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Thread started 02/04/19 8:25am

RodeoSchro

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Raising taxes on the wealthy now overwhelmingly popular


Good news! The vast majority of Americans are in favor of raising taxes on the wealthy. All sorts of plans are out there but most revolve around raising taxes on income in excess of $4 million annually or so.

WE NEED THIS. If we don't address our fiscal disaster and soon, then I'm afraid we're going to face a debt crisis that will imperil our country. We've loaded up on cheap debt for 10 years now, and its been almost 20 years since we had a budget surplus.

When - not if, but WHEN - interest rates rise to previously-seen levels, we are going to have interest payments that could be unsustainable. When asked about that during he 2016 campaign, Donald Trump said, "No problem, we can just default on our debt and renegotiate".

That may be how he did business in the private sector (and in fact IS how he did business in the private sector) but that won't fly in the public sector. A default on our debt would ultimately put the United States of America in Third-World status, because no one would buy our debt. We'd have to slash federal funding so much that even our military would suffer greatly, leaving us vulnerable to all sorts of attacks.

BUT WE CAN FIX THIS. Heck, we had one golden chance 19 years ago.

When George W. Bush took office in January 2001, our federal debt was $5.7 trillion. We were coming off a record budget surplus because and only because Bill Clinton had raised the top tax rate in 1994 and the projected budget surpluses over the next 10 years were $5.6 trillion. In theory, with just a little revenue tweaking/funding cuts we could have been debt-free 8 years ago.

We even had a budget surplus in FY 2001, which was a year in which we were in a recession. Remember that if you ever get to feeling down about things. The United States of America used to have a tax system so strong that it even produced a budget surplus during a recession.

We did it before, we can do it again.

Please help those who are pushing for a higher maximum tax rate. And please remind those that when we get it, we don't use it for additional spending. We use those funds to pay down on our national debt.

If you want to make America great again, getting her out of debt is the way to do it.

Here is an old Daily Kos article from back when we were so close to getting out of debt:

https://www.dailykos.net/...tml#001390

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #1 posted 02/04/19 11:29am

sonshine

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If only. My son's childhood friend had a parent who was a successful business owner white collar type. Whenever the subject of raising taxes on the wealthy came up he became irate. He made the comment once that he would slash jobs if that happened and a lot of people would be unemployed. 🙄 I learned to avoid political talk around him as I really liked the kid and didn't want my opinion of his dad to spoil it Lol
[Edited 2/4/19 11:29am]
It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN
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Reply #2 posted 02/04/19 12:01pm

poppys

Yeah - trickle down just may just be the biggest lie of all.

Lassiez les bon temps rouler!
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Reply #3 posted 02/04/19 12:05pm

maplenpg

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I'm assuming you've seen this, but in case you haven't...


If love is the answer, what was the question? - Carter USM.
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Reply #4 posted 02/04/19 1:06pm

poppys

^^ thumbs up! Wow, Winnie Byanyima is dynamite. I'd elect her for President.

Lassiez les bon temps rouler!
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Reply #5 posted 02/04/19 2:41pm

RodeoSchro

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sonshine said:

If only. My son's childhood friend had a parent who was a successful business owner white collar type. Whenever the subject of raising taxes on the wealthy came up he became irate. He made the comment once that he would slash jobs if that happened and a lot of people would be unemployed. 🙄 I learned to avoid political talk around him as I really liked the kid and didn't want my opinion of his dad to spoil it Lol [Edited 2/4/19 11:29am]



Guess what? Your son's childhood friend's parent (who we'll refer to as "Goober" from here on, as "your son's childhood friend's parent" is too much to type and let's be honest - as you will soon see, he is a Goober) is LYING.

If Goober's taxes were raised, he'd try to make that up with more income. There is no possible way he could make out better if he started firing employees. He'd lose productivity/sales far in excess of the increased taxes he'd have to pay. Every single successful businessperson in the world knows that.

