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Reply #270 posted 05/02/19 2:19am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

I have stated my position - you have stated a two word slogan three weeks after the thread started and are just trolling with personal attacks.

I think nuance is something greatly missing from most debates, at the same time I believe sometimes certain things are blatant and clear cut. There are people who make arguments that Nazism is a nuanced conversation. Many of us don’t, we see it as clear cut position. Someone I greatly look up to once said “let your phone be smart and you be wise” My position on Assange is quite clear, it’s bold. . [Edited 5/2/19 2:13am]

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You boldly troll three weeks after the thread started with a two word slogan and think this is wise!!!!

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Reply #271 posted 05/02/19 2:39am

hausofmoi7

avatar

Did I really say that Ian?
Your editing is superb.
I said nuance is something that is greatly missing from debates.
At the same time nuance is not the same thing as being ambiguous in an attempt to appeal to everyone.
This is what politicians do.
Also somethings don’t require nuance, like nazism.
Your attempt at making everything ambiguous at a certain point becomes farcical.

Your inability to grasp the nuance in what I said is ironic to say the least (I think you are smart enough to get it quite clearly, although it appears playing dumb can be beneficial at times)
Well done Shakespeare.




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[Edited 5/2/19 4:36am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #272 posted 05/02/19 2:46am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

Did I really say that Ian? Your editing is superb. I said nuance is something that is greatly missing from debates. At the same time nuance is not the same thing as being ambiguous in an attempt to appeal to everyone. This is what politicians do. Also somethings don’t require nuance, like nazism. Your attempt at making everything nuanced at a certain point becomes farcical. Your inability to grasp the nuance in what I said is ironic to say the least.

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I understood what you said - you flip flopped between arguing for more and less nuance to hide your lack of content.

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Hiding behind false accusations and simplisitic slogans three weeks after everyone else started discussing this is not nuanced, not being direct and certainly not being bold or wise. It is just trollng - no nuance - just trolling.

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Reply #273 posted 05/02/19 2:48am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

Did I really say that Ian? Your editing is superb. I said nuance is something that is greatly missing from debates. At the same time nuance is not the same thing as being ambiguous in an attempt to appeal to everyone. This is what politicians do. Also somethings don’t require nuance, like nazism. Your attempt at making everything ambiguous at a certain point becomes farcical. Your inability to grasp the nuance in what I said is ironic to say the least (although I think you are smart enough to get it quite clearly, playing dumb when it’s beneficial has it advantages at times it appears) Well done Shakespeare. . [Edited 5/2/19 2:44am]

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And another post where you edit what you said to troll some more.

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Reply #274 posted 05/02/19 2:49am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

Did I really say that Ian? Your editing is superb. I said nuance is something that is greatly missing from debates. At the same time nuance is not the same thing as being ambiguous in an attempt to appeal to everyone. This is what politicians do. Also somethings don’t require nuance, like nazism. Your attempt at making everything ambiguous at a certain point becomes farcical. Your inability to grasp the nuance in what I said is ironic to say the least (although I think you are smart enough to get it quite clearly, it appears playing dumb when it’s beneficial has it advantages at times) Well done Shakespeare. . [Edited 5/2/19 2:48am]

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And yet another edit.

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Reply #275 posted 05/02/19 2:51am

IanRG

^^^ Do you actually have a point or are you just thread hijacking yet again with no content?

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Reply #276 posted 05/02/19 3:04am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


Did I really say that Ian? Your editing is superb. I said nuance is something that is greatly missing from debates. At the same time nuance is not the same thing as being ambiguous in an attempt to appeal to everyone. This is what politicians do. Also somethings don’t require nuance, like nazism. Your attempt at making everything ambiguous at a certain point becomes farcical. Your inability to grasp the nuance in what I said is ironic to say the least (although I think you are smart enough to get it quite clearly, it appears playing dumb when it’s beneficial has it advantages at times) Well done Shakespeare. . [Edited 5/2/19 2:48am]

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And yet another edit.


