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Thread started 08/28/18 5:29pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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Non American orgers, how is the Trump craziness playing in your country?

As an American, I think this is all bonkers, I can only imagine we are a laughing stock. What is the general consensus where you are from?
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #1 posted 08/29/18 3:26am

Lianachan

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Laughing stock is about right over here, aye.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge"" ~ Isaac Asimov
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Reply #2 posted 08/29/18 3:48am

EmmaMcG

Yeah we think it's crazy that a supposedly educated country like America voted in Trump. Then again, this is the same country that voted in Dubya. Twice. So maybe not a big surprise. Especially because he plays into the American stereotype of being a clueless, overweight gun nut.
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Reply #3 posted 08/29/18 3:49am

hausofmoi7

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These are comments from Australias current federal politicans and sitting senators.
Trump would fit in well.



Peter Dutton said that people in Melbourne are scared of going out because of "African gang violence"


In March 2018 Dutton made calls to treat white South African farmers, as refugees, stating that "they need help from a civilised country".
- the politican who made the above comment about granting special visas for white South Africans is the immigration Minister, who is currently detaining black and brown refugees in concentration camps and refuses to allow them into Australia.


In November 2016, Dutton said it was a mistake by the Malcolm Fraser administration to have admitted Lebanese Muslim immigrants.


"We're bringing in people from South Africa at the moment. There's a huge amount coming into Australia, who have diseases; they've got AIDS,
They are of no benefit to this country whatsoever; they'll never be able to work.
And what my main concern is, is the diseases that they're bringing in and yet no one is saying or doing anything about it." - Pauline Hanson told AAP.


Indigenous Australians are the most incarcerated by percentage of their population (2,346 per 100,000).
In addition to having the highest rate of incarceration in the world, black/indigenous Australians are also faced with the issue of dying in police custody.






.
[Edited 8/29/18 9:29am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #4 posted 08/29/18 4:14am

hausofmoi7

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The new Australian prime minister recorded the following message for refugees detained in concentration camps

Go Home, you are not welcomed (unless you are a white south african)







.
[Edited 8/29/18 7:44am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #5 posted 08/29/18 5:30am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

I live in Australia This is just a small sample to grasp the right wing nature of the country. These are comments from Australias current federal government politicans and sitting senators. This is Australia. Peter Dutton said that people in Melbourne are scared of going out because of "African gang violence" In March 2018 Dutton made calls to treat white South African farmers, as refugees, stating that "they need help from a civilised country". - the minister who made the above comment about granting special visas for white South Africans, is the same minister who is detaining black and brown refugees in concentration camps and refuses to allow them into Australia. Both sides of politics support his decision to hold refugees in concentration camps. In November 2016, Dutton said it was a mistake by the Malcolm Fraser administration to have admitted Lebanese Muslim immigrants. "We're bringing in people from South Africa at the moment. There's a huge amount coming into Australia, who have diseases; they've got AIDS, They are of no benefit to this country whatsoever; they'll never be able to work. And what my main concern is, is the diseases that they're bringing in and yet no one is saying or doing anything about it." - Pauline Hanson told AAP. Indigenous Australians are the most incarcerated by percentage of their population (2,346 per 100,000). In addition to being the most incarcerated people on earth, black/indigenous Australians have a high rate of also dying in police custody. . [Edited 8/29/18 5:09am]

.

Sure the rise of the lunatic fringe far right wing is not limited to the US and it exists in Australia and many other countries.

.

On answer to the OP's question: In normal mainstream Australia, Trump is seen by most as making the US an embarrassment in ways that even GW Bush failled to do. It is also a warning that we too can go this way. I travel the country talking to people in many different technical, industrial and research fields. All but the minority far right conservatives within the Liberal Party plus small parties like One Nation, Australian Conservatives, United Australia Party (formerly Palmer United Party) and the independent Bob Katter are united in being appaulled by Trump. Most see him as having done exactly the opposite to making America great again. The North Korean meeting is about the only thing that impressed people here - more about the possibilities than the actual outcome.

.

The one risk is that we see the same forces - the mainstream political parties have become faceless regurgitators of the party message in cohoots with opinion based news media and unable to engage with, and inspire the people - even on their own side. We are seeing these parties break up and lose support - with compulsory and preferencual voting third paries and independents can have power and the two main parties now only hold about 2/3rds of the primary vote - they used to more than 95% of the primary vote nationally just after the war.

