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Thread started 11/07/18 4:01am

deebee

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Black-passing theatre director with two White parents given portion of POC grant -- Legit or illegit?

A story in the British media at the moment that I thought the Org may like to mull over....

Anthony Ekundayo Lennon was named as one of four "theatre practitioners of colour" awarded a portion of a £406,500 grant from Arts Council England - a public body that funds arts projects - as part of a two-year residential traineeship. The programme is designed to help ethnic-minority theatre practitioners establish themselves in the industry, which has failed to attract a diverse workforce. Lennon has taken up a Trainee Artistic Director role at the Talawa Theatre Company, a Black-led theatre group in east London. Here he is:


w0SyU9_7_400x400.jpg

But the director was born Anthony David Lennon to two White Irish parents in west London. As a young man, his skin colour and hair led most people to believe that he was mixed race. He suffered jibes in the street from people who saw him as such, and his school caretaker called him “n*****” and threatened to attack him with a dog. In 1990, he was featured in a BBC docu-drama talking about how these lived experiences led him eventually to identify as being of mixed heritage.



He discovered a passion for acting and began to study. Later, he struggled to get cast in 'White' parts, but found a place within groups like the Black Theatre Forum. As he told an audience in 2012: “Although I’m white, with white parents, I have gone through the struggles of a black man, a black actor.”

Dl9_zhzW4AAFGLq.jpg

He eventually decided to fully adopt a new identity and chose a name from an African book - Taharka Ekundayo. Taharka is the name of an Egyptian pharaoh and Ekundayo means "weeping becomes joy".

In a book called Photo ID, written a decade ago, he said of this: “I was at a stage in my life where to address myself as Anthony Lennon did not fulfil me; it didn’t seem to allow me to express myself as I saw fit." He argued that, “Everybody on the planet is African. It’s your choice as to whether you accept it", and went on: “Some people call themselves a born-again Christian. Some people call me a born-again African. I prefer to call myself an African born again.”

Though he's been 'out' about his identity for some time, this week the story has become news. Lennon has attracted criticism from some commentators, with comparisons being made to Rachel Dolezal.

Writing in the Independent, Paula Akpan argued: "Not only has Lennon chosen to wear black identity like a costume, he has actively chosen to take up space and pilfer resources that were never meant for him." The Guardian's Georgina Lawton wrote: "If Lennon has no claim to blackness and has simply chosen to identify as such, then he has erased the identities of those who cannot choose, adding himself to a growing number of white people who cherry-pick minority identities like costumes that can be discarded at will."

But some have defended Lennon. The filmmaker Orson Nava tweeted: "I’ve known Anthony for over thirty years. His racialised identity was not ‘adopted’. It was thrust upon him by a world that treated him as a black man." Poet and performance artist Chanje Kunda tweeted: "He has supported, encouraged and empowered a lot of black artists and I was proud to be on a panel with him. A true activist, a true supporter of black culture and arts. Leave him alone." The Talawa Theatre Company, where he works, has also strongly supported him.

- - -

So, what say you Org? Is he 'Black' - or, at least, should he be treated as 'Black'? Should he qualify for this Arts Council funding on account of his experiences and work in Black theatre, or is he taking opportunities away from others? What do you think and why?

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #1 posted 11/07/18 6:07am

daingermouz202
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Obvious to me this dude is of mixed race. He's just been lead to believe he's white. One of his parents or grandparents is probably bi racial and has been passing for white or he was adopted and doesn't know it.
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Reply #2 posted 11/07/18 6:14am

jaawwnn

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Plenty of Irish people look like him (maybe just because we're an island with loads of ports), I remember the racist bullying they got in school for it as well.

Assuming we agree that racism is a reality based upon the fiction of race then it makes sense that if he has spent his life being treated as non-white by casting directors then he deserves the grant.

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Reply #3 posted 11/07/18 6:16am

OldFriends4Sal
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More like 'mulatto' passing or mixed African/European.

.

But if he is Irish, then he is Irish, and I've seen his type of look among Northern Europeans. His facial look also looks like a lot of 'Neanderthal' types. I've also seen that look among French people and Middle Eastern:Arab people

.

