Blood, Medicine and the Law of God?

For over 50 years, Jehovah's Witnesses have been known as “the people who do not accept blood transfusions” and many articles have appeared in the worldwide press about individual Witnesses who have refused blood transfusions before paying the price with their lives. However, not so many people realise that Jehovah's Witnesses also refuse to eat blood -- which comes as a surprise to them since the first question they usually ask is, “But don’t you eat meat?” -- and most people are aware that meat contains blood -- fact!! It may be a very small amount. It may not be arterial blood. But it is blood nevertheless. Witnesses argue that, so long as the meat they consume is bled properly, this satisfies “God’s Law” (and Watchtower teaching) and that any residual blood left in the meat doesn’t really count...

During the 60s, the efforts of Jehovah's Witnesses to avoid eating blood products (the Watchtower policy was introduced shortly after WW II). Periodically, there would be a local scare that a certain product “contained blood” so dutiful Witnesses would write to manufacturers to ascertain whether the particular product (usually tinned foods) contained blood or any of its components. “Hydrolysed protein” was always considered a doubtful ingredient and I believe that because of many queries from Witnesses, manufacturers eventually began writing “hydrolysed vegetable protein” as an ingredient. At various times, local Witnesses wrote enquiring about Bovril (beef tea), Kraft products, Oxo (beef cube flavourings), Crosse & Blackwell and Heinz -- to name a few. Questions were also asked about frozen chickens (usually acceptable), fresh chickens (“but had they been strangled...??”) and later, red wine was suspected of having blood used as a fining agent (in those distant days before modern wine-making methods Hungary was producing a delightfully-named red -- “Bull’s Blood”. This name came from folklore, but ... enough said...??)

Notice the more balanced -- but still strict -- comments of The Watchtower as late as 1992:-
How concerned should Christians be that blood components, such as dried plasma, might have been added to food products?
If there is valid basis to believe that animal blood (or a component of it) is definitely being used locally in food products, Christians should exercise due caution. Still, it would be unwise to be upset by mere suspicion or live with unfounded worry... Food Processing (Sept 1991) noted: “For those processors that have any problems with the less than 1% (in the finished meat patty) of hydrolyzed beef plasma in the blend, an alternate mix replaces it with whey protein concentrate and could be certified as Kosher.”w92 10/15 30-1

Dietary choice is one thing, but medical choices are slightly more serious. It is very sad when adults die as a result of the unchristian policy and interpretation of Scripture taught by the self-proclaimed "faithful and discreet slave" represented by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses in Brooklyn, NY. Many children have been made orphans and many marriages have lost a husband or wife to this policy which faithful and sincere Witnesses have followed under the guidance of their leadership during the last 50 years.

Children too, have died, although in some countires now, minor children are protected by the State from their parents’ well-meaning intention to obey God (actually the Watchtower Society). In recent years, because of increasing pressure by vociferous groups of former members who have shown the Watchtower leadership’s policies to be medically unsound, unreasonable and unscientific (or even just plain stupid), the Watchtower Society has made quiet adjustments to its policies on blood transfusions and blood products. (Notice that Christians have no difficulty with medical choices since the worldwide church does not take it upon itself to dictate to members what may or may not be acceptable as "proper medical treatment" when the saving of lives is paramount).

In the last 15 years, Hospital Liason Committees (HLCs) were introduced by the Watchtower Society to act as a buffer between the ordinary Witness and medical staff. It was intended that these HLCs would explain to doctors (!!) what was aceptable (or not) in the medical treatment of Jehovah's Witnesses. To their credit, medical professionals often bent over backwards to accommodate the contradictory views and beliefs of their Witness patients.

Meanwhile, the Governing Body had introduced more changes to its blood-restriction policy about which many Jehovah's Witnesses were unaware. As a result, a Witness might go into hospital for treatment and vehemently insist that, under no circumstances would s/he accept blood or any blood derivatives. Then the local HLC members would visit the Witness (especially if major surgery was involved) and would explain to the member that certain blood constituents were indeed acceptable to Jehovah's Witnesses.

