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Reply #240 posted 03/01/19 3:18pm

IanRG

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

If we really cared about the people of Cuba, North Korea, Iran or Venezuela we would eliminate all sanctions. It’s all just political bullshit. We deal regularly with countries accused of far worse but we turn a blind eye because it suits us.

.

Completely agree. It is either about seeking to change a government to one that will allow the US and undue economic advantage or revenge for something from the past. It is never about care for people.

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Reply #241 posted 03/03/19 7:43am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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Here is a video I stumbled across that has some interesting numbers and reasons why Venezuela is where it is.
I think I learned something. I know this video spins conservative but I couldn’t argue with what he’s saying.

President Trump is a disgusting piece of shit.
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Reply #242 posted 03/03/19 4:28pm

hausofmoi7

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The price of oil fell 50%.
But the sanctions are taking over 40% of what is left over after the price drop.
Whatever the situation is it would be far less worse if the sanctions were lifted.
40% less worse.

Unlike the price of oil sanctions can be changed or just lifted.
But the U.S won’t because thier economy is backed by worthless money that has no value or resources behind it.

Rich people in the west beating up on Venezuela’s lower classes.
But it’s thier oil not yours though.
Why is Venezuela’s social and community infrastructure of so much concern in the west?
Because Western capitalism is built off other countries resources.
So I can see why people in the west have a such a visceral and angry reaction to Venezuela’s social and community building agenda.
spending in Venezuela directly affects elites in the west.
The same elite talking points are being rehashed and used to beat up on Venezuela’s lower classes.
I.E the price of wages, healthcare and access to education are all things the west want Venezuela to get rid of so they can be more competitive and have more money to give to elites in the west.
Gold plated toilets don’t come cheap.

The U.S needs to diversify its economy.
They just can’t keep killing people to keep thier currency afloat.





.
[Edited 3/3/19 17:27pm]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #243 posted 03/03/19 6:28pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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Never knew Venzuela had the worlds largest reserves or oil. Boy they fucked that up!

It’s beautiful how they want to give the people education and medical care, and if it wasn’t for corruption and incompetence they should have been able to pull it off. But somehow they are fucking up. I’m sure someone there is getting filthy rich right now screwing everyone over.
[Edited 3/3/19 18:35pm]
President Trump is a disgusting piece of shit.
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Reply #244 posted 03/03/19 6:56pm

hausofmoi7

avatar

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Never knew Venzuela had the worlds largest reserves or oil. Boy they fucked that up!

It’s beautiful how they want to give the people education and medical care, and if it wasn’t for corruption and incompetence they should have been able to pull it off. But somehow they are fucking up. I’m sure someone there is getting filthy rich right now screwing everyone over.
[Edited 3/3/19 18:35pm]


U.S and Europe are holding onto the profits Venezuela made from oil sales.
Britain just last week denied Venezuela withdrawing over billions of gold reserves.
Gold which Venezuela earned from oil sales.
Gold which ironically probably was taken from Venezuela which Britain then used
to sell sell back to Venezuela in exchange for thier oil.
Britain got very rich off Venezuela’s oil.
Yes, Venezuela has an oligarchy that actually oppose the current socialist government.


.
[Edited 3/3/19 19:04pm]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #245 posted 03/03/19 7:12pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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hausofmoi7 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Never knew Venzuela had the worlds largest reserves or oil. Boy they fucked that up!

It’s beautiful how they want to give the people education and medical care, and if it wasn’t for corruption and incompetence they should have been able to pull it off. But somehow they are fucking up. I’m sure someone there is getting filthy rich right now screwing everyone over.
[Edited 3/3/19 18:35pm]


U.S and Europe are holding onto the profits Venezuela made from oil sales.
Britain just last week denied Venezuela withdrawing over billions of gold reserves.
Gold which Venezuela earned from oil sales.
Gold which ironically probably was taken from Venezuela which Britain then used
to sell sell back to Venezuela in exchange for thier oil.
Britain got very rich off Venezuela’s oil.
Yes, Venezuela has an oligarchy that actually oppose the current socialist government.


.
[Edited 3/3/19 19:04pm]

Yeah they did the same thing to Iran. We are still fucking with Iran. But a little blame has to to go to the countries themselves. It’s true they were not set up for the management and technical aspects of oil productions and all the money that they reaped from it. There is a supposed curse that third word countries have when it comes to such huge unexpected windfalls. Like the lottery winners who blow all their money and end up homeless after they blow it all.
President Trump is a disgusting piece of shit.
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Reply #246 posted 03/03/19 8:12pm

hausofmoi7

avatar

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

hausofmoi7 said:



U.S and Europe are holding onto the profits Venezuela made from oil sales.
Britain just last week denied Venezuela withdrawing over billions of gold reserves.
Gold which Venezuela earned from oil sales.
Gold which ironically probably was taken from Venezuela which Britain then used
to sell sell back to Venezuela in exchange for thier oil.
Britain got very rich off Venezuela’s oil.
Yes, Venezuela has an oligarchy that actually oppose the current socialist government.


