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Reply #90 posted 05/13/19 8:23am

RodeoSchro

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^Agreed.

EDIT: LOL, this post started a new page. I am agreeing with LazyCrockett, not the headers above.

.

[Edited 5/13/19 8:23am]

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Reply #91 posted 05/13/19 9:23am

poppys

lazycrockett said:

^Why too early to care about polling, haven't even had a debate yet.


I also agree. But I think he meant way too early.

As we all know anyway, polling is just busy work job justification for many in the news biz. L@@k at what they got wrong last time around.

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Reply #92 posted 05/13/19 9:39am

jaawwnn

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Not being down on him for no reason here but Biden is really saying terrible stuff, "a middle ground" on climate change (you already have to find a middle ground to get something passed, a middle of a middle will be way to the right), no to the very popular single-payer, nevermind his handsy around women history - he seems to be completely running on "remember Obama?".

He could maybe beat Trump (it's not like Trump is popular) but he'll try and bring back business as usual and your country, indeed the entire world, is way beyond that.

I'm just looking in from outside and obviously i'm calling on you guys to support Sanders (who I know could only achieve so much with both parties pitted against him) but even if you don't, you can do better than Biden.

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Reply #93 posted 05/13/19 9:50am

poppys

jaawwnn said:

Not being down on him for no reason here but Biden is really saying terrible stuff, "a middle ground" on climate change (you already have to find a middle ground to get something passed, a middle of a middle will be way to the right), no to the very popular single-payer, nevermind his handsy around women history - he seems to be completely running on "remember Obama?".

He could maybe beat Trump (it's not like Trump is popular) but he'll try and bring back business as usual and your country, indeed the entire world, is way beyond that.

I'm just looking in from outside and obviously i'm calling on you guys to support Sanders (who I know could only achieve so much with both parties pitted against him) but even if you don't, you can do better than Biden.


You make some good points. The fact that we have to get orangetrash out before any other issue lowers the bar.

Bernie could just suck it up and actually become a Democrat. That's who he is depending on to elect him anyway. Foot shooter.

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Reply #94 posted 05/13/19 11:28am

jaawwnn

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poppys said:


You make some good points. The fact that we have to get orangetrash out before any other issue lowers the bar.

Bernie could just suck it up and actually become a Democrat. That's who he is depending on to elect him anyway. Foot shooter.


The hill arguing that's his selling point:

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/432881-bernie-sanders-biggest-appeal-hes-not-a-democrat

So when party leaders said, “We are good with a Heritage Foundation, Mitt Romney-backed private insurance health care,” Sanders didn’t fall in line. When the party said, that “Don’t ask, don’t tell” and the Defense of Marriage Act were political necessities, he didn’t fall in line. And when the sitting Democratic president went to bat for yet another big trade deal written by big business, Sanders didn’t play along. To the folks who brought us decades of neo-liberal Clintonism, including the disastrous campaign of Hillary Clinton, Sanders’s steadfastness seems to be a problem. To most of America, of course, this is a positive attribute.


at the same time, so many dems have followed his lead on healthcare and other issues that I wonder if he'd be more amenable to becoming a democrat at this point? I suppose he wouldn't be willing to compromise if (when?) asked so would probably be booted out quick enough. I don't especially know how it all works.

[Edited 5/13/19 11:37am]

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Reply #95 posted 05/13/19 12:40pm

benni

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And the crazy right are targeting Buttigieg. Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman think he is going to be the candidate to unseat Trump.


https://www.nbcnews.com/t...cna1000501

I also read a report that Wohl was being financed through the president to do these kinds of things, but there are no proof to those allegations yet. Apparently he is driving a really expensive car, promising a lot financial incentives to people are willing to go along with a smear campaign.


And Buttigieg has really handled the way Donald has tried to attack him so far, extremely well.

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Reply #96 posted 05/13/19 1:14pm

poppys

jaawwnn said:

poppys said:


You make some good points. The fact that we have to get orangetrash out before any other issue lowers the bar.

Bernie could just suck it up and actually become a Democrat. That's who he is depending on to elect him anyway. Foot shooter.


The hill arguing that's his selling point:

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/432881-bernie-sanders-biggest-appeal-hes-not-a-democrat

So when party leaders said, “We are good with a Heritage Foundation, Mitt Romney-backed private insurance health care,” Sanders didn’t fall in line. When the party said, that “Don’t ask, don’t tell” and the Defense of Marriage Act were political necessities, he didn’t fall in line. And when the sitting Democratic president went to bat for yet another big trade deal written by big business, Sanders didn’t play along. To the folks who brought us decades of neo-liberal Clintonism, including the disastrous campaign of Hillary Clinton, Sanders’s steadfastness seems to be a problem. To most of America, of course, this is a positive attribute.


at the same time, so many dems have followed his lead on healthcare and other issues that I wonder if he'd be more amenable to becoming a democrat at this point? I suppose he wouldn't be willing to compromise if (when?) asked so would probably be booted out quick enough. I don't especially know how it all works.


