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Reply #60 posted 08/02/18 1:16pm

EmancipationLo
ver

avatar

NorthC said:

Let's just say that the Elin Erssons of this world would do a lot of good if they learned to think before they act.

.

Bravo! That's it!

.

Compassion is good, but it's even better when it's combined with rational thought.

.

I still wonder what might have qualified this woman to make a more precise judgement in this case than Swedish courts? It shouldn't be her feelings, because feelings should not rule legal decisions.

prince
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Reply #61 posted 08/02/18 4:07pm

poppys

EmancipationLover said:

NorthC said:

Let's just say that the Elin Erssons of this world would do a lot of good if they learned to think before they act.

.

Bravo! That's it!

.

Compassion is good, but it's even better when it's combined with rational thought.

.

I still wonder what might have qualified this woman to make a more precise judgement in this case than Swedish courts? It shouldn't be her feelings, because feelings should not rule legal decisions.


Oh, I think they should. Maybe not Erssons feelings in this particular case, but feelings should not be divorced from anything in society. One of the reasons we're in such a mess in the first place. Slavery and Jim Crow were both perfectly legal and perfectly abhorrent. As I said before, it's revealing that some people on this thread are complaining about Prince.org P&R being too liberal, as if that were a bad thing. When I listen to the music of the person - the reason this site exists, the last thing I think about is that we need more rules, laws, and barriers.

Compassion is good, but...? No, it's everything. WhiteDude was practically crucified by some here for starting a thread about it.

[Edited 8/2/18 16:29pm]

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Reply #62 posted 08/02/18 7:36pm

ThatWhiteDude

poppys said:

EmancipationLover said:

.

Bravo! That's it!

.

Compassion is good, but it's even better when it's combined with rational thought.

.

I still wonder what might have qualified this woman to make a more precise judgement in this case than Swedish courts? It shouldn't be her feelings, because feelings should not rule legal decisions.


Oh, I think they should. Maybe not Erssons feelings in this particular case, but feelings should not be divorced from anything in society. One of the reasons we're in such a mess in the first place. Slavery and Jim Crow were both perfectly legal and perfectly abhorrent. As I said before, it's revealing that some people on this thread are complaining about Prince.org P&R being too liberal, as if that were a bad thing. When I listen to the music of the person - the reason this site exists, the last thing I think about is that we need more rules, laws, and barriers.

Compassion is good, but...? No, it's everything. WhiteDude was practically crucified by some here for starting a thread about it.

[Edited 8/2/18 16:29pm]

Yeah, wich is why I stayed off this thread for a while now. I didn't thought that it would cause such a discussion. I don't know, I still think that Elin did something good, or at least she showed people that you can stand up alone for a good cause. A single person can do good.

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
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Reply #63 posted 08/03/18 1:45am

TweetyV6

avatar

maplenpg said:

TweetyV6 said:


It's not that complicated. Sweden is, I think, Europe's most liberal country when it comes to taking care of immigrants/refugees/asylumseekers.

Like all other countries in the EU, there's one golden rule: if you apply for assylum but break the law in any way, your application will be voided. You'll be trialed, sentenced, locked up and expelled.
Which, IMHO, is far from unreasonable.

Other thing is that I think that 'we send people to their certain death' argument is popping up too quickly. It's the Godwin in such situation.

Again, knowing Sweden as a very open and liberal country, I cannot imagine that any magistrate would judge to deport someone who will be killed upon arrival in his/her home country.

Look, I'm not going to go round in circles. What I am afraid of is that someone who stood up for human rights is having her actions, which I have no doubt were done with good intention, trashed, whilst the nativist right-wing rhetoric that portrays migrants as criminals is further strengthened. We cannot demonise those fighting for human rights, even if their actions might seem a little skewed at times, and we cannot demonise migrants, even if a small percentage of them are criminals.

Did she stand up for human rights? Or did she just want to show the world how good of a person she is?

If she want's to do something for human rights, there are many organisations she can go work for, which probably is more effective then causing havoc on a flight.

She can be glad that I wasn't on that plane as I'd probably would have dragged her off myself.

