XxAxX said:

treehouse said:

You mean the one where you're chastising people for going "off topic" and refusing to discuss

a post from a Neo-Nazi, hate site, written by a Stormfront radio guest?

Seriously?

Where does that fall in the need for more moderators category?????

The irony is Babynoz isn't troubled by that, and is instead posting essays about internet trolls, and using it as an opportunity for ad homs, because again....we don't want to discuss a Neo Nazi's ramblings.

Yeah, it puts this thread into context.

[Edited 1/23/15 6:42am]

no, let me spell this out for you: you are derailing the thread because you object to ONE link that was posted, which was been deleted.

and instead of actually reading the OTHER links posted, and discussing the topic - which topic is disinformation by the way, and not how 'treehouse' takes offense at links it doesn't approve of - instead of staying on topic you have been ranting about that particular link for several pages.

stop whining about the link, and get your head into the discussion of the actual topic

The link was deleted but the text and thread remain. Text written by a Neo Nazi.
It's not the link or the website it's the author.

Is it just me who opposes bigoted hate speech? Really? Are you cool with Neo Nazis?

Golly gee, It's almost like you want to bait until the P & R forum gets shut down or something?

treehouse said:

XxAxX said:

no, let me spell this out for you: you are derailing the thread because you object to ONE link that was posted, which was been deleted.

and instead of actually reading the OTHER links posted, and discussing the topic - which topic is disinformation by the way, and not how 'treehouse' takes offense at links it doesn't approve of - instead of staying on topic you have been ranting about that particular link for several pages.

stop whining about the link, and get your head into the discussion of the actual topic

The link was deleted but the text and thread remain. Text written by a Neo Nazi.
It's not the link or the website it's the author.

Is it just me who opposes bigoted hate speech? Really? Are you cool with Neo Nazis?

Golly gee, It's almost like you want to bait until the P & R forum gets shut down or something?

no, stop trying to switch it up.

i've been staying on topic, you have not.

i've been reading the articles presented on the thread and commenting on them, you have not.

but enough, i have a life to live, and don't intend to waste any further time/energy on you

XxAxX said:

i've been reading the articles presented on the thread and commenting on them, you have not.

My comment on the articles was to point out that Neo Nazi hate militia racism is against the forum rules. Why are you supporting it?

treehouse said:

XxAxX said:

i've been reading the articles presented on the thread and commenting on them, you have not.

My comment on the articles was to point out that Neo Nazi hate militia racism is against the forum rules. Why are you supporting it?

I think you're giving Graycap way, way too much credit. My experience is that he never, ever checks his sources for crediblity. I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that he had no idea who Texe Marrs is. All he saw was "Disinformation" and that was like ringing a bell to a Pavlovian dog.

RodeoSchro said:

I think you're giving Graycap way, way too much credit. My experience is that he never, ever checks his sources for crediblity. I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that he had no idea who Texe Marrs is. All he saw was "Disinformation" and that was like ringing a bell to a Pavlovian dog.

It's the doubling down from others looking the other way, and desire to turn it into a thread attacking forum members that I can't write off as a mistake.

Why am I taking heat for exposing the supremacist site as a source? If that's "disruptive" and I get banned for that, so be it.

babynoz said:

Until such time as there are enough active moderators to allow someone to moderate P&R full time....it cannot be done effectively on a part time basis.

As I have said before, there are only four active mods even though several more are listed. This is not a criticism of those people by any means, because they cannot be everywhere. They have too much on their plate.

Given the contentious nature of that forum and the absence of restraint at times, it has turned into a free-for-all where people no longer debate ideas in a rational, truthful manner.

Most threads in P&R do not stay on topic past the first three or four replies and there are threads there now that have nothing to do with politics or religion....they are just regular news items.

Absolutely nothing wrong with a heated debate but when it turns into bullying, lying, trolling, and baiting just to grandstand for attention, there's no way a decent discussion can take place.

Mach was the last person who was able to be present enough to effectively moderate that forum and my suggestion is that until someone else is able to commit the same amount of time, it should be shut down.

My two cents.

100% agree.

