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Thread started 11/03/18 5:07am

maplenpg

Vegan bashing - just fun or a sign of something darker?

So I'm not sure how I feel about this one. Political correctness gone mad or a valid reason to leave your job?

Waitrose magazine editor William Sitwell was approached by a vegan freelance writer regarding including more vegan contributions to the magazine. His response to her email was to suggest that a series should be written on 'killing vegans one by one' and to 'force-feed them meat' (both emails in full here). He has since resigned from his post with immediate effect (link to one article here).


Whilst I agree with some that losing his job might seem a harsh, especially given that he said it was a joke in a private email, I also agree with Selene Nelson (the freelance writer) that it does say something about wider society when a group of people who simply don't eat or purchase animal products are treated with such hostility. I have seen some of this hostility first hand with people accusing me of being a 'militant' vegan when I've simply asked a cafe if they have an alternative to cows milk (I'm not vegan (veggie for decades), but I am definitely very conscious of farming methods and the choices I make regarding animal welfare).


I think that some 'militant' vegans haven't helped the cause, but the majority are lovely people who are really grateful that society is finally accepting them rather than treating them as outcasts, are they fair game to say they should be killed? Or force-fed meat? After all vegetarianism is barely given a second glance nowadays, so why does veganism provoke such strong reactions? Thoughts?

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #1 posted 11/03/18 5:57am

jaawwnn

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I've been vegetarian for half my life, the endless questions can grate but this man should not have lost his job. There's nothing politically correct about forcing someone to lose their livelihood. Better punishment would have been forcing him to write about vegan food for a few months.

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Reply #2 posted 11/03/18 7:54am

nd33

I don’t think he should’ve lost his job for that. I don’t think Megan Kelly should’ve either. We all say stupid shit here and there. Our livelihoods shouldn’t be dictated by our stupid moments. If people become too thin skinned, they won’t be able to survive when the shit REALLY hits the fan in their lives.
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
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Reply #3 posted 11/03/18 8:25am

maplenpg

jaawwnn said:

I've been vegetarian for half my life, the endless questions can grate but this man should not have lost his job. There's nothing politically correct about forcing someone to lose their livelihood. Better punishment would have been forcing him to write about vegan food for a few months.

I agree. However it does seem that it was forced by Waitrose and not by upset vegans, which is interesting in itself.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #4 posted 11/03/18 8:29am

maplenpg

nd33 said:

I don’t think he should’ve lost his job for that. I don’t think Megan Kelly should’ve either. We all say stupid shit here and there. Our livelihoods shouldn’t be dictated by our stupid moments. If people become too thin skinned, they won’t be able to survive when the shit REALLY hits the fan in their lives.

But that is what is interesting. I don't think anyone was offended. More that they questioned why he was being so angry and hostile towards vegans, who had displayed no hostility towards him. It was the company that decided he overstepped the mark. They decided his livelihood would be dictated by his stupid shit.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #5 posted 11/03/18 10:38am

OnlyNDaUsa

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I do not care what someone eats... and as long as they do not get too obnoxious with talking about it or whatever I a cool... but I will not change any of my habits when I am around them. But I have never been asked to...



but what this guy said was out of line. So him being fired or given the option to resign is something up to his bosses.

[Edited 11/3/18 10:50am]

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #6 posted 11/03/18 11:52am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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Americans as a whole are known for our unhealthy diets. Whether just junk food or fad diets. We as a whole have zero gravitas when talking about diets.
[Edited 11/3/18 11:52am]
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #7 posted 11/03/18 12:00pm

maplenpg

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I do not care what someone eats... and as long as they do not get too obnoxious with talking about it or whatever I a cool... but I will not change any of my habits when I am around them. But I have never been asked to...



but what this guy said was out of line. So him being fired or given the option to resign is something up to his bosses.

[Edited 11/3/18 10:50am]

And this is where I struggle. If he had said kill Jews one by one, or black people, or immigrants, or muslims, or disabled people (I could go on), then I would have absolutely have said he needed to go. Yet, I feel losing his job was harsh in this case, and I'm not entirely sure why him saying it about vegans is any different.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #8 posted 11/03/18 12:03pm

maplenpg

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Americans as a whole are known for our unhealthy diets. Whether just junk food or fad diets. We as a whole have zero gravitas when talking about diets. [Edited 11/3/18 11:52am]

There is a current trend for veganism here in the UK. Sadly some of the fast vegan food that is hitting our shelves at an alarming rate is far from healthy.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #9 posted 11/03/18 12:19pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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maplenpg said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


Americans as a whole are known for our unhealthy diets. Whether just junk food or fad diets. We as a whole have zero gravitas when talking about diets. [Edited 11/3/18 11:52am]

There is a current trend for veganism here in the UK. Sadly some of the fast vegan food that is hitting our shelves at an alarming rate is far from healthy.



