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Reply #30 posted 11/04/18 8:44am

Ugot2shakesumt
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OnlyNDaUsa said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


OnlyNDaUsa said:

the thing I hate is when someone says something to suggest that I should not be ALLOWED to eat meat. Forget that!



Well, the good thing is no one (in aggregate) is saying that. That’s not even a minority opinion the real scheme of things.


I am not sure what you mean by "in aggregate" (I do understand what it means I am not sure if your usage is typical or not)

However People Darn Sure want to BAN meat... Even in this topic once the "environment" is invoked they are floating the notion that it should be... radical groups like Food Inc flat out call to ban meat even if they do so in a Jim Crowe like manner. (such as making it cost much more expensive by strict regulation as to price people out) (Many of them are also anti-choice)




What it means is that if one or two people advocate banning pooping and toilets. But that does not mean it’s a real thing that any people in aggregate are considering. It’s just what is clinically called “crazy talk”

Perhaps if we ever have to live in space, then pooping and alternatives to meat and plant life will be a serious thing that should be considered.

[Edited 11/4/18 8:54am]
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #31 posted 11/04/18 8:52am

Ugot2shakesumt
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^
Ok I take all that back.

Having reconsidered, I think we may discover great advancements in nutrition that do not involve living organism, but can be synthesized or created in a Frito-Lay or Nabisco facility.

I think that is a very real possibility at some time in the future. So i take back everything I said about banning meat not being a real possibility.
[Edited 11/4/18 8:53am]
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Reply #32 posted 11/04/18 8:58am

OnlyNDaUsa

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

^ Ok I take all that back. Having reconsidered, I think there may discover great advancements in nutrition that do not involve living organism, but can be synthesized or created in a Frito-Lay or Nabisco facility. I think that is a very real possibility at some time in the future. So i take back everything I said about banning meat not being a real possibility.

lab-created meats are already a thing... but even then so what? Even if there was NO NEED to kill a newborn baby cow for its sweet tender meat... I still might choose to eat it....

the weird part is some of the ones that get all twisted over GMOs are the same that want to make lab created meats like products. (I personally believe someday we will be able to print food-like consumables.)

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #33 posted 11/04/18 9:04am

Ugot2shakesumt
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nd33 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:



I don’t know about that. The way we “all of us” are tearing through this planet I am not sure it matters what we consume will matter to the environment in the long run.
The environment as we’ve known it relied on diversity. A diversity that developed over billions of years are we are wiping it out in a matter of mere generations. Billions of years of species gone in a blink of an eye.

We are the bacteria in a Petri dish. One organism can consume everything in its wake but the outcome is always the same. Humanity as we know it cannot continue this way for very long. I hate to sound like one of those people with a megaphone and cardboard signs telling the end of times, ...but that’s the systematic mathematical course we’re on whether we eat beef or veggies.
...and sadly that would probably be the best thing for the “environment” for life as we know it.
[Edited 11/3/18 21:20pm]


I agree with your points, but your argument comes across as, “it’s too late, so let’s all do whatever the fuck we want”. That’s not very empathetic towards future generations...


I just came across this article written by Jane Goodall on yesterday’s “The Guardian” newspaper. She touches on all the topics I talked about but ends on a more positive and inspiring note.

It’s a good read, check it out!

'The most intellectual creature to ever walk Earth is destroying its only home'
https://www.theguardian.c...-only-home
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #34 posted 11/04/18 9:07am

Ugot2shakesumt
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OnlyNDaUsa said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


^ Ok I take all that back. Having reconsidered, I think there may discover great advancements in nutrition that do not involve living organism, but can be synthesized or created in a Frito-Lay or Nabisco facility. I think that is a very real possibility at some time in the future. So i take back everything I said about banning meat not being a real possibility.


lab-created meats are already a thing... but even then so what? Even if there was NO NEED to kill a newborn baby cow for its sweet tender meat... I still might choose to eat it....

the weird part is some of the ones that get all twisted over GMOs are the same that want to make lab created meats like products. (I personally believe someday we will be able to print food-like consumables.)



Lab created meats are real, but not necessary. What I meant by my retraction was one day it “may” be deemed necessary by a society. Who knows?
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #35 posted 11/04/18 9:17am

maplenpg

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

OnlyNDaUsa said: Well, the good thing is no one (in aggregate) is saying that. That’s not even a minority opinion the real scheme of things.

