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Printable version (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)imnotsayinthisjust2bnasty said: the only other thing i can suggest is to read the bible.
I read the bible, why do you think I'm so confused?  | |
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imnotsayinthisjust2bnasty said: IceNine said: imnotsayinthisjust2bnasty said: IceNine said: I can appreciate your viewpoint, but I can never accept that it is "best" to allow unimaginable suffering if you have the capability to stop it. The fundamental problems with the cruelty that is inherent in the very idea that god would allow horrible suffering are enough to make me an atheist, not to mention the countless problems with mankind's formulations of religions based upon their concept of this god. once again, though, you are comparing your own logic to God's. and also, once again, you are blaming man's actions on God. it is hard not to do it but it is a very important part of spirituality. we must not consider ourselves as intelligent as our creator. My only creators were my parents, therefore I don't have to think that I am not as intelligent as them. I look at human suffering and see that there is no reason for it if there is a god... If god is the architect of all things, then one must admit that he created good and evil, happiness and misery, love and hate, lust, greed, racism, insanity, disease and everything else in the world. EVERYTHING is the fault of a god who does not care... Killing a million people is the same to god as making a flower bloom. OR there is another option: There is no god and everything is human. ... [This message was edited Sun Jul 6 11:38:04 PDT 2003 by IceNine] well, i honestly tried to help you out with some possible answers. the only other thing i can suggest is to read the bible. i know you don't believe in God. just because you don't believe in Him doesn't mean he doesn't believe in you. yeah, yeah, corny but true. i respectfully bow out of the conversation here, though, because you don't really want to know the answers to your questions as you already think you have them. peace. I appreciate your attempting to provide answers, but I was hoping for answers that made rational sense instead of mystical, biblical sense. I understand that "the lord works in mysterious ways" and all that, what I don't understand is why people accept it. That is what is so easy about christianity, you don't have to confront the horrible, evil nature of god and his lack of concern for the amazing suffering of humanity, you can just say that we are not fit to understand his reasons. SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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icenine said: I know that you did provide a christian response and I appreciate that, but do you feel that a just god would punish EVERY human forever for the "sins" of Adam and Eve? What kind of monster tortures thousands of generations of his creations for the actions of two? God does not punish EVERY human 4ever 4 the "sins" of Adam. Bcuz of Adam's disobedience human's lived under "the curse". But now, Bcuz of the redeeming power of the Blood of Jesus Christ, we humans have salvation. We have an Advocate. We no longer have 2 live under the curse, by choice!The curse fell upon the entire world Bcuz of Adam. God created mankind 4 fellowship. 2 love, 2 spend time with. Always God first and last. Not just some weekend lover thang. Can U relate? poor poor stupid computer... PEACE N B WiLD!!! 4jamiestarr | |
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4jamiestarr said: icenine said:
I know that you did provide a christian response and I appreciate that, but do you feel that a just god would punish EVERY human forever for the "sins" of Adam and Eve? What kind of monster tortures thousands of generations of his creations for the actions of two? God does not punish EVERY human 4ever 4 the "sins" of Adam. Bcuz of Adam's disobedience human's lived under "the curse". But now, Bcuz of the redeeming power of the Blood of Jesus Christ, we humans have salvation. We have an Advocate. We no longer have 2 live under the curse, by choice!The curse fell upon the entire world Bcuz of Adam. God created mankind 4 fellowship. 2 love, 2 spend time with. Always God first and last. Not just some weekend lover thang. Can U relate? poor poor stupid computer... PEACE N B WiLD!!! If what you say is the case, why do children suffer when they make no choices and do nothing that is offensive to god? SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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savoirfaire said: REDFEATHERS said: No, if I was God (as I only know on this earth, I wouldnt) but God sent his son Jesus Christ onto this earth for a reason, and Jesus suffered a terrible death.
We do not know the meaning of life nor understand it, only the higher being than ourselves does, and until we fully understand that (if we ever do) nobody can really answer that question truly. Hopefully, all these children are taken to a better life and they life in peace and calm in Heaven. To add to this Redfeathers, don't you think saying "God knows and we don't, because we're not God" is a cop-out of an answer? Doesn't this just avoid answering any question that doesn't want to be answered? Is this truly a justifiable way of defending counter-arguments to you? Because, I think it solves nothing, and just means that those who say it have a blind and un-questioning faith in something, which in and of itself does not offer explanation, motivation, or proof of anything, which therefore makes it unresolved. And, if this is the case, where do theists draw the line between what should be offered as explanation for things, and what things don't need to be explained? As usual, I received no replies  I think I'm invisible."We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins | |
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savoirfaire said: savoirfaire said: REDFEATHERS said: No, if I was God (as I only know on this earth, I wouldnt) but God sent his son Jesus Christ onto this earth for a reason, and Jesus suffered a terrible death.