.
[Edited 3/3/19 19:04pm]

Yeah they did the same thing to Iran. We are still fucking with Iran. But a little blame has to to go to the countries themselves. It’s true they were not set up for the management and technical aspects of oil productions and all the money that they reaped from it. There is a supposed curse that third word countries have when it comes to such huge unexpected windfalls. Like the lottery winners who blow all their money and end up homeless after they blow it all.

Except they didn’t blow it all.
They had it stolen from them and sanctioned.
Also they didn’t win anything. The earned it all through sales of thier natural resources.

The narrative that socialism is to blame is not true.
Its being sabotaged.


U.S. successfully lobbies Bank of England to block Maduro’s access to $1.2 billion in Venezuelan gold reserves
In a powerful move, top U.S. officials, led by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, have successfully lobbied England to deny Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro access to Venezuela's financial reserves. Venezuela's foreign reserves total $8 billion, $1.2 billion of which is stored with the Bank of England.

Maduro is locked in a massive power struggle with challenger Juan Guaido, the National Assembly leader, who the US, UK and other countries recognize as the legitimate leader of Venezuela. At the same time the US and UK are restricting Maduro's access to capital, they are reportedly working to shuttle Venezuelan assets stored overseas to Guaido.

No officials from Venezuela, the UK or the US will comment on the record as Maduro's economic and political control hangs in the balance.


https://www.theblockcrypt...-reserves/

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[Edited 3/3/19 21:06pm]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #247 posted 03/03/19 9:17pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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^
Yeah they haven’t blown it all that is correct. They have all the oil and they can get loans from it I suppose as they are good for it. But they blew it in negotiations and policy and diplomacy and management and all that good stuff. They money/oil is all there held up by sanctions. They will be fine eventually but they do absolutely need better leadership. And they need bigger nations like the US to stop trying to keep screwing them.
President Trump is a disgusting piece of shit.
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Reply #248 posted 03/04/19 12:33am

hausofmoi7

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

^
Yeah they haven’t blown it all that is correct. They have all the oil and they can get loans from it I suppose as they are good for it. But they blew it in negotiations and policy and diplomacy and management and all that good stuff. They money/oil is all there held up by sanctions. They will be fine eventually but they do absolutely need better leadership. And they need bigger nations like the US to stop trying to keep screwing them.

They will be fine if the u.s don’t overthrow the government they elected and privatise and sell off their resources.

Venezuela uses the Scandinavian model.
I find it interesting that globally Scandinavia is viewed as a success and thier socialism is viewed as a necessary evolution.
But Venezuela’s socialism is viewed as a waste of money.

In Australia social investments is only done in white areas.
It is considered a waste of money to invest in people who are not white Australians or invest in areas where there are not large amounts of white people.
Likewise Venezuela’s socialism is viewed as a waste of money because they invested in thier indegnious community which places like Australia do not.
That is what negotiations boil down to.
Western powers want Venezuela to be more like Australia instead and choose which communities are invested in.
Venezuela’s investments in thier indegenious and black communities is viewed as a waste of money.
No one would ever say this about Scandinavia.

The socialist government of Venezuela reduced homelessness, extreme poverty, reduced unemployment to under 6%, healthcare and education for all.
It’s not a waste of money.
It’s Scandinavia with black and brown people.
As a result Venezuela face an uphill battle to implement socialism and faces obstacles that places like Norway do not experience.






.
[Edited 3/4/19 2:04am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #249 posted 03/04/19 4:10am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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hausofmoi7 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

^
Yeah they haven’t blown it all that is correct. They have all the oil and they can get loans from it I suppose as they are good for it. But they blew it in negotiations and policy and diplomacy and management and all that good stuff. They money/oil is all there held up by sanctions. They will be fine eventually but they do absolutely need better leadership. And they need bigger nations like the US to stop trying to keep screwing them.

They will be fine if the u.s don’t overthrow the government they elected and privatise and sell off their resources.

Venezuela uses the Scandinavian model.
I find it interesting that globally Scandinavia is viewed as a success and thier socialism is viewed as a necessary evolution.
But Venezuela’s socialism is viewed as a waste of money.