Graycap23 said:

babynoz said:

Until such time as there are enough active moderators to allow someone to moderate P&R full time....it cannot be done effectively on a part time basis.

As I have said before, there are only four active mods even though several more are listed. This is not a criticism of those people by any means, because they cannot be everywhere. They have too much on their plate.

Given the contentious nature of that forum and the absence of restraint at times, it has turned into a free-for-all where people no longer debate ideas in a rational, truthful manner.

Most threads in P&R do not stay on topic past the first three or four replies and there are threads there now that have nothing to do with politics or religion....they are just regular news items.

Absolutely nothing wrong with a heated debate but when it turns into bullying, lying, trolling, and baiting just to grandstand for attention, there's no way a decent discussion can take place.

Mach was the last person who was able to be present enough to effectively moderate that forum and my suggestion is that until someone else is able to commit the same amount of time, it should be shut down.

My two cents.

100% agree.

The surest way to get moderation is to report posts. So I think I will take babynoz at her word and report every post that violates the rules. Specifically, this one:

One last thing: PLEASE do not copy articles verbatim from other sites or post videos without comment! If you want to quote something, or post a video, fine... say where it comes from, provide a link, and also provide ANALYSIS and INSIGHT of your own. We're here to discuss and debate ideas we actually hold. So make your opinion clear, and remember to do so with civility.

And yes Graycap, this is going to apply mainly to you.

RodeoSchro said:

Graycap23 said:

100% agree.

The surest way to get moderation is to report posts. So I think I will take babynoz at her word and report every post that violates the rules. Specifically, this one:

One last thing: PLEASE do not copy articles verbatim from other sites or post videos without comment! If you want to quote something, or post a video, fine... say where it comes from, provide a link, and also provide ANALYSIS and INSIGHT of your own. We're here to discuss and debate ideas we actually hold. So make your opinion clear, and remember to do so with civility.

And yes Graycap, this is going to apply mainly to you.

Graycap23 said:

RodeoSchro said:

The surest way to get moderation is to report posts. So I think I will take babynoz at her word and report every post that violates the rules. Specifically, this one:

One last thing: PLEASE do not copy articles verbatim from other sites or post videos without comment! If you want to quote something, or post a video, fine... say where it comes from, provide a link, and also provide ANALYSIS and INSIGHT of your own. We're here to discuss and debate ideas we actually hold. So make your opinion clear, and remember to do so with civility.

And yes Graycap, this is going to apply mainly to you.

Follow the rules and you have nothing to worry about.

RodeoSchro said:

Graycap23 said:

Follow the rules and you have nothing to worry about.

[Flame snip - luv4u]

Graycap23 said:

RodeoSchro said:

Follow the rules and you have nothing to worry about.

[Flame snip - luv4u]

LOL, that's your response to the site's rules? I don't see a long future here for you but I could be wrong.

RodeoSchro said:

Graycap23 said:

[Flame snip - luv4u]

LOL, that's your response to the site's rules? I don't see a long future here for you but I could be wrong.

[Flame snip - luv4u]

Graycap23 said:

RodeoSchro said:

LOL, that's your response to the site's rules? I don't see a long future here for you but I could be wrong.

[Flame snip - luv4u]

[Flame snip - luv4u]

Maybe you aren't as good a troll as I thought.

RodeoSchro said:

Graycap23 said:

[Flame snip - luv4u]

[Flame snip - luv4u]

Maybe you aren't as good a troll as I thought.

Graycap23 said:

RodeoSchro said:

[Flame snip - luv4u]

Maybe you aren't as good a troll as I thought.

Did you know that most of the rules you violate in P&R extend to ALL the other forums? Including this one?

You do now!

Rules of the Discussion Forums

The following rules apply to posts in all prince.org discussion forums, including the content of "signatures" and avatars:

Note that these rules are in addition to the terms of service you agreed to upon registering. Final say and interpretation of these rules for specific instances rests with the Moderators.