___________________________________________________________________________________

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Reply #64 posted 08/03/18 1:49am

TweetyV6

avatar

ThatWhiteDude said:

poppys said:


Oh, I think they should. Maybe not Erssons feelings in this particular case, but feelings should not be divorced from anything in society. One of the reasons we're in such a mess in the first place. Slavery and Jim Crow were both perfectly legal and perfectly abhorrent. As I said before, it's revealing that some people on this thread are complaining about Prince.org P&R being too liberal, as if that were a bad thing. When I listen to the music of the person - the reason this site exists, the last thing I think about is that we need more rules, laws, and barriers.

Compassion is good, but...? No, it's everything. WhiteDude was practically crucified by some here for starting a thread about it.

[Edited 8/2/18 16:29pm]

Yeah, wich is why I stayed off this thread for a while now. I didn't thought that it would cause such a discussion. I don't know, I still think that Elin did something good, or at least she showed people that you can stand up alone for a good cause. A single person can do good.

And that's fine.

But not on a plane. How many other passengers missed their connecting flight or came too late to their destination.

If she *REALY* wants to help, there are many, many organisations she can join to *EFFECTIVELY* help people in need.

___________________________________________________________________________________

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P.s. If you find spelling errors, you may keep them
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Reply #65 posted 08/03/18 2:12am

EmancipationLo
ver

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poppys said:

Oh, I think they should. Maybe not Erssons feelings in this particular case, but feelings should not be divorced from anything in society. One of the reasons we're in such a mess in the first place.

.

Oh yes, they should be divorced from some things in society.

.

Example: when I go to a doctor, I want to receive medical treatment irrespective of the doctor's feelings - if he/she likes me or not should not influence the medical decisions.

.

The list goes on an on. When a judge has to rule in a case, then the ruling should be based on the law and the evidences presented in the trial, but surely not on the judge's subjective feelings.

.

The reason we are in such a mess is the political Left's newly found love for subjective feelings. The Left used to be about the analysis of society and the underlying mechanisms that require improvement and correction in order to enable people to have a better life. Nowadays it's all about individual feelings.

.

That does not mean that I advocate attempts to reduce us to non-emotional robots - I surely don't. People will have feelings anyway, but they should carefully check when these feelings should influence public actions and when they shouldn't.

.

In this particular case, I would still like to get an explanation what the competence of Ms. Ersson was based on that gave her the supposed right to overrule court rulings in one of the most socially just and advanced countries on the planet. It cannot be that hard to answer this question, can it?

.

poppys said:

Slavery and Jim Crow were both perfectly legal and perfectly abhorrent.

.

True, but both were also put in place when people had feelings, so obviously, that does not necessarily stop such crimes. The slave owners probably had the feeling that what they did was perfectly ok. However, if you analyse their actions based on moral principles, then you come to the undoubted conclusion that it was a terrible crime.

.

The number one monster in human history, Adolf Hitler, achieved his power by catering to human feelings, not to their intellect.

.

Donald Trump (not that I want to compare him to Hitler), who is an utter disgrace to the American political system, was elected because of people's subjective feelings, not because of their careful analysis that he proposed reasonable policies.

.

Brexit has come to be because of people's feelings, not because of their careful analysis of the pros and cons of 'remain' and 'leave'.

.

The last thing we need at this stage is even more feelings ruling public discourse - we need to switch our brains on again. I'm just afraid that the current political Left does not understand this issue as they are far too absorbed by their safe-spaces-trigger-warning ideology.

prince
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Reply #66 posted 08/03/18 4:55am

NorthC

I agree, Emancipation Lover, except for one: the political right isn't any better. "Close the bieders! Leave the EU!" are also based on feelings.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #67 posted 08/03/18 7:55am

poppys

It is a well known FACT that we can't divorce our feelings from the rest of our existence. People (mostly men) try to do that - it has never worked. Integraton is the key here. The doctor etc analogies are a tangent. No one is saying people should not act professionally.

As long as there has been slavery there have been abolitionists, people who KNEW it was wrong and fought to stop it. This idea that people thought their feelings about holding slaves were normal because of times blah blah blah - is crap. It was done for the sheer love of money. If you read accounts of actual people who lived through that - black, brown and white - you will see that there was so much ambivalance about the whole system that it destroyed many lives on the spot. There are copious records on that.

Anyone who finishes up with that SJW safe-space rhetoric is in denial, sorry. You are the ones afraid of losing your safe-space so you hurl these words at people and demand they comply with your discomfort.

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Reply #68 posted 08/03/18 8:04am

ThatWhiteDude

poppys said:

It is a well known FACT that we can't divorce our feelings from the rest of our existence. People (mostly men) try to do that - it has never worked. Integraton is the key here. The doctor etc analogies are a tangent. No one is saying people should not act professionally.

