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Thread started 08/10/18 9:20am

poppys

Trump Blasts NFL Players after National Anthem Protests Resume




https://www.msn.com/en-us...smsnnews11


BBLJ8s9.img?h=472&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=1460&y=883

© Wilfredo Lee/Associated Press Robert Quinn of the Miami Dolphins raised his fist during the playing of the national anthem on Thursday. Two of his teammates knelt.

The N.F.L.’s 2018 began in earnest on Thursday with the first full slate of preseason games, and the question that has dogged the league all summer — will players continue social justice protests during the playing of the national anthem — was answered loud and clear.

Malcolm Jenkins of the Philadelphia Eagles, one of the most outspoken players in recent years, was joined by his teammate De’Vante Bausby in raising a fist while the anthem was played. As had been customary in the past, Chris Long, a veteran defensive end, stood next to Jenkins with a hand on the defensive back’s shoulder.

In the only reported instance of players kneeling, Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson of the Miami Dolphins took a knee during the anthem before their team’s game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, while their teammate Robert Quinn raised his fist.


[Edited 8/10/18 9:22am]

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Reply #1 posted 08/10/18 9:28am

2elijah

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I’m enjoying trump’s insecurities and weakness. He’s such a bully. He apparently didn’t get enough hugs as a child. His dad was too busy burning up the same, hateful energy trump is projecting now.

CHEERS to the NFL players and their protesting. Keep it going. martini martini
[Edited 8/10/18 10:43am]
FEARLESS
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Reply #2 posted 08/10/18 9:29am

poppys

My brother @kstills continued his protest of systemic oppression tonight by taking a knee. Albert Wilson @iThinkIsee12 joined him in protest. Stay strong brothers!✊🏾
📸@footcandles#imwithkap #imwithereid #takeaknee

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Reply #3 posted 08/10/18 9:32am

poppys

The NFL players are at it again - taking a knee when they should be standing proudly for the National Anthem. Numerous players, from different teams, wanted to show their “outrage” at something that most of them are unable to define. They make a fortune doing what they love......

.....Be happy, be cool! A football game, that fans are paying soooo much money to watch and enjoy, is no place to protest. Most of that money goes to the players anyway. Find another way to protest. Stand proudly for your National Anthem or be Suspended Without Pay!

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Reply #4 posted 08/10/18 9:35am

2freaky4church
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Too many standing. Kneel now Goddammnit.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #5 posted 08/10/18 9:35am

2freaky4church
1

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I'd have my middle finger up.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #6 posted 08/10/18 9:37am

poppys

See the source image

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Reply #7 posted 08/10/18 10:37am

RodeoSchro

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I hope the NFL players understand they have all the leverage in this.

If hey kneel, people quit watching.

If people quit watching, revenues go down.

If revenues go down, the owners lose money.

If the owners want to make that money back, they have get those viewers back.

If the players quit protesting, the viewers will come back.

So - what do the players want in return for not protesting?

The players have all the leverage, although my guess is not all players see it that way.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #8 posted 08/10/18 10:42am

2elijah

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[Edited 8/10/18 10:43am]
FEARLESS
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Reply #9 posted 08/10/18 10:43am

benni

poppys said:

The NFL players are at it again - taking a knee when they should be standing proudly for the National Anthem. Numerous players, from different teams, wanted to show their “outrage” at something that most of them are unable to define. They make a fortune doing what they love......

.....Be happy, be cool! A football game, that fans are paying soooo much money to watch and enjoy, is no place to protest. Most of that money goes to the players anyway. Find another way to protest. Stand proudly for your National Anthem or be Suspended Without Pay!



Here is what I posted to his second tweet.


Replying to

If they protest in the streets, they are called "thugs" and "bad people". If they protest in the streets, riot police are called in with gas canisters and full body armor. If they protest in the streets, they are demeaned, mocked & put down. This is the best place to protest

Replying to

& the safest place to protest. This is the time to protest. Our country has no room for racists, police brutality, & injustices against POC. Now is the time to take a knee and support what this country is about, not what the racists want it to be about.

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Reply #10 posted 08/10/18 11:50am

poppys

RodeoSchro said:

I hope the NFL players understand they have all the leverage in this.