Editing what I personally said to be more clear, or fix spelling and grammatical errors is not the same as editing what someone else said to try and slander them.

Huge difference Ian. Some may call even call it “nuance”.


So you will be at the free Assange rallies in Australia?
Is that clear enough for you?




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[Edited 5/2/19 3:06am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #277 posted 05/02/19 3:05am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

And yet another edit.

Editing what I personally said to be more clear, or fix spelling and grammatical errors is not the same as editing what someone else said to try and slander them. Huge difference Ian.

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Do you actually have a point or are you just thread hijacking yet again to troll with no content?

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Reply #278 posted 05/02/19 3:06am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

And yet another edit.

Editing what I personally said to be more clear, or fix spelling and grammatical errors is not the same as editing what someone else said to try and slander them. Huge difference Ian. Some may call even call it “nuance”. So you will be at the free Assange rallies in Australia? Is that clear enough for you? . [Edited 5/2/19 3:06am]

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Do you actually have a point or are you just thread hijacking yet again to troll with no content?

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Reply #279 posted 05/02/19 7:37am

hausofmoi7

avatar

The press should be allowed to speak truth power without reprisal.
Many are afraid to, and what is happening to Julian is giving people an insight into why the media is at best tepid most of the times.
Because there are consequences.


Julian is a publisher which is not a crime. Wikileaks actually exposed crimes like murder and genocide.

People who are mad at Julian have a political axe to grind.
Wikileaks went for everyone’s head from left to right. Which has now put Julian in this awkward position. Where everyone and thier dog are after him with pitchforks like he is the local town witch.

Julian isn’t ambiguous, he is honest, and that will be his biggest hurdle here.






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[Edited 5/2/19 8:04am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #280 posted 05/02/19 7:59am

poppys

poppys said:

Musicslave said:

I don't anything significant will come out of him being extradicted to the U.S. Especially not with this current Adminstration. Remember, trump said, "Wikileaks, I love wikileaks."

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https://thehill.com/blogs...-wikileaks

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Funny how someone who loves wikileaks doesn't want to release the Mueller Report. Selective releasing, huh?


Do you think Trump will pardon or commute his sentence if he gets one? I still don't understand why Assange thought it was a better idea to go into hiding "forever". Did he think it was going to be worse than a 5 year max sentence?

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Reply #281 posted 05/02/19 2:56pm

IanRG

poppys said:

poppys said:


Funny how someone who loves wikileaks doesn't want to release the Mueller Report. Selective releasing, huh?


Do you think Trump will pardon or commute his sentence if he gets one? I still don't understand why Assange thought it was a better idea to go into hiding "forever". Did he think it was going to be worse than a 5 year max sentence?

.

Assange feared the potential Swedish sentence for rape followed by extradiction to the US and the potential for a death sentence there. He obviously did not have an exit strategy as it would be completely unreasonable to expect to stay in the embassey forever. There are unconfirmed reports that the Russian government was looking at getting him out.

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Reply #282 posted 05/02/19 5:12pm

poppys

The US death penalty stuff was drama.

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/02/719435175/julian-assange-vows-to-fight-extradition-to-the-united-states

Julian Assange Vows To Fight Extradition To The United States

...Ben Brandon, the lawyer representing the U.S. government, told the court on Thursday that Assange could face a maximum prison sentence of five years if he is convicted, according to media reports. Investigators based their allegations on exchanges between Assange and Manning in chatroom communications, Brandon said.


[Edited 5/2/19 17:20pm]

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Reply #283 posted 05/02/19 8:25pm

IanRG

poppys said:

The US death penalty stuff was drama.

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/02/719435175/julian-assange-vows-to-fight-extradition-to-the-united-states

Julian Assange Vows To Fight Extradition To The United States

...Ben Brandon, the lawyer representing the U.S. government, told the court on Thursday that Assange could face a maximum prison sentence of five years if he is convicted, according to media reports. Investigators based their allegations on exchanges between Assange and Manning in chatroom communications, Brandon said.