• Be civilized
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The prince.org discussion forums are moderated by a group of volunteers who have to make difficult decisions, read a lot of messages they aren't necessarily interested in, and deal with complaints, on a daily basis. The Moderators are not babysitters. If your actions make the Moderators' job more difficult, it hurts the community. Participating in this site is a privilege, not a right—and everyone's cooperation and adherence to the aboverules is an absolute necessity. If you encounter users/messages violating these rules, please report it to the moderators.

http://prince.org/msg/rules.html

Oh wow


Be civil please

I think the whole Org needs a complete makeover. The moderation needs a rethink as does the setup in terms of seperate forums. P&R needs splitting with politics becoming seperate to religion. Prince Music & More needs seperating into Prince Music and Prince Other. The rules need revising too. Bart suggested a model similar to stackoverflow which I think is a good idea. It will help keep the trolls at bay by giving them less influence in how the site evolves. Its a simple concept: Anyone can post a topic, anyone can respond to a topic. The best responses get upvoted and rise to the top. The site then pretty much moderates itself with the majority viewpoint taking centre stage. If the majority viewpoint is sycophantic then so be it. If the majority viewpoint is right-wing, then so be it. But I dont think it will pan out that way. I think the majority viewpoint will be balanced and informative.

Anyway, I dont think anyone is really interested in redeveloping the site and there seems to be even less interest in redefining its "constitution". Too much fear from the Prince police and too many moderators gone stale or lost perspective.

Rebeljuice said:

I think the whole Org needs a complete makeover. The moderation needs a rethink as does the setup in terms of seperate forums. P&R needs splitting with politics becoming seperate to religion. Prince Music & More needs seperating into Prince Music and Prince Other. The rules need revising too. Bart suggested a model similar to stackoverflow which I think is a good idea. It will help keep the trolls at bay by giving them less influence in how the site evolves. Its a simple concept: Anyone can post a topic, anyone can respond to a topic. The best responses get upvoted and rise to the top. The site then pretty much moderates itself with the majority viewpoint taking centre stage. If the majority viewpoint is sycophantic then so be it. If the majority viewpoint is right-wing, then so be it. But I dont think it will pan out that way. I think the majority viewpoint will be balanced and informative.

Anyway, I dont think anyone is really interested in redeveloping the site and there seems to be even less interest in redefining its "constitution". Too much fear from the Prince police and too many moderators gone stale or lost perspective.

And a revamp of the technical aspects would really help. It's so far behind other sites. Formatting is crappy and many times I write a post and it disappears and I don't even bother to rewrite. Posts run into one another. If I vist the org from google everything crashes. Does anyone even care anymore or is anyone monitoriing or updating???

I agree with babynoz.

Shut down P&R.

Anything discussed there is better suited for Reddit. And it reaches a much larger audience.

I'd rather have a Non-Prince General Discussion: Current Events.

That way we can still take time to talk about major events.

Dauphin said:

I agree with babynoz.

Shut down P&R.

Anything discussed there is better suited for Reddit. And it reaches a much larger audience.

I'd rather have a Non-Prince General Discussion: Current Events.

That way we can still take time to talk about major events.

You can talk about current events in the "General Discussion" forum now. If the event is political or religious in nature then you can bring it over to P&R.

I honestly don't understand when folks call to shut down a forum. If you don't like it, you can stop participating, you can advocate for changes, or you can do what you can do on your own to make those changes (not calling anyone out here specifically, but an example is I've seen people complain about not liking the topics. That's a simple fix - start topics you find interesting).

This site is basically on auto-pilot at this point. The site owner really only steps in to ensure the technical aspects of the site are working, and that’s when he gets a chance.

If you’re looking for sweeping changes, I’m afraid that’s a pipedream. I’d suggest starting your own site.

CarrieMpls said:

Dauphin said:

I agree with babynoz.

Shut down P&R.

Anything discussed there is better suited for Reddit. And it reaches a much larger audience.

I'd rather have a Non-Prince General Discussion: Current Events.

That way we can still take time to talk about major events.

You can talk about current events in the "General Discussion" forum now. If the event is political or religious in nature then you can bring it over to P&R.

I honestly don't understand when folks call to shut down a forum. If you don't like it, you can stop participating, you can advocate for changes, or you can do what you can do on your own to make those changes (not calling anyone out here specifically, but an example is I've seen people complain about not liking the topics. That's a simple fix - start topics you find interesting).