If hey kneel, people quit watching.

If people quit watching, revenues go down.

If revenues go down, the owners lose money.

If the owners want to make that money back, they have get those viewers back.

If the players quit protesting, the viewers will come back.

So - what do the players want in return for not protesting?

The players have all the leverage, although my guess is not all players see it that way.


I don't get #2 for starters - If they kneel, people quit watching. Maybe more people will watch if they kneel. Unless you mean Trumpers or Fox News viewers. Are you saying they are the ones keeping the NFL afloat? That's a lot of assumptions. Certainly no one here will stop watching the Saints.

What exactly do you mean by the players have all the leverage? As long as they don't rock the boat? And how would that help what they are protesting in the first place?

The NFL was having money problems before this. Sounds like you are blaming it on the protesters.


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Reply #11 posted 08/10/18 11:53am

poppys

benni said:

poppys said:



Here is what I posted to his second tweet.


Replying to

If they protest in the streets, they are called "thugs" and "bad people". If they protest in the streets, riot police are called in with gas canisters and full body armor. If they protest in the streets, they are demeaned, mocked & put down. This is the best place to protest

Replying to

& the safest place to protest. This is the time to protest. Our country has no room for racists, police brutality, & injustices against POC. Now is the time to take a knee and support what this country is about, not what the racists want it to be about.


woot!


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Reply #12 posted 08/10/18 12:07pm

RodeoSchro

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poppys said:

RodeoSchro said:

I hope the NFL players understand they have all the leverage in this.

If hey kneel, people quit watching.

If people quit watching, revenues go down.

If revenues go down, the owners lose money.

If the owners want to make that money back, they have get those viewers back.

If the players quit protesting, the viewers will come back.

So - what do the players want in return for not protesting?

The players have all the leverage, although my guess is not all players see it that way.


I don't get #2 for starters - If they kneel, people quit watching. Maybe more people will watch if they kneel. Unless you mean Trumpers or Fox News viewers. Are you saying they are the ones keeping the NFL afloat? That's a lot of assumptions. Certainly no one here will stop watching the Saints.

What exactly do you mean by the players have all the leverage? As long as they don't rock the boat? And how would that help what they are protesting in the first place?

The NFL was having money problems before this. Sounds like you are blaming it on the protesters.




Nope, crediting it on the protestors.

As much as our president bloviates, he is right when he says TV ratings have gone down since the protests started up. Lower ratings hurt the owners. As long as the protests continue, ratings could or should stay depressed.

If the owners want the ratings to go up, they have to stop the protests. Short of actually refusing to let any players on the sidelines for the anthem, there's no physical way they could do that.

Therefore, they'd have to give the players something in return for them discontinuing the protests. The questions would be:

1. Are there enough players that will protest in order to get enough Fox News viewers/Trumpers to ditch watching football; and

2. If so, what would those players want in order to stop protesting?

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #13 posted 08/10/18 12:09pm

RodeoSchro

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Put another way - the owners aren't putting policies in place to prevent anthem protests because they are "Great Americans"(TM).

They're doing that for the same reason they do everything - money.

Protests cost money.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #14 posted 08/10/18 12:23pm

poppys

RodeoSchro said:

Put another way - the owners aren't putting policies in place to prevent anthem protests because they are "Great Americans"(TM).

They're doing that for the same reason they do everything - money.

Protests cost money.


I don't give a rat's ass why NFL owners are doing anything, they're all rich white men anyway.

The bigger question is - Why do you want them to stop protesting? Do you have money in the NFL?

Let the players protest for as long as they want, I don't want them to stop. Why are you trying to control that by citing finances? Professional football is not going away because of protesting, maybe police violence will no longer be tolerated, that's the hope here.


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Reply #15 posted 08/10/18 12:33pm

RodeoSchro

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poppys said:

RodeoSchro said:

Put another way - the owners aren't putting policies in place to prevent anthem protests because they are "Great Americans"(TM).

They're doing that for the same reason they do everything - money.

Protests cost money.


I don't give a rat's ass why NFL owners are doing anything, they're all rich white men anyway.