He should still take a DNA test, if he hasn't already, to confirm. looks like someone who could be anywhere from 1/2 African/European 2 1/8th African/European.
I think people have stereotypical ideals of what a Northern European should look like and anything else means they are mixed or something.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

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Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
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Reply #4 posted 11/07/18 6:20am

OldFriends4Sal
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Sébastien Chabal French Rugby player

Image result for Sébastien Chabal

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #5 posted 11/07/18 6:34am

OldFriends4Sal
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Should he qualify for this Arts Council funding on account of his experiences and work in Black theatre,

From everything I've read, I think he should. The black folk complaining, if they did not know about him being Irish, they would be assuming he is part Black. I think they should really look at his life and what he has experienced and how he lived. He clearly is not someone, who is falsifying an application to get a grant.

or is he taking opportunities away from others?

No, it seems he is being treated good and bad by people perceptions of him as a mixed race man.

394442.jpg

anthony-e-johnson.jpg

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #6 posted 11/07/18 7:12am

OldFriends4Sal
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RUSSIAN

valuev_berlin.jpg

Nikolai-Valuev.jpg

main-qimg-b7859a0d35ee167b90a59b9465708bcd

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #7 posted 11/07/18 7:43am

onlyforaminute

In some pictures he looks "other" not white or black, in others mixed. But race for the most part isn't determined by your looks but by ancestry many many many people of black parents have not been allowed to freely claim white simply because they look it and enjoy the benefits of looking that way. 2-way street in my opinion. Black people didn't make these rules. As an individual I don't care either way since it doesn't make or break anything in my life. Though from the things I'm reading seems like within a generation or 2 the old US way of thinking will start shifting.
"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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Reply #8 posted 11/07/18 10:55am

OldFriends4Sal
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reminds me of this guy

The Surprising Way Saliva Brought These Six Strangers Together

Results from National Geographic’s Geno 2.0 DNA Ancestry Kit revealed that these diverse individuals have a shared genetic profile.

You are utterly unique. You have your own fingerprints, yo...of talking. Even the shape of your ears and the pattern of your retinas are specific to you. But some traits are more than skin-deep, and it’s possible you have something big in common with total strangers.

These six people may not look the same, but they all share a similar genetic ancestry, according to results from the National Geographic Geno 2.0 DNA Ancestry Kit. Using DNA from a saliva sample, the test shows a person's geographic origins and traces where that person's ancestors migrated hundreds and even thousands of years ago.

Image may contain: 1 person, closeup
CAM MEYER, 28, SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA

“People have always asked me where I’m from, what my race is, and I was not totally sure. I have a very unique look. So I thought it’d be cool to find out.”

These six people had their DNA tested with National Geographic’s Geno 2.0 Ancestry Kit. The results indicate essentially the same “racial” heritage, in the following percentages: 32% Northern European, 28% Southern European, 21% Sub-Saharan African and 14% Southwest Asian/North African.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #9 posted 11/07/18 12:09pm

onlyforaminute

OldFriends4Sale said:

reminds me of this guy

The Surprising Way Saliva Brought These Six Strangers Together

Results from National Geographic’s Geno 2.0 DNA Ancestry Kit revealed that these diverse individuals have a shared genetic profile.

You are utterly unique. You have your own fingerprints, yo...of talking. Even the shape of your ears and the pattern of your retinas are specific to you. But some traits are more than skin-deep, and it’s possible you have something big in common with total strangers.

These six people may not look the same, but they all share a similar genetic ancestry, according to results from the National Geographic Geno 2.0 DNA Ancestry Kit. Using DNA from a saliva sample, the test shows a person's geographic origins and traces where that person's ancestors migrated hundreds and even thousands of years ago.

Image may contain: 1 person, closeup
CAM MEYER, 28, SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA

“People have always asked me where I’m from, what my race is, and I was not totally sure. I have a very unique look. So I thought it’d be cool to find out.”

These six people had their DNA tested with National Geographic’s Geno 2.0 Ancestry Kit. The results indicate essentially the same “racial” heritage, in the following percentages: 32% Northern European, 28% Southern European, 21% Sub-Saharan African and 14% Southwest Asian/North African.



From what I'm reading there are many people (tribes) from Sub-Sahara Africa who do not consider themselves "black" nor "white", I would think just as NAs (first nation peoples) don't consider themselves "asian" or "white", regardless of DNA testing. As the demographic changes and with immigration the entire shifting of who is what is going to change. I mean AA is only a term used as of the 1980s, as there become more first generation 100% African (based on where both parents were born) Americans , the meaning of AA changes which is going to meet some resistance somewhere, it already is.