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Reply #6 posted 08/29/18 5:41am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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EmmaMcG said:

Yeah we think it's crazy that a supposedly educated country like America voted in Trump. Then again, this is the same country that voted in Dubya. Twice. So maybe not a big surprise. Especially because he plays into the American stereotype of being a clueless, overweight gun nut.


What country are you from?
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #7 posted 08/29/18 5:42am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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Lianachan said:

Laughing stock is about right over here, aye.




What country are you from?
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #8 posted 08/29/18 5:44am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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...and it would be interesting to hear which countries think he is awesome. I doubt even Russians think highly of him.
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #9 posted 08/29/18 5:50am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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hausofmoi7 said:

I live in Australia
This is just a small sample to grasp the right wing nature of the country.

These are comments from Australias current federal government politicans and sitting senators.
Trump sounds like a typical Australian politican.

This is Australia.

Peter Dutton said that people in Melbourne are scared of going out because of "African gang violence"


In March 2018 Dutton made calls to treat white South African farmers, as refugees, stating that "they need help from a civilised country".
- the minister who made the above comment about granting special visas for white South Africans, is the same minister who is detaining black and brown refugees in concentration camps and refuses to allow them into Australia.
Both sides of politics support his decision to hold refugees in concentration camps.

In November 2016, Dutton said it was a mistake by the Malcolm Fraser administration to have admitted Lebanese Muslim immigrants.


"We're bringing in people from South Africa at the moment. There's a huge amount coming into Australia, who have diseases; they've got AIDS,
They are of no benefit to this country whatsoever; they'll never be able to work.
And what my main concern is, is the diseases that they're bringing in and yet no one is saying or doing anything about it." - Pauline Hanson told AAP.


Indigenous Australians are the most incarcerated by percentage of their population (2,346 per 100,000).
In addition to being the most incarcerated people on earth, black/indigenous Australians have a high rate of also dying in police custody.

I have a good older friend who is originally from Australia (Melbourne), and she supports Trump anf Fox “news”, but i always chalked it up as generational and possibly senility.

...she has told me a couple of times that Austrelia is kinda racist.




.
[Edited 8/29/18 5:24am]
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #10 posted 08/29/18 5:56am

hausofmoi7

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Australia is racist.
It has the same colonial foundation for its society as America, so perhaps not surprising.

By the way Australia gave you "Fox News" and Rupert Murdoch.

Fox News content is not that different to mainstream Australian media.
Firstly Rupert Murdoch owns a 45% stake in the Australian Associated Press outlet!
the biggest selling national newspaper.
Two of the other major newspapers in the country.
The entire cable tv network infrastructure and control of its distribution.
Also countless regional newspapers and news outlets.











.
[Edited 8/29/18 9:46am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #11 posted 08/29/18 6:03am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

Australia is racist. There is no way around it. It has the same colonial foundation for its society as America, so perhaps not surprising. By the way Australia gave you "Fox News" and Rupert Murdoch. In Australia Fox News would be considered mainstream journalism. . [Edited 8/29/18 5:58am]

.

All countries are racist, even those without that same colonial foundation.

.

As someone who actually lives in Australia and has seen Fox News, it is wrong that Fox News would be considered mainstream media. You are digressing - the topic is how is the Trump craziness playout in other countries.

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Reply #12 posted 08/29/18 6:12am

2elijah

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hausofmoi7 said:

I live in Australia
This is just a small sample to grasp the right wing nature of the country.

These are comments from Australias current federal government politicans and sitting senators.
Trump sounds like a typical Australian politican.

This is Australia.

Peter Dutton said that people in Melbourne are scared of going out because of "African gang violence"


In March 2018 Dutton made calls to treat white South African farmers, as refugees, stating that "they need help from a civilised country".
- the minister who made the above comment about granting special visas for white South Africans, is the same minister who is detaining black and brown refugees in concentration camps and refuses to allow them into Australia.
Both sides of politics support his decision to hold refugees in concentration camps.

In November 2016, Dutton said it was a mistake by the Malcolm Fraser administration to have admitted Lebanese Muslim immigrants.