In Australia social investments is only done in white areas.
It is considered a waste of money to invest in people who are not white Australians or invest in areas where there are not large amounts of white people.
Likewise Venezuela’s socialism is viewed as a waste of money because they invested in thier indegnious community which places like Australia do not.
That is what negotiations boil down to.
Western powers want Venezuela to be more like Australia instead and choose which communities are invested in.
Venezuela’s investments in thier indegenious and black communities is viewed as a waste of money.
No one would ever say this about Scandinavia.

The socialist government of Venezuela reduced homelessness, extreme poverty, reduced unemployment to under 6%, healthcare and education for all.
It’s not a waste of money.
It’s Scandinavia with black and brown people.
As a result Venezuela face an uphill battle to implement socialism and faces obstacles that places like Norway do not experience.




.
[Edited 3/4/19 2:04am]


I sure hope the US doesn’t get involved, but Maduró is never letting go if power freely or elected if he can help it or face the consequences of his actions.

Scandinavian model? I’m not sure that applies to Venezuela now after the “rewriting of the constitution” by Maduró.
President Trump is a disgusting piece of shit.
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Reply #250 posted 03/04/19 4:32am

hausofmoi7

avatar

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

hausofmoi7 said:


They will be fine if the u.s don’t overthrow the government they elected and privatise and sell off their resources.

Venezuela uses the Scandinavian model.
I find it interesting that globally Scandinavia is viewed as a success and thier socialism is viewed as a necessary evolution.
But Venezuela’s socialism is viewed as a waste of money.

In Australia social investments is only done in white areas.
It is considered a waste of money to invest in people who are not white Australians or invest in areas where there are not large amounts of white people.
Likewise Venezuela’s socialism is viewed as a waste of money because they invested in thier indegnious community which places like Australia do not.
That is what negotiations boil down to.
Western powers want Venezuela to be more like Australia instead and choose which communities are invested in.
Venezuela’s investments in thier indegenious and black communities is viewed as a waste of money.
No one would ever say this about Scandinavia.

The socialist government of Venezuela reduced homelessness, extreme poverty, reduced unemployment to under 6%, healthcare and education for all.
It’s not a waste of money.
It’s Scandinavia with black and brown people.
As a result Venezuela face an uphill battle to implement socialism and faces obstacles that places like Norway do not experience.




.
[Edited 3/4/19 2:04am]


I sure hope the US doesn’t get involved, but Maduró is never letting go if power freely or elected if he can help it or face the consequences of his actions.

Scandinavian model? I’m not sure that applies to Venezuela now after the “rewriting of the constitution” by Maduró.

The U.S have been in Venezuela since 2002.
It’s not about U.S not being involved in Venezuela, it’s past that stage.
it’s about U.S withdrawing from Venezuela, removing sanctions and not trying to privatise Venezuela’s oil to give to Wall Street investors.

Yes, it’s the Scandinavian model.
Only difference the people in Venezuela are darker skinned than Norwegians.
So instead they are called every name under the sun.

Rewriting the constitution was not illegal.
As I pointed out above every country amends its constitution.

Venezuela amended its constitution also for reasons that were in the people’s interests and which was allowed within the confines of what thier political system allows.
It was not unconstitutional.
U.S just didn’t like the results.
Which was to shut out foreign interference that had infiltrated thier parliament.


.
[Edited 3/4/19 4:59am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #251 posted 03/04/19 4:42am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

avatar

hausofmoi7 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:



I sure hope the US doesn’t get involved, but Maduró is never letting go if power freely or elected if he can help it or face the consequences of his actions.

Scandinavian model? I’m not sure that applies to Venezuela now after the “rewriting of the constitution” by Maduró.

The U.S have been in Venezuela since 2002.
It’s not about U.S not being involved in Venezuela, it’s past that stage.
it’s about U.S withdrawing from Venezuela, removing sanctions and not trying to privatise Venezuela’s oil to give to Wall Street investors.

Yes, it’s the Scandinavian model.
Only difference the people in Venezuela are darker skinned than Norwegians.
So instead they are called every name under the sun.
When the alt-right protestors of Venezuela kill them.
Suddenly it’s “Venezuela History X” and the protagonist are Nazis who are the center of global empathy.


Not being well versed in either countries political structures I’m going to have to do some googling. But on face value it sure looks like Venezuela has major leadership and structural problems.
President Trump is a disgusting piece of shit.
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Reply #252 posted 03/04/19 4:53am

nd33

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

hausofmoi7 said:


The U.S have been in Venezuela since 2002.
It’s not about U.S not being involved in Venezuela, it’s past that stage.
it’s about U.S withdrawing from Venezuela, removing sanctions and not trying to privatise Venezuela’s oil to give to Wall Street investors.

