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Reply #90 posted 08/10/18 9:50am

poppys

SuperFurryAnimal said:

jjhunsecker said:

WRONG


Yes it does. If you are found not guilty of a crime you are innocent in the eyes of the law.


WRONG. Now you're making stuff up.

Is not guilty the same as innocent?

Not to mention, understand, being found not guilty is not the same as being proven innocent. Not guilty means that the jury wasn't convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant was guilty.

www.quora.com


[Edited 8/10/18 9:52am]

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Reply #91 posted 08/10/18 9:51am

benni

SuperFurryAnimal said:

jjhunsecker said:

WRONG

Yes it does. If you are found not guilty of a crime you are innocent in the eyes of the law.


No, you are presumed innocent.


When you are going through a criminal case, you might be just as excited to think about a not guilty verdict as you are to think of proving your innocence. It is very important that you take a step back so you can take a look at the differences between innocent and not guilty.

WHAT IS INNOCENT?

Being deemed innocent means that you have been cleared of all speculation that you committed a crime. Innocence isn't really something that can be proven at a trial.

WHAT IS NOT GUILTY?

When it comes to a criminal case, the prosecution has to prove that a defendant committed a crime "beyond a reasonable doubt." That last clause "beyond a reasonable doubt" means that even if the jury largely thinks that a defendant committed a crime, they must not have any doubt about it. Doubt can be inserted into a case by the defense calling the prosecution's case into question. For example, this can be done by presenting witnesses who claim the defendant was with them at a different location when the crime occurred. Being found not guilty doesn't necessarily mean you are innocent. Instead, it means that the evidence wasn't strong enough for a guilty verdict.

WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL WITH INNOCENT VERSUS NOT GUILTY?

In order to be found not guilty, you have to go through the expense and stress of a trial. In some cases, even being found not guilty won't get your good name back. Being found innocent is something that can be done before trial in various ways. Asserting your innocence and then having charges dropped would be a way that you could truly note that you were innocent.

Source: FindLaw, "Actual Innocence and How ...ty Verdict," Ephrat Livni, Esq., accessed May 26, 2016

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Reply #92 posted 08/10/18 9:51am

jjhunsecker

avatar

SuperFurryAnimal said:

jjhunsecker said:

Zimmerman , a fat and out of shape slob, was losing a FIST FIGHT to an in-shape but UNARMED kid 20 years his junior. In the middle of this PHYSICAL ALTERCATION, with no weapons produced by Trayvon Martin, Fat Zimmy pulled out a gun and shot this teenager to death.


If I had shot an unarmed man during the course of a fist fight, I would be posting on here every other Tuesdau (or whatever day they allow the convicts to use the computers on Rikers Island)

I would not doubt that Trayvon was going to beat Zimmerman who is out of shape and as you say fat. So do people who are short, fat and out of shape have a right to self defense? I always believed the press got pictures of Trayvon as a young boy and portrayed him as small, weak little boy especially initially. When all evidence presented I figured Zimmerman was as you say. I agree too he should have just called cops and left the scene, etc. Truth is I guess I could walk streets and wait to get attacked and get away with murder from self defense. It's possible it was Zimmermans plan or intent but I think impossible to prove in relationship to murder. I think it was self defense. Though Zimmerman is reckless that doesn't even come into play.

So any shoving match or punch thrown, one should expect that a deadly weapon and lethal force should be used ??

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Reply #93 posted 08/10/18 9:54am

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

jjhunsecker said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:


jjhunsecker said:


WRONG



Yes it does. If you are found not guilty of a crime you are innocent in the eyes of the law.

Wrong. "Not Guilty" is what is proclaimed by the courts, which only means that there was not sufficient evidence for a jury to bring in a convinction. That "reasonable doubt" exists over the guilt of the defendent. The courts never say "Innocent". And even beyond that, people have a right to their opinion.



If they decide not guilty that is the same as innocent in the eyes of the law. Following the case closely I agreed with Only, someone who knows the law backwards and forwards that Zimmerman was guilty of something but not what they over charged him with. Still like OJ or Casey if they find not guilty have to be accepting and allow these people to have a life.
Trump turns from 'humbling' grief to midterm fire and furry
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Reply #94 posted 08/10/18 9:56am

2elijah

avatar

SuperFurryAnimal said:

jjhunsecker said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:


Being found not guilty in the eyes of the law is the same as innocent.

WRONG



Yes it does. If you are found not guilty of a crime you are innocent in the eyes of the law.

He got a pass. Truth is... the slimy pig is guilty. Had he not racially profiled and stalk Trayvon, the incident would not have happened. Rest assured though that Zimmerman’s conscience will never have the pleasure of peace, because he knows it was his actions that caused him to murder Trayvon.
FEARLESS
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Reply #95 posted 08/10/18 9:57am

PennyPurple

avatar

Zimmerman is guilty of shooting Martin dead. Just because he wasn't charged, doesn't mean he didn't do it.