You always say that when we have this conversation. Here is the clusterf**k of primary voting rules. He needs to win the primary. In my state, I can't vote in the primary as an independent

www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/primary-types.aspx

He is by far not the first candidate ever to want socialized healthcare. Obama did the crappy hybrid because he knew he couldn't go all the way with it.

Bernie could switch. Who cares? He needs to win the majority to beat Trump. Period. That is goal #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 - infinity. This is crisis time, not what do we ideally want time. If he is nominated, he's the candidate. Democrats are a diverse bunch anyway. That's why they lose against the locksteps.

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Reply #97 posted 05/13/19 1:19pm

RodeoSchro

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poppys said:

jaawwnn said:


at the same time, so many dems have followed his lead on healthcare and other issues that I wonder if he'd be more amenable to becoming a democrat at this point? I suppose he wouldn't be willing to compromise if (when?) asked so would probably be booted out quick enough. I don't especially know how it all works.


You always say that when we have this conversation. Here is the clusterf**k of primary voting rules. He needs to win the primary. In my state, I can't vote in the primary as an independent

www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/primary-types.aspx

He is by far not the first candidate ever to want socialized healthcare. Obama did the crappy hybrid because he knew he couldn't go all the way with it.

Bernie could switch. Who cares? He needs to win the majority to beat Trump. Period. That is goal #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 - infinity. This is crisis time, not what do we ideally want time. If he is nominated, he's the candidate. Democrats are a diverse bunch anyway. That's why they lose against the locksteps.




At the risk of beatdeadhorse President Obama could have gone all the way with it.

He had a super majority in the Senate and a majority in the House for something like 57 working days in 2009. He could have done anything he and the Congress wanted to do - anything.

But he mistakenly believed that bipartisanship existed, and that the GOP would work with him.

It doesn't, and they never will.

Bipartisanship is D.E.A.D. as it relates to Republicans working with Democrats in government. And it has been dead in actuality for 20 years or so. The GOP does not, has not, and will not work with Democrats.

Any Democrat that thinks differently is not grounded in reality.

So, the lessons are: (1) do not expect the GOP to work together with you on ANYTHING; and (2) when you have power, use all of it, all the time.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #98 posted 05/13/19 2:07pm

jaawwnn

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poppys said:


You always say that when we have this conversation. Here is the clusterf**k of primary voting rules. He needs to win the primary. In my state, I can't vote in the primary as an independent

www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/primary-types.aspx

He is by far not the first candidate ever to want socialized healthcare. Obama did the crappy hybrid because he knew he couldn't go all the way with it.

Bernie could switch. Who cares? He needs to win the majority to beat Trump. Period. That is goal #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 - infinity. This is crisis time, not what do we ideally want time. If he is nominated, he's the candidate. Democrats are a diverse bunch anyway. That's why they lose against the locksteps.

I said it once before, I think you told me to google it so I gave up because I couldn't be bothered. I just mean is there a party whip in the US like in the UK and Ireland? Can you be kicked out for going against the whip? because clearly he would.

Based on your link there Bernie would need to win over the registered democrats in a lot of states but wouldn't need to be a democrat himself to do it? So it's more important that voters register as a democrat rather than he does, no?

Brass tacks though, if you simply want to beat Trump in a US election my money would be on Bernie over Biden.



RodeoSchro said:

At the risk of beatdeadhorse President Obama could have gone all the way with it.

He had a super majority in the Senate and a majority in the House for something like 57 working days in 2009. He could have done anything he and the Congress wanted to do - anything.

But he mistakenly believed that bipartisanship existed, and that the GOP would work with him.

It doesn't, and they never will.

Bipartisanship is D.E.A.D. as it relates to Republicans working with Democrats in government. And it has been dead in actuality for 20 years or so. The GOP does not, has not, and will not work with Democrats.

Any Democrat that thinks differently is not grounded in reality.

So, the lessons are: (1) do not expect the GOP to work together with you on ANYTHING; and (2) when you have power, use all of it, all the time.

Well said.






