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WHEN A WOMAN HAS AN ABORTION Does that make her a murderer? | |
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Do you really want to go there | |
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lovemachine said: Do you really want to go there
 I second that. In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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Paisley said: Does that make her a murderer?
I'll side step that question and ask a new one... Do you think that all the anti-abortion people who try to make a woman keep an unwanted baby should be forced to pay all her bills and then raise the child themselves? :-p A werewolf, a vampire, and a ghost share a house together.. in Bristol! http://being-human.tv
The Blue Whale Pub - SF/F TV/Movie Discussion | |
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jtfolden said: Paisley said: Does that make her a murderer?
I'll side step that question and ask a new one... Do you think that all the anti-abortion people who try to make a woman keep an unwanted baby should be forced to pay all her bills and then raise the child themselves? :-p That's the better question. | |
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Not according to the law.
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No, it does not make her a murderer. Women have the right to do this and no one should be able to stop any woman that wishes to terminate her pregnancy. Having said that, I do not agree with abortion at all, but I do agree that we should have the right to abort. | |
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stymie said: jtfolden said: Paisley said: Does that make her a murderer?
I'll side step that question and ask a new one... Do you think that all the anti-abortion people who try to make a woman keep an unwanted baby should be forced to pay all her bills and then raise the child themselves? :-p That's the better question. It really is... 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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Here's another question. Is a soul a soul if the soul is not aware that it's a soul? In other words, is the soul present if the lifeform is not even aware that it is alive? I'm not saying that there isn't the potential for life but since nobody can remember being in the womb... 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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Paisley said: Does that make her a murderer?
No She makes a favor for the child if she can't afford to raise it, if she has some kind of addiction, abuse or live a life in hell. Insert coin
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100% for abortion Insert coin
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Do you want personal or public opinion on this, or both? | |
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if it has to be yes or no, then...
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Rudy said: if it has to be yes or no, then...
yes. Is this answer the same if you prevent a fertilized egg from inplanting in the first place? I've heard people argue that is murder too... 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Rudy said: if it has to be yes or no, then...
yes. Is this answer the same if you prevent a fertilized egg from inplanting in the first place? I've heard people argue that is murder too... I've always been kind of on the fence about that one. | |
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The state can't even decide this matter.
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"She wants a place in heaven, rooms of that level r few. Let's not b lazy, there's no room service- it's all up 2 me & u." | |
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From someone who has had an abortion, it is murder. I made the decision to kill my unborn child. I understood that my child had life but I decided to take that away because of various reasons.
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I think you're being way too hard on yourself Rhondab. I'm sure when you made the decision to abort, you did it because you felt that you had to. Aren't you glad you had the right to decide for yourself?? | |
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sen2pen said: The state can't even decide this matter.
If a pregnant woman and her fetus get killed in a car accident, the drunk driver gets charged with 2 counts of murder. In this case, the state considers the fetus a life. If a woman wants to abort her fetus because she can't afford it or whatever, then it's not a life, it's just a lump of cells. Contradictions in our legal system? I think so. It is a contradiction, to an extent. Only because if someone kills a pregnant woman, intentionally or not, that killer has taken away the right of life from both the woman and her baby. And I agree with RhondaB...having an abortion myself I totally understand where she is coming from also. Whenever I see a year old baby smiling, laughing, and enjoying life...I always think of him/her. "It's not what they call you, it's what you respond to." - Mabel "Madea" Simmons | |
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JDODSON said: Do you want personal or public opinion on this, or both?
I will reply to my own question on this. I believe that second and third trimester abortions should be illegal with the exception of mother's health reasons, especially the third trimester. I also believe in a ban on what they call "partial birth abortion", which would be included in the third trimester. It is just way too creepy to abort a child in the 2nd and 3rd, especially the 3rd, because a kid is already having thoughts and actions by then. Now, as far as 1st trimester, I don't think anything should change- that should be legal, because rape cases and bad decisions happen, and mothers should always have that right. I agree with dispensing drugs like RU486 like candy at free clinics. To me, the investment in the "morning after pills" would benefit society greatly. Better education in schools about all human sexuality should be taught as prevention as well. Peace, JD | |
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JDODSON said: JDODSON said: Do you want personal or public opinion on this, or both?
