NinaB said:

babynoz said:

Exactly.

The thing that is so hypocritical about the ageist and sexist bigots on the org is that not a single one of them has ever criticized Prince for actually writing and performing in a sexually provocative way....not one.

But somehow it's okay to label anyone who discusses those things middle aged, stupid, etc......

In other words, it wasn't wrong for him to do it, its just wrong to talk about it?

Like I said, my super power is the ability to detect BS a mile away.

...and a very high percentage of fans ARE middle aged, I don't see anyone calling the male's 'middle aged househusbands' tho. Funny that.

Yeah, it is funny. One of them actually got in such a tizzy that he made a whiny thread in site discussion and deleted his account. Good riddance.

babynoz said:

vainandy said:

I agree that an upgrade is needed because the org just ate my last reply. The software or interface or whatever is outdated and does not function properly. The day Prince passed just like every other major event cause the org to go down. Coming here can be an ordeal but there is still no place on Earth where so many other people understand the impact of losing Prince. If not for the org most of our families and friends would be sick of us by now.

Those who are whining excessively about topics they don't care for are free to skip them or delete their account. Just like real life, not everything will be to your liking. It's perfectly fine to say you don't like something, but it does not give you the right to regulate what other people can discuss as long as it's not against the rules.

It is patently unfair to hold new members exclusively accountable for the extreme level of morbid curiousity that is ongoing since 4/21. I have seen many longtime members start dozens of redundant threads, repeatedly trying to force their version of what led to Prince's demise down our throats and lash out at the members who don't take their opinion as holy writ.

The only thing that I found to be very irksome was the tendency for people to start new threads without checking the stickies or seeing if a thread has already been started about the same topic. At one point the forum was so cluttered that is was barely readable. So many people seemed to want their own personal thread and that's just not feasable.

At least most of our new members are not as jaded and cynical, so the number of threads spewing venom, personal insults and outright hatred toward Prince are much fewer than before.

Hatred shown toward Prince's family is the only thing that I think is inappropriate. Those kinds of attacks are against the rules, IIRC.

NinaB said:

babynoz said:

Yeah, it is funny. One of them actually got in such a tizzy that he made a whiny thread in site discussion and deleted his account. Good riddance.

Slightly melodramatic Yeah, good riddance.

I know, right? Boo-fucking-hoo.

I don't know....

If anything, the people that have been on here the longest should make a bit more of an effort to welcome new people (long-term orgers need to remember they were newbies to start with and knew nothing about Prince at the beginning) and make the website friendlier rather than turn it into a hostile discussion over whose got the oldest joining date and how silly those loving newbies are/look/sound and how much better than them the long-term orgers think they are. Anyone who would take time to listen to Prince's songs (not just the sound but the lyrics also) would notice that this is precisely what Prince was NOT about. He also used hearts and emoticons in his handwritten notes before they were even invented. He loved to spread loving words to those he loved and people loved it when he did. If you don't believe me, check out this thread http://prince.org/msg/7/428341

At the end of the day Prince was Prince, and the orger's definition of what a "good" fan is will not change that. I don't even care about being a fan, I just love what Prince did and who he was, never worshipped him, just loved the man deeply because he was a great person and inspiring artist. I was lucky enough to be invited onstage and meet him in the flesh, so what? I just think all this kind of debate talks more about the territorial, divisive (and jealous perhaps?) mentality of some of the people on here than the actual reason why this website was created in the first place (ie. Prince).

love y'all

babynoz said:

SquirrelMeat said:

It's not as much fun as it was, for two reasons really.

Firstly, and the obvious one, there is no "now" to discuss. I've always been a fan of the new output and shows, and to me now is not about playing amateur detective / medical examiner / tabloid writer about Prince's death. I have more respect for him than that.

Secondly, the org dynamics have obviously changed dramatically since April.

I love it that newbies get into Prince, but there are different types of newbies. There are ones who are hungry for knowledge on Prince and his music and they are respectful of a long standing and extremely knowledgeable community. On the flip side there are ones who just chuck thread after thread up of stupid topics or fake idolisation.