Yes, it’s the Scandinavian model.
Only difference the people in Venezuela are darker skinned than Norwegians.
So instead they are called every name under the sun.
When the alt-right protestors of Venezuela kill them.
Suddenly it’s “Venezuela History X” and the protagonist are Nazis who are the center of global empathy.


Not being well versed in either countries political structures I’m going to have to do some googling. But on face value it sure looks like Venezuela has major leadership and structural problems.


Yep, many of their people don’t even have clean water, not to mention they can’t access the medicine/medical help they need.

Oh no wait, that’s the US confused
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
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Reply #253 posted 03/04/19 5:15am

BombSquad

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nd33 said:

Yep, many of their people don’t even have clean water, not to mention they can’t access the medicine/medical help they need. Oh no wait, that’s the US confused

The people of the U.S. need someone to take over and try to save them.

Trump turns from 'whining' grief to pathetic midterm sissy moaning and squealing.
weakest pussy crybaby ever to hold office LMFAO
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Reply #254 posted 03/04/19 5:47am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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BombSquad said:



nd33 said:


Yep, many of their people don’t even have clean water, not to mention they can’t access the medicine/medical help they need. Oh no wait, that’s the US confused



The people of the U.S. need someone to take over and try to save them.



Start with Flint Michigan. I read something about the water there.
President Trump is a disgusting piece of shit.
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Reply #255 posted 03/04/19 6:06am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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...I mean I’m as liberal as can be, but that doesn’t mean I’m not a capitalist. I’ve owned my own business since I was out of high school. I do believe in Obamacare and believe in having a College education be a part of the regular school system that everyone can and should attend. But there has to be a way to pay for it all. It has to be viable.

It’s nice that Venezuela has/had that money from oil to throw around at one time, but I KNOW There is massive corruption and a lot of Government officials have gotten filthy rich at the expense of the poor.

Of course US oil and political interests want Venezuela to go under or fail and have been actively working towards that, but Maduro and Chavez haven’t helped either.
President Trump is a disgusting piece of shit.
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Reply #256 posted 03/04/19 1:37pm

IanRG

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

...I mean I’m as liberal as can be, but that doesn’t mean I’m not a capitalist. I’ve owned my own business since I was out of high school. I do believe in Obamacare and believe in having a College education be a part of the regular school system that everyone can and should attend. But there has to be a way to pay for it all. It has to be viable. It’s nice that Venezuela has/had that money from oil to throw around at one time, but I KNOW There is massive corruption and a lot of Government officials have gotten filthy rich at the expense of the poor. Of course US oil and political interests want Venezuela to go under or fail and have been actively working towards that, but Maduro and Chavez haven’t helped either.

.

Especially Maduro. The disaster that is Venzuela today is a result of international greed and internal corruption and human rights abuses. This is what Alfred de Zayas said to the Venzuelan government.

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Reply #257 posted 03/04/19 5:22pm

hausofmoi7

avatar

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

...I mean I’m as liberal as can be, but that doesn’t mean I’m not a capitalist. I’ve owned my own business since I was out of high school. I do believe in Obamacare and believe in having a College education be a part of the regular school system that everyone can and should attend. But there has to be a way to pay for it all. It has to be viable.

It’s nice that Venezuela has/had that money from oil to throw around at one time, but I KNOW There is massive corruption and a lot of Government officials have gotten filthy rich at the expense of the poor.

Of course US oil and political interests want Venezuela to go under or fail and have been actively working towards that, but Maduro and Chavez haven’t helped either.

“We shouldn’t invade Venezuela like Iraq but they are bad people”
-this is how they plan to gain support and muddy the waters so people don’t oppose thier intervention.
Most people oppose war and sanctions but if you muddy waters and run a fake character assinations of it leaders and people you can.
Someone in this discussion even said chavistas should be condemned.
Chavistas are non white venezuelans.
The fact that a whole group of people identify them themselves as “Chavistas”
Should tell you how significant the revolution was.



Hugo Chavez was the antithesis of the opposition party and u.s interests.
If it wasn’t for the Bolívarian revolution headed by Hugo Chavez I don’t know if you realise how bad things were for non whites.
It was so bad in Venezuela’s for non white communities that Chavez went against the popular argument that centrists and right wing people use in the west when it comes to black and indegenious people.
Chavez basically said “f*you it is viable for our people too”
He made it happen by taking back part ownership of the countries resources and redistributed access to human rights and inclusion into society.
He believed human rights and inclusion were viable for non white venezuelans also.
The Bolivarian revolution made it viable for non white venezuelans to exist (see: the 50% decrease in infant mortality, birth rates for non whites grew to the same level as white venezuelans)
It is possible and viable.