I will reply to my own question on this. I believe that second and third trimester abortions should be illegal with the exception of mother's health reasons, especially the third trimester. I also believe in a ban on what they call "partial birth abortion", which would be included in the third trimester. It is just way too creepy to abort a child in the 2nd and 3rd, especially the 3rd, because a kid is already having thoughts and actions by then. Now, as far as 1st trimester, I don't think anything should change- that should be legal, because rape cases and bad decisions happen, and mothers should always have that right. I agree with dispensing drugs like RU486 like candy at free clinics. To me, the investment in the "morning after pills" would benefit society greatly. Better education in schools about all human sexuality should be taught as prevention as well. Peace, JD 1. RU486 is not "the morning after pill". RU486 is also called "the abortion pill" and is a medication that is used for inducing abortion up to about 6 weeks. The morning after pills are like extra strength birth control pills, they prevent a woman from releasing an egg or if the egg's already released, prevents it from implanting. The morning after pills must be taken within 72 hours of unprotected sex to be effective, and are available at clinics or through a pharmacist. There's legislation in process right now to make it available without prescription. 2. Almost all partial birth abortions are performed because the baby would have been born with the sort of birth defects that would cause the child to die shortly after birth in a great deal of pain (organs growing outside of the body, diseases, etc.). Outlawing them would merely cause more suffering. [This message was edited Fri Jun 6 12:42:51 PDT 2003 by AnotherLoverToo] | |
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one2three said: sen2pen said: The state can't even decide this matter.
If a pregnant woman and her fetus get killed in a car accident, the drunk driver gets charged with 2 counts of murder. In this case, the state considers the fetus a life. If a woman wants to abort her fetus because she can't afford it or whatever, then it's not a life, it's just a lump of cells. Contradictions in our legal system? I think so. It is a contradiction, to an extent. Only because if someone kills a pregnant woman, intentionally or not, that killer has taken away the right of life from both the woman and her baby. And I agree with RhondaB...having an abortion myself I totally understand where she is coming from also. Whenever I see a year old baby smiling, laughing, and enjoying life...I always think of him/her. In my post above, I stated how critical it is for any woman facing this decision to ask herself what decision she'd be able to live with for the rest of her life. No one should have an abortion if she can't live with the guilt. Just as no one should be forced to carry or bear a child if she is unwilling or incapable of caring for it. With you and RhondaB and anyone else who has had an abortion and believes they have murdered: please remember that there are many other women who have had abortions as well who do not believe that, and have found peace and know they did the right thing. Everyone is different, and we can only speak via our personal experiences and the feelings that come from them. And luckily, women have a choice in the matter (right now), so we have no one but ourselves to blame for doing the "wrong" thing or praise for doing the "right" thing. | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: 1. RU486 is not "the morning after pill". RU486 is also called "the abortion pill" and is a medication that is used for inducing abortion up to about 6 weeks. The morning after pills are like extra strength birth control pills, they prevent a woman from releasing an egg or if the egg's already released, prevents it from implanting. The morning after pills ARE available at clinics or through a pharmacist. There's legislation in process right now to make it available without prescription. Thanks for the info. I agree with dispensing both types of drugs at free clinics. AnotherLoverToo said: 2. Almost all partial birth abortions are performed because the baby would have been born with the sort of birth defects that would cause the child to die shortly after birth in a great deal of pain (organs growing outside of the body, diseases, etc.). Outlawing them would merely cause more suffering. If that was always the case, then I agree with leaving it legal. I fear that leaving it legal may be indirectly supportive of women who want to abort their child even if the child has a problem that could possibly be healed over time outside the body, like certain diseases and defects. Also, I really wouldn't have a problem with abortion if humans were a bit smarter about making better life decisions. I knew girls in school that would continually use abortion as a fallback for promiscuity. | |
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JDODSON said: If that was always the case, then I agree with leaving it legal. I fear that leaving it legal may be indirectly supportive of women who want to abort their child even if the child has a problem that could possibly be healed over time outside the body, like certain diseases and defects. Also, I really wouldn't have a problem with abortion if humans were a bit smarter about making better life decisions. I knew girls in school that would continually use abortion as a fallback for promiscuity. I used to work teaching sex education, so I had access to some very good statistics and medically based information. A lot of people give out incorrect information that's aimed at inciting emotion, unfortunately. Now I work in a Maternity Clinic, with pregnant women and their families. I can honestly reassure you, JDODSON, that the rates for abortion have been declining quite a bit. It's been going down since the 90s for all groups. One of the reasons is for sure because of better methods of birth control--the shot and other methods that women don't have to remember to take everyday--as well as more accessibility to birth control. There's also been some better ways of teaching abstinence, instead of "just say no or you're going to hell", lol. Also, a lot of people have the wrong impression about women who get abortions. According to medical stats kept, most women who get an abortion only ever get ONE. Abortion is not such an easy and fun procedure that women go out and have them all of the time. Most women don't make that mistake again, and they get on a regular method of birth control and use it right. Secondly, most of the teenagers who end up gettng abortions WERE using some kind of birth control method, but it failed (the condom broke) or they took a risk "one time" (she didn't take her pill for a week cause she ran out of money, didn't use a condom a couple of times, etc.) Thirdly, my experience working with pregnant women who want the baby has been that they get bonded with the baby right away. I truly cannot think of one time that