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Reply #450 posted 05/08/19 7:28pm

2elijah

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https://www.google.com/am...cna1003396


N.Y. state Senate passes bill allowing Congress to get Trump tax returns

“The state Senate also passed legislation that would make it easier for the state to prosecute individuals who were pardoned by the president.”

May 8, 2019, 1:41 PM ET / Updated May 8, 2019, 1:57 PM ET
By Allan Smith

“The New York State Senate passed a bill Wednesday that would make it easier for Congress to obtain President Donald Trump's state tax returns, a measure that Gov. Andrew Cuomo has said he will sign if it reaches his desk.

The bill, called the TRUST Act, passed by a 39-to-21 vote. It would amend state law to permit the commissioner of the state Department of Taxation and Finance to release any state tax return requested by the leaders of the House Ways and Means Committee, the Senate Finance Committee or the Joint Committee on Taxation for any "specific and legitimate legislative purpose." Existing laws generally prohibit such a release.”
(Click on link to continue reading)
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Reply #451 posted 05/08/19 7:31pm

2elijah

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Musicslave said:



2elijah said:


benni said:



This is why he is desperate to be re-elected. I read that if he’s re-elected he could run out the statute of limitations, I believe that is 5 years, to avoid prosecution. Not sure how true that is. I certainly hope SDNY can charge him once he is out of office, and that the women who accused him of sexual harassment can have their day in court. [Edited 5/7/19 5:21am]

-


This is why I'm hoping that he doesn't start a dumb war somewhere like Iran to try to justify him staying in office. Not saying it would work, just hoping that he doesn't try it. (Which means he's likely to try it) lol


You kind of called it on Iran, because it seems the media reported about Pompeo cancelling his trip to Iran this week. Seems like WH is just using that as a distraction.
[Edited 5/8/19 19:45pm]
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Reply #452 posted 05/08/19 7:34pm

2elijah

avatar

poppys said:



benni said:




poppys said:




Republican led Senate Intelligence Committee, now there's an oxymoron. We know those questions wil be a nerf ball toss. disbelief




I heard someone say earlier that they are wondering if this is some kind of set up between the Republicans and Trump to shape the narrative, before the House can get him in front of them.



I tend to agree with this. I'm pretty cynical but as Lily Tomlin said a long time ago, you can never get too cynical. Truer than ever now.

I also think Pelosi is saying some things - such as he won't accept the outcome of the election if it's close - just to get it on the record in case it happens.


True, because I remember trump making a comment to that effect last year, if he is impeached. He was basically sending a message to his supporters to riot or protest if he is impeached.

See past article below where he said that.

https://www.google.com/ur...5734682880

Trump: People will ‘revolt’ if he’s impeached


By BRENT D. GRIFFITHS
12/11/2018 09:06 PM EST
Updated 12/11/2018 10:06 P


“President Donald Trump said on Tuesday that there would be chaos across the country if he were impeached.

“I’m not concerned, no,” the president told Reuters reporters about his potential impeachment during an interview in the Oval Office. “I think that the people would revolt if that happened.”
[Edited 5/8/19 19:44pm]
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Reply #453 posted 05/08/19 8:41pm

poppys

2elijah said:

poppys said:

I tend to agree with this. I'm pretty cynical but as Lily Tomlin said a long time ago, you can never get too cynical. Truer than ever now.

I also think Pelosi is saying some things - such as he won't accept the outcome of the election if it's close - just to get it on the record in case it happens.

True, because I remember trump making a comment to that effect last year, if he is impeached. He was basically sending a message to his supporters to riot or protest if he is impeached. See past article below where he said that. https://www.google.com/ur...5734682880 Trump: People will ‘revolt’ if he’s impeached By BRENT D. GRIFFITHS 12/11/2018 09:06 PM EST Updated 12/11/2018 10:06 P “President Donald Trump said on Tuesday that there would be chaos across the country if he were impeached. [b]“I’m not concerned, no,” the president told Reuters reporters about his potential impeachment during an interview in the Oval Office. “I think that the people would revolt if that happened.”


nod Exactly. Consider all the times Trump has had to wriggle out of situations. He is really good at setting people up psychologically for what he's inevitably going to do. When Pelosi said that this week it seemed early but then I thought well she's good at strategy so there must be a reason she put that out there.