As long as there has been slavery there have been abolitionists, people who KNEW it was wrong and fought to stop it. This idea that people thought their feelings about holding slaves were normal because of times blah blah blah - is crap. It was done for the sheer love of money. If you read accounts of actual people who lived through that - black, brown and white - you will see that there was so much ambivalance about the whole system that it destroyed many lives on the spot. There are copious records on that.

Anyone who finishes up with that SJW safe-space rhetoric is in denial, sorry. You are the ones afraid of losing your safe-space so you hurl these words at people and demand they comply with your discomfort.

thumbs up! Well said poppys

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
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Reply #69 posted 08/03/18 8:42am

EmancipationLo
ver

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NorthC said:

I agree, Emancipation Lover, except for one: the political right isn't any better. "Close the bieders! Leave the EU!" are also based on feelings.

.

Of course, they are by no means better.

prince
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Reply #70 posted 08/03/18 8:53am

NorthC

Oops, I just realized I should have said "borders". That's what happens when the keyboard automatically types words and you write in a language that's not your own.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #71 posted 08/03/18 8:54am

EmancipationLo
ver

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poppys said:

Anyone who finishes up with that SJW safe-space rhetoric is in denial, sorry. You are the ones afraid of losing your safe-space so you hurl these words at people and demand they comply with your discomfort.

.

I'm not in denial at all.

.

And because I'm not in denial, I see that we have a right-wing party in the German parliament while the Left is unable to get a centrist-conservative chancellor out of office who has screwed up a lot.

.

I see that Britain has an incompetent conservative government in power, while the Left tries to regain some ground with a washed up anti-semite as their frontrunner.

.

I see that a joke of a candidate has won the presidential election in the US, because his centrist-left opponent screwed up her campaign, and that the centrist-left Deomcrats are totally unable to develop a political agenda that ensures that this disgrace of a president will not win a second term.

.

Now, what does the Left do while they are constantly losing? Are they renewing their policies and/or candidates? Do they develop a novel narrative that will convince the electorate?

.

No, they go on and on about ridiculous concepts like 'safe spaces' and protest irrelevant attention whores like Milo Yiannopoulos.

.

Btw, I don't want a safe space for me and don't have one. I'm quite happy to be an adult.

prince
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Reply #72 posted 08/03/18 9:05am

TweetyV6

avatar

ThatWhiteDude said:

poppys said:

It is a well known FACT that we can't divorce our feelings from the rest of our existence. People (mostly men) try to do that - it has never worked. Integraton is the key here. The doctor etc analogies are a tangent. No one is saying people should not act professionally.

As long as there has been slavery there have been abolitionists, people who KNEW it was wrong and fought to stop it. This idea that people thought their feelings about holding slaves were normal because of times blah blah blah - is crap. It was done for the sheer love of money. If you read accounts of actual people who lived through that - black, brown and white - you will see that there was so much ambivalance about the whole system that it destroyed many lives on the spot. There are copious records on that.

Anyone who finishes up with that SJW safe-space rhetoric is in denial, sorry. You are the ones afraid of losing your safe-space so you hurl these words at people and demand they comply with your discomfort.

thumbs up! Well said poppys


Wishfull thinking.

Science Says: NO
Nobel Prize winner Thomas Schelling described the 'Model of Segregation' where even when individuals (or "agents") didn't mind being surrounded or living by agents of a different race, they would still choose to segregate themselves from other agents over time!

Although the model is quite simple, it gives a fascinating look at how individuals might self-segregate, even when they have no explicit desire to do so.

More: here

___________________________________________________________________________________

All thinking men are Atheists - Hemingway

P.s. If you find spelling errors, you may keep them
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Reply #73 posted 08/03/18 9:11am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

One scientist? What a crock Tweety.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #74 posted 08/03/18 9:27am

poppys

TweetyV6 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

thumbs up! Well said poppys


Wishfull thinking.

Science Says: NO
Nobel Prize winner Thomas Schelling described the 'Model of Segregation' where even when individuals (or "agents") didn't mind being surrounded or living by agents of a different race, they would still choose to segregate themselves from other agents over time!

Although the model is quite simple, it gives a fascinating look at how individuals might self-segregate, even when they have no explicit desire to do so.