The above is apparently in direct contradiction to the Watchtower Society’s own interpretation of Scripture -- for nearly 50 years, they had been saying publicly that Christians (i.e. Jehovah's Witnesses) must abstain from blood totally. Not surprisingly, few Jehovah's Witnesses were aware of these “adjustments” -- the Watchtower Society did not inform them clearly -- and it would be a foolish JW who would exercise his conscience to accept a blood transfusion or blood components without the leadership's approval since the threat of disfellowshipping would be enough to change his opinion!

True, articles had been published in The Watchtower about blood fractions as early as 1958, but the general understanding was nurtured by the Watchtower leadership, and has always been, “We do not accept blood” (see current article) and a Witness in hospital, faced with this dilemma, was taught and encouraged by the leadership to accept it as a test of faith.

Notice this typical contradiction written by the "faithful and discreet slave":

Are we to consider the injection of serums such as diphtheria toxin antitoxin and blood fractions such as gamma globulin into the blood stream, for the purpose of building up resistance to disease by means of antibodies, the same as the drinking of blood or the taking of blood or blood plasma by means of transfusion?

No, it does not seem necessary that we put the two in the same category, although we have done so in times past... The injection of antibodies into the blood in a vehicle of blood serum or the use of blood fractions to create such antibodies is not the same as taking blood, either by mouth or by transfusion, as a nutrient to build up the body’s vital forces. While God did not intend for man to contaminate his blood stream by vaccines, serums or blood fractions, doing so does not seem to be included in God’s expressed will forbidding blood as food. It would therefore be a matter of individual judgment whether one accepted such types of medication or not. w58 9/15 575

But did you know that? (be honest now!!) Or were you led to believe, and were you taught, during meetings and Bible studies at Kingdom Halls and conventions that “Jehovah's Witnesses do not accept blood -- period”?

The Watchtower w 6/15/00 the contradictions continue...

The fundamental answer is that Jehovah's Witnesses do not accept blood. We firmly believe that God's law on blood is not open to reform to fit shifting opinions. Still, new issues arise because blood can now be processed into four primary components. In deciding whether to accept such, a Christian should look beyond possible medical benefits and risks. His concern should be what the Bible says and the potential effect on his relationship with Almighty God.

[First contradiction -- "We do not accept blood -- but now we're going to tell you it's OK". Is it any wonder that, in the past, JWs in hospital were confused? Does the leadership like it that way? Yes I believe so -- because then they have control over their confused members -- "knowledge is power"]

The key issues are quite simple. As an aid to seeing why that is consider some Biblical, historical, and medical background. Jehovah God told our common ancestor Noah that blood must be treated as something special. (Genesis 9:3,4) Later, God's laws to Israel reflected
the sacredness of blood: "As for any man of the house of Israel or some alien resident...who says any sort of blood, I shall certainly set my face against the soul that is eating the blood." By rejecting God's law, an Israelite could contaminate others; thus, God added:"I shall indeed cut him off from among his people." (Leviticus 17:10) Later, at a meeting in Jerusalem, the apostles and older men decreed that we must 'abstain from blood.' Doing so is as vital as abstaining from sexual immorality and idolatry. - Acts 15:28,29.

[Notice the threat of "cutting off" -- disfellowshipping...]

What would "abstaining" have meant back then? [The same as it does to-day and has done for the last 50 years which WTS Governing Body kept telling us -- "Keep oneself away from; refrain (from); refrain from alcohol" -- Concise Oxford Dictionary] Christians did not consume blood, whether fresh or coagulated: nor did they eat meat from an unbled animal. Also ruled out would be foods to which blood was added, such as blood sausage. Taking in blood in any of those ways would violate God's law.- 1 Samuel 14:32, 33.