Yeah and sadly a lot of the “science” as to what constitutes “healthy” is being propagated by the food industries. A lot of the “studies” are being underwritten by those who want something positive said about their products. Here in the US we have subsidized corn for a long time and used it EVERYTHING with shady studies telling us how good it is for us that everything we eat has corn in it including our meat.

I have no hard opinion as it’s a first world problem for us that we as individuals need to think about before we stuff our mouths.
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #10 posted 11/03/18 3:32pm

purplethunder3
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I've never had a problem with vegans, vegetarians, or meat-eaters. I've been both a vegetarian and a meat-eater. It's based on life choices and not dogmatic ideologies; nature designed us to eat both. shrug My only problem is with militant people trying to force their ideologies (and food choices) on other people...

"If you're living, you've got nothing left to prove..."
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Reply #11 posted 11/03/18 8:32pm

nd33

maplenpg said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


Americans as a whole are known for our unhealthy diets. Whether just junk food or fad diets. We as a whole have zero gravitas when talking about diets. [Edited 11/3/18 11:52am]

There is a current trend for veganism here in the UK. Sadly some of the fast vegan food that is hitting our shelves at an alarming rate is far from healthy.



But still, every time someone eats something plant based instead of animal based, it’s a win for the environment.
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
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Reply #12 posted 11/03/18 8:49pm

purplethunder3
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nd33 said:

maplenpg said:

There is a current trend for veganism here in the UK. Sadly some of the fast vegan food that is hitting our shelves at an alarming rate is far from healthy.

But still, every time someone eats something plant based instead of animal based, it’s a win for the environment.

No, the "win" for the environment was when people like both sets of my grandparents were able to own their small farms, grow their own food in gardens, raise healthy animals that ate healthy natural food in order for those folks to use as their own food (cows, chickens, turkeys, and pigs) or to sell to people in the local vicinity. Treating the animals with respect while keeping in mind that they were also for necessary consumption in order for the family to survive; humans, whether you like it or not, were designed by nature as ominivores. As are many other animal species. It is a choice what you consume. Too bad, whether described as animal or plant based these days, most of the food products these days are so far removed from nature and full of unnatural additives, that none of them are completely safe.

"If you're living, you've got nothing left to prove..."
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Reply #13 posted 11/03/18 9:03pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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nd33 said:

maplenpg said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


Americans as a whole are known for our unhealthy diets. Whether just junk food or fad diets. We as a whole have zero gravitas when talking about diets. [Edited 11/3/18 11:52am]

There is a current trend for veganism here in the UK. Sadly some of the fast vegan food that is hitting our shelves at an alarming rate is far from healthy.



But still, every time someone eats something plant based instead of animal based, it’s a win for the environment.


I don’t know about that. The way we “all of us” are tearing through this planet I am not sure it matters what we consume will matter to the environment in the long run.
The environment as we’ve known it relied on diversity. A diversity that developed over billions of years are we are wiping it out in a matter of mere generations. Billions of years of species gone in a blink of an eye.

We are the bacteria in a Petri dish. One organism can consume everything in its wake but the outcome is always the same. Humanity as we know it cannot continue this way for very long. I hate to sound like one of those people with a megaphone and cardboard signs telling the end of times, ...but that’s the systematic mathematical course we’re on whether we eat beef or veggies.
...and sadly that would probably be the best thing for the “environment” for life as we know it.
[Edited 11/3/18 21:20pm]
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #14 posted 11/03/18 11:21pm

nd33

purplethunder3121 said:



nd33 said:


maplenpg said:


There is a current trend for veganism here in the UK. Sadly some of the fast vegan food that is hitting our shelves at an alarming rate is far from healthy.



But still, every time someone eats something plant based instead of animal based, it’s a win for the environment.