[Edited 5/2/19 17:20pm]

.

It was all drama. The US had plenty of opportunity before the Swedes and whilst he was in custody to extradite him and they chose not to. They never tried to extradite Assange, they have never charged Wikileaks, never required them to take down the Snowden or Manning stuff, never prosecuted the people working for Wikileaks, never tried to shutdown the site. It was all about avoiding the Swedish investigation at the time.

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It is only now that the US is doing something and it is not about publishing (Assange is not a publisher, Wikileaks is), not about freedom of the press (There are questions whether a repository site is "the press"), not about whisteblowing things a person learned in their job - it is about allegedly helping Manning break in to a computer she had no access to.

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It is absolutely necessary to promote free press and protections for whistleblowing and to ensure that what is revealed is acted on as almost certainly in most situations worse than what the press or whistleblower may have done - BUT this does not put the press or whistleblower above the law. If you think about what Fox News or Breitbart and their ilk could get away with if they were not constrained by the law, then this shows why they must work within the law.

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Reply #284 posted 05/13/19 5:20am

IanRG

And Sweden is back in play - The investigation into the charges of rape are back on.

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Despite claims by Assange's legal team that the Swedish investigation had timed out and he was being fully cooperative (by hiding in an embassy!), the Swedish legal system says they only ceased because Assange was hiding from them in the embassy because "it was not expected that he would be surrendered to Sweden in the foreseeable future". The Swedes say they had determined there was probable cause of the charge of rape back in 2010 and that the proportionate response to the arrest warrant that he ran away from was that the prosecution required Assange's presence in court. Also they disagree with the claim by some that the charge had timed out - they say this will occur 17 August 2020.

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Given the Swedes will be competing with the US on which country comes first in the order of priority, this kind of kills Assange's claim that the Swedes were just being used by the US to get Assange out of the UK. This was hardly believable back then because the US had made no moves to extradite Assange from when he was arrested on 7 Dec 2010 (in regards to the rape and lesser charge) until he ran on 19 June 2012, 4 days after the UK Supreme Court determined he would be surrendered to the Swedes. That the Swedes are now throwing a spanner in the works to jump the queue ahead of the US shows it is not believable now either.

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Reply #285 posted 05/13/19 6:47am

poppys

^^ Then let Sweden do what it needs to do before August 2020. Assange is starting to make me sick. Avoiding the consequences of facing his accusers in Sweden.

Pretending he may get the death penalty in the US when the maximum sentence for what he did was 5 years. He's no martyr, more like an egomaniac, loves the attention.

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Reply #286 posted 05/13/19 7:33am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #287 posted 05/16/19 4:44pm

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

poppys said:

^^ Then let Sweden do what it needs to do before August 2020. Assange is starting to make me sick. Avoiding the consequences of facing his accusers in Sweden.

Pretending he may get the death penalty in the US when the maximum sentence for what he did was 5 years. He's no martyr, more like an egomaniac, loves the attention.

rolleyes So over that guy. I do not consider him a jounalist - he has become a sensationalist/opportunist.

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #288 posted 05/17/19 11:03am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Free Chelsea, again.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #289 posted 05/17/19 3:17pm

Lovejunky

avatar

poppys said:

^^ Then let Sweden do what it needs to do before August 2020. Assange is starting to make me sick. Avoiding the consequences of facing his accusers in Sweden.

Pretending he may get the death penalty in the US when the maximum sentence for what he did was 5 years. He's no martyr, more like an egomaniac, loves the attention.

we,ll see....

Presidential Candidate Mike Gravel:

Julian Assange WON'T Receive a Fair Trial in the US!

toggle forward to 8:20

“LOVE IS THE MASTERPLAN”
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Reply #290 posted 05/17/19 5:19pm

IanRG

2freaky4church1 said:

Free Chelsea, again.