But I think the real problem is under the skin of some of the new and older accounts that have been inactive for a while. The 'Crazies'

For those that have been here through the years, the biggest threat to this site cohesion was over a decade ago when the NPG site closed down. The NPG forum was like a worshipping cult. When it shut down, they flooded onto the org.

The very people that kept proclaiming "Love4oneanother" spent most of their time writing threads trying to tell everyone how they should behave, what it means to be a "real fam" and thread after thread of idolisation, be it pictures or comments.

Eventually most ran for the hills, but its quite clear quite a few came back for somewhere to preach post April 21st.

I've seem more use of the term "Fam" (which is the big giveaway) and 'Love4oneanother" in the last 3 months than I did for the whole of the last decade.

The problem isn't just here. Facebook threads are being ruined by people constantly posting pictures and hearts every minute.

We've pretty much always seen eye to eye, and I agree with every single part of this post.

CherryMoon, I think you took my post the wrong way. Like Squirrel says, there's two types of people, and unfortunately post-death signups, in my own experience, have been primarily the problematic kind, and not the good, contributing kind like yourself.

People who had been fans for a while but only joined this particular site (or used to be members but left and came back) post 4/21 aren't the people I was referring to in my original post.

[Edited 9/15/16 14:00pm]

Genesia said:

Not as much as I did. There's no future - no sense of "what will he do next"?

A lot of stuff got rehashed before he was gone, of course - but now that's all there is. We're all just chasing our tails. There will be nothing new.

A big part of org enjoyment for me was the thought of Prince being around to share things with us and be a part of our experiences. I loved the thought of him just being in the world doing stuff, so from now on coming to the org will be tinged with sadness most of the time.

If it wasn't for the few heartwarming stories and funny threads about him I probably wouldn't bother to visit much anymore.

NorthC said:

babynoz said:

NinaB said:

babynoz said:

Yeah, it is funny. One of them actually got in such a tizzy that he made a whiny thread in site discussion and deleted his account. Good riddance.

Slightly melodramatic Yeah, good riddance.

I know, right? Boo-fucking-hoo.

So all these nonsense threads about Prince's perfume, his sex life etc are chasing people away?! Yeah, that's something to be proud of, ladies.

Militant said:

"...people who signed up AFTER April 21st...not saying that there's not a place for new fans..."

Please explain to me, how is it that even though I...

• ...bought Prince's second, third and fourth albums days after they were first released...
• ...bought The Time's and Vanity 6's albums days after they were first released...
• ...saw the Dirty Mind, Controversy and 1999/Vanity 6 concerts live...
• ...learned to play several of Prince and Time songs note for note and performed them in cover bands in front of live audiences...
• ...had a live-in girlfriend in my college days who looked like Prince's long-lost twin sister...
• ...lived dozens of other Prince-related experiences before the majority of people here were even born...

...yet the only way I'm "allowed" to be considered "A Long-time Prince Fan", is if I submit a username and password to some exclusivist site before some arbitrary cut-off date of your choosing?

I guess you also think that if you ban people from this site, then automatically from that date forward they're no longer Prince fans — by your decree.

How narrow-minded is that?

[Edited 9/15/16 14:22pm]

Militant said:

SquirrelMeat said:

It's not as much fun as it was, for two reasons really.

Firstly, and the obvious one, there is no "now" to discuss. I've always been a fan of the new output and shows, and to me now is not about playing amateur detective / medical examiner / tabloid writer about Prince's death. I have more respect for him than that.

Secondly, the org dynamics have obviously changed dramatically since April.

I love it that newbies get into Prince, but there are different types of newbies. There are ones who are hungry for knowledge on Prince and his music and they are respectful of a long standing and extremely knowledgeable community. On the flip side there are ones who just chuck thread after thread up of stupid topics or fake idolisation.

But I think the real problem is under the skin of some of the new and older accounts that have been inactive for a while. The 'Crazies'

For those that have been here through the years, the biggest threat to this site cohesion was over a decade ago when the NPG site closed down. The NPG forum was like a worshipping cult. When it shut down, they flooded onto the org.

The very people that kept proclaiming "Love4oneanother" spent most of their time writing threads trying to tell everyone how they should behave, what it means to be a "real fam" and thread after thread of idolisation, be it pictures or comments.