any couple has told me that if their baby had a birth defect, that they wouldn't be okay with it. I have been amazed at how many times couples actually pass up genetic testing to test for birth defects, cause they say it wouldn't matter and that they'll accept whatever comes. | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: JDODSON said: If that was always the case, then I agree with leaving it legal. I fear that leaving it legal may be indirectly supportive of women who want to abort their child even if the child has a problem that could possibly be healed over time outside the body, like certain diseases and defects. Also, I really wouldn't have a problem with abortion if humans were a bit smarter about making better life decisions. I knew girls in school that would continually use abortion as a fallback for promiscuity. I used to work teaching sex education, so I had access to some very good statistics and medically based information. A lot of people give out incorrect information that's aimed at inciting emotion, unfortunately. Now I work in a Maternity Clinic, with pregnant women and their families. I can honestly reassure you, JDODSON, that the rates for abortion have been declining quite a bit. It's been going down since the 90s for all groups. One of the reasons is for sure because of better methods of birth control--the shot and other methods that women don't have to remember to take everyday--as well as more accessibility to birth control. There's also been some better ways of teaching abstinence, instead of "just say no or you're going to hell", lol. Also, a lot of people have the wrong impression about women who get abortions. According to medical stats kept, most women who get an abortion only ever get ONE. Abortion is not such an easy and fun procedure that women go out and have them all of the time. Most women don't make that mistake again, and they get on a regular method of birth control and use it right. Secondly, most of the teenagers who end up gettng abortions WERE using some kind of birth control method, but it failed (the condom broke) or they took a risk "one time" (she didn't take her pill for a week cause she ran out of money, didn't use a condom a couple of times, etc.) Thirdly, my experience working with pregnant women who want the baby has been that they get bonded with the baby right away. I truly cannot think of one time that any couple has told me that if their baby had a birth defect, that they wouldn't be okay with it. I have been amazed at how many times couples actually pass up genetic testing to test for birth defects, cause they say it wouldn't matter and that they'll accept whatever comes. Someone very close to me had an abortion long ago. And much of this I do understand. You are right, I think much of what some think is just emotion incited. I would never make a law or suggest a law that would effect a woman's right to choose. If true relevant facts ever did show that it was being used commonly and frequently for irresponsible reasons, then I might agree with changing the law a bit, just as I'm sure many would agree with that. It seems like you are a very responsible person who is very good hearted. I am glad there is someone like you in the profession who knows the differences and can help better society. Your friend, Jason | |
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prematurely or unnaturally ending the life cycle is murder. whether it is 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree is another argument. | |
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imnotsayinthisjust2bnasty said: prematurely or unnaturally ending the life cycle is murder. whether it is 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree is another argument.
My personal "in my head" beliefs on the issue pretty much mirrors yours. Socially, I step aside and observe what is going on. Like I said above, I would only push for a change in the law if I was in a position where I could actually hire researchers to look at all facts regarding the statistics on abortion usage. Then, if it was proven that the procedure was being used irresponsibly and irrationally, I would make laws to change the situation. I think there are folks like the lady above who are being very cautious about the situation and try everything in their power to explain alternatives to abortion, but we need more people like her in the clinics worldwide. | |
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JDODSON said: imnotsayinthisjust2bnasty said: prematurely or unnaturally ending the life cycle is murder. whether it is 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree is another argument.
My personal "in my head" beliefs on the issue pretty much mirrors yours. Socially, I step aside and observe what is going on. Like I said above, I would only push for a change in the law if I was in a position where I could actually hire researchers to look at all facts regarding the statistics on abortion usage. Then, if it was proven that the procedure was being used irresponsibly and irrationally, I would make laws to change the situation. I think there are folks like the lady above who are being very cautious about the situation and try everything in their power to explain alternatives to abortion, but we need more people like her in the clinics worldwide. i do believe that before we change abortion laws we need to change adoption laws. we should not make it so difficult to adopt an unwanted child. just the fact that any family wants to take care of another human being should be enough (barring any pyschological exams). once the foundations are corrected, then we can begin to change abortion laws. | |
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Too bad we can't ask God that question.
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lovebird said: Too bad we can't ask God that question.
The people that ask the question if Iam forced to have my baby are you going to pay for it?. Well, the people do pay for it a lot of times. It's called welfare and food stamps. The people are supposed to pay for your baby when you are the one that got pregnant? I could never think of a reason to "get rid' of my unborn child. Look at the actress Gilda Radner. She had two abortions, and than when the poor lady had to have a historectomy. Her first thought was " I'll never have a baby. we don't have to ask God that question, lovebird. it is already written in the bible. god gives and god takes away...not man. also, the majority of the women in the position of needing an abortion got there due to poor judgement. sure, some of them were raped but i think that stats on that is below 5%. i'm not saying people should be punished for poor judgements/decision, just made to be responsible for them. killing (or erasing) your problem is only a temporary solution. what about the stress and depression that often follows abortions? some women even become suicidal because of the guilt. surely we can provide other healthier options for these people. | |
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