"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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Reply #10 posted 11/07/18 12:55pm

deebee

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daingermouz2020 said:

Obvious to me this dude is of mixed race. He's just been lead to believe he's white. One of his parents or grandparents is probably bi racial and has been passing for white or he was adopted and doesn't know it.

Could be that there are strands of his ancestry that the family don't know about, e.g. a grandparent. I don't think he's adopted though, as he says his siblings have similar characteristics.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #11 posted 11/07/18 1:16pm

deebee

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jaawwnn said:

Plenty of Irish people look like him (maybe just because we're an island with loads of ports), I remember the racist bullying they got in school for it as well.

Assuming we agree that racism is a reality based upon the fiction of race then it makes sense that if he has spent his life being treated as non-white by casting directors then he deserves the grant.

It's the different justifications on which judgments in these cases rest, and the lack of a consensus, that I find so interesting. So, here, it's something liked 'lived (social) experience' to ground his claim to a certain identity. That's cropped up here too when we've discussed Pres Obama's racial identity, for example. People have convincingly pointed out that, out there in the society, he'd be apprehended by others as Black, potentially subject to racist abuse, etc - that should someone holler a racist epithet, he'd be among those who'd turn around. Those journalists and twitterers disputing this guy's claim have insisted that lived experience is not enough, however; that he needs some other (often unspecified) basis to qualify.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #12 posted 11/07/18 1:20pm

deebee

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OldFriends4Sale said:

More like 'mulatto' passing or mixed African/European.

.

But if he is Irish, then he is Irish, and I've seen his type of look among Northern Europeans. His facial look also looks like a lot of 'Neanderthal' types. I've also seen that look among French people and Middle Eastern:Arab people

.

He should still take a DNA test, if he hasn't already, to confirm. looks like someone who could be anywhere from 1/2 African/European 2 1/8th African/European.
I think people have stereotypical ideals of what a Northern European should look like and anything else means they are mixed or something.

Should the results bear on his claim to the racial identity he says he is, in your opinion (and, in this case, the funding/role that he's been allowed to take)? Or is it more that he should take a DNA test for his own further understanding, but it shouldn't bear on his claim to be this or that?

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #13 posted 11/07/18 1:27pm

deebee

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OldFriends4Sale said:

Should he qualify for this Arts Council funding on account of his experiences and work in Black theatre,

From everything I've read, I think he should. The black folk complaining, if they did not know about him being Irish, they would be assuming he is part Black. I think they should really look at his life and what he has experienced and how he lived. He clearly is not someone, who is falsifying an application to get a grant.

or is he taking opportunities away from others?

No, it seems he is being treated good and bad by people perceptions of him as a mixed race man.

Ahh, that pretty much answers my question above. thumbs up!

Why such interest in ancestry, phenotypes, and the like, if you see racial identity very much as a social phenomenon? (This is a question I always want to ask Henry Louis Gates, too, so I don't mean it as a slight!)

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #14 posted 11/07/18 1:32pm

deebee

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onlyforaminute said:

In some pictures he looks "other" not white or black, in others mixed. But race for the most part isn't determined by your looks but by ancestry many many many people of black parents have not been allowed to freely claim white simply because they look it and enjoy the benefits of looking that way. 2-way street in my opinion. Black people didn't make these rules. As an individual I don't care either way since it doesn't make or break anything in my life. Though from the things I'm reading seems like within a generation or 2 the old US way of thinking will start shifting.

So, is there an 'essence' of race that's there in some form, even when we're not able to see it? In that case, what is race 'made of'?

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #15 posted 11/07/18 3:50pm

onlyforaminute

deebee said:

onlyforaminute said:

In some pictures he looks "other" not white or black, in others mixed. But race for the most part isn't determined by your looks but by ancestry many many many people of black parents have not been allowed to freely claim white simply because they look it and enjoy the benefits of looking that way. 2-way street in my opinion. Black people didn't make these rules. As an individual I don't care either way since it doesn't make or break anything in my life. Though from the things I'm reading seems like within a generation or 2 the old US way of thinking will start shifting.