"We're bringing in people from South Africa at the moment. There's a huge amount coming into Australia, who have diseases; they've got AIDS,
They are of no benefit to this country whatsoever; they'll never be able to work.
And what my main concern is, is the diseases that they're bringing in and yet no one is saying or doing anything about it." - Pauline Hanson told AAP.


Indigenous Australians are the most incarcerated by percentage of their population (2,346 per 100,000).
In addition to being the most incarcerated people on earth, black/indigenous Australians have a high rate of also dying in police custody.





.
[Edited 8/29/18 5:24am]

Interesting. Australia was one of the countries I wanted to visit. I’m not surprised about their history of colonization as it is very similar to America’s history. I always had an interest in learning the culture of the Aboriginal people there, if that is the correct term to identify them, if not then I apologize.

Two countries where both stole the land from its original inhabitants, and profited and forced them into slavery, and in present day, still treat them like they are the immigrants.even today, like they are the immigrants on their own homeland. On the other hand, if a large portion of the Australian population like trump, well then I guess that shouldn’t be a surprise. Trump is like a disease
FEARLESS
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Reply #13 posted 08/29/18 6:20am

IanRG

2elijah said:

hausofmoi7 said:
I live in Australia This is just a small sample to grasp the right wing nature of the country. These are comments from Australias current federal government politicans and sitting senators. Trump sounds like a typical Australian politican. This is Australia. Peter Dutton said that people in Melbourne are scared of going out because of "African gang violence" In March 2018 Dutton made calls to treat white South African farmers, as refugees, stating that "they need help from a civilised country". - the minister who made the above comment about granting special visas for white South Africans, is the same minister who is detaining black and brown refugees in concentration camps and refuses to allow them into Australia. Both sides of politics support his decision to hold refugees in concentration camps. In November 2016, Dutton said it was a mistake by the Malcolm Fraser administration to have admitted Lebanese Muslim immigrants. "We're bringing in people from South Africa at the moment. There's a huge amount coming into Australia, who have diseases; they've got AIDS, They are of no benefit to this country whatsoever; they'll never be able to work. And what my main concern is, is the diseases that they're bringing in and yet no one is saying or doing anything about it." - Pauline Hanson told AAP. Indigenous Australians are the most incarcerated by percentage of their population (2,346 per 100,000). In addition to being the most incarcerated people on earth, black/indigenous Australians have a high rate of also dying in police custody.
. [Edited 8/29/18 5:24am] Interesting. Australia was one of the countries I wanted to visit. I’m not surprised about their history of colonization as it is very similar to America’s history. I always had an interest in learning the culture of the Aboriginal people there, if that is the correct term to identify them, if not then I apologize. Two countries where both stole the land from its original inhabitants, and profited and forced them into slavery, and in present day, still treat them like they are the immigrants.even today, like they are the immigrants on their own homeland. On the other hand, if a large portion of the Australian population like trump, well then I guess that shouldn’t be a surprise. Trump is like a disease

.

Only a small portion of this country likes Trump

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Reply #14 posted 08/29/18 6:54am

TweetyV6

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

As an American, I think this is all bonkers, I can only imagine we are a laughing stock. What is the general consensus where you are from?


I live in Germany and in the Netherlands.
Since most media are oriented towards the left, there's little good that Trump can do.

I guess in the EU it's 'bon ton' to critisize every fart coming from Trump.


What I'm intererresed in is why it came as such surprise to some people that Trump was elected.
I visit the US frequently, coming to cities/places most foreign reproters never see.

4 weeks before the election, I was on a 2 week businesstrip through the US, starting visiting suppliers in/near LA, Phoenix, Detroit, Minneapolis, Chicago, Salt Lake City, Atlanta, New York and Boston.
Most of the people I talked to, mostly the business owners, were pro Trump.

Why is everyone so disconnected with the 'average American'?

___________________________________________________________________________________

All thinking men are Atheists - Hemingway

P.s. If you find spelling errors, you may keep them
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Reply #15 posted 08/29/18 6:54am

hausofmoi7

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2elijah said:

hausofmoi7 said:

I live in Australia
This is just a small sample to grasp the right wing nature of the country.

These are comments from Australias current federal government politicans and sitting senators.
Trump sounds like a typical Australian politican.

This is Australia.