The bigger question is - Why do you want them to stop protesting? Do you have money in the NFL?

Let the players protest for as long as they want, I don't want them to stop. Why are you trying to control that by citing finances? Professional football is not going away because of protesting, maybe police violence will no longer be tolerated, that's the hope here.




What makes you think I want them to stop protesting? What I am saying is that the players' protests give them leverage, and they should use that leverage to get what they want.

They want something. Isn't that why they are protesting?

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #16 posted 08/10/18 12:41pm

poppys

RodeoSchro said:

poppys said:


I don't give a rat's ass why NFL owners are doing anything, they're all rich white men anyway.

The bigger question is - Why do you want them to stop protesting? Do you have money in the NFL?

Let the players protest for as long as they want, I don't want them to stop. Why are you trying to control that by citing finances? Professional football is not going away because of protesting, maybe police violence will no longer be tolerated, that's the hope here.




What makes you think I want them to stop protesting? What I am saying is that the players' protests give them leverage, and they should use that leverage to get what they want.

They want something. Isn't that why they are protesting?


Giving the players what they want is not like a Christmas present, one and done.

This is a sustained struggle that may need to go on over many years and generations of players. Civil rights for all can't be bartered for money, as far as I know. What exactly do you suggest they be given to make them stop?



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Reply #17 posted 08/10/18 12:45pm

RodeoSchro

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poppys said:

RodeoSchro said:



What makes you think I want them to stop protesting? What I am saying is that the players' protests give them leverage, and they should use that leverage to get what they want.

They want something. Isn't that why they are protesting?


Giving the players what they want is not like a Christmas present, one and done.

This is a sustained struggle that may need to go on over many years and generations of players. Civil rights for all can't be bartered for money, as far as I know. What exactly do you suggest they be given to make them stop?





You'd have to ask the players what they want. I know what they're protesting and agree with it.

Let me ask you what you think. If you were a protesting NFL player, what could your owner/the NFL do to address your issue and end the protests?

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #18 posted 08/10/18 1:06pm

poppys

RodeoSchro said:

poppys said:


Giving the players what they want is not like a Christmas present, one and done.

This is a sustained struggle that may need to go on over many years and generations of players. Civil rights for all can't be bartered for money, as far as I know. What exactly do you suggest they be given to make them stop?





You'd have to ask the players what they want. I know what they're protesting and agree with it.

Let me ask you what you think. If you were a protesting NFL player, what could your owner/the NFL do to address your issue and end the protests?


I already said I don't think the protests should end until everyone has the same Civil Rights, especially regarding the murder of black males by police. I'm sure I'll be long dead if that ever happens. This kind of protest doesn't have an end. It's for children coming behind us. I am not in control of how NFL players want to protest, that's for them to decide and me to support them.


It's not like diner owners could give away free food to make people stop protesting why they were not allowed to sit at lunch counters.

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Reply #19 posted 08/10/18 1:10pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

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The government should stop funding the NFL more than enough money made privately. Trump should not have an opinion about NFL players kneeling, I believe in a conservative monetary opinion that we just should not be handing money to businesses like NFL, MLB. Trump should treat the topic like a businessman.

God has a plan. Trust the plan.
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Reply #20 posted 08/10/18 1:40pm

RodeoSchro

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SuperFurryAnimal said:

The government should stop funding the NFL more than enough money made privately. Trump should not have an opinion about NFL players kneeling, I believe in a conservative monetary opinion that we just should not be handing money to businesses like NFL, MLB. Trump should treat the topic like a businessman.




Trump tried to buy an NFL team once upon a time and former NFL commissioner Pete Rozelle told him not only no, but hell no.

Our wonder, mature, grown-up president would never hold a grudge - would he?

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #21 posted 08/10/18 1:42pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

RodeoSchro said:

I hope the NFL players understand they have all the leverage in this.

If hey kneel, people quit watching.

If people quit watching, revenues go down.

If revenues go down, the owners lose money.

If the owners want to make that money back, they have get those viewers back.

If the players quit protesting, the viewers will come back.

So - what do the players want in return for not protesting?

The players have all the leverage, although my guess is not all players see it that way.