Eventually most ran for the hills, but its quite clear quite a few came back for somewhere to preach post April 21st.

I've seem more use of the term "Fam" (which is the big giveaway) and 'Love4oneanother" in the last 3 months than I did for the whole of the last decade.

The problem isn't just here. Facebook threads are being ruined by people constantly posting pictures and hearts every minute.

We've pretty much always seen eye to eye, and I agree with every single part of this post.

CherryMoon, I think you took my post the wrong way. Like Squirrel says, there's two types of people, and unfortunately post-death signups, in my own experience, have been primarily the problematic kind, and not the good, contributing kind like yourself.

People who had been fans for a while but only joined this particular site (or used to be members but left and came back) post 4/21 aren't the people I was referring to in my original post.

[Edited 9/15/16 14:00pm]

I'm glad to hear it Militant, and I knew you did, yet the way some of these things were said sounded a little harsh and generalising. At this point I think a hug emoticon would be in order, but apparently that's a silly thing only newbies do so I will refrain. I was now also going to insert a wink emoticon at the end of this but I don't want to exacerbate SquirrelMeat, so I won't.

NorthC said:

babynoz said:

I know, right? Boo-fucking-hoo.

So all these nonsense threads about Prince's perfume, his sex life etc are chasing people away?! Yeah, that's something to be proud of, ladies.

It is not a matter of being proud. None of us ladies wrote those songs or performed in that manner in those costumes.....that was Prince Rogers Nelson. If you are soooo brilliant then why do you need that explained to you?


It is simply a matter of what is allowed and what is not allowed. That is what you agreed to when you joined, period, end of story. You are neither a moderator or the site owner so your only recourse is to whine, butt out or start a thread that you deem worthy of your high minded sensibilities.

FYI all of the comments from the past that were posted by Robin, Artpal, Bassdame, and others from the Prince camp are still there if you do a search. Those comments were never snipped and those threads have not been deleted to this day, so if you want to bitch about that, take it up with org management if you don't like it.

Like I said, I can smell a hypocrite a mile away. Where were your criticisms of Prince when he was writing and performing provocative, sexually explicit material??? Was that something for him to be proud of in your opinion? If you had no problem with it then, you have no moral high ground from which to spew judgement and faux outrage now.....period.

I simply despise hypocrites.

NinaB said:

NorthC said:

So all these nonsense threads about Prince's perfume, his sex life etc are chasing people away?! Yeah, that's something to be proud of, ladies.

Once again u got it twisted. So knock yourself out with all that mate. I can't be bothered. You do not know me.

It's just like men who beat women. Cowards and bullies go after people they think are weak, but he got the right ones this time.

babynoz said:

phatphuk said:

Militant said:

"...people who signed up AFTER April 21st...not saying that there's not a place for new fans..."

Please explain to me, how is it that even though I...

• ...bought Prince's second, third and fourth albums days after they were first released...
• ...bought The Time's and Vanity 6's albums days after they were first released...
• ...saw the Dirty Mind, Controversy and 1999/Vanity 6 concerts live...
• ...learned to play several of Prince and Time songs note for note and performed them in cover bands in front of live audiences...
• ...had a live-in girlfriend in my college days who looked like Prince's long-lost twin sister...
• ...lived dozens of other Prince-related experiences before the majority of people here were even born...

...yet the only way I'm "allowed" to be considered "A Long-time Prince Fan", is if I submit a username and password to some exclusivist site before some arbitrary cut-off date of your choosing?

I guess you also think that if you ban people from this site, then automatically from that date foreward they're no longer Prince fans — by your decree.

How narrow-minded is that?

[Edited 9/15/16 14:20pm]

I really hope that isn't what he meant.

I have often reminded the members here that the org is not the be all and end all of fandom just like I keep reminding people that orgers are probably no more than a small percentage of his total fanbase anyway.

There's a lot of folks here who have an overblown, exaggerated view of their own opinion as though it is fact and they think it qualifies them to sit in judgement or establish some kind of fucked up pecking order.

In defense of Militant, he was never that type of person in the past and he can correct me if I'm wrong but I think the impact of Prince leaving us the way he did has left him a little more raw than before.