No, the "win" for the environment was when people like both sets of my grandparents were able to own their small farms, grow their own food in gardens, raise healthy animals that ate healthy natural food in order for those folks to use as their own food (cows, chickens, turkeys, and pigs) or to sell to people in the local vicinity. Treating the animals with respect while keeping in mind that they were also for necessary consumption in order for the family to survive; humans, whether you like it or not, were designed by nature as ominivores. As are many other animal species. It is a choice what you consume. Too bad, whether described as animal or plant based these days, most of the food products these days are so far removed from nature and full of unnatural additives, that none of them are completely safe.



You’re missing the point. I’m just stating the fact. Again, every time someone eats something plant based instead of animal based, it’s a win for the environment.

“A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use,”
https://www.theguardian.c...t-on-earth

I’m not a vegan, but I’ve been steadily cutting back on animal food products for the last 5 years because of environmental impact.
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
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Reply #15 posted 11/03/18 11:24pm

nd33

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

nd33 said:



But still, every time someone eats something plant based instead of animal based, it’s a win for the environment.


I don’t know about that. The way we “all of us” are tearing through this planet I am not sure it matters what we consume will matter to the environment in the long run.
The environment as we’ve known it relied on diversity. A diversity that developed over billions of years are we are wiping it out in a matter of mere generations. Billions of years of species gone in a blink of an eye.

We are the bacteria in a Petri dish. One organism can consume everything in its wake but the outcome is always the same. Humanity as we know it cannot continue this way for very long. I hate to sound like one of those people with a megaphone and cardboard signs telling the end of times, ...but that’s the systematic mathematical course we’re on whether we eat beef or veggies.
...and sadly that would probably be the best thing for the “environment” for life as we know it.
[Edited 11/3/18 21:20pm]


I agree with your points, but your argument comes across as, “it’s too late, so let’s all do whatever the fuck we want”. That’s not very empathetic towards future generations...
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
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Reply #16 posted 11/03/18 11:42pm

purplethunder3
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nd33 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

No, the "win" for the environment was when people like both sets of my grandparents were able to own their small farms, grow their own food in gardens, raise healthy animals that ate healthy natural food in order for those folks to use as their own food (cows, chickens, turkeys, and pigs) or to sell to people in the local vicinity. Treating the animals with respect while keeping in mind that they were also for necessary consumption in order for the family to survive; humans, whether you like it or not, were designed by nature as ominivores. As are many other animal species. It is a choice what you consume. Too bad, whether described as animal or plant based these days, most of the food products these days are so far removed from nature and full of unnatural additives, that none of them are completely safe.

You’re missing the point. I’m just stating the fact. Again, every time someone eats something plant based instead of animal based, it’s a win for the environment. “A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use,” https://www.theguardian.c...t-on-earth I’m not a vegan, but I’ve been steadily cutting back on animal food products for the last 5 years because of environmental impact.

No, you have obviously missed the entire point of my post...

"If you're living, you've got nothing left to prove..."
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Reply #17 posted 11/03/18 11:50pm

nd33

purplethunder3121 said:



nd33 said:


purplethunder3121 said:


No, the "win" for the environment was when people like both sets of my grandparents were able to own their small farms, grow their own food in gardens, raise healthy animals that ate healthy natural food in order for those folks to use as their own food (cows, chickens, turkeys, and pigs) or to sell to people in the local vicinity. Treating the animals with respect while keeping in mind that they were also for necessary consumption in order for the family to survive; humans, whether you like it or not, were designed by nature as ominivores. As are many other animal species. It is a choice what you consume. Too bad, whether described as animal or plant based these days, most of the food products these days are so far removed from nature and full of unnatural additives, that none of them are completely safe.



You’re missing the point. I’m just stating the fact. Again, every time someone eats something plant based instead of animal based, it’s a win for the environment. “A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use,” https://www.theguardian.c...t-on-earth I’m not a vegan, but I’ve been steadily cutting back on animal food products for the last 5 years because of environmental impact.

No, you have obviously missed the entire point of my post...



Ummm...you were responding to me LOL!

Anyways, you were still advocating animal farming, ethical or not, it still has a large environmental impact. Eating less animal products is better for the environment whether you and I like it or not.
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
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Reply #18 posted 11/03/18 11:54pm

nd33

purplethunder3121 said:



nd33 said:


purplethunder3121 said:


No, the "win" for the environment was when people like both sets of my grandparents were able to own their small farms, grow their own food in gardens, raise healthy animals that ate healthy natural food in order for those folks to use as their own food (cows, chickens, turkeys, and pigs) or to sell to people in the local vicinity. Treating the animals with respect while keeping in mind that they were also for necessary consumption in order for the family to survive; humans, whether you like it or not, were designed by nature as ominivores. As are many other animal species. It is a choice what you consume. Too bad, whether described as animal or plant based these days, most of the food products these days are so far removed from nature and full of unnatural additives, that none of them are completely safe.