We do not know the meaning of life nor understand it, only the higher being than ourselves does, and until we fully understand that (if we ever do) nobody can really answer that question truly. Hopefully, all these children are taken to a better life and they life in peace and calm in Heaven. To add to this Redfeathers, don't you think saying "God knows and we don't, because we're not God" is a cop-out of an answer? Doesn't this just avoid answering any question that doesn't want to be answered? Is this truly a justifiable way of defending counter-arguments to you? Because, I think it solves nothing, and just means that those who say it have a blind and un-questioning faith in something, which in and of itself does not offer explanation, motivation, or proof of anything, which therefore makes it unresolved. And, if this is the case, where do theists draw the line between what should be offered as explanation for things, and what things don't need to be explained? As usual, I received no replies I think I'm invisible.It is frustrating, my friend... try again, maybe someone will take a shot at answering you. 
I would answer you, but I think that we are on the same side of the fence. SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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No one has answers to these questions. Not really. Everyone has an "imo" about it, so here is mine.
"a poor fool indeed is a man who adopts a manner of thinking for others" | |
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Sure, there's a god! Here's proof...
"When they tell me 2 walk a straight line, I put on crooked shoes" | |
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IceNine said: It is frustrating, my friend... try again, maybe someone will take a shot at answering you.
I would answer you, but I think that we are on the same side of the fence. thank you!
I think I'd prefer to have 100 people say "Shut up you fucknut, you're a fucking idiot", then to have everyone completely fail to acknowledge the fact that I tried to contribute my thoughts on the topic. It's one of the reasons I don't post too often, because it doesn't seem worth it if no one will bother reading what I have to say. But of course, if threads titled "." are destined to receive more response than me, then so be it. "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins | |
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imnotsayinthisjust2bnasty said: ...when God first created Earth and Adam & Eve, it was a perfect world. no disease, no death, no stress...just happiness and joy. man has since made bad decisions. those bad decisions have long lasting repercussions, disease being one of them. hopefully that answers the question.
And then who gave men the ability to make "bad decisions"? Adam & Eve...please... ___________________________________________________________________________________
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prrtybby said: No one has answers to these questions. Not really. Everyone has an "imo" about it, so here is mine.
God's lack of compassion for humanity came from humans lack of compassion for humanity. Humans are horribly mean and selfish. They feel that they deserve the proverbial pealed grape on a platter. God turned his back on us right after "the begining" He knew he made a mistake from the off. Strange. When I start something, and I notice that I've made a big mistake, I'd eliminate it and start over but with improvements. Not just give up. It was the other god's that talked him into letting us get rid of ourselves. We weren't doing it fast enough though. Could be population controll as well. We are breeding like barn animals you know. Seems like the pop-control doesn't work. The other thing about the children, maybe god knows the fate of those particular children. Maybe their life would be of greater suffering if allowed to develope to maturity. Then why alow them to come to live first ? But god can only help so many at a time. Or maybe It is the parents fault. The parents did somethng horrible and the worst suffering would be an external loss. (as opposed to their own death I mean) So God is a terrorist ? ___________________________________________________________________________________
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Questions like these are so hard for christians to answer in any way that makes any sense and still leaves god looking like a good guy. SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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TheMax said: Sure, there's a god! Here's proof...
Yeah, thank you Jesus, thank you, lord. No man shall separate what God has joined together. Yet this very moment... | |
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Life ain't heaven. Lifes a bitch. But to be able to love someone in a world that doesn't love U back is an exercise for the soul. And soul = the grace of God. NOTE: THIS ACCOUNT IS NOW CLOSED. PLEASE CONTACT “K A M  L L E” | |
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That conjoined twin picture made me wonder why god would allow something like that... SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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I love the star rating system... christians who are unable to provide any logical, reasonable answer to the question can simply vote zero stars in place of any sort of intellectual endeavor.