Rodeo I think you don't understand. The people will never go back to watching football. Even if the protests end. The players already lost and football is on the decline. Part of it is the game is not as good as it once was. The other part is once people lost interest it's harder to draw them back in. The protest at this point to me is about Trump vs the players but also the game was already on the decline. Now I believe this was something Trump never should have commented on in the first place, I would like to see American sports thrive.
God has a plan. Trust the plan.
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Reply #22 posted 08/10/18 1:45pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

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RodeoSchro said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:


The government should stop funding the NFL more than enough money made privately. Trump should not have an opinion about NFL players kneeling, I believe in a conservative monetary opinion that we just should not be handing money to businesses like NFL, MLB. Trump should treat the topic like a businessman.






Trump tried to buy an NFL team once upon a time and former NFL commissioner Pete Rozelle told him not only no, but hell no.

Our wonder, mature, grown-up president would never hold a grudge - would he?



I know and that is part of Trump's beef with NFL and Jon Bon Jovi is connected somehow. He should have never commented.
God has a plan. Trust the plan.
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Reply #23 posted 08/10/18 3:17pm

djThunderfunk

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poppys said:


I already said I don't think the protests should end until everyone has the same Civil Rights, especially regarding the murder of black males by police. I'm sure I'll be long dead if that ever happens. This kind of protest doesn't have an end. It's for children coming behind us. I am not in control of how NFL players want to protest, that's for them to decide and me to support them.


It's not like diner owners could give away free food to make people stop protesting why they were not allowed to sit at lunch counters.


Everybody DOES have the same civil rights. The issue with black males that are killed by police is not due to black males not having rights, it is a problem with law enforcement and the legal system. Black males have the same "rights" as white males. If police are violating those rights, THAT is the issue.

EDIT: Ya know what, we're probably saying the same thing. You're saying they're protesting to HAVE the same civil rights, I'm saying they're protesting because civil rights they already have are being violated. It's just semantics I guess. peace





[Edited 8/10/18 16:10pm]

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #24 posted 08/10/18 3:18pm

djThunderfunk

avatar

SuperFurryAnimal said:

RodeoSchro said:




Trump tried to buy an NFL team once upon a time and former NFL commissioner Pete Rozelle told him not only no, but hell no.

Our wonder, mature, grown-up president would never hold a grudge - would he?

I know and that is part of Trump's beef with NFL and Jon Bon Jovi is connected somehow. He should have never commented.


Bon Joni?!?

Never mind, I don't want to know. lol

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #25 posted 08/10/18 3:43pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

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Bon Jovi and a couple other business men wanted to purchase a team and from what I remember he had a feud with Trump.
God has a plan. Trust the plan.
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Reply #26 posted 08/10/18 3:45pm

djThunderfunk

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SuperFurryAnimal said:

Bon Jovi and a couple other business men wanted to purchase a team and from what I remember he had a feud with Trump.


Oh, okay. My imagination got away from me. lol lol

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #27 posted 08/12/18 5:05pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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RodeoSchro said:

poppys said:


I don't give a rat's ass why NFL owners are doing anything, they're all rich white men anyway.

The bigger question is - Why do you want them to stop protesting? Do you have money in the NFL?

Let the players protest for as long as they want, I don't want them to stop. Why are you trying to control that by citing finances? Professional football is not going away because of protesting, maybe police violence will no longer be tolerated, that's the hope here.




What makes you think I want them to stop protesting? What I am saying is that the players' protests give them leverage, and they should use that leverage to get what they want.

They want something. Isn't that why they are protesting?


They want to see police brutality against black men stopped. The owners cannot give them that - that's a given - but they are protesting police brutality as is their right. They have a national TV stage - it's not unlike people wearing ribbons on their attire during the Oscars. Why is everyone so uptight about it? The game is still played - there is still a winner and people are still watching.

P.S. Why is the national anthem played before sports games - when did it start and why is that necessary?

[Edited 8/12/18 17:06pm]

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #28 posted 08/13/18 8:44am

RodeoSchro

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DiminutiveRocker said:

RodeoSchro said:



What makes you think I want them to stop protesting? What I am saying is that the players' protests give them leverage, and they should use that leverage to get what they want.