[Now comes the red herring of "reasonable argument/discussion]
Most people in ancient times would not have been troubled over the consuming of blood, as we can see from the writings of Tertullian (second and third centuries C.E.). Responding to false charges that Christians consumed blood, Tertullian mentioned tribes that sealed treaties by tasting blood. He also noted that " when a show is given in the arena, {some} with greedy thirst have caught the fresh blood of the guilty...as a cure for their epilepsy." Those practices (even if some Romans did them for health reasons) were wrong for Christians: "We do not include even animals' blood in our natural diet," wrote Tertullian. The Romans used food containing blood as a test of the integrity of real Christians. Tertullian added: "Now, I ask you, what sort of a thing is it, that when you are confident {that Christians} will turn with horror from animals' blood, you should suppose them greedy for human blood?"

Today, few people would think that the laws of Almighty God are at issue if a physician suggested their taking blood. While Jehovah's Witnesses certainly want to keep living, we are committed to obey Jehovah's law on blood. What does this mean in the light of current medical practice?

As transfusions of whole blood became common after World War II, Jehovah's Witnesses saw that this was contrary to God's law - and we still believe that. Yet, medicine has changed over time. Today, most transfusions are not of whole blood but of one of its primary components: (1) red cells; [Blood] (2) white cells; [Blood] (3) platelets; [Blood] (4) plasma (serum), the fluid part. [Blood -- just so we know what we are really talking about]

Depending on the condition of the patient, physicians might prescribe red cells, white cells, platelets, or plasma. Transfusing these major components allows a single unit of blood to be divided among more patients. [Actually many litres/gallons of blood must be processed to provide small single doses of any one of these components] Jehovah's Witnesses hold that accepting whole blood or any of those four primary components violates God's law. Significantly, keeping to this Bible-based position has protected them from many risks, including such diseases as hepatitis and AIDS that can be contracted from blood.

[The JW leadership commonly uses selective quotations to "prove" their case on these examples and has always presented a negative view of blood transfusions in its literature -- obviously, not everyone who accepts a blood transfusion contracts disease. Notice also, the shift in emphasis -- we started off talking about "blood" -- now we are discussing "whole blood or any of those four primary components"]

However, since blood can be processed beyond those primary components,questions arise about fractions derived from the primary blood components. How are such fractions used, and what should a Christian consider when deciding on them?

Blood is complex. Even the plasma - which is 90 percent water - carries scores of hormones, inorganic salts, enzymes, and nutrients, including minerals and sugar. Plasma also carries such proteins as albumin, clotting factors, and antibodies to fight diseases. Technicians isolate and use many plasma proteins. For example, clotting factor VIII has been given to
haemophiliacs, who bleed easily. Or if someone is exposed to certain diseases, doctors might prescribe injections of gamma globulin, extracted from the blood plasma of people who already had immunity. Other plasma proteins are used medically, but the above mentioned illustrate how a primary blood component (plasma) may be processed to obtain fractions. **

[Fascinating footnotes!! Notice the double standards:]
So, if medical personnel suggest that a Christian permit some of his blood to be withdrawn and deposited in a blood bank for later transfusion purposes, the Christian is not without guidance from the Bible as to the proper course. He can mention that ancient Israelites were told that removed blood was to be ‘poured out on the ground as water,’ to show that it was for God and not to sustain the life of some earthly creature. (Deut. 12:24) And he can refer to the pointed command that Christians ‘abstain from blood.’ In view of this, how could he allow his blood to be collected in a blood bank for later transfusion into himself or another person? -- w78 6/15 30

and ...