[Edited 5/9/19 7:26am]

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Reply #454 posted 05/09/19 7:22am

Musicslave

2elijah said:

Musicslave said:

-

This is why I'm hoping that he doesn't start a dumb war somewhere like Iran to try to justify him staying in office. Not saying it would work, just hoping that he doesn't try it. (Which means he's likely to try it) lol

You kind of called it on Iran, because it seems the media reported about Pompeo cancelling his trip to Iran this week. Seems like WH is just using that as a distraction. [Edited 5/8/19 19:45pm]

-

Yes, it's a distraction but it's also a real possibility considering who the current commander-in-chief is. John Bolton and certain other of his ilk have been wanting to bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran for years now. Not to mention trump's other puppet master (besides Putin) Benjamin Netanyahu has been wanting us to do the same.

-

With an incompetent, unlearned, bull in the china shop (which his supporters love) in office, everything's on the table.

-

My other concern besides Iran is this: All parties of the international communitity see our current situation and they are going to try to take full advantage of The Orangutan being in office while they can.

Kim Jong Un is continuing his nuclear program despite saying he's not. My concern with this scenario is Kim Jong Un forcing the US to take action or appear to take action (wink, wink). Then trump will try to rally the country around him.

-

And that's just it..... Foreign actors giving trump an opportunity to "appear" to be strong and thereby, rally Americans around him because of faux patriotism in his re-election bid.

-

This is a risky strategy but that's never stopped him before. And it won't now.

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Reply #455 posted 05/09/19 7:28am

poppys

^^ Agree. Trump and Bolton together are a match made in hell.

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Reply #456 posted 05/09/19 8:33am

2elijah

avatar

Musicslave said:



2elijah said:


Musicslave said:


-


This is why I'm hoping that he doesn't start a dumb war somewhere like Iran to try to justify him staying in office. Not saying it would work, just hoping that he doesn't try it. (Which means he's likely to try it) lol



You kind of called it on Iran, because it seems the media reported about Pompeo cancelling his trip to Iran this week. Seems like WH is just using that as a distraction. [Edited 5/8/19 19:45pm]

-


Yes, it's a distraction but it's also a real possibility considering who the current commander-in-chief is. John Bolton and certain other of his ilk have been wanting to bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran for years now. Not to mention trump's other puppet master (besides Putin) Benjamin Netanyahu has been wanting us to do the same.


-


With an incompetent, unlearned, bull in the china shop (which his supporters love) in office, everything's on the table.


-


My other concern besides Iran is this: All parties of the international communitity see our current situation and they are going to try to take full advantage of The Orangutan being in office while they can.



Kim Jong Un is continuing his nuclear program despite saying he's not. My concern with this scenario is Kim Jong Un forcing the US to take action or appear to take action (wink, wink). Then trump will try to rally the country around him.


-


And that's just it..... Foreign actors giving trump an opportunity to "appear" to be strong and thereby, rally Americans around him because of faux patriotism in his re-election bid.


-


This is a risky strategy but that's never stopped him before. And it won't now.


Totally agree.
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Reply #457 posted 05/09/19 11:14am

DiminutiveRock
er

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poppys said:

^^ Agree. Trump and Bolton together are a match made in hell.


Bolton is scarry. Seems all the reasonable heads have left that toxic environment called the White House.



Bottom line - Mueller NEEDS to testify.

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #458 posted 05/09/19 12:07pm

RodeoSchro

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benni said:

poppys said:


Republican led Senate Intelligence Committee, now there's an oxymoron. We know those questions wil be a nerf ball toss. disbelief


I heard someone say earlier that they are wondering if this is some kind of set up between the Republicans and Trump to shape the narrative, before the House can get him in front of them.



Maybe, but I doubt it.

I've heard lots of people say that there must be irrefutable evidence that serial adulterer Donald J. Trump, Jr. lied to the Senate when he testified. And, I've read on news sites that the subpoena is evidence that while Mueller may be done investigating Trump/Russia, the Senate is not.