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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savoirfaire said: IceNine said: It is frustrating, my friend... try again, maybe someone will take a shot at answering you.
I would answer you, but I think that we are on the same side of the fence. thank you!
I think I'd prefer to have 100 people say "Shut up you fucknut, you're a fucking idiot", then to have everyone completely fail to acknowledge the fact that I tried to contribute my thoughts on the topic. It's one of the reasons I don't post too often, because it doesn't seem worth it if no one will bother reading what I have to say. But of course, if threads titled "." are destined to receive more response than me, then so be it. Im so there with u also. Y answer a question someone supposedly have an answer anyway? To me, It pretty much defeats the purpose. "It's not what they call you, it's what you respond to." - Mabel "Madea" Simmons | |
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one2three said: savoirfaire said: IceNine said: It is frustrating, my friend... try again, maybe someone will take a shot at answering you.
I would answer you, but I think that we are on the same side of the fence. thank you!
I think I'd prefer to have 100 people say "Shut up you fucknut, you're a fucking idiot", then to have everyone completely fail to acknowledge the fact that I tried to contribute my thoughts on the topic. It's one of the reasons I don't post too often, because it doesn't seem worth it if no one will bother reading what I have to say. But of course, if threads titled "." are destined to receive more response than me, then so be it. Im so there with u also. Y answer a question someone supposedly have an answer anyway? To me, It pretty much defeats the purpose. You missed his point entirely. Now, do you have an answer to the question? SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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TweetyV6 said: prrtybby said: No one has answers to these questions. Not really. Everyone has an "imo" about it, so here is mine.
God's lack of compassion for humanity came from humans lack of compassion for humanity. Humans are horribly mean and selfish. They feel that they deserve the proverbial pealed grape on a platter. God turned his back on us right after "the begining" He knew he made a mistake from the off. Strange. When I start something, and I notice that I've made a big mistake, I'd eliminate it and start over but with improvements. Not just give up. It was the other god's that talked him into letting us get rid of ourselves. We weren't doing it fast enough though. Could be population controll as well. We are breeding like barn animals you know. Seems like the pop-control doesn't work. The other thing about the children, maybe god knows the fate of those particular children. Maybe their life would be of greater suffering if allowed to develope to maturity. Then why alow them to come to live first ? But god can only help so many at a time. Or maybe It is the parents fault. The parents did somethng horrible and the worst suffering would be an external loss. (as opposed to their own death I mean) So God is a terrorist ? Ok so I am not sure I understand you. Do you think there is a god of some nature? I understand that you might eliminate and start over, but what if that wasn't possible? What if the deal was that you get to create a world but that was it. You could do nothing to fix any problem that may arise only observe the consequences of the actions of the inhabitants (like an 8th grade science project). What if god didn't want to fix anything he just keeps throwing shit at the humans to see how we deal with it. What if we are god. What if we make our own fate, create our own situations and then fail to fix our problems by blaming it on an imaginary force so we don't have to feel the guilt of our own failiure. It is the fault of humans that we have disease in the first place. Maybe god decides to let the children come to life to see if we will find a cure before god takes them. I don't know, god doesn't feel the need to explaine himself (that is IF there even is a god by the way)to me. There was a time when humans believed that there was more than one god. What if the one god we have now got greedy and killed off all of the other gods, but they were the ones that had the powers to fix the bad things. So now your one god is fucked and just gets to sit in the shit that is getting left behind. What if god is a terrorist? What would you do? could you eliminate and start over with a new "one god" and make the improvements it needed to be a better "one god" than the last? The answer is, there is no answer unfortunately. christians and catholics believe everthing that happens is gods will. catholics believe that we are all born sinners therefore, even at birth seemingly innocent children are not without sin. That makes them be easy targets for a vengeful god. They can't speak and can't ask for forgiveness. I suppose that also means that they don't get to go to heaven. You have to ask for forgiveness to get in don't you? The bible states (that is one of the many many many versions of the bible, but that is a whole different topic) that jews are the "chosen people" and that they get in no matter what. Jews don't blame god for the misgivings of humans and accept that fate that is their own. Jews also don't irritate god on his one and only day off. Maybe that is why so many bad things keep happening to people most of the world is christian or catholic or one of their offspring, and you people ( not you you because I don't know what you practice, I mean the general population you) keep going to church every sunday (gods day off by the way) to ask favours of him. God that was long winded!!! Sorry but there is more than one person in my house writing this. I was trying to get everything everone said. I should have never told anyone what I was writing about. "a poor fool indeed is a man who adopts a manner of thinking for others" | |
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There are plenty of things that I believe God allows to happen as a test of faith to his believers. Also, there are plenty of genetic disorders and illnesses that would not be here if not for the imperfections and poor choices of humankind. Humans adapt many of the "bad" things in society and bring many things upon themselves, so God stays out and lets humans reap their own evil rewards sometimes.