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Reply #96 posted 08/10/18 9:59am

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

benni said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:


jjhunsecker said:


WRONG



Yes it does. If you are found not guilty of a crime you are innocent in the eyes of the law.


No, you are presumed innocent.



When you are going through a criminal case, you might be just as excited to think about a not guilty verdict as you are to think of proving your innocence. It is very important that you take a step back so you can take a look at the differences between innocent and not guilty.


WHAT IS INNOCENT?


Being deemed innocent means that you have been cleared of all speculation that you committed a crime. Innocence isn't really something that can be proven at a trial.


WHAT IS NOT GUILTY?


When it comes to a criminal case, the prosecution has to prove that a defendant committed a crime "beyond a reasonable doubt." That last clause "beyond a reasonable doubt" means that even if the jury largely thinks that a defendant committed a crime, they must not have any doubt about it. Doubt can be inserted into a case by the defense calling the prosecution's case into question. For example, this can be done by presenting witnesses who claim the defendant was with them at a different location when the crime occurred. Being found not guilty doesn't necessarily mean you are innocent. Instead, it means that the evidence wasn't strong enough for a guilty verdict.


WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL WITH INNOCENT VERSUS NOT GUILTY?


In order to be found not guilty, you have to go through the expense and stress of a trial. In some cases, even being found not guilty won't get your good name back. Being found innocent is something that can be done before trial in various ways. Asserting your innocence and then having charges dropped would be a way that you could truly note that you were innocent.


Source: FindLaw, "Actual Innocence and How ...ty Verdict," Ephrat Livni, Esq., accessed May 26, 2016



Lol before long you will be saying the courts found him guilty of murder with your logic.
Trump turns from 'humbling' grief to midterm fire and furry
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Reply #97 posted 08/10/18 10:00am

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

2elijah said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:



Yes it does. If you are found not guilty of a crime you are innocent in the eyes of the law.

He got a pass. Truth is... the slimy pig is guilty. Had he not racially profiled and stalk Trayvon, the incident would not have happened. Rest assured though that Zimmerman’s conscience will never have the pleasure of peace, because he knows it was his actions that caused him to murder Trayvon.


Guilty of self defense?
Trump turns from 'humbling' grief to midterm fire and furry
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Reply #98 posted 08/10/18 10:00am

benni

SuperFurryAnimal said:

jjhunsecker said:

Wrong. "Not Guilty" is what is proclaimed by the courts, which only means that there was not sufficient evidence for a jury to bring in a convinction. That "reasonable doubt" exists over the guilt of the defendent. The courts never say "Innocent". And even beyond that, people have a right to their opinion.

If they decide not guilty that is the same as innocent in the eyes of the law. Following the case closely I agreed with Only, someone who knows the law backwards and forwards that Zimmerman was guilty of something but not what they over charged him with. Still like OJ or Casey if they find not guilty have to be accepting and allow these people to have a life.


Again, they are "presumed" innocent.


You can draw two conclusions from a finding of not guilty:

  1. The accused person was innocent as a spring lamb, or
  2. The accused person “did the deed” but the prosecutor, for whatever reason, was unable to discharge the probative burden-to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Reply #99 posted 08/10/18 10:01am

benni

SuperFurryAnimal said:

benni said:


No, you are presumed innocent.


When you are going through a criminal case, you might be just as excited to think about a not guilty verdict as you are to think of proving your innocence. It is very important that you take a step back so you can take a look at the differences between innocent and not guilty.

WHAT IS INNOCENT?

Being deemed innocent means that you have been cleared of all speculation that you committed a crime. Innocence isn't really something that can be proven at a trial.

WHAT IS NOT GUILTY?

When it comes to a criminal case, the prosecution has to prove that a defendant committed a crime "beyond a reasonable doubt." That last clause "beyond a reasonable doubt" means that even if the jury largely thinks that a defendant committed a crime, they must not have any doubt about it. Doubt can be inserted into a case by the defense calling the prosecution's case into question. For example, this can be done by presenting witnesses who claim the defendant was with them at a different location when the crime occurred. Being found not guilty doesn't necessarily mean you are innocent. Instead, it means that the evidence wasn't strong enough for a guilty verdict.

WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL WITH INNOCENT VERSUS NOT GUILTY?

In order to be found not guilty, you have to go through the expense and stress of a trial. In some cases, even being found not guilty won't get your good name back. Being found innocent is something that can be done before trial in various ways. Asserting your innocence and then having charges dropped would be a way that you could truly note that you were innocent.