NinaB said:

babynoz said:

It's just like men who beat women. Cowards and bullies go after people they think are weak, but he got the right ones this time.

...Or the wrong ones I can't even be bothered wasting breath on that shite anymore tbh babynoz

Sorry you feel the way you do about the recent changes you have seen on the org. I agree with you to a certain extent about your comments on some of the topics but find it disheartening that a moderator has such a narrow minded view of new members who signed up after April 21st.

Like a lot people here I am new to the org as a signed up member but I'm not new to Prince and can trace my love for him and his music back to the early 80's which is probably before you were born. I don't believe that a sign up date is an indication of how long someone has been a Prince fan or an indication of someone's level of devotion to the man. As I have previously said in other threads, I lurked on and off this board for years reading posts, but I never wanted to join due to the level of negativity expressed about Prince from some of the "long term fans" that you mention in your post and also I never felt the need to belong to an online community to be a fan of the man.

Anyway when we were hit with the bombshell news of Prince's passing I was completely devastated and came to the org to grieve with like minded individuals and also celebrate the man and his music. No one in my family and social circle, share my love of Prince or understands how I feel but other orgers do. Five months later I'm still here and will be here for the long haul. I'm looking forward to meeting and engaging with people from around the world, discussing the man and his music and learning more each day. Nothing never stays the same but I hope that in time you will feel more positive about the contribution that new members bring to the org .

Militant said:

Right now it's a little weird to me - and I'll say this openly - to sometimes see entire discussions being dominated by people who signed up AFTER April 21st.

I understand that's it's par for the course, and I think a lot of these people will likely move on over time. But prior to April 21st, the community felt very tight and safe, and his passing has hit us like an atom bomb and scattered our sense of self as long term fans.

I'm absolutely not saying that there's not a place for new fans - there is and always will be. But prior to his passing, anyone who had been here for a few years, we were here when what he was doing wasn't newsworthy, when the public weren't checking for him, when he really needed us to be there.

And I could relate to damn near everyone. Because I can relate to anyone that at some point discovered Prince's music and fell in love - that's all of our stories.

What I can't relate to is people that only decided to become fans because he died and his death was mysterious and in the news all the time - and then they come here and barely talk about his music but only about his passing. I just..... I don't get that. The music is not secondary to anything. If that's your perspective then you missed his entire message.

It's different. Prince kept us on our toes in more ways than one! But the org will always be home.

CherryMoon57 said:

Militant said:

We've pretty much always seen eye to eye, and I agree with every single part of this post.

CherryMoon, I think you took my post the wrong way. Like Squirrel says, there's two types of people, and unfortunately post-death signups, in my own experience, have been primarily the problematic kind, and not the good, contributing kind like yourself.

People who had been fans for a while but only joined this particular site (or used to be members but left and came back) post 4/21 aren't the people I was referring to in my original post.

[Edited 9/15/16 14:00pm]

I'm glad to hear it Militant, and I knew you did, yet the way some of these things were said sounded a little harsh and generalising. At this point I think a hug emoticon would be in order, but apparently that's a silly thing only newbies do so I will refrain. I was now also going to insert a wink emoticon at the end of this but I don't want to exacerbate SquirrelMeat, so I won't.

babynoz said:

phatphuk and Starrdust505, please see my previous reply/clarification to CherryMoon57. There's really no need for members such as yourselves to be getting defensive - I was not aiming that comment at you, nor anyone that has been a fan for a long time but wasn't a member of this website. Just the people that were 100% not fans before April 21st and have been flooding the site with nonsense about his passing whilst not saying a word about his actual music.

babynoz said:

I really hope that isn't what he meant.

I have often reminded the members here that the org is not the be all and end all of fandom just like I keep reminding people that orgers are probably no more than a small percentage of his total fanbase anyway.

There's a lot of folks here who have an overblown, exaggerated view of their own opinion as though it is fact and they think it qualifies them to sit in judgement or establish some kind of fucked up pecking order.

In defense of Militant, he was never that type of person in the past and he can correct me if I'm wrong but I think the impact of Prince leaving us the way he did has left him a little more raw than before.