.

Her stunts are only making it harder for Assange.

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Reply #291 posted 05/17/19 6:52pm

Lovejunky

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

Free Chelsea, again.

You know that eventualy they are going to Charge her $1000 per day for being in Custody ?

“LOVE IS THE MASTERPLAN”
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Reply #292 posted 05/17/19 7:33pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

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Hope that some of the outlandish claims of corruption are looked into. Assange walks away with his journalist integrity and some from the Clinton administation are hulled off the prison but arrest I believe stems from something to do with Mueller. I hope Assange wasn't a Russian spy. So soon after the release of the report. Recommended by Mueller that Assange was a Russian spy?

What are you outraged about today? CNN has not told you yet?
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Reply #293 posted 05/17/19 7:36pm

IanRG

Lovejunky said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Free Chelsea, again.

You know that eventualy they are going to Charge her $1000 per day for being in Custody ?

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How much extra will she make on the talk circuits?

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Either you want a fair trial within the law or not. If not, keep supporting breaking the law.

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Imagine if, instead of it being about Manning and Assange, it was about Hannity assisting Pauline Hansen to break into al Jazeera?

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The expectations of a fair trial means that the process must be politically or ideologically blind and followed. The process should not be obstructed by, say, hiding in an embassy for almost 7 years to avoid a Swedish warrant in regards to allegations of rape and sexual assault or by being in contempt of court because you have twice refused to testify before federal grand jury.

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Reply #294 posted 05/18/19 6:41am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Her stunts? Being in prison is not fun. She is a freedom fighter.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #295 posted 05/18/19 4:52pm

IanRG

2freaky4church1 said:

Her stunts? Being in prison is not fun. She is a freedom fighter.

.

Political stunts are not known for being fun.

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Reply #296 posted 05/18/19 7:48pm

IanRG

2freaky4church1 said:

Her stunts? Being in prison is not fun. She is a freedom fighter.

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The difference between a freedom fighter like Manning and Assange is that Manning took the moral high ground over the law and faced the consequences - ultlimately being pardoned. Assange ran and hid from rape and sexual assault charges. He lied about his secret deals with a far right political party for his Australian political party. He lied about the source of the DNC hacked materials. Now she is only in prison to make a point.

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Reply #297 posted 05/20/19 7:59pm

Lovejunky

avatar

The Truth About the Charges Against Julian Assange

“LOVE IS THE MASTERPLAN”
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Reply #298 posted 05/20/19 9:05pm

IanRG

Lovejunky said:

The Truth About the Charges Against Julian Assange

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I will go the Swedes about their law, not one of the myriad youtube bloggers. The Swedes disagree that this just about a wide definition of rape. They understand, as do most courts in most countries that rape can be rape even if you gave consent the previous night - This applies in Australia - consent can be removed during the act. They understand that initiating sex with a person whilst they are asleep to overcome that they previously required Assange wear a condom is rape - This would apply in Australia as well.

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Plus, it makes no sense for Sweden to seek to reopen its investigation and continue its warrant for Assange to be questioned in Sweden, if all they were doing was secretly acting for the USA because the UK would not extradite Assange. Note: that warrant has, in fact, not timed out according actual Swedish law.

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Why does it make no sense? Read what the Swedish legal system has been consistently saying, not just what Assanges lawyers and youtube blog defenders have been claiming. Also, if the Swedes were just being used by the US, they would not now be trying to potentially block the US 2019 extradition request with their own. Note: the first US application was only just made this year.

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Assange has been under the Swedish warrant since 2010 and only ran and hid 5 days after it was detemined in court that Assange should be questioned in Sweden according to the warrant. The legal system does not work that the person accused and being investigated can decide how a country's legal system should work and court decisions can be ignored so long as you are hiding out in the embassy of the third country in the country whose court decided you should meet the requirements of the warrant.

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Address the issue, don't just post youtubes with no commentary.

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