Man, I hope that's true. It would be the biggest surprise of my life - and I'd probably need a gallon of hair paint to cover up all the gray hair such a surprise would cause - but WOW would it be good news. It would help restore some faith in Republicans.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #459 posted 05/09/19 1:34pm

poppys

realclearpolitics.com

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters at her weekly press conference on Thursday that the showdown between congressional Democrats and the Trump administration has become a "constitutional crisis," but she is not going to rush into launching impeachment proceedings before investigations are complete.

"We have investigations that will give us facts and the truth," Pelosi said. "This is not about Congress or any committee of Congress. It’s about the American people and their right to know and their election that is at stake and that a foreign government intervened in our election and the president thinks it is a laughing matter."

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Reply #460 posted 05/09/19 1:57pm

RodeoSchro

avatar

ESSENTIALLY no obstruction? LMFAO, OK!

From unrepentant serial adulterer Donald J. Trump today:

No collusion, and essentially no obstruction. Of course a lot of people say, "How can you obstruct when there was no crime? When there was no collusion, how can you possibly obstruct?"

So now it's not "NO OBSTRUCTION!" It's "ESSENTIALLY no obstruction".

I can't wait for some radical right-wing Republican Org wannabe lawyer to explain "essentially" to all of us in such a way that proves "essentially" means "none at all".

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Reply #461 posted 05/09/19 2:15pm

poppys

"How can you obstruct when there was no crime? When there was no collusion, how can you possibly obstruct?"

^^ Talking point. Some on this thread have been saying that multiple times, trying to get the spaghetti to stick. That and coup recently made a comeback too. Like it's even a thing.

Trump talks to Sean Hannity every night.


[Edited 5/9/19 18:29pm]

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Reply #462 posted 05/09/19 5:52pm

benni

avatar

According to a CNN poll, only 24% of Americans say they have read any of Mueller's report, 75% have opted not to read the 448-page document, and just 3% report having read the entire thing.


That's like... eek

So there is now a Mueller Book Club:


https://www.muellerbookclub.com/

[Edited 5/9/19 17:53pm]

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Reply #463 posted 05/10/19 3:51am

DiminutiveRock
er

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benni said:

According to a CNN poll, only 24% of Americans say they have read any of Mueller's report, 75% have opted not to read the 448-page document, and just 3% report having read the entire thing.


That's like... eek

So there is now a Mueller Book Club:


https://www.muellerbookclub.com/

[Edited 5/9/19 17:53pm]



YOu'd think it wold be be on the NYT Bestseller Non-Fiction list

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #464 posted 05/10/19 6:25am

poppys

DiminutiveRocker said:

benni said:

According to a CNN poll, only 24% of Americans say they have read any of Mueller's report, 75% have opted not to read the 448-page document, and just 3% report having read the entire thing.


That's like... eek

So there is now a Mueller Book Club:


https://www.muellerbookclub.com/



YOu'd think it wold be be on the NYT Bestseller Non-Fiction list


The scary word there is opted not to read any of it. Yeah, why read? We have a President that does not read and he gets over bigtime.

The book club idea is a good one. At least it shows children and young people that some adults think reading is still important.

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Reply #465 posted 05/10/19 6:34am

poppys

Barr is feeling very secure in his role as Satan's new right hand.

nbcnews.com

Barr jokes about contempt vote against him at farewell ceremony for Rod Rosenstein

The deputy attorney general, who supervised special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation, steps down on Saturday.

"In those days, the deputy job was a lot different. But I'll tell you now, the attorney general job is a lot different also. This must be a record, of an attorney general being proposed for contempt within 100 days of taking office," Barr said with a smile.


Even FOX News says Barr lied to Congress.

Fox News' Andrew Napolitano concludes Barr deceived Congress

Fox News legal analyst Andrew Napolitano isn't holding back on Attorney General William Barr, accusing him of deceiving Congress and engaging in "foolish" and "insulting" behavior.



And here's the kicker.