More: here

This is getting way off topic, a habit of yours. You love to prove segregation is innate because that's what YOU want. You do not see everyone as a potential equal. That's your problem.

Come to New Orleans. There are lots of us living, loving and thriving with the "enemy" - a population of over 60% African American. Or better yet, go to the Caribbean where it's 90% West Indian where I lived for a decade.

Then compare that to people screaming SJW all over the place because they can't even handle 10% of the population not being white people. It was really evident in the islands. White people who couldn't handle not being the dominant race (even with plenty of money) did not last long and had to leave. You would have been one of those is my guess. Science my ass, just more junk to try to prove YOUR problem that we all do not share.


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Reply #75 posted 08/03/18 9:59am

NorthC

poppys said:

It is a well known FACT that we can't divorce our feelings from the rest of our existence. People (mostly men) try to do that - it has never worked. Integraton is the key here. The doctor etc analogies are a tangent. No one is saying people should not act professionally.

As long as there has been slavery there have been abolitionists, people who KNEW it was wrong and fought to stop it. This idea that people thought their feelings about holding slaves were normal because of times blah blah blah - is crap. It was done for the sheer love of money. If you read accounts of actual people who lived through that - black, brown and white - you will see that there was so much ambivalance about the whole system that it destroyed many lives on the spot. There are copious records on that.

Anyone who finishes up with that SJW safe-space rhetoric is in denial, sorry. You are the ones afraid of losing your safe-space so you hurl these words at people and demand they comply with your discomfort.


The Nile is in Egypt, as everyone knows.
Okay, seriously. No one here has said that you should divorce feelings from the rest of our existence, with which I assume you mean
rational thinking. The two should go hand in hand, that's what makes us human.
"Mostly men"? Talk about prejudice!
As for the subject of slavery (which is totally off topic), you are right. Yes, it's about money and power.
[Edited 8/3/18 10:01am]
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #76 posted 08/03/18 1:45pm

FullLipsDotNos
e

avatar

I'm not sure how it works in other countries, but I was at a public lecture in Czechia by a lawyer who said that doctors have right to reject treating patients if they are disrespectful to them - and he cited a case where a person with a swastika tattoo went to see a doctor, but the doctor was Jewish. On one hand, doctors should treat everyone because everyone deserves health, but they are also human beings that too deserve respect and dignity.

-

And I think that what we are arguing about now is not a matter of rationality but of preferences. At the end of a day, both left and right will have well backed-up evience for their claims, but what will matter will be the preferences. What is more important for us? The fredom of people, or freeom of markets? Any rationally thinking left-wing or right-wing person will know their policies will have consequences, but some people value other people more than markets.

-

That being said, it's very simplistic; there are left-wingers that want to restrict both markets as well as people and there are right-wingers that want to free both markets as well as people.

full lips, freckles, and upturned nose
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Reply #77 posted 08/05/18 2:17am

TweetyV6

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

One scientist? What a crock Tweety.

Nobel Prize winning one, Freaky.
And science is not based on democracy. Or are you also questioning Einstein?

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Reply #78 posted 08/05/18 7:48am

poppys

TweetyV6 said:

2freaky4church1 said:

One scientist? What a crock Tweety.

Nobel Prize winning one, Freaky.
And science is not based on democracy. Or are you also questioning Einstein?


Yes. He had problems with being racist. Winning a prize changes that? How ridiculous.


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Reply #79 posted 08/05/18 8:37am

ThatWhiteDude

TweetyV6 said:

2freaky4church1 said:

One scientist? What a crock Tweety.

Nobel Prize winning one, Freaky.
And science is not based on democracy. Or are you also questioning Einstein?

Funny that you say that Tweety, because we europeans won a nobel prize 6 years ago for human rights and now it's illegal to save refugees if they're not from Syria. Would you say that Europe is still great just because we won that prize?

I know you can read that Tweety:

Lachkick wenn ich mich erinnere wie wir Europäer vor 6 Jahren einen Friedensnobelpreis für geile Menschenrechte bekommen haben und heute ist es illegal Leute vorm Ertrinken zu retten.

https://twitter.com/ShahakShapira/status/1018757328680751109

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
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Reply #80 posted 08/05/18 10:20am

13cjk13

poppys said:

TweetyV6 said:


Wishfull thinking.