This site is basically on auto-pilot at this point.

I understand that. It would be great if folks just let threads flow instead of purposely derailing threads that they have no interest in.

CarrieMpls said:

Dauphin said:

I agree with babynoz.

Shut down P&R.

Anything discussed there is better suited for Reddit. And it reaches a much larger audience.

I'd rather have a Non-Prince General Discussion: Current Events.

That way we can still take time to talk about major events.

You can talk about current events in the "General Discussion" forum now. If the event is political or religious in nature then you can bring it over to P&R.

I honestly don't understand when folks call to shut down a forum. If you don't like it, you can stop participating, you can advocate for changes, or you can do what you can do on your own to make those changes (not calling anyone out here specifically, but an example is I've seen people complain about not liking the topics. That's a simple fix - start topics you find interesting).

This site is basically on auto-pilot at this point. The site owner really only steps in to ensure the technical aspects of the site are working, and that’s when he gets a chance.

If you’re looking for sweeping changes, I’m afraid that’s a pipedream. I’d suggest starting your own site.

I understand where you are coming from. I'm just giving my opinion on what I'd do with the forum. When the site was created, social media wasn't as strong of a presence. Now, there are not only many pundit sites, but huge social sites that provide outlets for political/religious conversation. As time as marched on, the niche that the forum offered is now better served elsewhere.

Ironically, that's the forum I most often frequent. I get a lot of good reading material from that forum. It's not a total loss by any stretch of the imagination. That said, it's as a frequent poster to that forum that I can say that I feel the site could do without it.

I have to say, though: this thread is about users of the forum actively stating they support closing it. Your suggestion is to simply stop posting to the forum, advocate changes, or change it by adding content. Well, here we are advocating change, right?

Also, following it up with "start your own site" is something I take offense to. I have no idea why you'd take a shot like that. I'm not just saying "close the forum," but trying to meet in the middle by offering a possible solution to fill a potential hole (or over flooding of the General Discussion forum) doing so may cause. You're basically saying "Love it or Leave it." That changes this dialog fundamentaly. I hope you see that. That's not the direction I intended to move in.

Dauphin said:

CarrieMpls said:

You can talk about current events in the "General Discussion" forum now. If the event is political or religious in nature then you can bring it over to P&R.

I honestly don't understand when folks call to shut down a forum. If you don't like it, you can stop participating, you can advocate for changes, or you can do what you can do on your own to make those changes (not calling anyone out here specifically, but an example is I've seen people complain about not liking the topics. That's a simple fix - start topics you find interesting).

This site is basically on auto-pilot at this point. The site owner really only steps in to ensure the technical aspects of the site are working, and that’s when he gets a chance.

If you’re looking for sweeping changes, I’m afraid that’s a pipedream. I’d suggest starting your own site.

I understand where you are coming from. I'm just giving my opinion on what I'd do with the forum. When the site was created, social media wasn't as strong of a presence. Now, there are not only many pundit sites, but huge social sites that provide outlets for political/religious conversation. As time as marched on, the niche that the forum offered is now better served elsewhere.

Ironically, that's the forum I most often frequent. I get a lot of good reading material from that forum. It's not a total loss by any stretch of the imagination. That said, it's as a frequent poster to that forum that I can say that I feel the site could do without it.

I have to say, though: this thread is about users of the forum actively stating they support closing it. Your suggestion is to simply stop posting to the forum, advocate changes, or change it by adding content. Well, here we are advocating change, right?

Also, following it up with "start your own site" is something I take offense to. I have no idea why you'd take a shot like that. I'm not just saying "close the forum," but trying to meet in the middle by offering a possible solution to fill a potential hole (or over flooding of the General Discussion forum) doing so may cause. You're basically saying "Love it or Leave it." That changes this dialog fundamentaly. I hope you see that. That's not the direction I intended to move in.

I hear you. I just think advocating for *big* changes (i.e. shutting down an entire forum) doesn't work in this instance. There's no authority to "make it so". Just a handful of mods doing the best they can to keep the site running.