Thank you babynoz

[Edited 9/15/16 14:56pm]

NorthC said:

babynoz said:

Right. So saying a certain thread on a website is nonsense equals beating women? The two of you are going more with every post you make. But... You're still part of the club. What would the org be without the weirdos?!

What it equals is bullying simply because you have a choice to participate or not. What you cannot chose is what the site owner and moderators allow, so cry me a river. I've read a few of your comments in other org forums so I already know what kind of a narrow minded bigot you are anyway.

Militant said:

phatphuk and Starrdust505, please see my previous reply/clarification to CherryMoon57. There's really no need for members such as yourselves to be getting defensive - I was not aiming that comment at you, nor anyone that has been a fan for a long time but wasn't a member of this website. Just the people that were 100% not fans before April 21st and have been flooding the site with nonsense about his passing whilst not saying a word about his actual music.

babynoz said:

I really hope that isn't what he meant.

I have often reminded the members here that the org is not the be all and end all of fandom just like I keep reminding people that orgers are probably no more than a small percentage of his total fanbase anyway.

There's a lot of folks here who have an overblown, exaggerated view of their own opinion as though it is fact and they think it qualifies them to sit in judgement or establish some kind of fucked up pecking order.

In defense of Militant, he was never that type of person in the past and he can correct me if I'm wrong but I think the impact of Prince leaving us the way he did has left him a little more raw than before.

Thank you babynoz

[Edited 9/15/16 14:56pm]

Militant said:

"...There's really no need for members such as yourselves to be getting defensive..."

More than once in the past week, some of your "fams" have made offensive, narrow-minded remarks to me about my recent join date.

So, mostly my earlier "defensiveness" is more a reaction to them and to any other "fams" who think like them.

If you don't think like them, then it's not directed at you.

Ok thanks for clarifying your comments Militant.

[Edited 9/15/16 15:21pm]

SquirrelMeat said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I'm glad to hear it Militant, and I knew you did, yet the way some of these things were said sounded a little harsh and generalising. At this point I think a hug emoticon would be in order, but apparently that's a silly thing only newbies do so I will refrain. I was now also going to insert a wink emoticon at the end of this but I don't want to exacerbate SquirrelMeat, so I won't.

Aww ok then

[Edited 9/15/16 15:56pm]

phatphuk said:

Post-April-21 orger here!

-

I hear what you're saying, Militant -- I imagine that it's really weird to have spent a lot of time helping to build this community only to see it perhaps drift in different directions than it was before.

-

I don't know where I fall on the "good new orger" or "bad new orger" dichotomy you describe -- I'm probably on the bad side, as I've posted more about P's death than about his music (I have commented here and there about his music -- although contributing to any online conversation doesn't always come so naturally to me -- and I won't take too much space explaining my relationship to P's music, but suffice to say I've drowned myself in it post-April-21 with an extra intensity that has really started to annoy my IRL friends).

-

But since he died, his death has really, really interested me, and in my view, there are provocative issues it illuminates (about personas, about fame, about identity). I would actually love have a place to discuss those things in a really thoughtful way, but perhaps the org isn't the right place for those conversations, which I'm cool with.

-

What I would suggest is that just because a new orger has commented mostly about certain topics so far -- whether it's painkillers or Prince's butt or whatever -- that doesn't mean that's ALL they'll ever contribute about here. This has been a weird time for fans, and things are changing for all of us.

-

(and PS -- and this isn't aimed at you Militant: What's wrong with talking about Prince's visual presentation -- clothes, hair, body movements, etc. -- anyway? Clearly, based on the obvious attention he gave them, those were a pretty important part of his whole public identity)

Militant said:

SquirrelMeat said:

It's not as much fun as it was, for two reasons really.

Firstly, and the obvious one, there is no "now" to discuss. I've always been a fan of the new output and shows, and to me now is not about playing amateur detective / medical examiner / tabloid writer about Prince's death. I have more respect for him than that.

Secondly, the org dynamics have obviously changed dramatically since April.

I love it that newbies get into Prince, but there are different types of newbies. There are ones who are hungry for knowledge on Prince and his music and they are respectful of a long standing and extremely knowledgeable community. On the flip side there are ones who just chuck thread after thread up of stupid topics or fake idolisation.