You’re missing the point. I’m just stating the fact. Again, every time someone eats something plant based instead of animal based, it’s a win for the environment. “A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use,” https://www.theguardian.c...t-on-earth I’m not a vegan, but I’ve been steadily cutting back on animal food products for the last 5 years because of environmental impact.

No, you have obviously missed the entire point of my post...



BTW, for the animal farming that humans do do, obviously what you’re describing is a good way of going about it.
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
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Reply #19 posted 11/04/18 12:03am

purplethunder3
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nd33 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

No, you have obviously missed the entire point of my post...

Ummm...you were responding to me LOL! Anyways, you were still advocating animal farming, ethical or not, it still has a large environmental impact. Eating less animal products is better for the environment whether you and I like it or not.

Did you even read what I posted? eek I said I have no problem with the choices that people make in regards to what they eat; nature made us ominvores, so we have a choice. If your choice is to not eat meat, fine. If your choice is to eat meat, fine. My point is that if people were still in tune with nature they would be choosing either/or/both options due to their environment and circumstances. You sound like someone who has never actually had to plant a garden, milk a cow, get eggs from a chicken, and then can and freeze what you get from the environment (like on a farm) to last for the rest of the year... Good luck to you. Better check those store-bought "vegan" products...

"If you're living, you've got nothing left to prove..."
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Reply #20 posted 11/04/18 1:19am

maplenpg

purplethunder3121 said:

nd33 said:

purplethunder3121 said: Ummm...you were responding to me LOL! Anyways, you were still advocating animal farming, ethical or not, it still has a large environmental impact. Eating less animal products is better for the environment whether you and I like it or not.

Did you even read what I posted? eek I said I have no problem with the choices that people make in regards to what they eat; nature made us ominvores, so we have a choice. If your choice is to not eat meat, fine. If your choice is to eat meat, fine. My point is that if people were still in tune with nature they would be choosing either/or/both options due to their environment and circumstances. You sound like someone who has never actually had to plant a garden, milk a cow, get eggs from a chicken, and then can and freeze what you get from the environment (like on a farm) to last for the rest of the year... Good luck to you. Better check those store-bought "vegan" products...

I actually think you both have valid points. Yes, it would be brilliant if we could all be self-sustaining, grow our own vegetables, keep our own animals for meat (if you choose) etc..., and yes, it would be great for the environment, but we have to remember that the world is not idyllic, hell there's a lot of people don't have gardens anymore, let alone a garden big enough to be self-sustaining. I live in a farming village and see both commercial farming and people keeping animals and growing vegetables for themselves (and often their neighbours), they view hunting as a way of obtaining 'wild' food and, if my dog catches a bird, they constantly question why we don't eat it, or at least bring it for a neighbour to eat (I don't, I get upset enough that he's killed it without then thinking of my neighbours eating it). But I grew up in a city, where someone keeping a cow, or even chickens, would have been unheard of. Where even growing herbs or rhubarb in your garden was considered 'new age'. And food had to come from shops as there were few berries or apples to pick, and there were huge waiting lists for the few allotments in the area. As a result we started eating differently, choosing cheap over quality etc... and that has continued for decades now.

ND33 is right. Modern farming methods have a huge impact on the environment, not helped by our ever increasing demand for cheap meat, with complete disregard as to its welfare. The simplist way to begin to reduce this is to cut down on meat intake. I often ask my parents if they really need meat in their breakfast, lunch and dinner. For sure, those that kept, killed and ate their own animals would not have eaten this much meat. And so we should be encouraging people to cut down on meat products, because going back in time to a self-sustaining way of life is simply not going happen.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #21 posted 11/04/18 1:50am

maplenpg

Some more vegan bashing in today's Daily Mail (enuff said):



Stand up to the vegan terrorists, says food writer ROSE PRINCE who has suffered the bile of lifestyle extremists

https://www.dailymail.co....RINCE.html



EDIT to include some of the comments underneath the article:



"Behead every single person whose ancestors dared to eat meat and, by so doing, ensured the miserable existence of such people.!"