Donald Trump and the opposition party in Venezuela don’t think it is viable because they think there are too many people in society if you have to include black and indegenious.
That is why capitalism and racism are inseparable.
Capitalism is tribalism and racism disguised as support for fiscal economic policy that bleeds over into anti-immigration sentiment and patriarchy and so on.
Capitalism is designed so people will fight each other.
racism like patriarchy or any other division is a perfect tool to push the lie that it’s not viable for other certain groups of people.
It is viable if we want it to be.




.
[Edited 3/4/19 23:31pm]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #258 posted 03/04/19 7:45pm

hausofmoi7

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The bolivarian revoultion did not fight hate with hate.
There is no racial superiority ingrained in Marxism which Venezuela models its liberation movement/process on.
They just pulled up more seats at the table.



Someone from Venezuela said recently about the nature of the opposition support in his country and the violence unleashed onto “chavistas” and the general nature of the opposition.
He said:
“If you are use to privilege then equality feels like pressure”




.
[Edited 3/4/19 20:03pm]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #259 posted 03/04/19 7:50pm

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:
...I mean I’m as liberal as can be, but that doesn’t mean I’m not a capitalist. I’ve owned my own business since I was out of high school. I do believe in Obamacare and believe in having a College education be a part of the regular school system that everyone can and should attend. But there has to be a way to pay for it all. It has to be viable. It’s nice that Venezuela has/had that money from oil to throw around at one time, but I KNOW There is massive corruption and a lot of Government officials have gotten filthy rich at the expense of the poor. Of course US oil and political interests want Venezuela to go under or fail and have been actively working towards that, but Maduro and Chavez haven’t helped either.
“We shouldn’t invade Venezuela like Iraq but they are bad people” -this is how they plan to gain support and muddy the waters so people don’t oppose thier intervention. Most people oppose war and sanctions but if you muddy waters and run a fake character assinations of it leaders and people you can. Someone in this discussion even said chavistas should be condemned. Chavistas are non white venezuelans. The fact that a whole group of people identify them themselves as “Chavistas” Should tell you how significant the revolution was. Hugo Chavez was the antithesis of the opposition party and u.s interests. If it wasn’t for the Bolívarian revolution headed by Hugo Chavez I don’t know if you realise how bad things were for non whites. It was so bad Venezuela’s non white communities that Chavez went against what centrists and right wing people say in the west when it comes to black and indegenious people. Chavez said “f*you it is viable for our people too” He made it happen by taking back part ownership of indegenious resources and redistributed access to human rights and inclusion into society. He believed human rights and inclusion were viable for non white venezuelans. The Bolivarian revolution made viable for non white venezuelans to exist (see: the 50% increase in infant mortality, birth rates for non whites grew to the same level as white venezuelans) It is possible and viable. Donald Trump and the opposition party in Venezuela don’t think it is viable because it’s just too many people in society if you have to include black and indegenious. That is why capitalism and racism are inseparable. Capitalism is tribalism and racism disguised as support for fiscal economic policy that bleeds over into anti-immigration sentiment and patriarchy and so on. Capitalism is designed so people will fight each other. racism like patriarchy or any other division is a perfect tool to push the lie that it’s not viable for other certain groups of people. It is viable if we want it to be. . [Edited 3/4/19 19:05pm]

.

Have you noticed NO ONE in this thread is arguing for the sanctions or the far right violence or for US externally forced regime change? It is only you who is unable to condemn the corruption and racist violence by Maduro's government and security forces.

.

Also Maduro is no Chavez. Maduro killed the revolution. The racist and classist violence by Maduro's security forces against the poor communities as being reported by actual, real Venezuelan socialists in Venezuela proves this. As does the government corruption and human rights abuses that Alfred de Zayas advised the Maduro government must end (along with advising the UN and world that the sanctions must end).

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Reply #260 posted 03/07/19 8:08am

hausofmoi7

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Chavista ‘thugs’ vs. opposition ‘civil society’: western media on Venezuela

https://journals.sagepub....6818823639

Since the election of Hugo Chavez in 1998, Venezuela has undergone a period of intense racial and class conflict, as a multiethnic subaltern coalition has begun to assert itself politically against a previously hegemonic and inordinately dominant white elite. Scholars have highlighted the local media’s racial and class snobbery when covering social movements and civil society, attempting to split the country into two groups: ‘underclass mobs’ and ‘respectable’ civil society. This article, which analyses media coverage at crucial points of conflict – 1998/9, 2002, 2013 and 2014 – finds that western media have overwhelmingly matched the local media, portraying only the largely dark-skinned working-class chavista groups as vicious ‘mobs’, ‘hordes’ and ‘thugs’, while representing the white, upper-class opposition as ‘civil society’.
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #261 posted 03/07/19 2:15pm