But I think the real problem is under the skin of some of the new and older accounts that have been inactive for a while. The 'Crazies'

For those that have been here through the years, the biggest threat to this site cohesion was over a decade ago when the NPG site closed down. The NPG forum was like a worshipping cult. When it shut down, they flooded onto the org.

The very people that kept proclaiming "Love4oneanother" spent most of their time writing threads trying to tell everyone how they should behave, what it means to be a "real fam" and thread after thread of idolisation, be it pictures or comments.

Eventually most ran for the hills, but its quite clear quite a few came back for somewhere to preach post April 21st.

I've seem more use of the term "Fam" (which is the big giveaway) and 'Love4oneanother" in the last 3 months than I did for the whole of the last decade.

The problem isn't just here. Facebook threads are being ruined by people constantly posting pictures and hearts every minute.

We've pretty much always seen eye to eye, and I agree with every single part of this post.

CherryMoon, I think you took my post the wrong way. Like Squirrel says, there's two types of people, and unfortunately post-death signups, in my own experience, have been primarily the problematic kind, and not the good, contributing kind like yourself.

People who had been fans for a while but only joined this particular site (or used to be members but left and came back) post 4/21 aren't the people I was referring to in my original post.

[Edited 9/15/16 14:00pm]

[Edited 9/15/16 15:59pm]

Militant said:

Right now it's a little weird to me - and I'll say this openly - to sometimes see entire discussions being dominated by people who signed up AFTER April 21st.

I understand that's it's par for the course, and I think a lot of these people will likely move on over time. But prior to April 21st, the community felt very tight and safe, and his passing has hit us like an atom bomb and scattered our sense of self as long term fans.

I'm absolutely not saying that there's not a place for new fans - there is and always will be. But prior to his passing, anyone who had been here for a few years, we were here when what he was doing wasn't newsworthy, when the public weren't checking for him, when he really needed us to be there.

And I could relate to damn near everyone. Because I can relate to anyone that at some point discovered Prince's music and fell in love - that's all of our stories.

What I can't relate to is people that only decided to become fans because he died and his death was mysterious and in the news all the time - and then they come here and barely talk about his music but only about his passing. I just..... I don't get that. The music is not secondary to anything. If that's your perspective then you missed his entire message.

It's different. Prince kept us on our toes in more ways than one! But the org will always be home.

I get your pain militant. I am very new to the org, but have also been checking in on it since the late 90's . I didn't become a fan because he died and he was in the news. P was a bit like a lifelong friend. He seems to have always been in my life. I have always been really happy for him when things have been going well and my stomach has lurched at every misfortune. I have felt that for no other person I have not known personally. Yes, the music is special, it brought me to P and it brought us all here, but in my mind it is secondary to the person. I'd happily never listen to or watch any of his work ever again if it could bring him back in good health and state of mind (and it is the only music I can listen to since he died - I've tried to reintroduce others and it failed). I struggle to understand the 'looking forward to some gems from the vault is really cheering me up' statements, but I'm not judging. It might be nice for me to hear some music from the vault, but it will be no consolation. I really want to see him enjoying the music now.

.

People deal with deaths differently. Some need to talk and some can't bear to. Some only want to remember the good times and others like to (lovingly) review all the quirks that made them unique. Some want to find the reason why he had to die, some can't bear to even think about it. Even in a room full of people mourning, you can wonder if anyone feels the same as you. I have been there enough times. I first became teetotal as a teen due to my disgust at people around me drinking at a funeral (yes, I know, I was a bit judgemental back then - a teenagers prerogative before the complexity of life hits them - I was actually fuming, and no-one was even drunk - I guess I was really just angry that she had to die).

.

I don't know why other new people are here, and I could be wrong, but I don't think his death would hold much interest for anyone who doesn't care about him. At least in my family (with a husband whose only memory of Purple Rain were the shots of the bike - those scenes he could describe in detail 30 years later), more than a 20 second soudbite every few weeks is pushing it. And he likes quite a bit of the music and says he feels really sad that he died - just not that sad.

.