"They're only Vegans until they're at home alone with the curtains closed."

"They are the worst kind of social justice warriors."

"Vegans are aggressive and try to browbeat people to their way of life and thinking. People have a choice to eat meat or not and should not be harassed by the vegan brigade. Live your own life and leave others to live theirs."

[Edited 11/4/18 1:57am]

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #22 posted 11/04/18 1:59am

purplethunder3
121

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maplenpg said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Did you even read what I posted? eek I said I have no problem with the choices that people make in regards to what they eat; nature made us ominvores, so we have a choice. If your choice is to not eat meat, fine. If your choice is to eat meat, fine. My point is that if people were still in tune with nature they would be choosing either/or/both options due to their environment and circumstances. You sound like someone who has never actually had to plant a garden, milk a cow, get eggs from a chicken, and then can and freeze what you get from the environment (like on a farm) to last for the rest of the year... Good luck to you. Better check those store-bought "vegan" products...

I actually think you both have valid points. Yes, it would be brilliant if we could all be self-sustaining, grow our own vegetables, keep our own animals for meat (if you choose) etc..., and yes, it would be great for the environment, but we have to remember that the world is not idyllic, hell there's a lot of people don't have gardens anymore, let alone a garden big enough to be self-sustaining. I live in a farming village and see both commercial farming and people keeping animals and growing vegetables for themselves (and often their neighbours), they view hunting as a way of obtaining 'wild' food and, if my dog catches a bird, they constantly question why we don't eat it, or at least bring it for a neighbour to eat (I don't, I get upset enough that he's killed it without then thinking of my neighbours eating it). But I grew up in a city, where someone keeping a cow, or even chickens, would have been unheard of. Where even growing herbs or rhubarb in your garden was considered 'new age'. And food had to come from shops as there were few berries or apples to pick, and there were huge waiting lists for the few allotments in the area. As a result we started eating differently, choosing cheap over quality etc... and that has continued for decades now.

ND33 is right. Modern farming methods have a huge impact on the environment, not helped by our ever increasing demand for cheap meat, with complete disregard as to its welfare. The simplist way to begin to reduce this is to cut down on meat intake. I often ask my parents if they really need meat in their breakfast, lunch and dinner. For sure, those that kept, killed and ate their own animals would not have eaten this much meat. And so we should be encouraging people to cut down on meat products, because going back in time to a self-sustaining way of life is simply not going happen.

I actually agree with you on most points; the whole problem shifting to a vegan/ vegetarian diet these days presents many of the same problems as a meat-based diet. Too many of of our veggies/ fruits are "frankenstein" products and aren't any more healthy than the meat products... Sad commentary on the state of food today...

"If you're living, you've got nothing left to prove..."
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Reply #23 posted 11/04/18 2:07am

maplenpg

purplethunder3121 said:

maplenpg said:

I actually think you both have valid points. Yes, it would be brilliant if we could all be self-sustaining, grow our own vegetables, keep our own animals for meat (if you choose) etc..., and yes, it would be great for the environment, but we have to remember that the world is not idyllic, hell there's a lot of people don't have gardens anymore, let alone a garden big enough to be self-sustaining. I live in a farming village and see both commercial farming and people keeping animals and growing vegetables for themselves (and often their neighbours), they view hunting as a way of obtaining 'wild' food and, if my dog catches a bird, they constantly question why we don't eat it, or at least bring it for a neighbour to eat (I don't, I get upset enough that he's killed it without then thinking of my neighbours eating it). But I grew up in a city, where someone keeping a cow, or even chickens, would have been unheard of. Where even growing herbs or rhubarb in your garden was considered 'new age'. And food had to come from shops as there were few berries or apples to pick, and there were huge waiting lists for the few allotments in the area. As a result we started eating differently, choosing cheap over quality etc... and that has continued for decades now.

ND33 is right. Modern farming methods have a huge impact on the environment, not helped by our ever increasing demand for cheap meat, with complete disregard as to its welfare. The simplist way to begin to reduce this is to cut down on meat intake. I often ask my parents if they really need meat in their breakfast, lunch and dinner. For sure, those that kept, killed and ate their own animals would not have eaten this much meat. And so we should be encouraging people to cut down on meat products, because going back in time to a self-sustaining way of life is simply not going happen.