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

Chavista ‘thugs’ vs. opposition ‘civil society’: western media on Venezuela https://journals.sagepub....6818823639 Since the election of Hugo Chavez in 1998, Venezuela has undergone a period of intense racial and class conflict, as a multiethnic subaltern coalition has begun to assert itself politically against a previously hegemonic and inordinately dominant white elite. Scholars have highlighted the local media’s racial and class snobbery when covering social movements and civil society, attempting to split the country into two groups: ‘underclass mobs’ and ‘respectable’ civil society. This article, which analyses media coverage at crucial points of conflict – 1998/9, 2002, 2013 and 2014 – finds that western media have overwhelmingly matched the local media, portraying only the largely dark-skinned working-class chavista groups as vicious ‘mobs’, ‘hordes’ and ‘thugs’, while representing the white, upper-class opposition as ‘civil society’.

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The article is only about representation in 7 US and UK newspapers only up to 2014. It is not about what was done back then, only about how it was reported. It praises the success of Chavez and briefly mentions the failure of the Maduro government to continue Chavez' legacy blaiming Maduro's failiure on "the price of oil falling dramatically, disastrous government policies and US sanctions". The oil price fall from its temporary hghs was not as dramatic as the coal, iron ore and copper price falls Australia suffered from recently but Australia has no sanctions and importantly, no equally disasterous government policies.

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It adds nothing that has not already been said and agreed here or to the topic you set as being about the Jan 2019 US attempts at a coup. Maduro cannot rest on Chavez's laurels any more than the poor and disadvantaged people starving and without adequate medical supplies being attacked by Maduro's security forces can be blamed for the evil acts of the far right in 1998/9, 2002, 2014 or even 2017.

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Reply #262 posted 03/07/19 5:40pm

hausofmoi7

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David Smilde: 'US Sanctions Kill Venezuelans But It's Worth It'

https://www.google.com.au...-0023.html

David Smilde, in a New York Times op-ed, stated that a US military invasion of Venezuela would be "folly." Actually it would be a major crime.
US liberals have always preferred to have the government use economic strangulation against its enemies rather than military force. They've also, much more than conservatives, stressed the importance of having accomplices ("allies" is a common euphemism).


David Smilde, in a New York Times op-ed, stated that a US military invasion of Venezuela would be "folly." Actually it would be a major crime, but liberals very rarely describe the barbarism of their own government properly.

Hence Madeleine Albright's infamous slip-up when she said publicly that 5,000 dead Iraqi children per month from US-imposed sanctions was "worth it." The fact that a huge crime is causally discussed in the NYT op-ed section by Smilde also speaks volumes about the perversion of political culture.

Smilde supports US economic sanctions against Venezuela, which is going through a major economic crisis. In other words, he supports making the crisis worse to give "leverage" to the opposition. Incidentally, almost nobody cares to notice, but such US sanctions are illegal.

On Twitter, Smilde (who blocked me in 2015 immediately after I wrote a piece criticizing him) angrily responded to a critic by conceding that "sanctions kill."

According to the opposition–aligned pollster Datanalisis, which Smilde relies on to claim that he is speaking for 80 percent of Venezuelans, the majority of Venezuelans oppose the sanctions he advocates. Smilde is, however, too dishonest to have mentioned this in his NYT piece.

Moreover, how many politicians in the United States would dare advocate – or even refrain from vehemently rejecting – foreign sanctions on their own country at any time, never mind during a depression? That goes a long way towards explaining the opposition's humiliating defeat in October's regional elections – as one would learn from reading Francisco Rodriguez, a vastly more honest and rational opponent of the Venezuelan government than Smilde.




Guaido urges more Venezuela sanctions

https://www.google.com.au...063424c23d

Venezuela's opposition leader Juan Guaido urged Europe to tighten financial sanctions against the government of Nicolas Maduro after it expelled Germany's ambassador, a magazine quoted him as saying.

It was the latest flashpoint in a global showdown over Venezuela, with Western nations largely recognising Guaido as legitimate head of state but Russia and China still supporting the socialist Maduro and urging non-interference.

"This action represents a threat against Germany," Guaido told Der Spiegel after Caracas declared ambassador Daniel Kriener persona non grata. He and other diplomats had welcomed home Guaido at Caracas airport earlier this week.