In Bible times men had not devised such techniques for using these components. God simply commanded: ‘Abstain from blood.’ (Acts 15:28, 29) But why should anyone think that it would make a difference whether the blood was whole or had been separated into these components? Though some men drank blood, Christians refused even if it meant death. Do you think that they would have responded differently if someone had collected blood, allowed it to separate, and then offered them just the plasma or just the clotted part, perhaps in blood sausage? No, indeed! -- w90 6/1 30

The current article continues...
Pharmaceutical firms have developed recombinant products that are not taken from blood and that may prescribed in place of some blood fractions used in the past. Just as blood plasma can be a source of various fractions, the other primary components (red cells, white cells, platelets) can be processed to isolate smaller parts. For example, white blood cells may be a source of interferon's and interleukins, used to treat some viral infections and cancers. Platelets can be processed to extract a wound healing factor. And other medicines are coming along that involved (at least initially) extracts from blood components. Such therapies are not transfusions of those primary components; they usually involve parts or fractions thereof.

Should Christians accept these fractions in medical treatment? We cannot say. [But for the last 50 years they did!! And their answer was usually a resounding "NO"!! See above quotations for example] The Bible does not give details, so a Christian must make his own conscientious decision before God. Some would refuse anything derived from blood (even fractions intended to provide temporary passive immunity). That is how they understand God's command to 'abstain from blood.' They reason that his law to Israel required that blood removed from a creature be 'poured out on the ground.' (Deuteronomy 12: 22-24)

Why is that relevant? Well, to prepare gamma globulin, blood-based clotting factors, and so on, requires that blood be collected and [large quantities stored and] processed. Hence, some Christians [JWs] reject such products, just as they reject transfusions of whole blood or of its four primary components. Their sincere, conscientious stand should be respected.
Other Christians [JWs] decide differently. They too refuse transfusions of whole blood, red cells, white cells, platelets, or plasma. Yet, they might allow a physician to treat them with a fraction extracted from the primary components. Even here there may be differences. One Christian [JW] may accept a gamma globulin injection, but he may or may not agree to an injection containing something extracted from red or white cells. Overall, though,what might lead some Christians to conclude that they could accept blood fractions?

[Notice, throughout the Watchtower article, the subtle shift from "blood" to "whole blood". If you, the reader, are an active JW, and you see no difficulty in this reasoning, ask yourself this: “How would I feel about separating fornication into its component parts?” Using the same daft logic of the Watchtower writers, can we present a case that shows that “a little fornication” is OK? Perhaps “heavy petting” between engaged people will be approved soon, so long as it does not lead to full sexual intercourse? Or how about the long-disapproved masturbation? (probably not -- a 14 years old boy was recently disfellowshipped for this private act). Or should you expect future wife-swapping sessions, so long as full intercourse does not occur? Stupid? Well, I am following Watchtower logic to its inevitable conclusions. But the question remains: "Does a reading of the Bible without The Watchtower lead one to the inevitable conclusion that blood transfusion is forbidden by God?"]

BOX: "Suggested Questions for the Doctor"
If you face surgery or a treatment that might involve a blood product, ask:"Do all the medical personnel involved know that, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I direct that no blood transfusions (whole blood, red cells, white cells, platelets, or blood plasma) be given to me under any circumstances?

If any medicine to be prescribed may be made from blood plasma, red or white cells, or platelets, ask:"Has the medicine been made from one of the four primary blood components?

If so, would you explain its makeup? How much of this blood-derived medicine might be administered, and in what way?

If my conscience permits me to accept this fraction, what medical risks are there?

If my conscience moves me to decline this fraction, what other therapy might be used?

After I have considered this matter further, when may I inform you of my decision?
(End of Box)

[The above is a classic case of the Governing Body "passing the buck" to its members without actually reminding them that for 50 years, they have taught publicly that "blood is forbidden"]

The Watchtower of June 1, 1990, noted that plasma proteins (fractions) move from a pregnant woman's blood to the separate blood system of her fetus. [Here comes another Watchtower red herring] Thus a mother passes immunoglobulins to her child, providing valuable immunity. Separately, as a fetus' red cells complete their normal life span, their oxygen-carrying portion is processed. Some of it becomes bilirubin, which crosses the placenta to the mother and is eliminated with her body wastes. Some Christians may conclude that since blood fractions can pass to another person in this natural setting, they could accept blood fractions derived from blood plasma or cells.