Dauphin said:

CarrieMpls said:

You can talk about current events in the "General Discussion" forum now. If the event is political or religious in nature then you can bring it over to P&R.

I honestly don't understand when folks call to shut down a forum. If you don't like it, you can stop participating, you can advocate for changes, or you can do what you can do on your own to make those changes (not calling anyone out here specifically, but an example is I've seen people complain about not liking the topics. That's a simple fix - start topics you find interesting).

This site is basically on auto-pilot at this point. The site owner really only steps in to ensure the technical aspects of the site are working, and that’s when he gets a chance.

If you’re looking for sweeping changes, I’m afraid that’s a pipedream. I’d suggest starting your own site.

I understand where you are coming from. I'm just giving my opinion on what I'd do with the forum. When the site was created, social media wasn't as strong of a presence. Now, there are not only many pundit sites, but huge social sites that provide outlets for political/religious conversation. As time as marched on, the niche that the forum offered is now better served elsewhere.

Ironically, that's the forum I most often frequent. I get a lot of good reading material from that forum. It's not a total loss by any stretch of the imagination. That said, it's as a frequent poster to that forum that I can say that I feel the site could do without it.

I have to say, though: this thread is about users of the forum actively stating they support closing it. Your suggestion is to simply stop posting to the forum, advocate changes, or change it by adding content. Well, here we are advocating change, right?

Also, following it up with "start your own site" is something I take offense to. I have no idea why you'd take a shot like that. I'm not just saying "close the forum," but trying to meet in the middle by offering a possible solution to fill a potential hole (or over flooding of the General Discussion forum) doing so may cause. You're basically saying "Love it or Leave it." That changes this dialog fundamentaly. I hope you see that. That's not the direction I intended to move in.

Agree Dauphin. Like yourself, all I was doing was making a suggestion...I didn't even suggest that it should be closed permanently.

However, people are interjecting all kinds of things into the conversation instead of discussing what was actually suggested and have chosen to take shots and lash out with all manner of snarky comments for some reason.

Furthermore, I'm gonna keep reminding folks to stop acting like this is the first time this issue has been brought up...it has come up several times.

babynoz said:

Dauphin said:

I understand where you are coming from. I'm just giving my opinion on what I'd do with the forum. When the site was created, social media wasn't as strong of a presence. Now, there are not only many pundit sites, but huge social sites that provide outlets for political/religious conversation. As time as marched on, the niche that the forum offered is now better served elsewhere.

Ironically, that's the forum I most often frequent. I get a lot of good reading material from that forum. It's not a total loss by any stretch of the imagination. That said, it's as a frequent poster to that forum that I can say that I feel the site could do without it.

I have to say, though: this thread is about users of the forum actively stating they support closing it. Your suggestion is to simply stop posting to the forum, advocate changes, or change it by adding content. Well, here we are advocating change, right?

Also, following it up with "start your own site" is something I take offense to. I have no idea why you'd take a shot like that. I'm not just saying "close the forum," but trying to meet in the middle by offering a possible solution to fill a potential hole (or over flooding of the General Discussion forum) doing so may cause. You're basically saying "Love it or Leave it." That changes this dialog fundamentaly. I hope you see that. That's not the direction I intended to move in.

Agree Dauphin. Like yourself, all I was doing was making a suggestion...I didn't even suggest that it should be closed permanently.

However, people are interjecting all kinds of things into the conversation instead of discussing what was actually suggested and have chosen to take shots and lash out with all manner of snarky comments for some reason.

Furthermore, I'm gonna keep reminding folks to stop acting like this is the first time this issue has been brought up...it has come up several times.

Agreed.

The better title for this thread should be.

"I don't like people challenging my ideas so let's shut it down"

or "Boo hoo, someone on the internet does not agree with me"

This all came about becasue Bobynoz was upset at people challenging Graycap's Conspiracy threads. IMAGINE THAT! WHo could possibly have a differing point of view when it comes to Conspiracies!!

I don't hear people wanting to close the forum down when they engage in other topics.

Look, gray is taking on the entire illuminati AND the federal government to boot, surely he can cope with wih a couple of people challinging his ideas on the org

C'mon people, grow up.