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if god is personified, then i think it is an absentee landlord/gardener and earth is a science experiment  | |
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savoirfaire said: IceNine said: It is frustrating, my friend... try again, maybe someone will take a shot at answering you.
I would answer you, but I think that we are on the same side of the fence. thank you!
I think I'd prefer to have 100 people say "Shut up you fucknut, you're a fucking idiot", then to have everyone completely fail to acknowledge the fact that I tried to contribute my thoughts on the topic. It's one of the reasons I don't post too often, because it doesn't seem worth it if no one will bother reading what I have to say. But of course, if threads titled "." are destined to receive more response than me, then so be it. Shut the fuck up you dicklicking he-bitch! 
. . . . . . . . . .  "Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry Even a man who is pure of heart And says his prayers by night May become a wolf When the wolfbane blooms And the autumn moon is bright | |
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Maybe God is an evil jackass. He fooled us all into thinking he was benevolent and kind, but in reality he's just holed up in his Blofeld-esque volcano lair cackling his ass off as us humans slaughter each other in his name. He invites his fellow asshole friends over...they have a few beers...and place some bets...who's gonna win? The Palestinians this time??? "Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry Even a man who is pure of heart And says his prayers by night May become a wolf When the wolfbane blooms And the autumn moon is bright | |
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prrtybby said: TweetyV6 said: prrtybby said: No one has answers to these questions. Not really. Everyone has an "imo" about it, so here is mine.
God's lack of compassion for humanity came from humans lack of compassion for humanity. Humans are horribly mean and selfish. They feel that they deserve the proverbial pealed grape on a platter. God turned his back on us right after "the begining" He knew he made a mistake from the off. Strange. When I start something, and I notice that I've made a big mistake, I'd eliminate it and start over but with improvements. Not just give up. It was the other god's that talked him into letting us get rid of ourselves. We weren't doing it fast enough though. Could be population controll as well. We are breeding like barn animals you know. Seems like the pop-control doesn't work. The other thing about the children, maybe god knows the fate of those particular children. Maybe their life would be of greater suffering if allowed to develope to maturity. Then why alow them to come to live first ? But god can only help so many at a time. Or maybe It is the parents fault. The parents did somethng horrible and the worst suffering would be an external loss. (as opposed to their own death I mean) So God is a terrorist ? Ok so I am not sure I understand you. Do you think there is a god of some nature? No. prrtybby said: I understand that you might eliminate and start over, but what if that wasn't possible?
Not possible ? For the "thing" that created earth & the universe ? Did "its" powers fade ? prrtybby said: What if the deal was that you get to create a world but that was it. You could do nothing to fix any problem that may arise only observe the consequences of the actions of the inhabitants (like an 8th grade science project). What if god didn't want to fix anything he just keeps throwing shit at the humans to see how we deal with it.
What a sadist, throws shit at us and then punish/judge us by how we handle it prrtybby said: What if we are god.
Did you have an overdose of Bruce Almighty? prrtybby said: What if we make our own fate, create our own situations and then fail to fix our problems by blaming it on an imaginary force so we don't have to feel the guilt of our own failiure.
Some people do exactly that. I'd like to call them insane prrtybby said: It is the fault of humans that we have disease in the first place.
Did I miss something ? Aren't diseases just a dwell of nature ? prrtybby said: Maybe god decides to let the children come to life to see if we will find a cure before god takes them.
now I'm sure: "it" is a sadist prrtybby said: I don't know, god doesn't feel the need to explaine himself (that is IF there even is a god by the way)to me.
Hmmm.. so it's inexplainable ? prrtybby said: There was a time when humans believed that there was more than one god.
There was a time when humans had far less knowledge than we have now. Everything unexplainable was explained as an act of (a) God prrtybby said: What if the one god we have now got greedy and killed off all of the other gods, but they were the ones that had the powers to fix the bad things. So now your one god is fucked and just gets to sit in the shit that is getting left behind.