Peter Dutton said that people in Melbourne are scared of going out because of "African gang violence"


In March 2018 Dutton made calls to treat white South African farmers, as refugees, stating that "they need help from a civilised country".
- the minister who made the above comment about granting special visas for white South Africans, is the same minister who is detaining black and brown refugees in concentration camps and refuses to allow them into Australia.
Both sides of politics support his decision to hold refugees in concentration camps.

In November 2016, Dutton said it was a mistake by the Malcolm Fraser administration to have admitted Lebanese Muslim immigrants.


"We're bringing in people from South Africa at the moment. There's a huge amount coming into Australia, who have diseases; they've got AIDS,
They are of no benefit to this country whatsoever; they'll never be able to work.
And what my main concern is, is the diseases that they're bringing in and yet no one is saying or doing anything about it." - Pauline Hanson told AAP.


Indigenous Australians are the most incarcerated by percentage of their population (2,346 per 100,000).
In addition to being the most incarcerated people on earth, black/indigenous Australians have a high rate of also dying in police custody.







.
[Edited 8/29/18 5:24am]

Interesting. Australia was one of the countries I wanted to visit. I’m not surprised about their history of colonization as it is very similar to America’s history. I always had an interest in learning the culture of the Aboriginal people there, if that is the correct term to identify them, if not then I apologize.

Two countries where both stole the land from its original inhabitants, and profited and forced them into slavery, and in present day, still treat them like they are the immigrants.even today, like they are the immigrants on their own homeland. On the other hand, if a large portion of the Australian population like trump, well then I guess that shouldn’t be a surprise. Trump is like a disease


As i pointed out above, the way Trump speaks is actually not that shocking within the context of Australia.

If you get to chance to visit Australia though, particularly parts of Australia where many indigenous Australians have large communities and maintain its culture, It's actually quite beautiful.

remembering still that these communities are also heavily oppressed and marginalised.
Life expectancy for indigenous Australians is 20 years less than the rest of the population.
Incarceration rates for indigenous Australians are the highest in the world.
Death in police custody is also an issue.
The racist attitudes towards indigenous Australians within the general population is also wide spread. Its actually kind of ridiculous how bad it is.





.
[Edited 8/29/18 8:25am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #16 posted 08/29/18 6:57am

Lianachan

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Lianachan said:

Laughing stock is about right over here, aye.

What country are you from?


Scotland.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge"" ~ Isaac Asimov
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Reply #17 posted 08/29/18 7:05am

DiminutiveRock
er

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TweetyV6 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

As an American, I think this is all bonkers, I can only imagine we are a laughing stock. What is the general consensus where you are from?


I live in Germany and in the Netherlands.
Since most media are oriented towards the left, there's little good that Trump can do.

I guess in the EU it's 'bon ton' to critisize every fart coming from Trump.


What I'm intererresed in is why it came as such surprise to some people that Trump was elected.
I visit the US frequently, coming to cities/places most foreign reproters never see.

4 weeks before the election, I was on a 2 week businesstrip through the US, starting visiting suppliers in/near LA, Phoenix, Detroit, Minneapolis, Chicago, Salt Lake City, Atlanta, New York and Boston.
Most of the people I talked to, mostly the business owners, were pro Trump.

Why is everyone so disconnected with the 'average American'?


I am not sure what kind of people you deal with, but as for LA NY Boston Chicago Minneapolis - Trump did not win in these cities or states where these cities are located. So you you've really proven nothing in your little "average American" travel poll.

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #18 posted 08/29/18 8:25am

TweetyV6

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DiminutiveRocker said:

TweetyV6 said:


I live in Germany and in the Netherlands.
Since most media are oriented towards the left, there's little good that Trump can do.

I guess in the EU it's 'bon ton' to critisize every fart coming from Trump.


What I'm intererresed in is why it came as such surprise to some people that Trump was elected.
I visit the US frequently, coming to cities/places most foreign reproters never see.

4 weeks before the election, I was on a 2 week businesstrip through the US, starting visiting suppliers in/near LA, Phoenix, Detroit, Minneapolis, Chicago, Salt Lake City, Atlanta, New York and Boston.
Most of the people I talked to, mostly the business owners, were pro Trump.

Why is everyone so disconnected with the 'average American'?