Source: FindLaw, "Actual Innocence and How ...ty Verdict," Ephrat Livni, Esq., accessed May 26, 2016

Lol before long you will be saying the courts found him guilty of murder with your logic.


That came from a legal website, so not my logic, but the legal systems.

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Reply #100 posted 08/10/18 10:08am

poppys

Lost cause, NEXT!

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Reply #101 posted 08/10/18 10:15am

2elijah

avatar

SuperFurryAnimal said:

2elijah said:


He got a pass. Truth is... the slimy pig is guilty. Had he not racially profiled and stalk Trayvon, the incident would not have happened. Rest assured though that Zimmerman’s conscience will never have the pleasure of peace, because he knows it was his actions that caused him to murder Trayvon.


Guilty of self defense?

No..MURDER.

Don’t you worry about your buddy Zimmerman and his freedom. He’s already getting his punishment, and that’s his guilty conscience that will ‘never’ give him peace over the murder he committed. His karma will see to it that his spirit will never have peace. popcorn Enjoy your day.
[Edited 8/10/18 10:16am]
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Reply #102 posted 08/10/18 12:10pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

SuperFurryAnimal said:

benni said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:


jjhunsecker said:


WRONG



Yes it does. If you are found not guilty of a crime you are innocent in the eyes of the law.


No, you are presumed innocent.



When you are going through a criminal case, you might be just as excited to think about a not guilty verdict as you are to think of proving your innocence. It is very important that you take a step back so you can take a look at the differences between innocent and not guilty.


WHAT IS INNOCENT?


Being deemed innocent means that you have been cleared of all speculation that you committed a crime. Innocence isn't really something that can be proven at a trial.


WHAT IS NOT GUILTY?


When it comes to a criminal case, the prosecution has to prove that a defendant committed a crime "beyond a reasonable doubt." That last clause "beyond a reasonable doubt" means that even if the jury largely thinks that a defendant committed a crime, they must not have any doubt about it. Doubt can be inserted into a case by the defense calling the prosecution's case into question. For example, this can be done by presenting witnesses who claim the defendant was with them at a different location when the crime occurred. Being found not guilty doesn't necessarily mean you are innocent. Instead, it means that the evidence wasn't strong enough for a guilty verdict.


WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL WITH INNOCENT VERSUS NOT GUILTY?


In order to be found not guilty, you have to go through the expense and stress of a trial. In some cases, even being found not guilty won't get your good name back. Being found innocent is something that can be done before trial in various ways. Asserting your innocence and then having charges dropped would be a way that you could truly note that you were innocent.


Source: FindLaw, "Actual Innocence and How ...ty Verdict," Ephrat Livni, Esq., accessed May 26, 2016



Lol before long you will be saying the courts found him guilty of murder with your logic.


You simply don't know what you're talking about
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Reply #103 posted 08/10/18 1:23pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

2elijah said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:
Guilty of self defense?
No..MURDER. Don’t you worry about your buddy Zimmerman and his freedom. He’s already getting his punishment, and that’s his guilty conscience that will ‘never’ give him peace over the murder he committed. His karma will see to it that his spirit will never have peace. popcorn Enjoy your day. [Edited 8/10/18 10:16am]

I respect the judgment made in these tough cases, Zimmerman, Casey, OJ. At the very least. I respect that if the courts decide they are not guilty they deserve freedom. Whatever they decide to do once free is up to them. I also have no connection to any of these people so hold no personal ill will towards them. They didn't cross me of my family.

Trump turns from 'humbling' grief to midterm fire and furry
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Reply #104 posted 08/10/18 1:35pm

uPtoWnNY

2elijah said:

Had he not racially profiled and stalk Trayvon, the incident would not have happened.

Exactly - he set everything in motion, which is why I hope that POS has a slow, horrible, painful death.

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Reply #105 posted 08/10/18 1:42pm

benni

SuperFurryAnimal said:

Being found not guilty in the eyes of the law is the same as innocent.


So if you believe the courts say the individual is not guilty, then they are innocent, does this mean you also believe that if the courts find someone guilty of a crime, then they must be guilty?


Because here are several cases where the courts made a mistake:


https://www.thisisinsider...hn-artis-2

And if the courts made a mistake and found an innocent person guilty, then it is safe to assume the courts have found a guilty person, not guilty.

[Edited 8/10/18 13:44pm]

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Reply #106 posted 08/10/18 1:48pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

benni said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:


Being found not guilty in the eyes of the law is the same as innocent.


So if you believe the courts say the individual is not guilty, then they are innocent, does this mean you also believe that if the courts find someone guilty of a crime, then they must be guilty?