It's just like with the ACA. All the Fox News Scare Mongers were reporting that thousands of doctors would quit rather than make less money. We wouldn't be able to find any doctors to save us! Well, guess how many doctors quit practicing medicine because of the enactment of the ACA?

Zero.

But what really matters is how much Goober makes. All the proposals I've seen don't do anything to personal tax rates until one's income is $4,000,000 or more. So unless Goober is in the top 1% of the top 1%, this wouldn't affect him.

What burns me up about goobers like Goober is that he amassed whatever wealth he has because we cut taxes on the rich and ran up a giant deficit because of that. For Goober to discount this tells me that Goober is a very selfish person.

The next time you see Goober, ask him which side of the jersey he plays for. Goober will probably say, "Huh? Wha?" so explain it like this:

Our men's Olympic basketball team members have a jersey with "USA" on the front and their name on the back. So which side of the jersey is Goober playing for?

Screw the Goobers of the world. Call their bluff. Raise taxes. Theyaren't going to fire the employees on whose backs their wealth was created. They'll either settle for a little less after-tax profit, or they'll find new ways to increase sales and productivity.

But THEY WILL NOT FIRE EMPLOYEES. Any Goober that tells you he will is either a liar, or inherited the business from his parents and actually has no idea how money is made.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #6 posted 02/04/19 2:51pm

RodeoSchro

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maplenpg said:

I'm assuming you've seen this, but in case you haven't...




Interesting, thanks.

The guy was right on point.

For the most part, the lady was not on the same point I'm on. And by the way, that dude who ran Yahoo? What the hell has Yahoo done financially other than bleed money?

Anyway, the only thing she said that is relevant to my point is "You're counting the wrong thing".

The guy, on the other hand, is on the same page as me. He is 100% right, too.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #7 posted 02/05/19 2:59am

maplenpg

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RodeoSchro said:

maplenpg said:

I'm assuming you've seen this, but in case you haven't...





Interesting, thanks.

The guy was right on point.

For the most part, the lady was not on the same point I'm on. And by the way, that dude who ran Yahoo? What the hell has Yahoo done financially other than bleed money?

Anyway, the only thing she said that is relevant to my point is "You're counting the wrong thing".

The guy, on the other hand, is on the same page as me. He is 100% right, too.

You might enjoy this article in the Guardian about Bregman's thoughts. Here is the whole discussion from Davos too, there are some great points made although I particularly enjoy what Jane Goodall has to say. Personally I think it seems obvious to tax the extra wealthy, but that we all know it will not happen within our lifetime (sorry, but it won't). But we can do our bit, as Jane Goodall says, if we consider the consequences of our actions and who we are supporting in our daily choices. On a personal note, Amazon is a company we should actively avoid IMO. They have avoided paying taxes in the UK with great gusto (I'm guessing this probably is the same with each country they are in). To put it into perspective, Amazon has paid £61.7 million UK taxes in the last 20 years, whereas the struggling Marks and Spencer paid £65.4 million last year alone, just one year they paid more than Amazon has in 20 (source). Lets guess which business is thriving and which is struggling? And it's not like our country doesn't need the tax with everything going on at the min. You might agree more with Byanyima at 27.20.


[Edited 2/5/19 3:01am]

If love is the answer, what was the question? - Carter USM.
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Reply #8 posted 02/05/19 4:19am

jaawwnn

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Of course it's overwhelmingly popular, because the overwhelming amount of people will benefit from it. I imagine the main arguments against it will


1) be the usual blathering about the profit motive, as if the world needs any people to be billionaires and no one likes the idea of being a millionaire to the point where they'll give up working.

2) The government cannot be trusted with your money but us billionaires can. rolleyes

3) Some incredibly wonky theories involving thousands of graphs that no one can follow but pretty much leave things the way they are.

4) Taxing is taking away of FREEDOM to spend MY money and FREEDOM is what America is about. FREEDOM.