I am not sure what kind of people you deal with, but as for LA NY Boston Chicago Minneapolis - Trump did not win in these cities or states where these cities are located. So you you've really proven nothing in your little "average American" travel poll.

Company owners & part of their leadership team.
In those 2 weeks I spoke to approx. 50 people.

And yes, it's not a representative sample, but I was surprised Trump got so much support.

What I heard was: Hilary is yet another representative of the political establishment and they were pro-Trump because he is a succesfull businessman; he could give the economy a boost.

___________________________________________________________________________________

All thinking men are Atheists - Hemingway

P.s. If you find spelling errors, you may keep them
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Reply #19 posted 08/29/18 8:32am

deebee

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I think we live in a moment where there's a high degree of overlap between politics in our countries (mine being the UK). It seems to me that, in both countries, there is:

* a severely ruptured centre-ground consensus within the major parties;
* long-term effects of economic polarisation and insecurity, in the wake of the 2008 crisis and its social costs;
* a democratic event that reflects the crisis of the centre, which the liberal segments of the citizenry, media and political class are scandalised and baffled by (Trump's election in the US; the Brexit vote in the UK);
* a growing right-wing nationalist tendency, which the scandalous event seems to represent;
* a popular Left (social democratic) challenge that also breaks with the status quo, which posits itself (convincingly, in my opinion) as able to take on the right-wing surge, and the economic polarisation that has fueled its rise; and
* a 'tooth and nail' fight by liberal fractions of the political class and media to contain that Left challenge, even if this means unintentionally enabling the Right.


So, I think there's a more or less common set of views on Trump: most people think he's unbearable and sympathise with those he's governing; many of those want to return to 'politics as usual', à la Obama or Blair; some want their own Trump-like figure (opportunistic, crazy-haired Brexiteer Boris Johnson has been meeting with Steve Bannon and trialled a divisive anti-multiculturalist, Islamophobic strategy recently, backed by the right-wing press); and some see an opportunity for a more left-wing politics to emerge, and don't think a return to 'politics as usual' is an option.

We don't have the mass obsession about Russian collusion on the centre-left yet. But the Labour Deputy Leader (a centre-leftist who wants rid of the current leader) did hint at a probe into 'possible Russian interference' in the Brexit vote, the other day - so, give it time.

[Edited 8/29/18 8:33am]

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #20 posted 08/29/18 8:38am

EmmaMcG

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

EmmaMcG said:

Yeah we think it's crazy that a supposedly educated country like America voted in Trump. Then again, this is the same country that voted in Dubya. Twice. So maybe not a big surprise. Especially because he plays into the American stereotype of being a clueless, overweight gun nut.


What country are you from?


Ireland
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Reply #21 posted 08/29/18 8:43am

jjhunsecker

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TweetyV6 said:

DiminutiveRocker said:


I am not sure what kind of people you deal with, but as for LA NY Boston Chicago Minneapolis - Trump did not win in these cities or states where these cities are located. So you you've really proven nothing in your little "average American" travel poll.

Company owners & part of their leadership team.
In those 2 weeks I spoke to approx. 50 people.

And yes, it's not a representative sample, but I was surprised Trump got so much support.

What I heard was: Hilary is yet another representative of the political establishment and they were pro-Trump because he is a succesfull businessman; he could give the economy a boost.

Trump was actually a FAILURE as a businessman. He went bankrupt several times - running a casino ! He's been sued numerous times for stiffing workers . He's been sued for running a scam school, that essentially defrauded the students enrolled there. He was unable to get loans from legitimate American banks, and turned to Russia to finance his business ventures. So these people who though he was a "successful" businessman were taken in by the hype, especially from an idiotic "reality" TV show

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Reply #22 posted 08/29/18 8:49am

jjhunsecker

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DiminutiveRocker said:

TweetyV6 said:


I live in Germany and in the Netherlands.
Since most media are oriented towards the left, there's little good that Trump can do.

I guess in the EU it's 'bon ton' to critisize every fart coming from Trump.


What I'm intererresed in is why it came as such surprise to some people that Trump was elected.
I visit the US frequently, coming to cities/places most foreign reproters never see.

4 weeks before the election, I was on a 2 week businesstrip through the US, starting visiting suppliers in/near LA, Phoenix, Detroit, Minneapolis, Chicago, Salt Lake City, Atlanta, New York and Boston.
Most of the people I talked to, mostly the business owners, were pro Trump.