I am not sure what you mean by "in aggregate" (I do understand what it means I am not sure if your usage is typical or not)

However People Darn Sure want to BAN meat... Even in this topic once the "environment" is invoked they are floating the notion that it should be... radical groups like Food Inc flat out call to ban meat even if they do so in a Jim Crowe like manner. (such as making it cost much more expensive by strict regulation as to price people out) (Many of them are also anti-choice)

The vast majority of vegans/vegetarians have no interest in trying to ban meat, merely to educate and try to ensure people know the realities of the meat trade. I subscribe to a vegan magazine, have a vegan step-daughter, and regularly visit vegan sites, restaurants etc... I have never once heard that meat should be banned. Then again...I'm not in the US. I've never heard of Food Inc either. I would however support the banning of certain 'cheap' meats that involve no quality of life at all for the animal. Cheapness shouldn't come before welfare (this goes for trade with humans too).

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #36 posted 11/04/18 9:35am

Ugot2shakesumt
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maplenpg said:



OnlyNDaUsa said:




Ugot2shakesumthin said:


OnlyNDaUsa said: Well, the good thing is no one (in aggregate) is saying that. That’s not even a minority opinion the real scheme of things.


I am not sure what you mean by "in aggregate" (I do understand what it means I am not sure if your usage is typical or not)

However People Darn Sure want to BAN meat... Even in this topic once the "environment" is invoked they are floating the notion that it should be... radical groups like Food Inc flat out call to ban meat even if they do so in a Jim Crowe like manner. (such as making it cost much more expensive by strict regulation as to price people out) (Many of them are also anti-choice)




The vast majority of vegans/vegetarians have no interest in trying to ban meat, merely to educate and try to ensure people know the realities of the meat trade. I subscribe to a vegan magazine, have a vegan step-daughter, and regularly visit vegan sites, restaurants etc... I have never once heard that meat should be banned. Then again...I'm not in the US. I've never heard of Food Inc either. I would however support the banning of certain 'cheap' meats that involve no quality of life at all for the animal. Cheapness shouldn't come before welfare (this goes for trade with humans too).




Yep, it’s bullshit. But that’s just the way right wingers like to talk. Everything is smeared in bullshit
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #37 posted 11/04/18 10:16am

NorthC

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Good tasting good is all about the cook, complimentary combinations and the spices. You can fry and old shoe in butter with great spices and it will taste fantastic!
I don’t want to live off footwear as it may not be too healthy, but I’m absolutely positive someone can cook a yummy moist and tasty old boot.

Here's the recipe: "Slice the leather into pieces, then soak and beat and rub between stones to tenderise. Scrape off the hair and roast or grill. Cut into smaller pieces and serve with lots of water."
When buccaneer Henry Morgan's men were marching through the Panamanian jungle in 1670 to plunder Panama City, they were so hungry that they were reduced to eating leather, so you're right, it can be eaten. Imagine what these men with muskets in their hands did when they saw that the Spaniards tried to fight them by stampeding a herd of cattle...
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #38 posted 11/04/18 10:39am

onlyforaminute

I've never bashed a vegan. I've seen people do it but in most cases these were other things involved with the particular person or persons that causes some of the bashing. Just because someone is doing all positive in one area of their life doesn't really mean they are truly enlightened in other areas of their life.
"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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Reply #39 posted 11/04/18 10:50am

maplenpg

NorthC said:

The few times that I've had vegan food, I just didn't like it at all. I found it tasteless. I've had great vegetarian food in Indian restaurants with a glass of milk to go with it-and vegans don't even want me to have that. Even if you don't want to kill animals, it's perfectly normal for humans to consume eggs or milk. I've heard of festivals where they only want to serve vegetarian food, because "we care about the environment". Well, so do I, but I also like to decide for myself what I eat. And that's what I dislike about vegetarianism/veganism: there is a preacy side to it and that's what Sitwell was reacting to. And as for the issue of climate change, you might think that becoming a vegan is going to help stopping that, but in that case, you're mostly busy with keeping your own conscience clean. In the meantime, countries like China and India are becoming richer and people will want to eat meat because they can afford it. And step into an airplane to take a holiday in Europe. We already see a rise in mass tourism in Holland and I'm sure it's not different in other countries. Becoming vegan isn't going to save the world.

I have to say, I find your post confusing. Has a vegan ever said to you that they don't want you to have a glass of milk with your curry? Ever? I doubt it. Most would applaud you for choosing the vegetarian/vegan option to eat in the first place. It's your choice if you want milk with it or not.

Second, and I say this as someone who does consume dairy products, so I am aware of my own hypocrisy, but there is nothing normal about consuming cows milk. We are the only animal on earth that doesn't ever wean off milk and also we are the only animal that consumes the milk of another species. There is a reason newborn human babies can't have cows milk, and that is because breast milk is for babies and cows milk is for calves. Our problem is we just don't ever want to give up the titty juice, not that it is 'normal' to consume it. At least admit that, even if you carry on drinkng the white stuff.

