyperboles etc

I think someone said Wendy & Lisa were not on Strange Relationships(the album cut), but they are still on it -and Prince credited them on the album. He just removed some of the Middle Eastern, instrumentations.

Carousel turned into Power Fantastic,didn't it? Not Mountains.

Yes, thank U it was Power Fantastic

Well, that doesnt prove that Prince didn't write it. It proves that it came in different manifestations and LIsa reworked it with overdubs and 'sitars' which he apparently took out...just like Prince Vault describes it.

the lyrics and melody are still his probably. My understanding is that arrangers of songs are not the writers. If that were the case then the Beatles couldn't claim ownership of half their songs on Sergeant Peppers.

LIsa being a great arranger (and Prince probably did some arranging himself) doesn't prove she secretly wrote the song and Prince lied about it. So, should there be any questions about the 'full story'?

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplerabbithole said:

Who wrote the melody and lyrics to Strange Relationship?

we don't know the full story

I just know there was a little 'Kiss like' Strange Relationships demo from 1981/82

.
Lisa pulled it it up along with New Position and a few others work on

.

1984 Billy's Sunglasses rehearsal/jam @ 45:13min some mix of what sounds like Strange Relationships Prince is cranking out on the electric guiter and there is those crystal like sounds from Other Here With Us...a rock version

.

1984 piano session (Mama/Coffee & Cocaine) Prince doodling around with lyric and piano-Strange Relationship-International Lover-Wednesday

.

1985 Purple Rain tour soundcheck the band is doing an instrumental of a mellower Strange Relationships that reminds us of the Something In the Water Does Not Computer 6.7.1984 show

.

Then there is 1986 'Dream Factory' version with more Arabic instrumentation

[Edited 4/15/17 9:08am]

[Edited 4/15/17 9:10am]

I never said he didn't write it

Go back to your post #68 where you are 'accusing/questioning me' of saying Prince didn't write it:What exactly are you saying about their contribution to Strange Relationship...that they wrote it??

You might want to find the person who might be actually saying that and pose those questions to them.

They still played instruments onthe song that were were not taken out and ended up on the Camille versionof the song.

Composers Writers Arrangers.

Again, you are still insinuating I'm saying something I did not say. You might want to find the person who might be actually saying that and pose those questions to them.

purplerabbithole said:

Well, that doesnt prove that Prince didn't write it. It proves that it came in different manifestations and LIsa reworked it with overdubs and 'sitars' which he apparently took out...just like Prince Vault describes it.

the lyrics and melody are still his probably. My understanding is that arrangers of songs are not the writers. If that were the case then the Beatles couldn't claim ownership of half their songs on Sergeant Peppers.

LIsa being a great arranger (and Prince probably did some arranging himself) doesn't prove she secretly wrote the song and Prince lied about it. So, should there be any questions about the 'full story'?

OldFriends4Sale said:

we don't know the full story

I just know there was a little 'Kiss like' Strange Relationships demo from 1981/82

.
Lisa pulled it it up along with New Position and a few others work on

.

1984 Billy's Sunglasses rehearsal/jam @ 45:13min some mix of what sounds like Strange Relationships Prince is cranking out on the electric guiter and there is those crystal like sounds from Other Here With Us...a rock version

.

1984 piano session (Mama/Coffee & Cocaine) Prince doodling around with lyric and piano-Strange Relationship-International Lover-Wednesday

.

1985 Purple Rain tour soundcheck the band is doing an instrumental of a mellower Strange Relationships that reminds us of the Something In the Water Does Not Computer 6.7.1984 show

.

Then there is 1986 'Dream Factory' version with more Arabic instrumentation

[Edited 4/15/17 9:08am]

[Edited 4/15/17 9:10am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

we don't know the full story

I just know there was a little 'Kiss like' Strange Relationships demo from 1981/82

.
Lisa pulled it it up along with New Position and a few others work on

.

1984 Billy's Sunglasses rehearsal/jam @ 45:13min some mix of what sounds like Strange Relationships Prince is cranking out on the electric guiter and there is those crystal like sounds from Other Here With Us...a rock version

.

1984 piano session (Mama/Coffee & Cocaine) Prince doodling around with lyric and piano-Strange Relationship-International Lover-Wednesday

.

1985 Purple Rain tour soundcheck the band is doing an instrumental of a mellower Strange Relationships that reminds us of the Something In the Water Does Not Computer 6.7.1984 show

.

Then there is 1985-86 'Dream Factory' version with more Arabic instrumentation

I think the piano session is earlier. 82?

The ending has Wednesay (What Will I Do) so I'm thinking this is the 1984 period

Those other songs Coffee & Cocaine and Mama are along with it and the PR period rehearsal and recordings

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I never said he didn't write it

Go back to your post #68 where you are 'accusing/questioning me' of saying Prince didn't write it:What exactly are you saying about their contribution to Strange Relationship...that they wrote it??

You might want to find the person who might be actually saying that and pose those questions to them.

They still played instruments onthe song that were were not taken out and ended up on the Camille versionof the song.

Composers Writers Arrangers.

Again, you are still insinuating I'm saying something I did not say. You might want to find the person who might be actually saying that and pose those questions to them.

Actually you're not exactly clear in this yourself OldFriends4Sale. You were asked a simple question. Did W&L write Strange Relationship? You answer with a long list of rehearsals. Dodging the question. So what do you think? Did W&L write Strange Relationship?

I was/am extremely clear on it.

.

And explained the reason I did not go into answering it.

.

reply #75

U know dam well I did not say that lol
I obviously explained myself in the thread already

You'll have to trace back the conversation

.

and after I said that I'll be jumped up if purplerabbit still replied with "Well, that doesnt prove that Prince didn't write it."

.

how much clearer do I need to be?

then I replied to purplerabbits "I think you said and someone else said" post and the "I was just making sure I knew what you thought W and L's real contributions were to the song." so I made sure they know what I thought W & L contributions along with some of the history of the song is.

.

from the friggin start of this I was talking about credit, not creator, back when I replied to Your post. So u know I never said they wrote it.

.

This isn't double dutch jump roping, if we are going to be in a conversation (where we can follow back by reading the posts) then we have to do a little work, and stop asking people to repeat themselves. and not mix up things said by multiple people and direct it all 2 1 person.