So, is there an 'essence' of race that's there in some form, even when we're not able to see it? In that case, what is race 'made of'?

I take all this back. This is all about someone from another country I'm not a part of playing the system because of how strangers treated him in the street. So, with all that said, it all depends on how that country has been running itself as far as racial categorizing goes. These days when it comes to money a lot of things are let to slide.

[Edited 11/7/18 16:07pm]

"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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Reply #16 posted 11/07/18 5:22pm

onlyforaminute

Rebecca King-Crews

Rebecca King-Crews, Terry Crews' wife. On her acting resume, per her comments she has listed to play someone of Nordic descent. She identfies as a black woman, but will play white character roles. I guess it's the same difference.

Rebecca was born to an interracial couple in Benton Harbor, Michigan, the United States of America on December 24, 1965. Rebecca who grew up in a Christian family is of the Afro-American ethnicity and is an American national. People often mistake her to be of white heritage as a result of her skin color but she is indeed an African American.


https://heightline.com/re...aphy-wiki/

"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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Reply #17 posted 11/07/18 6:48pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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deebee said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Should he qualify for this Arts Council funding on account of his experiences and work in Black theatre,

From everything I've read, I think he should. The black folk complaining, if they did not know about him being Irish, they would be assuming he is part Black. I think they should really look at his life and what he has experienced and how he lived. He clearly is not someone, who is falsifying an application to get a grant.

or is he taking opportunities away from others?

No, it seems he is being treated good and bad by people perceptions of him as a mixed race man.

Ahh, that pretty much answers my question above. thumbs up!

Why such interest in ancestry, phenotypes, and the like, if you see racial identity very much as a social phenomenon? (This is a question I always want to ask Henry Louis Gates, too, so I don't mean it as a slight!)

I see ancestry, phenotype and the like(language included) differently from racial identity. The former is 'human' it's nature it's earth shaping mankind. Mankind trying to find harmony in the earth(sometimes violently)

Racial identity is more political, it doesn't actually reflect nature. Like in America, where people still taut the one drop rule. It goes against nature, but race is taught almost like a religious dogma.

.

There are over 20 variations of Eagles all different, all beautiful all equal. Race teaches there are 4 maybe 5 human species, unequal, which isn't true. There is only 1 human species with over 100 ethnic variations. If there were more human races they would be aquatic humans, aerial humans, subterranean humans etc I think ethnic diversity in nature and the human race is beautiful. All the varying forms of expressions that come from us partially shaped by the environments we've settld in whether it is language, dance, clothing, movement, sexual expression, cooking, how it's formed our body types, complexions, features, hand/feet shapes, hair etc

.

There is very cool project called Humanæ (Pantone) by Angélica Dass a Brazilian woman that I think is wonderful

40658678_1832531516800034_19356777652944896_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_eui2=AeH9g3034TDToVIz7udjRnMfmj11Xq99fKRrA24d2zUtBwRWOLJCkGpe1RmA09Hi5U-RI83lXkD0M5zs_40CuPeTpvDCOCZLaxeQchRyxEHqNA&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=03e14a9fc980e0cf436b0c468854ce71&oe=5C80BD78

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #18 posted 11/07/18 7:03pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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deebee said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

More like 'mulatto' passing or mixed African/European.

.

But if he is Irish, then he is Irish, and I've seen his type of look among Northern Europeans. His facial look also looks like a lot of 'Neanderthal' types. I've also seen that look among French people and Middle Eastern:Arab people

.

He should still take a DNA test, if he hasn't already, to confirm. looks like someone who could be anywhere from 1/2 African/European 2 1/8th African/European.
I think people have stereotypical ideals of what a Northern European should look like and anything else means they are mixed or something.

Should the results bear on his claim to the racial identity he says he is, in your opinion (and, in this case, the funding/role that he's been allowed to take)? Or is it more that he should take a DNA test for his own further understanding, but it shouldn't bear on his claim to be this or that?

He should take it for his own further understanding, not bearing on his claim. I almost like the 'mystery' of his face. I love when people's look causes confusion in the mainstream thinking.

But with this ability to trace dna and ancestry, everyone should go for it.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #19 posted 11/07/18 8:00pm

onlyforaminute

These people can speak for themselves.
What is black?
https://m.huffpost.com/us...us_4775100
"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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Reply #20 posted 11/08/18 2:20am

deebee

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onlyforaminute said:

deebee said:

So, is there an 'essence' of race that's there in some form, even when we're not able to see it? In that case, what is race 'made of'?