Why is everyone so disconnected with the 'average American'?


I am not sure what kind of people you deal with, but as for LA NY Boston Chicago Minneapolis - Trump did not win in these cities or states where these cities are located. So you you've really proven nothing in your little "average American" travel poll.

And let's not forget THREE MILLION more voters pulled the lever for Hillary Clinton. That's the will of most of the American electorate. Why aren't Clinton voters considered the "average American" ?

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Reply #23 posted 08/29/18 8:57am

peedub

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TweetyV6 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

As an American, I think this is all bonkers, I can only imagine we are a laughing stock. What is the general consensus where you are from?


I live in Germany and in the Netherlands.
Since most media are oriented towards the left, there's little good that Trump can do.

I guess in the EU it's 'bon ton' to critisize every fart coming from Trump.


What I'm intererresed in is why it came as such surprise to some people that Trump was elected.
I visit the US frequently, coming to cities/places most foreign reproters never see.

4 weeks before the election, I was on a 2 week businesstrip through the US, starting visiting suppliers in/near LA, Phoenix, Detroit, Minneapolis, Chicago, Salt Lake City, Atlanta, New York and Boston.
Most of the people I talked to, mostly the business owners, were pro Trump.

Why is everyone so disconnected with the 'average American'?


well...the 'average american' is not a business owner or a part of their 'leadership team'...believing that they are or can be or want to be suggests the disconnect.

the average american has a job and wants to be able to support their family and/or lifestyle; their ambition is not 'more, more, more...'

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Reply #24 posted 08/29/18 9:38am

jaawwnn

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America has a such vast influence on the rest of the world in so many ways that we have no choice but to watch with fear and fascination because we know he will likely directly affect our lives. (i'm Ireland also, a country that's basically economically pegged to the fortunes of Silicon Valley tech companies)

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Reply #25 posted 08/29/18 9:39am

NorthC

jjhunsecker said:



TweetyV6 said:




DiminutiveRocker said:




I am not sure what kind of people you deal with, but as for LA NY Boston Chicago Minneapolis - Trump did not win in these cities or states where these cities are located. So you you've really proven nothing in your little "average American" travel poll.



Company owners & part of their leadership team.
In those 2 weeks I spoke to approx. 50 people.

And yes, it's not a representative sample, but I was surprised Trump got so much support.

What I heard was: Hilary is yet another representative of the political establishment and they were pro-Trump because he is a succesfull businessman; he could give the economy a boost.



Trump was actually a FAILURE as a businessman. He went bankrupt several times - running a casino ! He's been sued numerous times for stiffing workers . He's been sued for running a scam school, that essentially defrauded the students enrolled there. He was unable to get loans from legitimate American banks, and turned to Russia to finance his business ventures. So these people who though he was a "successful" businessman were taken in by the hype, especially from an idiotic "reality" TV show


I guess that's the American dream: if you make lots of money then you must be succesful!
I do agree with Tweety's point about Hillary: yes, if anyone is part of the political establishment, it's she. She lost against Obama, made sure Bernie Sanders was out, just so that she could fulfill her own personal ambitions. People are fed up with that shit and they see through that. That's why people like Trump in America and Marine Le Pen in France and Geert Wilders in Holland get support.
I remember seeing a woman on Dutch tv talking about Trump. She said: "I think he's a horrible man, but at least he changes things." If you want to stop people like Trump winning, then at the very least you should take their voters seriously. And expect them to take others seriously also. That's not an easy job, but it's better than talking about "shit hole countries" or "deplorable". All this mud throwning needs to stop.
[Edited 8/29/18 9:51am]
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Reply #26 posted 08/29/18 9:39am

Empress

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

As an American, I think this is all bonkers, I can only imagine we are a laughing stock. What is the general consensus where you are from?

Most people I talk to here in Canada that are not far right leaning think Trump is a disgusting person and has made American look like true "American Idiots". Most people think of Trump as a celebrity and are baffled by how he was voted in. Although, having said that, it's pretty clear now that most that voted for him are racists and white. We have plenty of those types here in Canada too. My hope is that he does not get voted back in, so it seems to me that if you agree, you need to work on those that didn't vote or have trouble voting.