I actually agree with you on most points; the whole problem shifting to a vegan/ vegetarian diet these days presents many of the same problems as a meat-based diet. Too many of of our veggies/ fruits are "frankenstein" products and aren't any more healthy than the meat products... Sad commentary on the state of food today...

I don't have such a problem with fruit and veg, but some veggie and vegan products are processed and mass-produced and, in my opinion, shouldn't be touted as a healthy alternative, maybe just as animal-free (I'm not even sure cruelty-free applies as they are mass produced in poorer countries). I wish organic was more mainstream too. I have to say, with regard to frankenstein foods, that I don't want a return to seeded grapes though - that's one frankenstein food I love (seeded watermelons are on their way out too - yipee)!

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #24 posted 11/04/18 6:42am

OnlyNDaUsa

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the thing I hate is when someone says something to suggest that I should not be ALLOWED to eat meat. Forget that!

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #25 posted 11/04/18 6:46am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

the thing I hate is when someone says something to suggest that I should not be ALLOWED to eat meat. Forget that!



Well, the good thing is no one (in aggregate) is saying that. That’s not even a minority opinion the real scheme of things.
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #26 posted 11/04/18 6:53am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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nd33 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:



I don’t know about that. The way we “all of us” are tearing through this planet I am not sure it matters what we consume will matter to the environment in the long run.
The environment as we’ve known it relied on diversity. A diversity that developed over billions of years are we are wiping it out in a matter of mere generations. Billions of years of species gone in a blink of an eye.

We are the bacteria in a Petri dish. One organism can consume everything in its wake but the outcome is always the same. Humanity as we know it cannot continue this way for very long. I hate to sound like one of those people with a megaphone and cardboard signs telling the end of times, ...but that’s the systematic mathematical course we’re on whether we eat beef or veggies.
...and sadly that would probably be the best thing for the “environment” for life as we know it.
[Edited 11/3/18 21:20pm]


I agree with your points, but your argument comes across as, “it’s too late, so let’s all do whatever the fuck we want”. That’s not very empathetic towards future generations...


Yes I know, and I do care for future generations of course. When I think about it I feel like a hypocrite becasue I myself am part of the bacteria in the Petri dish consuming everything in sight. Every organism wants to live and thrive. We just happen to be the best at it.

As with MRSA, I sometimes hear about a super antibiotic resistant bacteria that will wipe everything out. The truth is, that super bacteria already exists. It’s us!
[Edited 11/4/18 6:53am]
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #27 posted 11/04/18 7:46am

NorthC

The few times that I've had vegan food, I just didn't like it at all. I found it tasteless. I've had great vegetarian food in Indian restaurants with a glass of milk to go with it-and vegans don't even want me to have that. Even if you don't want to kill animals, it's perfectly normal for humans to consume eggs or milk. I've heard of festivals where they only want to serve vegetarian food, because "we care about the environment". Well, so do I, but I also like to decide for myself what I eat. And that's what I dislike about vegetarianism/veganism: there is a preacy side to it and that's what Sitwell was reacting to.
And as for the issue of climate change, you might think that becoming a vegan is going to help stopping that, but in that case, you're mostly busy with keeping your own conscience clean. In the meantime, countries like China and India are becoming richer and people will want to eat meat because they can afford it. And step into an airplane to take a holiday in Europe. We already see a rise in mass tourism in Holland and I'm sure it's not different in other countries. Becoming vegan isn't going to save the world.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #28 posted 11/04/18 8:08am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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Good tasting good is all about the cook, complimentary combinations and the spices. You can fry and old shoe in butter with great spices and it will taste fantastic!
I don’t want to live off footwear as it may not be too healthy, but I’m absolutely positive someone can cook a yummy moist and tasty old boot.
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #29 posted 11/04/18 8:34am

OnlyNDaUsa

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

the thing I hate is when someone says something to suggest that I should not be ALLOWED to eat meat. Forget that!

Well, the good thing is no one (in aggregate) is saying that. That’s not even a minority opinion the real scheme of things.

I am not sure what you mean by "in aggregate" (I do understand what it means I am not sure if your usage is typical or not)

However People Darn Sure want to BAN meat... Even in this topic once the "environment" is invoked they are floating the notion that it should be... radical groups like Food Inc flat out call to ban meat even if they do so in a Jim Crowe like manner. (such as making it cost much more expensive by strict regulation as to price people out) (Many of them are also anti-choice)

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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