William Barr’s Legal Ideas Would Have Let Richard Nixon Off the Hook, Too

https://www.thedailybeast.com/attorney-general-william-barrs-legal-ideas-would-have-let-richard-nixon-off-the-hook-too


[Edited 5/10/19 6:45am]

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Reply #466 posted 05/10/19 3:49pm

RodeoSchro

avatar

Complete and total POS Roger Stone was investigated for a LOT more than he got indicted for.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/...index.html


The "FBI was investigating various crimes at different times, such as Stone for accessory after the fact, misprision of a felony, conspiracy, false statements, unauthorized access of a protected computer, obstruction of justice, witness tampering, wire fraud, attempt and conspiracy to commit wire fraud, and foreign contributions ban," Stone's attorneys wrote in a filing in his federal criminal case on Friday, citing search warrants that are still secret.

Stone is charged with seven counts of obstruction, witness tampering and lying to Congress and has pleaded not guilty.
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Reply #467 posted 05/10/19 5:19pm

benni

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Yeah, the report TOTALLY exonerates Trumpypoo neutral

So much so that Mueller will not not be testifying next week:


https://apnews.com/beb37061029b4189ab51e0033a091c27


Mueller won’t testify next week, House chairman says

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Reply #468 posted 05/11/19 6:03pm

2elijah

avatar

benni said:

Yeah, the report TOTALLY exonerates Trumpypoo neutral

So much so that Mueller will not not be testifying next week:


https://apnews.com/beb37061029b4189ab51e0033a091c27





Mueller won’t testify next week, House chairman says




I winder what Mueller is afraid of?
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Reply #469 posted 05/11/19 10:12pm

benni

avatar

2elijah said:

benni said:

Yeah, the report TOTALLY exonerates Trumpypoo neutral

So much so that Mueller will not not be testifying next week:


https://apnews.com/beb37061029b4189ab51e0033a091c27


Mueller won’t testify next week, House chairman says

I winder what Mueller is afraid of?


I don't think it's Mueller being afraid of anything. I think it is the DOJ and William Barr that is holding up the testimony. Mueller currently still works at the DOJ, and he can't testify if Barr says he can't, unless he is subpoenaed.

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Reply #470 posted 05/11/19 11:51pm

13cjk13

poppys said:

"How can you obstruct when there was no crime? When there was no collusion, how can you possibly obstruct?"

^^ Talking point. Some on this thread have been saying that multiple times, trying to get the spaghetti to stick. That and coup recently made a comeback too. Like it's even a thing.

Trump talks to Sean Hannity every night.


[Edited 5/9/19 18:29pm]

They love to vomit Fox "news" bullshit.

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost".
-Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #471 posted 05/12/19 5:03am

2elijah

avatar

benni said:



2elijah said:


benni said:

Yeah, the report TOTALLY exonerates Trumpypoo neutral

So much so that Mueller will not not be testifying next week:


https://apnews.com/beb37061029b4189ab51e0033a091c27





Mueller won’t testify next week, House chairman says





I winder what Mueller is afraid of?


I don't think it's Mueller being afraid of anything. I think it is the DOJ and William Barr that is holding up the testimony. Mueller currently still works at the DOJ, and he can't testify if Barr says he can't, unless he is subpoenaed.


Makes it all more suspicious.
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Reply #472 posted 05/12/19 10:19am

2freaky4church
1

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But Barr was put in contempt! lol

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #473 posted 05/13/19 5:53am

benni

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Someone made an excellent point this morning. They said that when Trump was trying to get the Mueller investigation shut down, that it doesn't matter whether Trump himself had committed crimes or not, that if he had managed to shut down the investigation it wouldn't have just protected Trump, it would have protected Russia, too. A part of that investigation was into Russia and whether Russia had interfered in our democratic processes here in America. Trump kept shouting "no collusion, no obstruction" and kept everyone focused on that, and it took the narrative off Russia interfering in our election.

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Reply #474 posted 05/13/19 6:00am

benni

avatar





Yeah, ending a report in this way, definitely sounds as though Mueller found absolutely no wrongdoing by the president.