[Edited 2/6/15 13:30pm]

V10LETBLUES said:

The better title for this thread should be.

"I don't like people challenging my ideas so let's shut it down"

or "Boo hoo, someone on the internet does not agree with me"

This all came about becasue Bobynoz was upset at people challenging Graycap's Conspiracy threads. IMAGINE THAT! WHo could possibly have a differing point of view when it comes to Conspiracies!!

I don't hear people wanting to close the forum down when they engage in other topics.

Look, gray is taking on the entire illuminati AND the federal government to boot, surely he can cope with wih a couple of people challinging his ideas on the org

C'mon people, grow up.

[Edited 2/6/15 13:30pm]

For the umteenth time, I never suggested that P&R should be permanently shut down, so that is a lie no matter how many of you try to imply it.

Being that I made it abundantly clear on the actual threads in question, I'm not sure why you think you're making some big revelation here. Furthermore, I did complain on threads other than the conspiracy ones as well...specifically a couple of race related threads that also turned into a free for all.

Secondly, as I have also stated several times, graycap is not the only one who got bullied/stalked nor is this about challenging ideas. If that were the case I would be very busy complaining about my own ideas being challenged, now wouldn't I?

As noimageatall and others have suggested, it is one thing to challenge an idea, but quite another to follow certain people around the forum from thread to thread with no purpose other than to derail, deflect and ridicule the op with personal attacks, which is what was taking place.

If a simple debate were taking place there wouldn't be anything to complain about but I was getting tired of opening thread after thread looking for a discussion and finding yet another pissing contest going on, so I said something....sue me.

Finally, I will keep saying it until you get it...this is NOT the first time that this issue has been brought up in site discussion so quit pretending that it is.

I seem to recall you making a similar complaint about how onlyndausa was being treated a couple of months ago....why the double standard all of a sudden? Are you upset because I said something to you about your clowning?

People not liking what I'm saying isn't gonna stop me from saying it.

babynoz said:

I seem to recall you making a similar complaint about how onlyndausa was being treated a couple of months ago....why the double standard all of a sudden? Are you upset because I said something to you about your clowning?

People not liking what I'm saying isn't gonna stop me from saying it.

Yes, that's what I said about you. The double standard when it's about a subject or a person you agree with. It was specifically about your double standard.

And the only one trying to stop people from saying anything seems to be you. This thread for example.

V10LETBLUES said:

babynoz said:

I seem to recall you making a similar complaint about how onlyndausa was being treated a couple of months ago....why the double standard all of a sudden? Are you upset because I said something to you about your clowning?

People not liking what I'm saying isn't gonna stop me from saying it.

Yes, that's what I said about you. The double standard when it's about a subject or a person you agree with. It was specifically about your double standard.

And the only one trying to stop people from saying anything seems to be you. This thread for example.

And of course now we get the inevitable cherry-picking quotes from an entire post.

You are correct. I AM trying to put a stop to the excessive clowning in P&R and I'm not denying it. You, on the other hand want to pick and choose who gets clowned and who doesn't and you mad because I spoke to you about it.

As far as subjects or people I don't agree with. Please show me any thread where I have lingered on the thread to derail it or followed any member around just to ridicule them....I'll wait.

babynoz said:

V10LETBLUES said:

Yes, that's what I said about you. The double standard when it's about a subject or a person you agree with. It was specifically about your double standard.

And the only one trying to stop people from saying anything seems to be you. This thread for example.

And of course now we get the inevitable cherry-picking quotes from an entire post.

You are correct. I AM trying to put a stop to the excessive clowning in P&R and I'm not denying it. You, on the other hand want to pick and choose who gets clowned and who doesn't and you mad because I spoke to you about it.

As far as subjects or people I don't agree with. Please show me any thread where I have lingered on the thread to derail it or followed any member around just to ridicule them....I'll wait.

Ok so at least we have managed to have you walk this way back. The the tittle of the thread should now read something like quit clownig on the threads i say.

I have no beef with you or the desire to go back and forth on this, just wanted to have my say on the matter.