It'll be a hard fight though, and it'll probably involve some serious trade sanctions when all the wealthy see it's for real and try and move everything to tax havens. I won't pretend I have all the answers.

[Edited 2/5/19 4:22am]

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Reply #9 posted 02/05/19 4:24am

maplenpg

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jaawwnn said:

Of course it's overwhelmingly popular, because the overwhelming amount of people will benefit from it. I imagine the main arguments against it will


1) be the usual blathering about the profit motive, as if the world needs any people to be billionaires and no one likes the idea of being a millionaire to the point where they'll give up working.

2) The government cannot be trusted with your money but us billionaires can. rolleyes

3) Some incredibly wonky theories involving thousands of graphs that no one can follow but pretty much leave things the way they are.

4) Taxing is taking away of FREEDOM to spend MY money and FREEDOM is what America is about. FREEDOM.


It'll be a hard fight though, and it'll probably involve some serious trade sanctions when all the wealthy see it's for real and try and move everything to tax havens. I won't pretend I have all the answers.

[Edited 2/5/19 4:22am]

Moving everything to tax havens should be illegal, or at least laws should be tightened to try and make it as difficult as possible.

If love is the answer, what was the question? - Carter USM.
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Reply #10 posted 02/05/19 4:25am

maplenpg

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I thought this tweet was thought-provoking:

https://twitter.com/Natha...3953777664

If love is the answer, what was the question? - Carter USM.
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Reply #11 posted 02/05/19 9:17am

RodeoSchro

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maplenpg said:

jaawwnn said:

Of course it's overwhelmingly popular, because the overwhelming amount of people will benefit from it. I imagine the main arguments against it will


1) be the usual blathering about the profit motive, as if the world needs any people to be billionaires and no one likes the idea of being a millionaire to the point where they'll give up working.

2) The government cannot be trusted with your money but us billionaires can. rolleyes

3) Some incredibly wonky theories involving thousands of graphs that no one can follow but pretty much leave things the way they are.

4) Taxing is taking away of FREEDOM to spend MY money and FREEDOM is what America is about. FREEDOM.


It'll be a hard fight though, and it'll probably involve some serious trade sanctions when all the wealthy see it's for real and try and move everything to tax havens. I won't pretend I have all the answers.

[Edited 2/5/19 4:22am]

Moving everything to tax havens should be illegal, or at least laws should be tightened to try and make it as difficult as possible.




I wouldn't worry too much about tax havens. We had more of them back when Clinton raised the top rate and we still massively increased tax revenues.

The best thing IMO is raise the taxes and then if there's some tax dodge to go after, go after it hard.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #12 posted 02/05/19 10:08am

ColAngus

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i hope you are right on this ...

but i fear you are not ... because

the US is not a democracy and is run by the rich now ...

Colonel Angus may be smelly. colonel angus may be a little rough . but deep down ... Colonel angus is very sweet.
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Reply #13 posted 02/05/19 1:07pm

RodeoSchro

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ColAngus said:

i hope you are right on this ...

but i fear you are not ... because

the US is not a democracy and is run by the rich now ...




We were the same in 1993, and we got it done then. Have faith and more importantly - reach out to your Senators and Congressional representative and DEMAND they do this. Tell them as often as you can. They will listen, trust me.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #14 posted 02/05/19 6:13pm

MoBettaBliss

RodeoSchro said:

sonshine said:

If only. My son's childhood friend had a parent who was a successful business owner white collar type. Whenever the subject of raising taxes on the wealthy came up he became irate. He made the comment once that he would slash jobs if that happened and a lot of people would be unemployed. 🙄 I learned to avoid political talk around him as I really liked the kid and didn't want my opinion of his dad to spoil it Lol [Edited 2/4/19 11:29am]



Guess what? Your son's childhood friend's parent (who we'll refer to as "Goober" from here on, as "your son's childhood friend's parent" is too much to type and let's be honest - as you will soon see, he is a Goober)



lol lol lol

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