Because here are several cases where the courts made a mistake:


https://www.thisisinsider...hn-artis-2

And if the courts made a mistake and found an innocent person guilty, then it is safe to assume the courts have found a guilty person, not guilty.

[Edited 8/10/18 13:44pm]



Yes until they are proven not guilty. Anyways this is a topic I will just have to agree to disagree. I have my standards and beliefs I live by and you have yours.
Trump turns from 'humbling' grief to midterm fire and furry
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Reply #107 posted 08/10/18 4:06pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

SuperFurryAnimal said:



2elijah said:


SuperFurryAnimal said:
Guilty of self defense?

No..MURDER. Don’t you worry about your buddy Zimmerman and his freedom. He’s already getting his punishment, and that’s his guilty conscience that will ‘never’ give him peace over the murder he committed. His karma will see to it that his spirit will never have peace. popcorn Enjoy your day. [Edited 8/10/18 10:16am]


I respect the judgment made in these tough cases, Zimmerman, Casey, OJ. At the very least. I respect that if the courts decide they are not guilty they deserve freedom. Whatever they decide to do once free is up to them. I also have no connection to any of these people so hold no personal ill will towards them. They didn't cross me of my family.



But they crossed someone's family..

For the record, I think all of the people you mentioned: Zimmerman (the actual subject of this thread) along with OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony (who you keep bringing up) committed the crimes they were charged with.
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Reply #108 posted 08/10/18 4:09pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

Casey is a mystery. I think something seriously weird happened that we can't even imagine. That family I believe has secrets and darkness. OJ gosh the DNA is damaging evidence but others are convinced he is innocent, I don't know. Zimmerman is guilty of something but premeditated murder I don't know.
Trump turns from 'humbling' grief to midterm fire and furry
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Reply #109 posted 08/12/18 4:48pm

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

I respect the judgment made in these tough cases, Zimmerman, Casey, OJ. At the very least. I respect that if the courts decide they are not guilty they deserve freedom. Whatever they decide to do once free is up to them. I also have no connection to any of these people so hold no personal ill will towards them. They didn't cross me of my family.

But they crossed someone's family.. For the record, I think all of the people you mentioned: Zimmerman (the actual subject of this thread) along with OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony (who you keep bringing up) committed the crimes they were charged with.


Lack of empathy ^

and I agree ^

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #110 posted 08/13/18 7:36am

2elijah

avatar

uPtoWnNY said:



2elijah said:


Had he not racially profiled and stalk Trayvon, the incident would not have happened.


Exactly - he set everything in motion, which is why I hope that POS has a slow, horrible, painful death.


I sure won’t cry any tears for him for racially profiling, stalking and then murdering Trayvon. I enjoy the fact that Zimmerman has no peace in his life.
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Reply #111 posted 08/13/18 8:40am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

He's a victim Elijah!

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #112 posted 08/13/18 1:52pm

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

2elijah said:

uPtoWnNY said:

Exactly - he set everything in motion, which is why I hope that POS has a slow, horrible, painful death.

I sure won’t cry any tears for him for racially profiling, stalking and then murdering Trayvon. I enjoy the fact that Zimmerman has no peace in his life.


Frankly, his cowardly ass is not even thread-worthy on this forum IMO, unless something significant happens to him that is newsworthy.

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #113 posted 08/13/18 9:11pm

13cjk13

DiminutiveRocker said:

2elijah said:

uPtoWnNY said: I sure won’t cry any tears for him for racially profiling, stalking and then murdering Trayvon. I enjoy the fact that Zimmerman has no peace in his life.


Frankly, his cowardly ass is not even thread-worthy on this forum IMO, unless something significant happens to him that is newsworthy.

Like his obituary? lol

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost".
-Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #114 posted 08/14/18 12:06am

maplenpg

avatar

SuperFurryAnimal said:

jjhunsecker said:

Wrong. "Not Guilty" is what is proclaimed by the courts, which only means that there was not sufficient evidence for a jury to bring in a convinction. That "reasonable doubt" exists over the guilt of the defendent. The courts never say "Innocent". And even beyond that, people have a right to their opinion.

If they decide not guilty that is the same as innocent in the eyes of the law. Following the case closely I agreed with Only, someone who knows the law backwards and forwards that Zimmerman was guilty of something but not what they over charged him with. Still like OJ or Casey if they find not guilty have to be accepting and allow these people to have a life.

fallofffallofffallofffallofffalloff Thanks Super, this made my day lol lol lol lol lol

If love is the answer, what was the question? - Carter USM.
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Reply #115 posted 08/14/18 6:08am

poppys

13cjk13 said:

DiminutiveRocker said:


Frankly, his cowardly ass is not even thread-worthy on this forum IMO, unless something significant happens to him that is newsworthy.


Like his obituary? lol

lol

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