As for being preachy, maybe, but so many meat-eaters are in complete denial about the meat trade. At least face what you're doing and be realistic about the cruelty involved. Know what you are supporting when you buy the cheapest chicken in the supermarket etc... Watch the videos of the slaughterhouses etc... and if you still want to eat meat, then that is your choice, just don't be an ostrich about what you're putting in your mouth.

Lastly, no, being a vegan is not going to change the world, no-one ever said it would, but if more people did have more of a conscience then the animals might, just might, do a little better out of it than they do at this current moment when price is all that matters.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #40 posted 11/04/18 10:55am

maplenpg

onlyforaminute said:

I've never bashed a vegan. I've seen people do it but in most cases these were other things involved with the particular person or persons that causes some of the bashing. Just because someone is doing all positive in one area of their life doesn't really mean they are truly enlightened in other areas of their life.

I completely agree with this, and I think most people, regardless of their dietary choices, would admit they are flawed in some respect. And no-one knows it all - I always say that they more I know, the more I realise just how much I don't know. But in the case of the sacked Waitrose editor, and the Daily Mail columnist, they are judging people purely on their dietary choices, and I think that in itself is wrong. Whether he deserved to lose his job - I'm not so sure.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #41 posted 11/04/18 11:08am

maplenpg

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

nd33 said:
I agree with your points, but your argument comes across as, “it’s too late, so let’s all do whatever the fuck we want”. That’s not very empathetic towards future generations...
I just came across this article written by Jane Goodall on yesterday’s “The Guardian” newspaper. She touches on all the topics I talked about but ends on a more positive and inspiring note. It’s a good read, check it out! 'The most intellectual creature to ever walk Earth is destroying its only home' https://www.theguardian.c...-only-home

Thanks for this. A quote from the final paragraph:


Yet, I believe we have a small window of opportunity when, if we get together, we can start to heal some of the harm we have inflicted. Everywhere, where young people understand the problems and are empowered to take action – when we listen to their voices, they are making a difference. With our superior intellect we are coming up with technological solutions to help us live in greater harmony with nature and reduce our own ecological footprints. We have a choice each day as to what we buy, eat and wear.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #42 posted 11/04/18 11:55am

Ugot2shakesumt
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maplenpg said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


nd33 said:
I agree with your points, but your argument comes across as, “it’s too late, so let’s all do whatever the fuck we want”. That’s not very empathetic towards future generations...

I just came across this article written by Jane Goodall on yesterday’s “The Guardian” newspaper. She touches on all the topics I talked about but ends on a more positive and inspiring note. It’s a good read, check it out! 'The most intellectual creature to ever walk Earth is destroying its only home' https://www.theguardian.c...-only-home

Thanks for this. A quote from the final paragraph:



Yet, I believe we have a small window of opportunity when, if we get together, we can start to heal some of the harm we have inflicted. Everywhere, where young people understand the problems and are empowered to take action – when we listen to their voices, they are making a difference. With our superior intellect we are coming up with technological solutions to help us live in greater harmony with nature and reduce our own ecological footprints. We have a choice each day as to what we buy, eat and wear.



You know, it pains me to know all the species with all their own biological prowess to have adapted to survive and thrive for millions of years in their own unique specific ways, only for us to wipe them out for a fleeting convenience. There is so much humanity can learn from every single creature and organism that has ever existed. So much to learn, so much that would enrich us spiritually and medically and technologically. It’s such a shame. It’s not too late to chill on our destruction but it’s too late to bring a lot of it back.
[Edited 11/4/18 11:58am]
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #43 posted 11/04/18 12:24pm

onlyforaminute

maplenpg said:



onlyforaminute said:


I've never bashed a vegan. I've seen people do it but in most cases these were other things involved with the particular person or persons that causes some of the bashing. Just because someone is doing all positive in one area of their life doesn't really mean they are truly enlightened in other areas of their life.

I completely agree with this, and I think most people, regardless of their dietary choices, would admit they are flawed in some respect. And no-one knows it all - I always say that they more I know, the more I realise just how much I don't know. But in the case of the sacked Waitrose editor, and the Daily Mail columnist, they are judging people purely on their dietary choices, and I think that in itself is wrong. Whether he deserved to lose his job - I'm not so sure.




I think it is weird to just fire someone over their dietary differences s, I mean that's not some new thing people not eating certain things based on their own convictions. Laws have been put into place to limit that kind of thing.
"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

- Seneca, On Anger 3.31.3
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