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Reply #475 posted 05/13/19 6:04am

Musicslave

benni said:

Someone made an excellent point this morning. They said that when Trump was trying to get the Mueller investigation shut down, that it doesn't matter whether Trump himself had committed crimes or not, that if he had managed to shut down the investigation it wouldn't have just protected Trump, it would have protected Russia, too. A part of that investigation was into Russia and whether Russia had interfered in our democratic processes here in America. Trump kept shouting "no collusion, no obstruction" and kept everyone focused on that, and it took the narrative off Russia interfering in our election.

-

And that is what I call, "aiding and abetting" the enemy. trump just happened to benefit from their interference.

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Reply #476 posted 05/13/19 6:09am

benni

avatar

Musicslave said:

benni said:

Someone made an excellent point this morning. They said that when Trump was trying to get the Mueller investigation shut down, that it doesn't matter whether Trump himself had committed crimes or not, that if he had managed to shut down the investigation it wouldn't have just protected Trump, it would have protected Russia, too. A part of that investigation was into Russia and whether Russia had interfered in our democratic processes here in America. Trump kept shouting "no collusion, no obstruction" and kept everyone focused on that, and it took the narrative off Russia interfering in our election.

-

And that is what I call, "aiding and abetting" the enemy. trump just happened to benefit from their interference.



I was thinking the exact same thing.

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Reply #477 posted 05/18/19 6:39pm

benni

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Congressman Justin Amash (Republican) is calling for impeachment of Trump on Twitter:


Here are my principal conclusions:
1. Attorney General Barr has deliberately misrepresented Mueller’s report.
2. President Trump has engaged in impeachable conduct.
3. Partisanship has eroded our system of checks and balances.
4. Few members of Congress have read the report.

I offer these conclusions only after having read Mueller’s redacted report carefully and completely, having read or watched pertinent statements and testimony, and having discussed this matter with my staff, who thoroughly reviewed materials and provided me with further analysis.

In comparing Barr’s principal conclusions, congressional testimony, and other statements to Mueller’s report, it is clear that Barr intended to mislead the public about Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s analysis and findings.

Barr’s misrepresentations are significant but often subtle, frequently taking the form of sleight-of-hand qualifications or logical fallacies, which he hopes people will not notice.

Under our Constitution, the president “shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” While “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” is not defined, the context implies conduct that violates the public trust.

Contrary to Barr’s portrayal, Mueller’s report reveals that President Trump engaged in specific actions and a pattern of behavior that meet the threshold for impeachment.

In fact, Mueller’s report identifies multiple examples of conduct satisfying all the elements of obstruction of justice, and undoubtedly any person who is not the president of the United States would be indicted based on such evidence.

Impeachment, which is a special form of indictment, does not even require probable cause that a crime (e.g., obstruction of justice) has been committed; it simply requires a finding that an official has engaged in careless, abusive, corrupt, or otherwise dishonorable conduct.

While impeachment should be undertaken only in extraordinary circumstances, the risk we face in an environment of extreme partisanship is not that Congress will employ it as a remedy too often but rather that Congress will employ it so rarely that it cannot deter misconduct.

Our system of checks and balances relies on each branch’s jealously guarding its powers and upholding its duties under our Constitution. When loyalty to a political party or to an individual trumps loyalty to the Constitution, the Rule of Law—the foundation of liberty—crumbles.

We’ve witnessed members of Congress from both parties shift their views 180 degrees—on the importance of character, on the principles of obstruction of justice—depending on whether they’re discussing Bill Clinton or Donald Trump.

Few members of Congress even read Mueller’s report; their minds were made up based on partisan affiliation—and it showed, with representatives and senators from both parties issuing definitive statements on the 448-page report’s conclusions within just hours of its release.

America’s institutions depend on officials to uphold both the rules and spirit of our constitutional system even when to do so is personally inconvenient or yields a politically unfavorable outcome. Our Constitution is brilliant and awesome; it deserves a government to match it.
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Reply #478 posted 05/18/19 6:54pm

poppys

benni said:

Congressman Justin Amash (Republican) is calling for impeachment of Trump on Twitter:


Here are my principal conclusions:
1. Attorney General Barr has deliberately misrepresented Mueller’s report.
2. President Trump has engaged in impeachable conduct.
3. Partisanship has eroded our system of checks and balances.
4. Few members of Congress have read the report.