So besides a sadist, "it" is also a ice cold killer ? prrtybby said: What if god is a terrorist? What would you do?
I'd call George W. Bush and ask for a pre-emptive strike
prrtybby said: could you eliminate and start over with a new "one god" and make the improvements it needed to be a better "one god" than the last?
Freaky... I'm in control of God ? prrtybby said: The answer is, there is no answer unfortunately. christians and catholics believe everthing that happens is gods will.
catholics believe that we are all born sinners therefore, even at birth seemingly innocent children are not without sin. That makes them be easy targets for a vengeful god. Well IMHO christians/catholics (in fact all believers) miss a braincell or two prrtybby said: They can't speak and can't ask for forgiveness. I suppose that also means that they don't get to go to heaven. You have to ask for forgiveness to get in don't you?
How can they ask for forgiveness when they don't know that they have to ? Or were U born whith a basic knowledge of the bible ? prrtybby said: The bible states
Stop right here. The bible states many things, but it's all crap. fairy tales and stories for the "braincell or two missing"-ones 
prrtybby said: (that is one of the many many many versions of the bible, but that is a whole different topic) that jews are the "chosen people" and that they get in no matter what. Jews don't blame god for the misgivings of humans and accept that fate that is their own. Jews also don't irritate god on his one and only day off.
If that's their belief, so be it. I can only laugh about it. prrtybby said: Maybe that is why so many bad things keep happening to people most of the world is christian or catholic or one of their offspring, and you people ( not you you because I don't know what you practice, I mean the general population you) keep going to church every sunday (gods day off by the way) to ask favours of him.
God that was long winded!!! Wel, I am an Alfista and I practice the Speed of the Spider
prrtybby said: Sorry but there is more than one person in my house writing this. I was trying to get everything everone said. I should have never told anyone what I was writing about.
I hope they're having a good laugh, just as I do ___________________________________________________________________________________
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karma. I don't want to get into it cuz I do not feel up to it, but Karma is my one word answer. BY THE POWER INVESTED IN ME BY GOD ALL NEGATIVITY BOWS | |
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Ok. so the george bush thing was FUNNY! My girlfriend thinks that some guy just made the whole god/bible thing up as well. She thinks he did it for world order.
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IceNine said: Sending Jesus to earth does not answer the question and only proves that god would want to allow people to die horribly.
How can you allow someone that you love to die a horrible death? The answer from a religious point of view is simple. We are born into a state of sin and that state allows for all kinds of horrible things to occur, despite the existence of God. This mentality takes the burden of responsibility squarely off God's shoulders and places it on a single decision by 2 people in a garden who simply wanted to "know"... 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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markusmom said: some parents often make false idols of their children, putting them on pedastals, and God does not like this, so He chooses to correct it in His own way. I hope this helps
 .Well I guess that explains what happened to Jon Benet Ramsey... 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: IceNine said: Sending Jesus to earth does not answer the question and only proves that god would want to allow people to die horribly.
How can you allow someone that you love to die a horrible death? The answer from a religious point of view is simple. We are born into a state of sin and that state allows for all kinds of horrible things to occur, despite the existence of God. This mentality takes the burden of responsibility squarely off God's shoulders and places it on a single decision by 2 people in a garden who simply wanted to "know"... It certainly is a hell of an easy cop out, isn't it? SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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IceNine said: imnotsayinthisjust2bnasty said: this all goes back to free will and the first humans. people are quick to blame God for the bad things in this world meanwhile letting humans off the hook for past bad decisions. when God first created Earth and Adam & Eve, it was a perfect world. no disease, no death, no stress...just happiness and joy. man has since made bad decisions. those bad decisions have long lasting repercussions, disease being one of them. hopefully that answers the question.
I know that you did provide a christian response and I appreciate that, but do you feel that a just god would punish EVERY human forever for the "sins" of Adam and Eve? What kind of monster tortures thousands of generations of his creations for the actions of two? Especially when he created them with the capacity to learn to the point of genius! The desire to grow and learn on an intellectual level is inherent in us as humans. Look at how quickly babies learn. They are like monsters, growing in their intellect in leaps and bounds. God created this in us yet punished his first creations for simply wanting to possess "knowledge". This makes no sense whatsoever. None at all... 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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