They want something. Isn't that why they are protesting?


They want to see police brutality against black men stopped. The owners cannot give them that - that's a given - but they are protesting police brutality as is their right. They have a national TV stage - it's not unlike people wearing ribbons on their attire during the Oscars. Why is everyone so uptight about it? The game is still played - there is still a winner and people are still watching.

P.S. Why is the national anthem played before sports games - when did it start and why is that necessary?

[Edited 8/12/18 17:06pm]



I'm not uptight about it. I support their protests. But they have some power now - their protesting is costing the owners money, and the owners don't like that. So, the players have a chance to tell the owners, "Do __________, ________, and ________ and we'll stop".

My thinking is that the players go to the owners and say something like, "You guys chip in $$$millions for the kinds of programs that can postively address the situation we are protesting, and we'll stop protesting. That way we get something done, and you get your viewers back - not to mention that Orange Foolius in Washington will quit tweeting about you".

The other option is to assume the owners can't do anything for the players. In that case, the players have to decide if the financial penalties are worth the exposure. But even if they are, then what?

Let's say the players protests this year and rack up $1,000,000 in fines. Will they get $1 mil worth of exposure? Or would they do better by taking that $1 mil and funding some efforts to directly address the police brutality situation?

Bottom line is there has to be an end game to the protests. What does Kap ultimately want?

As to how it started, here is a good explanation:


After America's entrance into World War I, Major League Baseball games often featured patriotic rituals, such as players marching in formation during pregame military drills and bands playing patriotic songs. During the seventh-inning stretch of Game One of the 1918 World Series, the band erupted into "The Star-Spangled Banner." The Cubs and Red Sox players faced the centerfield flag pole and stood at attention. The crowd, already on their feet, began to sing along and applauded at the end of the song.

http://mentalfloss.com/ar...ing-events

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #29 posted 08/13/18 8:57am

poppys

RodeoSchro said:

DiminutiveRocker said:


They want to see police brutality against black men stopped. The owners cannot give them that - that's a given - but they are protesting police brutality as is their right. They have a national TV stage - it's not unlike people wearing ribbons on their attire during the Oscars. Why is everyone so uptight about it? The game is still played - there is still a winner and people are still watching.

P.S. Why is the national anthem played before sports games - when did it start and why is that necessary?

[Edited 8/12/18 17:06pm]



I'm not uptight about it. I support their protests. But they have some power now - their protesting is costing the owners money, and the owners don't like that. So, the players have a chance to tell the owners, "Do __________, ________, and ________ and we'll stop".

My thinking is that the players go to the owners and say something like, "You guys chip in $$$millions for the kinds of programs that can postively address the situation we are protesting, and we'll stop protesting. That way we get something done, and you get your viewers back - not to mention that Orange Foolius in Washington will quit tweeting about you".

The other option is to assume the owners can't do anything for the players. In that case, the players have to decide if the financial penalties are worth the exposure. But even if they are, then what?

Let's say the players protests this year and rack up $1,000,000 in fines. Will they get $1 mil worth of exposure? Or would they do better by taking that $1 mil and funding some efforts to directly address the police brutality situation?

Bottom line is there has to be an end game to the protests. What does Kap ultimately want?

As to how it started, here is a good explanation:


After America's entrance into World War I, Major League Baseball games often featured patriotic rituals, such as players marching in formation during pregame military drills and bands playing patriotic songs. During the seventh-inning stretch of Game One of the 1918 World Series, the band erupted into "The Star-Spangled Banner." The Cubs and Red Sox players faced the centerfield flag pole and stood at attention. The crowd, already on their feet, began to sing along and applauded at the end of the song.

http://mentalfloss.com/ar...ing-events


I agree with Dimi. They can protest as long as they want and stop when they want. And do something else if they want. You are trying to force a monetary "solution" on a Human Rights problem. Whether you realize it or not, that is a typical patriarchal move to end things you are not comfortable with.

Bottom line is you are a white guy insisting that the protests stop for a lot of white guy reasons. People go to the bathroom and buy hot dogs during the anthem, players protest. So What? Why can't you leave it alone? It is not your fight to fix but you can't see that I guess.


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