[A typical WTS "straw man" argument diverting attention away from the real issues -- natural processes are irrelevant since medical procedures are man-made/artificial. And in any case, a fetus is hardly subject to the laws of God -- or (hopefully) even the Watchtower Governing Body -- on blood consumption]

Does the fact that opinions and conscientious decisions may differ mean that the issue is inconsequential? No. It is serious. Yet, there is a basic simplicity. The above material shows that Jehovah's Witnesses refuse transfusions of both whole blood and its primary blood components. [For 50 years, their tune was "JWs refuse/abstain from blood. This is our interpretation -- period" -- Hypocrites!!]

The Bible directs Christians to 'abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from fornication'. (Acts 15:29) Beyond that, when it comes to fractions of any of the primary components, each Christian, after careful and prayerful meditation, must conscientiously decide for himself.

Many people would be willing to accept any therapy that seems to offer immediate benefit, even a therapy having known health risks, as is true of blood products. The sincere Christian endeavours to have a broader, more balanced view that involves more than just the physical aspects. Jehovah's Witnesses appreciate efforts to provide quality medical care, and they
weigh the risk/benefit ratio of any treatment.

[Untrue -- the leadership has consistently encouraged JWs to obstruct the medical profession for 50 years on this issue and has prevented JWs from having necessary medical treatment -- blood transfusions, transplants, vaccinations -- under threat of excommunication]

However, when it comes to products derived from blood, they carefully weigh what God says and their personal relationship with our Life-Giver. - Psalm 36:9. What a blessing for a Christian to have such confidence as the psalmist who wrote: "Jehovah God is a sun and a shield; favor and glory are what he gives. Jehovah himself will not hold back anything good from those waking in faultlessness. O Jehovah..., happy is the man that is trusting in you"!
Psalm 84: 11, 12.

["Jehovah" has nothing to do with this -- it is the obdurate Watchtower Society leadership alone that is making this "clarification" after 50 years of suffering by its membership to make itself appear very reasonable in the face of continued and proper criticism]

Ordinary Jehovah's Witnesses are willing to accept anything that the Organisation suggests. Already they are rationalising this latest change. Witnesses close their eyes to the unchristian behaviour of the local leadership which is sponsored by the Governing Body because they love it that way.

It is time for apologies and reparation and the disappearance of the Watchtower Organisation as a thriving business. It has the potential to do so much charitable good worldwide.
While Watchtower leaders condemn others as "bloodguilty", their own hands are stained by the shed blood of their own members and will never be clean or sweet-smelling again.

CeeJay said:

Is there a version of this on "Cliff's Notes"?

I've often wondered if construction of a red lightsaber takes place before you can become a Republican, or is it something you do after initiation. Dah, well...

well i for one believe that the Watchtower Society teaches the truth every bit as much as i believe that charles taze russell could read and write hebrew fluently

U know what? I didn't read one single line of that! Na-na!!!

Very interesting. From what I seen from your post, you want to tear down what JW stand for. It seems interesting to me that you don't seem to pick on anyone else? You seem like you want to try and prove JW wrong.

I have read two or three of your posts and you are well informed. You know most of what is taught which makes me wonder why?

I can tell you this reguardless of what you say. We are the only ones that live by bible standards because we know that Jehovah gave the bible as a map so we can make to the next level. Someone has to try and prove someone wrong.

Let me tell you this. Who else do you know is trying to live by bible standards? If we are then why try to break us down. Show some respect on what we love and keep your comments to yourself. I'm not trying to keep you quiet on what your trying to point out but please list all those who worship God and who is living by its standards.

I find it very interesting that you can find fault in us? It would appear that you have a clear understanding. It would also seem that you do your research on the web and you copy and paste on this board. I know that Jehovah is going to change everyting and if you don't think so then so be it. Don't put it down on what I think is true.