I take all this back. This is all about someone from another country I'm not a part of playing the system because of how strangers treated him in the street. So, with all that said, it all depends on how that country has been running itself as far as racial categorizing goes. These days when it comes to money a lot of things are let to slide.

[Edited 11/7/18 16:07pm]

What changed your mind?

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #21 posted 11/08/18 2:29am

jaawwnn

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Well, not to get all irish slaves bullshit about it, bear in mind that irish people in general were racialised as non-white only 150 years ago.




Of course, now we're a pretty racist society ourselves. We learnt from the best I guess.


Personally I have no interest in tracing my DNA, at least not right now.

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Reply #22 posted 11/08/18 3:30am

deebee

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OldFriends4Sale said:

deebee said:

Ahh, that pretty much answers my question above. thumbs up!

Why such interest in ancestry, phenotypes, and the like, if you see racial identity very much as a social phenomenon? (This is a question I always want to ask Henry Louis Gates, too, so I don't mean it as a slight!)

I see ancestry, phenotype and the like(language included) differently from racial identity. The former is 'human' it's nature it's earth shaping mankind. Mankind trying to find harmony in the earth(sometimes violently)

Racial identity is more political, it doesn't actually reflect nature. Like in America, where people still taut the one drop rule. It goes against nature, but race is taught almost like a religious dogma.

.

There are over 20 variations of Eagles all different, all beautiful all equal. Race teaches there are 4 maybe 5 human species, unequal, which isn't true. There is only 1 human species with over 100 ethnic variations. If there were more human races they would be aquatic humans, aerial humans, subterranean humans etc I think ethnic diversity in nature and the human race is beautiful. All the varying forms of expressions that come from us partially shaped by the environments we've settld in whether it is language, dance, clothing, movement, sexual expression, cooking, how it's formed our body types, complexions, features, hand/feet shapes, hair etc

.

There is very cool project called Humanæ (Pantone) by Angélica Dass a Brazilian woman that I think is wonderful

40658678_1832531516800034_19356777652944896_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_eui2=AeH9g3034TDToVIz7udjRnMfmj11Xq99fKRrA24d2zUtBwRWOLJCkGpe1RmA09Hi5U-RI83lXkD0M5zs_40CuPeTpvDCOCZLaxeQchRyxEHqNA&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=03e14a9fc980e0cf436b0c468854ce71&oe=5C80BD78

Ah, I see. Yes, I agree that the 'natural' realm of biological difference and genetic variation is different from the social realm in which we attach meaning and significance to natural variation. Natural variance wildly exceeds our social categories, giving us a world of manifold strands and gradations - such as those in the artwork above - which we then insist are distinct domains separated by clear boundaries. Hence, the reason why racist societies must impose rules that govern category membership - and why there can be disputes such as the one discussed in this thread.

The liberating potential of that, as such, such that we could potentially frame natural difference and similarity ('identity' coming from the Latin 'idem', meaning 'same') in multiple different ways. The downer, though, is that historically particular systems of categorisation have been imposed in the pursuit of social, economic and political interests. As Marx had it, "The tradition of ... dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living."

Interesting to try and look at these issues of ancestry outside of that context. I suppose my own antipathy to that field has been because I've always associated it with attempts to define 'essence' from origin. But it's true that it's an interesting area of study, in and of itself.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #23 posted 11/08/18 4:16am

deebee

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jaawwnn said:

Well, not to get all irish slaves bullshit about it, bear in mind that irish people in general were racialised as non-white only 150 years ago.




Of course, now we're a pretty racist society ourselves. We learnt from the best I guess.


Personally I have no interest in tracing my DNA, at least not right now.


Yes, and even at the ostensible end of the historical and political process of their becoming 'White', their claim to such a status was still contested, as indicated by this racist cartoon by Thomas Nast from 1876, positing an equal status - that is, an equally denigrated status - to two groups he regarded as "ignorant" voters in that year's election.



I'm guessing you've been reading Noel Ignatiev's How the Irish Became White, or something similar, btw.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #24 posted 11/08/18 4:49am

jaawwnn

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It's been on my to-read pile for at least a decade now, still haven't got to it. Sadly, I don't need to read a book to see the racism in day-to-day life around here.