Science Says: NO
Nobel Prize winner Thomas Schelling described the 'Model of Segregation' where even when individuals (or "agents") didn't mind being surrounded or living by agents of a different race, they would still choose to segregate themselves from other agents over time!

Although the model is quite simple, it gives a fascinating look at how individuals might self-segregate, even when they have no explicit desire to do so.

More: here

This is getting way off topic, a habit of yours. You love to prove segregation is innate because that's what YOU want. You do not see everyone as a potential equal. That's your problem.

Come to New Orleans. There are lots of us living, loving and thriving with the "enemy" - a population of over 60% African American. Or better yet, go to the Caribbean where it's 90% West Indian where I lived for a decade.

Then compare that to people screaming SJW all over the place because they can't even handle 10% of the population not being white people. It was really evident in the islands. White people who couldn't handle not being the dominant race (even with plenty of money) did not last long and had to leave. You would have been one of those is my guess. Science my ass, just more junk to try to prove YOUR problem that we all do not share.


yeahthat

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost".
-Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #81 posted 08/05/18 10:41pm

TweetyV6

avatar

poppys said:

TweetyV6 said:

Nobel Prize winning one, Freaky.
And science is not based on democracy. Or are you also questioning Einstein?


Yes. He had problems with being racist. Winning a prize changes that? How ridiculous.



The science behind it is sound and valid.
But all you can do is point at persons, not able discussing what is said but who said it.

A typical lefties reflex when they run out of arguements. Demonize the messenger

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P.s. If you find spelling errors, you may keep them
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Reply #82 posted 08/05/18 11:03pm

TweetyV6

avatar

ThatWhiteDude said:

TweetyV6 said:

Nobel Prize winning one, Freaky.
And science is not based on democracy. Or are you also questioning Einstein?

Funny that you say that Tweety, because we europeans won a nobel prize 6 years ago for human rights and now it's illegal to save refugees if they're not from Syria. Would you say that Europe is still great just because we won that prize?

I know you can read that Tweety:

Lachkick wenn ich mich erinnere wie wir Europäer vor 6 Jahren einen Friedensnobelpreis für geile Menschenrechte bekommen haben und heute ist es illegal Leute vorm Ertrinken zu retten.

https://twitter.com/ShahakShapira/status/1018757328680751109


a) the Nobel Peace Prize has nothing to do with science

b) In 2015 the prize was handed to the EU. Not the Europeans as people but the EU as an institute.

To me, the Nobel Peace Prize is of much lesser significance than the ones awarded for physics, chemistry or medicine.

As for saving 'refugees' not from Syria... It's not illegal to prevent people from drowning.
But, ACCORDING TO EU LAW, it's illegal to pick them up on a vessel flying Dutch colors and dropping them off in Italy or Spain and let them dissapear into illegality

Besides that, it's moralistically questionable to do so as it sustains the human trafficking in Africa.

Why not pick them up and return them to the shores of Lybia, Tunesia, Algeria or Marocco?

___________________________________________________________________________________

All thinking men are Atheists - Hemingway

P.s. If you find spelling errors, you may keep them
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Reply #83 posted 08/05/18 11:53pm

maplenpg

TweetyV6 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Funny that you say that Tweety, because we europeans won a nobel prize 6 years ago for human rights and now it's illegal to save refugees if they're not from Syria. Would you say that Europe is still great just because we won that prize?

I know you can read that Tweety:

Lachkick wenn ich mich erinnere wie wir Europäer vor 6 Jahren einen Friedensnobelpreis für geile Menschenrechte bekommen haben und heute ist es illegal Leute vorm Ertrinken zu retten.

https://twitter.com/ShahakShapira/status/1018757328680751109


a) the Nobel Peace Prize has nothing to do with science

b) In 2015 the prize was handed to the EU. Not the Europeans as people but the EU as an institute.

To me, the Nobel Peace Prize is of much lesser significance than the ones awarded for physics, chemistry or medicine.

As for saving 'refugees' not from Syria... It's not illegal to prevent people from drowning.
But, ACCORDING TO EU LAW, it's illegal to pick them up on a vessel flying Dutch colors and dropping them off in Italy or Spain and let them dissapear into illegality

Besides that, it's moralistically questionable to do so as it sustains the human trafficking in Africa.

Why not pick them up and return them to the shores of Lybia, Tunesia, Algeria or Marocco?

Is this true? I thought there was a duty to rescue? Yes, countries argue about whose duty it is and where they should go when they are rescued, but as far as I was aware you cannot just leave them to drown if you know they are there and have the capacity to help.