[Edited 5/13/19 14:12pm]

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Reply #99 posted 05/13/19 2:13pm

poppys

jaawwnn said:

poppys said:


You always say that when we have this conversation. Here is the clusterf**k of primary voting rules. He needs to win the primary. In my state, I can't vote in the primary as an independent

www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/primary-types.aspx

He is by far not the first candidate ever to want socialized healthcare. Obama did the crappy hybrid because he knew he couldn't go all the way with it.

Bernie could switch. Who cares? He needs to win the majority to beat Trump. Period. That is goal #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 - infinity. This is crisis time, not what do we ideally want time. If he is nominated, he's the candidate. Democrats are a diverse bunch anyway. That's why they lose against the locksteps.

I said it once before, I think you told me to google it so I gave up. I just mean is there a party whip in the US like in the UK and Ireland? Can you be kicked out for going against the whip? because clearly he would.

Brass tacks though, if you simply want to beat Trump in a US election my money would be on Bernie over Biden.


So, you kinda hafta have an opinion on what is possible here, if you care to find that out. Otherwise what is the point of placing bets?

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Reply #100 posted 05/13/19 2:16pm

poppys

jaawwnn said:

poppys said:

I said it once before, I think you told me to google it so I gave up because I couldn't be bothered. I just mean is there a party whip in the US like in the UK and Ireland? Can you be kicked out for going against the whip? because clearly he would.

Based on your link there Bernie would need to win over the registered democrats in a lot of states but wouldn't need to be a democrat himself to do it? So it's more important that voters register as a democrat rather than he does, no?

Brass tacks though, if you simply want to beat Trump in a US election my money would be on Bernie over Biden.



RodeoSchro said:

At the risk of beatdeadhorse President Obama could have gone all the way with it.

He had a super majority in the Senate and a majority in the House for something like 57 working days in 2009. He could have done anything he and the Congress wanted to do - anything.

But he mistakenly believed that bipartisanship existed, and that the GOP would work with him.

It doesn't, and they never will.

Bipartisanship is D.E.A.D. as it relates to Republicans working with Democrats in government. And it has been dead in actuality for 20 years or so. The GOP does not, has not, and will not work with Democrats.

Any Democrat that thinks differently is not grounded in reality.

So, the lessons are: (1) do not expect the GOP to work together with you on ANYTHING; and (2) when you have power, use all of it, all the time.

Well said.


Whatever. It is still a mistake to say Bernie was the first to think of it. He was not.

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Reply #101 posted 05/13/19 2:33pm

jaawwnn

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poppys said:

jaawwnn said:


Whatever. It is still a mistake to say Bernie was the first to think of it. He was not.

Whatever, you shouldn't care who thinks of it, you should care who gets it done. I agree with you that Obama thought he couldn't get what he wanted through - despite single payer being massively popular in your country - in retrospect he shouldn't have looked constantly for compromise with a party who doesn't give a damn about it when they are in charge. Hindsight is 20/20 though, hopefully lesson learned.


poppys said:

jaawwnn said:

I said it once before, I think you told me to google it so I gave up. I just mean is there a party whip in the US like in the UK and Ireland? Can you be kicked out for going against the whip? because clearly he would.

Brass tacks though, if you simply want to beat Trump in a US election my money would be on Bernie over Biden.


So, you kinda hafta have an opinion on what is possible here, if you care to find that out. Otherwise what is the point of placing bets?

I've been reading and reading and reading and I can't find a straight answer. If you are a registered democratic voter in a state with a closed primary can you vote for an independent to represent your party if you wish? Is there a law or rule of the party preventing this or just a normal way of doing things?

[Edited 5/13/19 14:35pm]

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Reply #102 posted 05/13/19 2:39pm

poppys

jaawwnn said:

poppys said:


So, you kinda hafta have an opinion on what is possible here, if you care to find that out. Otherwise what is the point of placing bets?

I've been reading and reading and reading and I can't find a straight answer. If you are a registered democratic voter in a state with a closed primary can you vote for an independent to represent your party if you wish? Is there a law or rule of the party preventing this or just a normal way of doing things?


You can vote in the Presidential, but not in the Primary. That's why I'm not a registered independent. The rules are all different state to state and it's wack. No wonder you can't figure it out.

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Reply #103 posted 05/13/19 2:43pm

jaawwnn

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poppys said:

jaawwnn said:

I've been reading and reading and reading and I can't find a straight answer. If you are a registered democratic voter in a state with a closed primary can you vote for an independent to represent your party if you wish? Is there a law or rule of the party preventing this or just a normal way of doing things?


You can vote in the Presidential, but not in the Primary. That's why I'm not a registered independent. The rules are all different state to state and it's wack. No wonder you can't figure it out.