"I hope that Europe reacts sharply to this serious threat against an ambassador," Guaido added. "Above all, they should tighten financial sanctions against the regime."
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #263 posted 03/07/19 6:03pm

hausofmoi7

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Venezuela Accuses U.S. of Secretly Shipping Arms After Weapons Found on Plane with Possible CIA Ties
https://www.democracynow....y_shipping

A North Carolina-based air freight company has halted flights to Venezuela following a report by McClatchy linking it to possible arms smuggling. Last week, Venezuelan authorities claimed they had uncovered 19 assault weapons, 118 ammunition cartridges and 90 military-grade radio antennas on board a U.S.-owned plane that had flown from Miami into Valencia, Venezuela’s third-largest city. The Boeing 767 is owned by a company called 21 Air based in Greensboro, North Carolina. The plane had made nearly 40 round-trip flights between Miami and spots in Venezuela and Colombia since January 11, the day after Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro was sworn in to a second term. The flights ended after McClatchy first reported on them. Venezuela accused the U.S. government of sending the arms as part of its attempt to topple the Maduro government. While no definitive links between 21 Air and the U.S. government have been established, McClatchy reports the chairman of 21 Air, Adolfo Moreno, as well as another employee at the company have ties to Gemini Air Cargo, which was involved in the CIA’s rendition program during the administration of George W. Bush. We speak to McClatchy reporter Tim Johnson, who broke the story. Johnson was part of a team that shared a 2017 Pulitzer Prize for its investigation of the Panama Papers.



elliot Abrams who was convicted of using humanitarian aid as a front to smuggle weapons into Nicaragua has been assigned by the CIA to try and get u.s aid into Venezuela.
Venezuela is accepting aid but they are however refusing to allow Elliot Abrams CIA pre-packaged cargo into the country.
and for good reason, allowing Elliot Abrams CIA control the humanitarian aid into the country is as ridiculous as letting Jimmy Saville babysit kids.
Or ExxonMobil run the environmental agency.



http://articles.latimes.c...litary-aid



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[Edited 3/7/19 20:45pm]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #264 posted 03/07/19 8:04pm

IanRG

Excellent to see you finally discussing your topic. It is deplorable that there are people that seek to promote things like invasions, sanctions and arms smuggling to force regime change.

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Reply #265 posted 03/16/19 4:27am

hausofmoi7

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EVERY MAJOR U.S. WAR of the last several decades has begun the same way: the U.S. government fabricates an inflammatory, emotionally provocative lie which large U.S. media outlets uncritically treat as truth while refusing at air questioning or dissent, thus inflaming primal anger against the country the U.S. wants to attack.

https://theintercept.com/...n5DSRIe2fM

That’s how we got the Vietnam War (North Vietnam attacks U.S. ships in the Gulf of Tonkin); the Gulf War (Saddam ripped babies from incubators); and, of course, the war in Iraq (Saddam had WMDs and formed an alliance with Al Qaeda).
This was exactly the tactic used on February 23, when the narrative shifted radically in favor of those U.S. officials who want regime change operations in Venezuela. That’s because images were broadcast all over the world of trucks carrying humanitarian aid burning in Colombia on the Venezuela border. U.S. officials who have been agitating for a regime change war in Venezuela – Marco Rubio, John Bolton, Mike Pompeo, the head of USAid Mark Green – used Twitter to spread classic Fake News: they vehemently stated that the trucks were set on fire, on purpose, by President Nicolas Maduro’s forces.

Each of the trucks burned by Maduro carried 20 tons of food & medicine. This is a crime & if international law means anything he must pay a high price for this. #23FAyudaHumanitaria https://t.co/IrGzrOUX09

— Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) February 23, 2019


Masked thugs, civilians killed by live rounds, and the burning of trucks carrying badly-needed food and medicine. This has been Maduro’s response to peaceful efforts to help Venezuelans. Countries that still recognize Maduro should take note of what they are endorsing. pic.twitter.com/KlSebd2M5a

— John Bolton (@AmbJohnBolton) February 23, 2019


.@SecPompeo: We denounce Maduro’s refusal to let humanitarian assistance reach #Venezuela. What kind of a sick tyrant stops food from getting to hungry people? The images of burning trucks filled with aid are sickening. https://t.co/zzFNYVly2c

— USConsulateFrankfurt (@usconsfrankfurt) February 24, 2019


#Maduro ordering the firing on and burning of trucks filled with
humanitarian aid & attacking volunteers is unconscionable. I condemn the killings & human rights abuses committed by Maduro. Violent attacks against life-saving aid for #Venezuela is despicable. #EstamosUnidosVE https://t.co/BOSuVP1mTL

— Mark Green (@USAIDMarkGreen) February 23, 2019


As it always does – as it always has done from its inception when Wolf Blitzer embedded with U.S. troops – CNN led the way in not just spreading these government lies but independently purporting to vouch for their truth. On February 24, CNN told the world what we all now know is an absolute lie: that “a CNN team saw incendiary devices from police on the Venezuelan side of the border ignite the trucks,” though it generously added that “the network’s journalists are unsure if the trucks were burned on purpose.”