Everyone has their vision so to speak on what they think is true. Why pick on us? I can't prove to you even in your bible. I did hear from you that we are living the way the bible says we should live. Anyway, since you know so much. Post what you think is wrong and keep in mind that the watchtower and awake are good publications but our main book is the bible.

Anyway, Cee...I wonder how much you can type about others that worship God. Do that as a matter of fact. Point out other faults that you see in those that worship God. Do that...

following the teachings of jesus is one thing. following false doctrines created by men is another. do not confuse the two

Well said GRR. Certain people who post here do have it in for Jehovah's Witnesses. Their aim is only to knock down and discredit what Witnesses believe. If the moderators applied equality on the forums Jehovah's Witnesses wouldn't have to put up with this bigotry. However I suppose it comes as no real surprise as Jesus said, “If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU.” John 15:19

XxAxX said:

I don't see any hate in CeeJay's post , it it's false tell please what? where? how?

I have been conversing with CeeJay through Yahoo. This person told me there profession and that is a Doctor off many years. This person has also told me that he/she is one off Jehovah Witness and has been since birth, his/her father is a respected elder in the area where they live and I am not going to say he/she is lying as by what CeeJay is written they certainly know a lot.

CeeJay actually told that he/she is questioning there beliefs, delving in deeper and is surprised what he/she is finding out, this is there right. I have asked many questions to Ceejay why they feel the need to post this information, i was told it is like therapy and this person thought some may be interested. This person actually told me there research is from all material at Kingdom Hall also medical material and advised me to do the same.


As much as i do not agree with some that is written i have to say that CeeJay has always been respectful to me and what is written above I can not see as a put down in anyway.

Stand by your faith we do not need to put others down when they try to dispute others, CeeJay is on some sort off road off self discovery, i am not saying its right or wrong, but everyone can not go round shouting out your always putting us down when others feel they are getting put down to.

If we have evidence to prove what is written is faulse then we should show this, if it is the truth why not just say yes thats correct and stand by it. We should educate each other to come to an understanding what maybe right for me might be wrong for you, it swings both ways.

You may ask yourself why does she(me) feel the need to write this, Well, It cuts both ways in my eyes, we can not go around shouting out what we think is the truth if others cant do the same. We got to stop taking everything so personal. I am secure in what i believe i do not feel the need to put another down that does not believe the same as i do.

I am tried off all this, to be truthful its puts me off, i am questioning now the people i am associating with, we are supposed to Christians time for us to act this way and start coming together the way God intended us to do.

Ok I vented

Peace

P.S CeeJay give me permission to write this and i also told him/her if they are playing me to remember Karma, what you give out you get right back.
CeeJay also challenged me to do some research and see if i can dispute what they have wrote as no one else has bothered, and i’m on the case so be afraid CeeJay

.
[This message was edited Sat Jan 3 14:02:10 PST 2004 by katt]

That was a very courageous response. I admire that. It's easy to just accuse someone of trying to tear you down without offering a rebuttal. No one has posted anything to the contrary. Of course, everyone does not have the desire/energy to debate, but tell us why you believe what you believe and why you think that what you believe is true.
Free your mind and your ass will follow.

Peace and B Wild!

illimack said:

That was a very courageous response. I admire that. It's easy to just accuse someone of trying to tear you down without offering a rebuttal. No one has posted anything to the contrary. Of course, everyone does not have the desire/energy to debate, but tell us why you believe what you believe and why you think that what you believe is true.
Free your mind and your ass will follow.

Peace and B Wild!

katt said:

I have been conversing with CeeJay through Yahoo. This person told me there profession and that is a Doctor off many years. This person has also told me that he/she is one off Jehovah Witness and has been since birth, his/her father is a respected elder in the area where they live and I am not going to say he/she is lying as by what CeeJay is written they certainly know a lot.