But could you vote for an independent in the primary? Like, could I, a hypothetical member of the Democratic party, vote for Bernie Sanders to represent the Democratic party in the Presidential election even though he himself is not a member?





[Edited 5/13/19 14:44pm]

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Reply #104 posted 05/13/19 3:09pm

2freaky4church
1

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Bernie or bust. The only way the republic is saved.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #105 posted 05/13/19 3:11pm

poppys

jaawwnn said:

poppys said:


You can vote in the Presidential, but not in the Primary. That's why I'm not a registered independent. The rules are all different state to state and it's wack. No wonder you can't figure it out.

But could you vote for an independent in the primary? Like, could I, a hypothetical member of the Democratic party, vote for Bernie Sanders to represent the Democratic party in the Presidential election even though he himself is not a member?






You can't vote in the primary at all in closed states unless you vote in the party primary you registered in. So, you have to sit out the primary.

If Bernie gets the Dem primary this time, I will vote for him in the Presidential because he will have enough support to beat Trump.

Top-Two Primaries

California, Louisiana, Nebraska (for state elections) and Washington currently use a “top two” primary format. The “top two” format uses a common ballot, listing all candidates on the same ballot. In California and Louisiana, each candidate lists his or her party affiliation, whereas in Washington, each candidate is authorized to list a party “preference.” The top two vote getters in each race, regardless of party, advance to the general election. Advocates of the "top-two" format argue that it increases the likelihood of moderate candidates advancing to the general election ballot. Opponents maintain that it reduces voter choice by making it possible that two candidates of the same party face off in the general election. They also contend that it is tilted against minor parties who will face slim odds of earning one of only two spots on the general election ballot.

Top-Two Primary States

California

Nebraska (for nonpartisan legislative races only)

Louisiana

Washington



I'm in a Top-Two State. In my case, since I live in a Republican (red) State, there is a good chance both candidates will be Repubs. California is the opposite, thank god. They are a Democratic (blue) State. That all counts in the Electoral College General Election because we don't have a one person, one vote system. It's ridiculous.

[Edited 5/13/19 15:47pm]

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Reply #106 posted 05/13/19 4:11pm

RodeoSchro

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Interesting chart. The pollster asked "Who are you considering, and who are you NOT considering?"

Bernie Sanders; Bill DeBlasio (who hasn't even declared); and Tulsi Gabbard lead the "I'm not considering this person" category.

Elizabeth Warren looks to be the candidate right now with the most support and the least non-support. Then it's Pete Buttigieg and Kamala Harris.

https://www.dailykos.com/...who-is-NOT


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Reply #107 posted 05/13/19 4:47pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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RodeoSchro said:

Interesting chart. The pollster asked "Who are you considering, and who are you NOT considering?"

Bernie Sanders; Bill DeBlasio (who hasn't even declared); and Tulsi Gabbard lead the "I'm not considering this person" category.

Elizabeth Warren looks to be the candidate right now with the most support and the least non-support. Then it's Pete Buttigieg and Kamala Harris.

https://www.dailykos.com/...who-is-NOT




Yeah but that’s because voters don’t know anyone but the Vice President Bernie and Warren. This only highlights the problem mentioned at the beginning of the thread.
As others have said, the primaries will change the landscape considerably.
President Trump is a disgusting piece of shit.
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Reply #108 posted 05/13/19 6:10pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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Tulsi Gabbard just sat with Joe Rogan for a couple of hours if anyone is interested in seeing what she’s about.
Good for her. Joe has a massive and pretty diverse audience.

President Trump is a disgusting piece of shit.
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Reply #109 posted 05/14/19 12:51pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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After listening to Tulsi for a while, I find her kinda off-putting. She is sharp, but a politician has to be able to charm you as he/she fucks over. That’s diplomacy. She lacks that necessary charm. I can see her cackling as she fucks you over. That’s not a good image for someone running for President.
[Edited 5/14/19 12:52pm]
President Trump is a disgusting piece of shit.
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Reply #110 posted 05/17/19 3:31pm

Lovejunky

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

After listening to Tulsi for a while, I find her kinda off-putting. She is sharp, but a politician has to be able to charm you as he/she fucks over. That’s diplomacy. She lacks that necessary charm. I can see her cackling as she fucks you over. That’s not a good image for someone running for President. [Edited 5/14/19 12:52pm]

er..you like being Charmed before you are raped ????

I suppose given the history of Amrican Politics, its IMPOSSIBLE to believe that there may actually be a politician who WONT FUCK YOU OVER .

“LOVE IS THE MASTERPLAN”
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