[Edited 11/8/18 4:50am]

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Reply #25 posted 11/08/18 5:21am

Dauphin

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Not black here, but Latino. I would ask the members of his acting community how they feel. They know him and if he deserves the award and if he will use the grant towards it's purpose of helping the community. Sometimes family doesn't mean shared dna, in other words.
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Still it's nice to know, when our bodies wear out, we can get another

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Reply #26 posted 11/08/18 6:19am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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onlyforaminute said:

In some pictures he looks "other" not white or black, in others mixed. But race for the most part isn't determined by your looks but by ancestry many many many people of black parents have not been allowed to freely claim white simply because they look it and enjoy the benefits of looking that way. 2-way street in my opinion. Black people didn't make these rules. As an individual I don't care either way since it doesn't make or break anything in my life. Though from the things I'm reading seems like within a generation or 2 the old US way of thinking will start shifting.

I'd like to challenge more people on that bold sentence. I've heard that many times in discussions of identity. I've heard that used also when black folk justify the continued use of the N word among themselves, in music, etc'

.

I don't care who made the rules, even though a lot of alleged rules were never rules, in 2018 people can define their lives, challenge rules, change rules, overturn rules, set things straight.
That boldened sentence is a very passive take on life. Children also don't make the rules for the house, but when they become adults, their life destiny is in their hands.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #27 posted 11/08/18 8:45am

deebee

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Dauphin said:

Not black here, but Latino. I would ask the members of his acting community how they feel. They know him and if he deserves the award and if he will use the grant towards it's purpose of helping the community. Sometimes family doesn't mean shared dna, in other words.

Yes, I agree with the idea that the contribution he's going to make seems important here, and that 'community' or 'family' often don't involve shared DNA. It's partly what I found interesting about the case: that, after the wave of criticism from media commentators, several people who'd worked with him came out an defended him and testified to his commitment to contributing to Black representation in the arts, etc.

The only thing I'd add about asking his acting community (or any other community) is that it may not get us around the core issue of which claims are credible and why - in the sense that some individuals might take one position and others might take another, with advocates of each appealing to different principles. Someone would, ultimately, still have to adjudicate somehow, based on which principles were felt to be more persuasive.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #28 posted 11/08/18 10:00am

onlyforaminute

deebee said:

onlyforaminute said:

I take all this back. This is all about someone from another country I'm not a part of playing the system because of how strangers treated him in the street. So, with all that said, it all depends on how that country has been running itself as far as racial categorizing goes. These days when it comes to money a lot of things are let to slide.

[Edited 11/7/18 16:07pm]

What changed your mind?



Applying US ways to another country I don't know that well. It's all arbitrary. Just as I said before there are many in Sub-Saharan Africa who do not call themselves "black" that term means something completely different to them, it's not a universal concept set in stone in everybodys mind. If the UK is okay with it, I'm okay with it. But the fact that the people who know him know he's white, he claims white, he only receive negative behavior from those who don't know him, he heads a black acting troupe and applied for a grant as such and performs in black roles, then that's a totally other legal system at work.

"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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Reply #29 posted 11/08/18 10:04am

onlyforaminute

OldFriends4Sale said:

onlyforaminute said:

In some pictures he looks "other" not white or black, in others mixed. But race for the most part isn't determined by your looks but by ancestry many many many people of black parents have not been allowed to freely claim white simply because they look it and enjoy the benefits of looking that way. 2-way street in my opinion. Black people didn't make these rules. As an individual I don't care either way since it doesn't make or break anything in my life. Though from the things I'm reading seems like within a generation or 2 the old US way of thinking will start shifting.

I'd like to challenge more people on that bold sentence. I've heard that many times in discussions of identity. I've heard that used also when black folk justify the continued use of the N word among themselves, in music, etc'

.

I don't care who made the rules, even though a lot of alleged rules were never rules, in 2018 people can define their lives, challenge rules, change rules, overturn rules, set things straight.
That boldened sentence is a very passive take on life. Children also don't make the rules for the house, but when they become adults, their life destiny is in their hands.



Well, you can only control you. You know well enough not everybody in the AA community agrees on all the exact same things.




"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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