I offer these conclusions only after having read Mueller’s redacted report carefully and completely, having read or watched pertinent statements and testimony, and having discussed this matter with my staff, who thoroughly reviewed materials and provided me with further analysis.

In comparing Barr’s principal conclusions, congressional testimony, and other statements to Mueller’s report, it is clear that Barr intended to mislead the public about Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s analysis and findings.

Barr’s misrepresentations are significant but often subtle, frequently taking the form of sleight-of-hand qualifications or logical fallacies, which he hopes people will not notice.

Under our Constitution, the president “shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” While “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” is not defined, the context implies conduct that violates the public trust.

Contrary to Barr’s portrayal, Mueller’s report reveals that President Trump engaged in specific actions and a pattern of behavior that meet the threshold for impeachment.

In fact, Mueller’s report identifies multiple examples of conduct satisfying all the elements of obstruction of justice, and undoubtedly any person who is not the president of the United States would be indicted based on such evidence.

Impeachment, which is a special form of indictment, does not even require probable cause that a crime (e.g., obstruction of justice) has been committed; it simply requires a finding that an official has engaged in careless, abusive, corrupt, or otherwise dishonorable conduct.

While impeachment should be undertaken only in extraordinary circumstances, the risk we face in an environment of extreme partisanship is not that Congress will employ it as a remedy too often but rather that Congress will employ it so rarely that it cannot deter misconduct.

Our system of checks and balances relies on each branch’s jealously guarding its powers and upholding its duties under our Constitution. When loyalty to a political party or to an individual trumps loyalty to the Constitution, the Rule of Law—the foundation of liberty—crumbles.

We’ve witnessed members of Congress from both parties shift their views 180 degrees—on the importance of character, on the principles of obstruction of justice—depending on whether they’re discussing Bill Clinton or Donald Trump.

Few members of Congress even read Mueller’s report; their minds were made up based on partisan affiliation—and it showed, with representatives and senators from both parties issuing definitive statements on the 448-page report’s conclusions within just hours of its release.

America’s institutions depend on officials to uphold both the rules and spirit of our constitutional system even when to do so is personally inconvenient or yields a politically unfavorable outcome. Our Constitution is brilliant and awesome; it deserves a government to match it.


While impeachment should be undertaken only in extraordinary circumstances, the risk we face in an environment of extreme partisanship is not that Congress will employ it as a remedy too often but rather that Congress will employ it so rarely that it cannot deter misconduct.

All good stuff - This is the one that really gets me. Trump has undermined the office so much, if something is not done, others will follow in his villainous footsteps.

Barr is nothing but a Trump shill. He isn't even trying to hide what a prick he is either. Rubbing it in and smirking.


WASHINGTON (AP) — Attorney General William Barr tried out a little contempt humor on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, with interesting results.

The setting was the National Peace Officers Memorial Day service Wednesday at the U.S. Capitol. Barr and Pelosi were in the crowd waiting for President Donald Trump to arrive.

Barr approached Pelosi, shook her hand and said loud enough to be overheard, “Madam Speaker, did you bring your handcuffs?” That’s a reference to Barr’s refusal to comply with congressional subpoenas related to special counsel Robert Mueller’s report.

A smiling Pelosi let Barr know the House Sergeant at Arms was present at the ceremony, should any arrest be necessary, according to a person who witnessed the exchange and described it on the condition of anonymity. Barr chuckled and walked away, this person said.

[Edited 5/18/19 18:56pm]

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Reply #479 posted 05/19/19 7:04am

OnlyNDaUsa

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the keft is funny... haha Keft...that was a typo but it fits... is so mad that trump did not collude and did not break the law... But but he asked someone to do something... so he thought about conspiring to plan to... to what? Stonewall? (which is NOT obstruction) (and remember as is always the case...ALWAYS... anyone who was ever ordered to testify could have always just refused to speak. And if held in contempt. That is better than a prejury trap)

Oh he asked someone to fire someone? and was told what? LOL


all these straws the left...i mean Keft is grasping are going to end up in the sea of your own tears!

"Democratic Socialism" just 2 words
But if Sanders gets elected be the only words heard...
...
Be happy Ur Not in the RED (Yet)
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