Other media outlets endorsed the lie while at least avoiding what CNN did by personally vouching for it. “Humanitarian aid destined for Venezuela was set on fire, seemingly by troops loyal to Mr Maduro,” The Telegraph claimed. The BBC uncritically printed: “There have also been reports of several aid trucks being burned – something Mr Guaidó said was a violation of the Geneva Convention.”

That lie – supported by incredibly powerful video images – changed everything. Ever since, that Maduro burned trucks filled with humanitarian aid was repeated over and over as proven fact on U.S. news outlets. Immediately after it was claimed, politicians who had been silent on the issue of Venezuela or even reluctant to support regime change began issuing statements now supportive of it. U.S. news stars and think tank luminaries who lack even a single critical brain cell when it comes to war-provoking claims from U.S. officials took a leading role in beating the war drums without spending even a single second to ask whether what they were being told were true.

But on Saturday night, the New York Times published a detailed video and accompanying article proving that this entire story was a lie. The humanitarian trucks were not set on fire by Maduro’s forces. They were set on fire by anti-Maduro protesters who threw a molotov cocktail that hit one of the trucks. And the NYT’s video traces how the lie spread: from U.S. officials who baselessly announced that Maduro burned them to media outlets that mindlessly repeated the lie.

While the NYT’s article and video are perfectly good and necessary journalism, the credit they are implicitly claiming for themselves for exposing this lie is totally undeserved. That’s because independent journalists – the kind who question rather than mindlessly repeat government claims and are therefore mocked and marginalized and kept off mainstream television – used exactly this same evidence on the day of the incident to debunk the lies being told by Rubio, Pompeo, Bolton and CNN.

On February 24, the day the lie spread, Max Blumenthal wrote from Venezuela, on the independent reporting Grayzone site, that “the claim was absurd on its face,” noting that he “personally witnessed tear gas canisters hit every kind of vehicle imaginable in the occupied Palestinian West Bank, and I have never seen a fire like the one that erupted on the Santander bridge.” He compiled substantial evidence strongly suggesting that the trucks were set ablaze by anti-Maduro protesters, including Bloomberg video showing them using Molotov cocktails, to express serious doubts about the mainstream narrative. On Twitter, in response to Marco Rubio’s lie, he wrote:

I did not see any Venezuelan government forces set fire to US aid trucks on the Colombian side of the border. And neither did you. Actually, the evidence so far is pointing in the other direction. https://t.co/AVBPYtFMiR

— Max Blumenthal (@MaxBlumenthal) February 24, 2019

This video found by @graffitiborrao appears to show the moment when an opposition guarimbero throws a Molotov cocktail on a truck loaded with US aid.





Equally false is the widespread, popular media claim that Maduro has refused to allow any humanitarian aid to enter Venezuela. That, too, is an outright lie. The Venezuelan government has allowed substantial amounts of aid into their country from countries that have not threatened to overthrow the President with an external coup; Maduro has only blocked trucks and planes from entering that come from those countries (the U.S, Brazil, Colombia) that have been threatening Venezuela. something any country would do.

Indeed, both the Red Cross and the United Nations expressed concerns about “humanitarian aid” from the U.S. on the ground that it was a pretext for regime change and would politicize humanitarian aid). Even NPR recognized that “the U.S. effort to distribute tons of food and medicine to needy Venezuelans is more than just a humanitarian mission. The operation is also designed to foment regime change in Venezuela — which is why much of the international aid community wants nothing to do with it.”

That concern is obviously valid given the history of Elliott Abrams, the envoy leading U.S. policy in Venezuela, of exploiting “humanitarian aid” as a scam to smuggle weapons and other tools to overthrow Latin American governments he dislikes – another fact rarely if ever mentioned in U.S. media reports.

(Full article in link above)



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[Edited 3/16/19 4:39am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #266 posted 03/16/19 5:01am

IanRG

You don't need to rely on media to find out that the Red Cross publicly stated that it had to negotiate an increase in aid to Venezuela and that the Red Cross itself stated the increase will be insufficent. You can learn this directly from the Red Cross' statements.

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The spin by one side is not answered by spin from the other side - It is only answered by the facts.

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Just the same as the racist and classists violence by the Maduro's security forces against the poor and disadvantaged as reported by real actual socialists actually working in Venezuela is not justified by the acts of the US or the far right in Venezuela.

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The events in New Zealand should show that extremism is the evil - it is perpetuated and made worse every time an extemist seeks to justify their own extremism because there is extremism by others.

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Reply #267 posted 03/16/19 9:32am

2freaky4church
1

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NYT finally admitted video was fake.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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