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Reply #27 posted 08/29/18 10:12am

NorthC

Empress said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


As an American, I think this is all bonkers, I can only imagine we are a laughing stock. What is the general consensus where you are from?

Most people I talk to here in Canada that are not far right leaning think Trump is a disgusting person and has made American look like true "American Idiots". Most people think of Trump as a celebrity and are baffled by how he was voted in. Although, having said that, it's pretty clear now that most that voted for him are racists and white. We have plenty of those types here in Canada too. My hope is that he does not get voted back in, so it seems to me that if you agree, you need to work on those that didn't vote or have trouble voting.


Really? "Racist and white". To me, that looks like putting people in boxes once again. Everybody has prejudices, including little old me, but we should really try to look beyond that. If you (not you personally) call Trump voters racists all of the time, how are you going to change their minds?
To us in Europe (and Canada too I think), Obama looked like the perfect president who brought the US back to its senses after that idiot war criminal Dubya. Finally, things would go back to normal, but what we didn't (want to) see was all this resentment against politics that was there all along... It's not about race, it's about class and education. The biggest problem today isn't the difference between black and white, it's the difference between the haves and the have nots, between the educated and the uneducated.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #28 posted 08/29/18 10:24am

jjhunsecker

avatar

NorthC said:

jjhunsecker said:

Trump was actually a FAILURE as a businessman. He went bankrupt several times - running a casino ! He's been sued numerous times for stiffing workers . He's been sued for running a scam school, that essentially defrauded the students enrolled there. He was unable to get loans from legitimate American banks, and turned to Russia to finance his business ventures. So these people who though he was a "successful" businessman were taken in by the hype, especially from an idiotic "reality" TV show

I guess that's the American dream: if you make lots of money then you must be succesful! I do agree with Tweety's point about Hillary: yes, if anyone is part of the political establishment, it's she. She lost against Obama, made sure Bernie Sanders was out, just so that she could fulfill her own personal ambitions. People are fed up with that shit and they see through that. That's why people like Trump in America and Marine Le Pen in France and Geert Wilders in Holland get support. I remember seeing a woman on Dutch tv talking about Trump. She said: "I think he's a horrible man, but at least he changes things." If you want to stop people like Trump winning, then at the very least you should take their voters seriously. And expect them to take others seriously also. That's not an easy job, but it's better than talking about "shit hole countries" or "deplorable". All this mud throwning needs to stop. [Edited 8/29/18 9:51am]

Many of us (most of us) don't want a "horrible" man as our leader, someone so petulent and thin skinned, someone who has displayed open racism and bigotry and misogyny througout his life history. If anyone has "slung mud", it's been Trump, who is truly a debased and degraded man, an terrible human being. And if I try to "understand" his voters, what efforts are they making to try to understand ME, and people who think like me ? It's not a one-way street.


And Trump had the same ambitions as Hillary Clinton- he just didn't put in the work like she did. She was qualified, and as he proves every day, he's not.

[Edited 8/29/18 10:26am]

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Reply #29 posted 08/29/18 10:28am

jjhunsecker

avatar

NorthC said:

Empress said:

Most people I talk to here in Canada that are not far right leaning think Trump is a disgusting person and has made American look like true "American Idiots". Most people think of Trump as a celebrity and are baffled by how he was voted in. Although, having said that, it's pretty clear now that most that voted for him are racists and white. We have plenty of those types here in Canada too. My hope is that he does not get voted back in, so it seems to me that if you agree, you need to work on those that didn't vote or have trouble voting.

Really? "Racist and white". To me, that looks like putting people in boxes once again. Everybody has prejudices, including little old me, but we should really try to look beyond that. If you (not you personally) call Trump voters racists all of the time, how are you going to change their minds? To us in Europe (and Canada too I think), Obama looked like the perfect president who brought the US back to its senses after that idiot war criminal Dubya. Finally, things would go back to normal, but what we didn't (want to) see was all this resentment against politics that was there all along... It's not about race, it's about class and education. The biggest problem today isn't the difference between black and white, it's the difference between the haves and the have nots, between the educated and the uneducated.

NEVER discount race as a factor. That's why Trump harps on Mexican "illegals" and Black "ungrateful" football players. He knows EXACTLY what buttons to push with his base.

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