CeeJay actually told that he/she is questioning there beliefs, delving in deeper and is surprised what he/she is finding out, this is there right. I have asked many questions to Ceejay why they feel the need to post this information, i was told it is like therapy and this person thought some may be interested. This person actually told me there research is from all material at Kingdom Hall also medical material and advised me to do the same.


As much as i do not agree with some that is written i have to say that CeeJay has always been respectful to me and what is written above I can not see as a put down in anyway.

Stand by your faith we do not need to put others down when they try to dispute others, CeeJay is on some sort off road off self discovery, i am not saying its right or wrong, but everyone can not go round shouting out your always putting us down when others feel they are getting put down to.

If we have evidence to prove what is written is faulse then we should show this, if it is the truth why not just say yes thats correct and stand by it. We should educate each other to come to an understanding what maybe right for me might be wrong for you, it swings both ways.

You may ask yourself why does she(me) feel the need to write this, Well, It cuts both ways in my eyes, we can not go around shouting out what we think is the truth if others cant do the same. We got to stop taking everything so personal. I am secure in what i believe i do not feel the need to put another down that does not believe the same as i do.

I am tried off all this, to be truthful its puts me off, i am questioning now the people i am associating with, we are supposed to Christians time for us to act this way and start coming together the way God intended us to do.

Ok I vented

Peace

P.S CeeJay give me permission to write this and i also told him/her if they are playing me to remember Karma, what you give out you get right back.
CeeJay also challenged me to do some research and see if i can dispute what they have wrote as no one else has bothered, and i’m on the case so be afraid CeeJay

.
[This message was edited Sat Jan 3 14:02:10 PST 2004 by katt]

BigGuns said:

katt said:

I have been conversing with CeeJay through Yahoo. This person told me there profession and that is a Doctor off many years. This person has also told me that he/she is one off Jehovah Witness and has been since birth, his/her father is a respected elder in the area where they live and I am not going to say he/she is lying as by what CeeJay is written they certainly know a lot.

CeeJay actually told that he/she is questioning there beliefs, delving in deeper and is surprised what he/she is finding out, this is there right. I have asked many questions to Ceejay why they feel the need to post this information, i was told it is like therapy and this person thought some may be interested. This person actually told me there research is from all material at Kingdom Hall also medical material and advised me to do the same.


As much as i do not agree with some that is written i have to say that CeeJay has always been respectful to me and what is written above I can not see as a put down in anyway.

Stand by your faith we do not need to put others down when they try to dispute others, CeeJay is on some sort off road off self discovery, i am not saying its right or wrong, but everyone can not go round shouting out your always putting us down when others feel they are getting put down to.

If we have evidence to prove what is written is faulse then we should show this, if it is the truth why not just say yes thats correct and stand by it. We should educate each other to come to an understanding what maybe right for me might be wrong for you, it swings both ways.

You may ask yourself why does she(me) feel the need to write this, Well, It cuts both ways in my eyes, we can not go around shouting out what we think is the truth if others cant do the same. We got to stop taking everything so personal. I am secure in what i believe i do not feel the need to put another down that does not believe the same as i do.

I am tried off all this, to be truthful its puts me off, i am questioning now the people i am associating with, we are supposed to Christians time for us to act this way and start coming together the way God intended us to do.

Ok I vented

Peace

P.S CeeJay give me permission to write this and i also told him/her if they are playing me to remember Karma, what you give out you get right back.
CeeJay also challenged me to do some research and see if i can dispute what they have wrote as no one else has bothered, and i’m on the case so be afraid CeeJay

.
[This message was edited Sat Jan 3 14:02:10 PST 2004 by katt]

I don't necessarily agree with what you're saying but I respect and admire the way you've said it. I await your research with interest.

katt said:

BigGuns said:

I don't necessarily agree with what you're saying but I respect and admire the way you've said it. I await your research with interest.

Is that you CeeJay If it is , if not

ScottNPG said: