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Thread started 02/17/17 12:26pm

lwr001

the not discussing drugs until after 4/21

is a bad idea IMHO..this topic and how if affected Prince and others can literally be the one topic on this board that saves someones life..I urge the MODS to reconsider

That is all

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Reply #1 posted 02/17/17 12:59pm

lemoncrush19

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I'm sorry I don't get it. this is the fan community site of a musical genius. why should this be the place of choice for people with drug addiction? and how could any discussion some music fans could have without any profound knowledge about that topic be helpful for someone with an addiction? I'm pretty sure there are plenty of approved spots on- and offine where professionals are happy to help.
the only love there is is the love we make heart
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Reply #2 posted 02/17/17 1:09pm

TrivialPursuit

To talk about drugs is one thing. For fans to blather on about conspiracy theories and the melodrama should absolutely be shut da fuq down. Things I'm way over hearing about:

  • He knew he was going to die (we all know we're doing to die)
  • He was in so much pain he just gave up (in an elevator, really?)
  • He was murdered (if conspiracies were a knife, his fans would've offed him long ago)
  • Something isn't right (like those theories?)
  • "Saw a video, more tears, can't speak" (really, cuz ya just typed 7 words)
  • I just can't believe it (you can't see air, but do you believe you're not breathing it?, stop making it about self)

Fans should mourn, and grieve. It's a natural process. But so is acceptance. To wallow in that endlessly because it's too uncomfortable to operate in truth and reality is only a hindrance to the mourner. There is no honor in suffering. There's no glory in denial. I'd rather cry over something that is real, than something imagined. Tears never wash away the truth, they clarify it.


There's only clarity once focus is centered on the truth.

.

.

.

[Edited 2/17/17 22:09pm]

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
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Reply #3 posted 02/17/17 1:15pm

lwr001

TrivialPursuit said:

To talk about drugs is one thing. For fans to blather on about conspiracy theories and the melodrama should absolutely be shut da fuq down. Things I'm way over hearing about:

  • He knew he was going to die (we all know we're doing to die)
  • He was in so much pain he just gave up (in an elevator, really?)
  • He was murdered (if conspiracies were a knife, his fans would've offed him long ago)
  • Something isn't right (like those theories?)
  • "Saw a video, more tears, can't speak" (really, cuz ya just typed 7 words)
  • I just can't believe it (you can't see air, but do you believe you're not breathing it?, stop making it about self)

Fans should mourn, and grieve. It's a natural process. But so is acceptance. To wallow in that endlessly because it's too uncomfortable to operate in truth and reality is only a hindrance to the mourner. There is no honor in suffering. There's no glory in denial. I'd rather cry over something that is real, that something imagined. Tears never wash away the truth, they clarify it.


There's only clarity once focus is centered on the truth.

thanks

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Reply #4 posted 02/17/17 1:16pm

lwr001

lemoncrush19 said:

I'm sorry I don't get it. this is the fan community site of a musical genius. why should this be the place of choice for people with drug addiction? and how could any discussion some music fans could have without any profound knowledge about that topic be helpful for someone with an addiction? I'm pretty sure there are plenty of approved spots on- and offine where professionals are happy to help.

i stated it could save someones life..to ignore the elephant in the room is silly IMHO

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Reply #5 posted 02/17/17 1:20pm

lemoncrush19

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lwr001 said:



lemoncrush19 said:


I'm sorry I don't get it. this is the fan community site of a musical genius. why should this be the place of choice for people with drug addiction? and how could any discussion some music fans could have without any profound knowledge about that topic be helpful for someone with an addiction? I'm pretty sure there are plenty of approved spots on- and offine where professionals are happy to help.



i stated it could save someones life..to ignore the elephant in the room is silly IMHO



WHAT could save someone's life?
what EXACTLY should take place on this board to do so?
the only love there is is the love we make heart
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Reply #6 posted 02/17/17 1:29pm

lwr001

lemoncrush19 said:

lwr001 said:

i stated it could save someones life..to ignore the elephant in the room is silly IMHO

WHAT could save someone's life? what EXACTLY should take place on this board to do so?

dont know ,,I have no answers,,maybe they read something i am unsure,,why would you be afraid of that ..maybe its a cautionary tale

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Reply #7 posted 02/17/17 1:42pm

disch

Any discussion of actual addiction on this site -- separate from the various theories and fantasies that TrivialPursuit so accurately laid out -- had devolved into such laughable ignorance (not to mention puritanical judgmentalism and mean-spiritedness) that I don't think it would provide any help to someone struggling with these problems. Those in need should seek out medically accurate and compassionate support and I'm afraid they wouldn't find much of that here. (And mods feel free to lock this thread up per the rules.)

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Reply #8 posted 02/17/17 1:42pm

lemoncrush19

avatar

lwr001 said:



lemoncrush19 said:


lwr001 said:




i stated it could save someones life..to ignore the elephant in the room is silly IMHO



WHAT could save someone's life? what EXACTLY should take place on this board to do so?



dont know ,,I have no answers,,maybe they read something i am unsure,,why would you be afraid of that ..maybe its a cautionary tale



:yeahthat: and no one here does. that's why someone seeking help could only read hearsay and guessing. not helpful! again: this is a community of prince fans. not an addiction center. that's why this is the wrong place for that topic.
the only love there is is the love we make heart
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Reply #9 posted 02/17/17 1:43pm

ufoclub

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lemoncrush19 said:

lwr001 said:

i stated it could save someones life..to ignore the elephant in the room is silly IMHO

WHAT could save someone's life? what EXACTLY should take place on this board to do so?

The discussion of even someone like Prince having sought help (but too late) could convince someone that getting help is the way to go. Plus it shows that the problem of overdosing is not limited to cliche situations of partying or decadent lifestyle. It can be doctors themselves that have a problem.

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Reply #10 posted 02/17/17 1:47pm

lwr001

ufoclub said:

lemoncrush19 said:

lwr001 said: WHAT could save someone's life? what EXACTLY should take place on this board to do so?

The discussion of even someone like Prince having sought help (but too late) could convince someone that getting help is the way to go. Plus it shows that the problem of overdosing is not limited to cliche situations of partying or decadent lifestyle. It can be doctors themselves that have a problem.

this

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Reply #11 posted 02/17/17 1:48pm

disch

The problem is that, over the past 10 months any attempt to have a discussion here about "people like Prince" having a problem with addiction quickly gets drowned out by the "he wasn't addicted! he was murdered!" or "he wasn't addicted! He was just crippled with joint pain!" or whatver crowd. So the utility of said discussion to people struggling becomes very limited.

ufoclub said:

lemoncrush19 said:

lwr001 said: WHAT could save someone's life? what EXACTLY should take place on this board to do so?

The discussion of even someone like Prince having sought help (but too late) could convince someone that getting help is the way to go. Plus it shows that the problem of overdosing is not limited to cliche situations of partying or decadent lifestyle. It can be doctors themselves that have a problem.

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Reply #12 posted 02/17/17 1:49pm

lwr001

lemoncrush19 said:

lwr001 said:

dont know ,,I have no answers,,maybe they read something i am unsure,,why would you be afraid of that ..maybe its a cautionary tale

yeahthat and no one here does. that's why someone seeking help could only read hearsay and guessing. not helpful! again: this is a community of prince fans. not an addiction center. that's why this is the wrong place for that topic.

who are you to say whats helpful...you have already taken this in a whole other level..you are the problem with threads like these

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Reply #13 posted 02/17/17 1:56pm

lwr001

disch said:

The problem is that, over the past 10 months any attempt to have a discussion here about "people like Prince" having a problem with addiction quickly gets drowned out by the "he wasn't addicted! he was murdered!" or "he wasn't addicted! He was just crippled with joint pain!" or whatver crowd. So the utility of said discussion to people struggling becomes very limited.

ufoclub said:

The discussion of even someone like Prince having sought help (but too late) could convince someone that getting help is the way to go. Plus it shows that the problem of overdosing is not limited to cliche situations of partying or decadent lifestyle. It can be doctors themselves that have a problem.

understood

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Reply #14 posted 02/17/17 2:05pm

CharismaDove

Whys it locked anyway? I don't see why the conspiracists bother people so much when they had their own thread to post in. Prince was a public figure who died a death still somewhat mysterious -- just because most of us got over it doesn't mean the minority can't discuss it in detail regardless of how ridiculous they sound (as long as it doesn't break the normal org rules). The org is for ALL prince fans. And prince himself was arguably a conspiracy theorist so..
I guess you know me well, I dont like winter, but I seem to get a kick outta doing you cold
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Reply #15 posted 02/17/17 2:06pm

lwr001

CharismaDove said:

Whys it locked anyway? I don't see why the conspiracists bother people so much when they had their own thread to post in. Prince was a public figure who died a death still somewhat mysterious -- just because most of us got over it doesn't mean the minority can't discuss it in detail regardless of how ridiculous they sound (as long as it doesn't break the normal org rules). The org is for ALL prince fans. And prince himself was arguably a conspiracy theorist so..

chemtrails anyone....

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Reply #16 posted 02/17/17 2:12pm

lemoncrush19

avatar

lwr001 said:



lemoncrush19 said:


lwr001 said:




dont know ,,I have no answers,,maybe they read something i am unsure,,why would you be afraid of that ..maybe its a cautionary tale



yeahthat and no one here does. that's why someone seeking help could only read hearsay and guessing. not helpful! again: this is a community of prince fans. not an addiction center. that's why this is the wrong place for that topic.

who are you to say whats helpful...you have already taken this in a whole other level..you are the problem with threads like these



ok let's see ... I state that heersay and guessing wouldn't be helpful for someone really needing help but we all here on this board can't provide more since we ain't experts. u run out of counter-arguments (which u didn't have from the beginning as everyone can read) ... so u decide to change ur strategy into attacking ... now that's cool. u can't offend me but ... do u still believe this is the right place and environment to help people in life threatening situations?
the only love there is is the love we make heart
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Reply #17 posted 02/17/17 2:14pm

kingricefan

I know of two people who have already sought help after Prince's passing- Chaka Kahn and her sister. Both admitted themselves into rehab a short while after Prince died and both were addicted to the same med. I hope there have been others who have done the same. How can discussing the drugs not help someone? If it turns into another conspiracy thread then the mods can edit.lock it up, but it just might help someone here. You just don't know.....

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Reply #18 posted 02/17/17 2:19pm

NouveauDance

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

To talk about drugs is one thing. For fans to blather on about conspiracy theories and the melodrama should absolutely be shut da fuq down. Things I'm way over hearing about:

  • He knew he was going to die (we all know we're doing to die)
  • He was in so much pain he just gave up (in an elevator, really?)
  • He was murdered (if conspiracies were a knife, his fans would've offed him long ago)
  • Something isn't right (like those theories?)
  • "Saw a video, more tears, can't speak" (really, cuz ya just typed 7 words)
  • I just can't believe it (you can't see air, but do you believe you're not breathing it?, stop making it about self)

Fans should mourn, and grieve. It's a natural process. But so is acceptance. To wallow in that endlessly because it's too uncomfortable to operate in truth and reality is only a hindrance to the mourner. There is no honor in suffering. There's no glory in denial. I'd rather cry over something that is real, that something imagined. Tears never wash away the truth, they clarify it.


There's only clarity once focus is centered on the truth.

clapping

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Reply #19 posted 02/17/17 2:21pm

benni

I don't think this is the appropriate forum for it. If people want to discuss opoid usage, then it shouldn't be in the music forum. It's a good topic, but not appropriate for this forum. Also, as the anniversary draws near, family members may start visiting the forum and the last thing they need to see is the rampant speculation and conspiracy theories about drug usage. I can understand and respect wanting to wait until after the 21st.

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Reply #20 posted 02/17/17 2:24pm

disch

Here's the thing: You don't know if certain discussions can help someone. You also don't know if they could actually hurt someone. Cruel, judgmental language; derogatory terms for people struggling with addiction; and flat-out medically incorrect and sociologically incorrect info has been all over the place on these discussions there. I'd hate for someone suffering to feel worse about their situation.

kingricefan said:

I know of two people who have already sought help after Prince's passing- Chaka Kahn and her sister. Both admitted themselves into rehab a short while after Prince died and both were addicted to the same med. I hope there have been others who have done the same. How can discussing the drugs not help someone? If it turns into another conspiracy thread then the mods can edit.lock it up, but it just might help someone here. You just don't know.....

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Reply #21 posted 02/17/17 2:29pm

Kara

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kingricefan said:

I know of two people who have already sought help after Prince's passing- Chaka Kahn and her sister. Both admitted themselves into rehab a short while after Prince died and both were addicted to the same med. I hope there have been others who have done the same. How can discussing the drugs not help someone? If it turns into another conspiracy thread then the mods can edit.lock it up, but it just might help someone here. You just don't know.....


I had hoped that would be the case, but unfortunately, around here any talk of addiction devolves into moral/character judgments, people conjuring up the worst stereotypes, using pejoratives to describe people with addictions, etc. That's not constructive.

.
[Edited 2/17/17 14:31pm]
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Reply #22 posted 02/17/17 2:44pm

jayseajay

disch said:

Any discussion of actual addiction on this site -- separate from the various theories and fantasies that TrivialPursuit so accurately laid out -- had devolved into such laughable ignorance (not to mention puritanical judgmentalism and mean-spiritedness) that I don't think it would provide any help to someone struggling with these problems. Those in need should seek out medically accurate and compassionate support and I'm afraid they wouldn't find much of that here. (And mods feel free to lock this thread up per the rules.)

This. A hundred million times. I was shocked by the level of moralism exhibited in relation to addiction/dependency, and the knots people would tie themselves in to allow them to hold onto such moral judgements when confronted with what happened to P (Addicts are bad. P wasn't bad. Therefore P didn't die as the result of an addiction and it must have been (fill in the blank) instead). It really gave me insight into why he might have found it so difficult to admit to what was happening, and I don't think that kind of discussion would be of any help to someone else struggling with a similar situation.

Not like I love my guitar....
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Reply #23 posted 02/17/17 2:48pm

rogifan

lwr001 said:

is a bad idea IMHO..this topic and how if affected Prince and others can literally be the one topic on this board that saves someones life..I urge the MODS to reconsider



That is all


Why does it need to happen on this site? Aren't there lots of other places people can go if they need help re: drugs or addiction? All we get here are endless pages of rumors and conspiracy theories and people rehashing the same stuff over and over and over. Seems to me it's not productive or healthy.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #24 posted 02/17/17 2:55pm

rogifan

jayseajay said:



disch said:


Any discussion of actual addiction on this site -- separate from the various theories and fantasies that TrivialPursuit so accurately laid out -- had devolved into such laughable ignorance (not to mention puritanical judgmentalism and mean-spiritedness) that I don't think it would provide any help to someone struggling with these problems. Those in need should seek out medically accurate and compassionate support and I'm afraid they wouldn't find much of that here. (And mods feel free to lock this thread up per the rules.)



This. A hundred million times. I was shocked by the level of moralism exhibited in relation to addiction/dependency, and the knots people would tie themselves in to allow them to hold onto such moral judgements when confronted with what happened to P (Addicts are bad. P wasn't bad. Therefore P didn't die as the result of an addiction and it must have been (fill in the blank) instead). It really gave me insight into why he might have found it so difficult to admit to what was happening, and I don't think that kind of discussion would be of any help to someone else struggling with a similar situation.


Here's the thing: the only thing we know is what he died from. That is it. NOTHING else has been confirmed by family members or the police or those investigating his death. Too many state things as fact when we don't know if they're true or not. So until we actually have some facts to discuss - and not just people's theories - I have no problem keeping this a death and drug free site. If people really need that fix there are plenty of other places on the internet they can find it.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #25 posted 02/17/17 3:23pm

Kara

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jayseajay said:



disch said:


Any discussion of actual addiction on this site -- separate from the various theories and fantasies that TrivialPursuit so accurately laid out -- had devolved into such laughable ignorance (not to mention puritanical judgmentalism and mean-spiritedness) that I don't think it would provide any help to someone struggling with these problems. Those in need should seek out medically accurate and compassionate support and I'm afraid they wouldn't find much of that here. (And mods feel free to lock this thread up per the rules.)



This. A hundred million times. I was shocked by the level of moralism exhibited in relation to addiction/dependency, and the knots people would tie themselves in to allow them to hold onto such moral judgements when confronted with what happened to P (Addicts are bad. P wasn't bad. Therefore P didn't die as the result of an addiction and it must have been (fill in the blank) instead). It really gave me insight into why he might have found it so difficult to admit to what was happening, and I don't think that kind of discussion would be of any help to someone else struggling with a similar situation.


It's disheartening to see how many people are hard-wired to see addiction as a moral issue instead of a medical one, and are helping to maintain the stigma instead of erasing it. I urge people to please research opioids and the disease process of addiction with an open mind.
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Reply #26 posted 02/17/17 3:55pm

XxAxX

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CharismaDove said:

Whys it locked anyway? I don't see why the conspiracists bother people so much when they had their own thread to post in. Prince was a public figure who died a death still somewhat mysterious -- just because most of us got over it doesn't mean the minority can't discuss it in detail regardless of how ridiculous they sound (as long as it doesn't break the normal org rules). The org is for ALL prince fans. And prince himself was arguably a conspiracy theorist so..


biggrin i agree with you, CharismaDove, however this is the ORG. lol

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Reply #27 posted 02/17/17 4:36pm

GTsymbolover

To shy away from the drugs conversation is like discussing only 34/39 albums. Good, bad or indifferent Prince was human and as such was effected by drugs, he was not perfect, none of us are. To that end if folks want to discuss it, go right ahead in my book, it was a part of his story. Furthermore if it helps a member of the community then all the better, I guarantee there will be members here using, to believe the community is made up of "just prince fans" is naive and doesn't capture the essence of love and life Prince was an advocate of.
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Reply #28 posted 02/17/17 4:41pm

benni

rogifan said:

jayseajay said:

This. A hundred million times. I was shocked by the level of moralism exhibited in relation to addiction/dependency, and the knots people would tie themselves in to allow them to hold onto such moral judgements when confronted with what happened to P (Addicts are bad. P wasn't bad. Therefore P didn't die as the result of an addiction and it must have been (fill in the blank) instead). It really gave me insight into why he might have found it so difficult to admit to what was happening, and I don't think that kind of discussion would be of any help to someone else struggling with a similar situation.

Here's the thing: the only thing we know is what he died from. That is it. NOTHING else has been confirmed by family members or the police or those investigating his death. Too many state things as fact when we don't know if they're true or not. So until we actually have some facts to discuss - and not just people's theories - I have no problem keeping this a death and drug free site. If people really need that fix there are plenty of other places on the internet they can find it.


Exactly. The threads do end up spiraling down into rumors, speculations, conspiracies. That's why I said this is not the appropriate forum for those discussions. In order to discuss it on this forum, it would need to somehow involve Prince. This doesn't help others. If people are serious about discussing opoid use, then take it to general forum or P&R. Otherwise, if it is on this forum, it's not about education and helping others, it's about speculation and rumor in regards to Prince. That doesn't help any one.

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Reply #29 posted 02/17/17 5:22pm

bonatoc

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Limiting such discussion to the org would be a shame.
Judging by how hard it affects the U.S. population,
discussing about "role models" can help people struggling.
If even Superman is a junkie, it kinda means you can be Superman too.

I can understand some orgers saying this is not the place, because it's trading a very few that might find a sparkle to begin desintoxication because of what it can do to the strongest of us, for a lot of unrelated, paranoid or lunatic remarks. Prince deserves way better.

It doesn't define the man he was. It's not like Prince was out beating women and steal from ladies purses.
He can't even be brought to light as an addict, in a medical warning way.
The guy was sweetness incarnate by the end.
How can you even relate to Prince if you suffer from an addiction?
So maybe the org isn't the best place, a medical forum is probably better.
They're probably eager to discuss the mental strength of Prince,
or what he was REALLY on.

I'm sure Prince was high way before a chemical ever touched his lips.
So to me, they were just physical pain-killers.
His mind and earth were bright and very much at peace.
I doubt addicts in need of help have the same relation with drugs.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Goodness will guide us if love is inside us
The colors are brighter, the bond is much tighter
You know no child's a failure
Until the blue sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't ever lose, don't ever lose, Don't ever lose your dreams
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