[Edited 8/5/18 23:54pm]

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #84 posted 08/06/18 12:48am

TweetyV6

avatar

maplenpg said:

TweetyV6 said:


a) the Nobel Peace Prize has nothing to do with science

b) In 2015 the prize was handed to the EU. Not the Europeans as people but the EU as an institute.

To me, the Nobel Peace Prize is of much lesser significance than the ones awarded for physics, chemistry or medicine.

As for saving 'refugees' not from Syria... It's not illegal to prevent people from drowning.
But, ACCORDING TO EU LAW, it's illegal to pick them up on a vessel flying Dutch colors and dropping them off in Italy or Spain and let them dissapear into illegality

Besides that, it's moralistically questionable to do so as it sustains the human trafficking in Africa.

Why not pick them up and return them to the shores of Lybia, Tunesia, Algeria or Marocco?

Is this true? I thought there was a duty to rescue? Yes, countries argue about whose duty it is and where they should go when they are rescued, but as far as I was aware you cannot just leave them to drown if you know they are there and have the capacity to help.

[Edited 8/5/18 23:54pm]

Read the sentence again...

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P.s. If you find spelling errors, you may keep them
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Reply #85 posted 08/06/18 5:35am

13cjk13

TweetyV6 said:

maplenpg said:

Is this true? I thought there was a duty to rescue? Yes, countries argue about whose duty it is and where they should go when they are rescued, but as far as I was aware you cannot just leave them to drown if you know they are there and have the capacity to help.

[Edited 8/5/18 23:54pm]

Read the sentence again...

Why, she got it right the firs time.

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost".
-Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #86 posted 08/06/18 7:24am

maplenpg

13cjk13 said:

TweetyV6 said:

Read the sentence again...

Why, she got it right the firs time.

To be fair I've just read it all again (including thatwhiteguys post) and I get what Tweety means now, it was very early am when I read it the first time (it could still be argued that it means what I first thought it meant in the first place, but in the interests of peace and happiness, I'll believe that Tweety didn't mean it in the way I first thought he did).

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #87 posted 08/06/18 2:42pm

poppys

TweetyV6 said:

poppys said:


Yes. He had problems with being racist. Winning a prize changes that? How ridiculous.



The science behind it is sound and valid.
But all you can do is point at persons, not able discussing what is said but who said it.

A typical lefties reflex when they run out of arguements. Demonize the messenger


You brought up Schelling, Einstein and prizes, I did not.

What I question is your heart. And your absolute need to prove segregation is natural because of your own bias. You have a very low threshold for the human condition. You thrive on compartmentalizing for order. Call me a lefty - I don't care, it's just a label, kind of like foreigner. I'm also left handed, we are still seen as evil in some places, LOL. Signed, sinister



[Edited 8/6/18 14:44pm]

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Reply #88 posted 08/07/18 1:06pm

NorthC

TweetyV6 said:



ThatWhiteDude said:




TweetyV6 said:



Nobel Prize winning one, Freaky.
And science is not based on democracy. Or are you also questioning Einstein?



Funny that you say that Tweety, because we europeans won a nobel prize 6 years ago for human rights and now it's illegal to save refugees if they're not from Syria. Would you say that Europe is still great just because we won that prize?



I know you can read that Tweety:



Lachkick wenn ich mich erinnere wie wir Europäer vor 6 Jahren einen Friedensnobelpreis für geile Menschenrechte bekommen haben und heute ist es illegal Leute vorm Ertrinken zu retten.



https://twitter.com/ShahakShapira/status/1018757328680751109




a) the Nobel Peace Prize has nothing to do with science


b) In 2015 the prize was handed to the EU. Not the Europeans as people but the EU as an institute.

To me, the Nobel Peace Prize is of much lesser significance than the ones awarded for physics, chemistry or medicine.

As for saving 'refugees' not from Syria... It's not illegal to prevent people from drowning.
But, ACCORDING TO EU LAW, it's illegal to pick them up on a vessel flying Dutch colors and dropping them off in Italy or Spain and let them dissapear into illegality

Besides that, it's moralistically questionable to do so as it sustains the human trafficking in Africa.

Why not pick them up and return them to the shores of Lybia, Tunesia, Algeria or Marocco?


That's what the Italian government is doing now. They've adopted a stricter immigration policy.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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