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Thread started 06/09/18 10:15am

midnightmover

Leftist debunks John Oliver's Venezuela propaganda

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #1 posted 06/09/18 12:41pm

2freaky4church
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I don't think it is correct to say Chavez diversified the economy. Mark Weisbrot, a Latin America expert, says that Maduro has to diversify more. He also has written that he has done illegal things like jail people.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #2 posted 06/09/18 11:36pm

midnightmover

2freaky4church1 said:

I don't think it is correct to say Chavez diversified the economy. Mark Weisbrot, a Latin America expert, says that Maduro has to diversify more. He also has written that he has done illegal things like jail people.

Jailing people is illegal? Wtf?

Did you watch the full video?

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #3 posted 06/10/18 10:18am

2freaky4church
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Yes, who is he?

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #4 posted 06/12/18 12:53am

hausofmoi7

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The proven oil reserves in Venezuela are recognized as the largest in the world, totaling 297 billion barrels (4.72×1010 m3) as of 1 January 2014.

It's odd to see liberals and people on the left in general help lay the groundwork to make sanctions against Venezuela acceptable and also a potential military intervention.






.
[Edited 6/12/18 4:36am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #5 posted 06/12/18 4:40am

hausofmoi7

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Not only should we oppose military intervention and sanctions against Venezuela but the bolivarian revolution should be upheld for what it has achieved and supported for what they intend to continue striving for.
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #6 posted 06/12/18 6:25am

2freaky4church
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I just don't buy that their economy is diversified. What other things do they sell?

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #7 posted 06/12/18 11:22am

NorthC

hausofmoi7 said:

Not only should we oppose military intervention and sanctions against Venezuela but the bolivarian revolution should be upheld for what it has achieved and supported for what they intend to continue striving for.

First of all: no one is plannng a military invention.
Second: I agree sanctions are a bad idea.
Third: this whole Bolivarian Revolution is a disaster. Bolivar himself said that making revolutions is like plowing at sea. I wish Nicolas Maduro remembered that quote from his country's national hero.
[Edited 6/12/18 11:23am]
[Edited 6/12/18 11:24am]
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #8 posted 06/16/18 12:15am

midnightmover

In spite of the economic warfare that is being waged on them, the average Venezuelan is far better off now than they were twenty years ago.

Poverty, illiteracy, infant mortality. They have all been drastically reduced.

That's why the revolutionaries keep winning at the ballot box.

Venezuelans should be allowed to chart their own course. Instead they are being viciously attacked simply because they want a fairer society.

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #9 posted 06/16/18 12:19am

midnightmover

2freaky4church1 said:

Yes, who is he?

He's a colleague of Abby Martin. I found the video since Abby recommended it in her interview with Jamarl Thomas.

I think it exposes Oliver's propaganda quite effectively.

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #10 posted 06/16/18 5:46am

NorthC

midnightmover said:

In spite of the economic warfare that is being waged on them, the average Venezuelan is far better off now than they were twenty years ago.

Poverty, illiteracy, infant mortality. They have all been drastically reduced.

That's why the revolutionaries keep winning at the ballot box.

Venezuelans should be allowed to chart their own course. Instead they are being viciously attacked simply because they want a fairer society.


There's hunger, inflation, riots, neighbouring countries are overflowing with refugees... But none of that is Maduro's fault of course... bored2
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Reply #11 posted 06/16/18 6:43am

midnightmover

NorthC said:

midnightmover said:

In spite of the economic warfare that is being waged on them, the average Venezuelan is far better off now than they were twenty years ago.

Poverty, illiteracy, infant mortality. They have all been drastically reduced.

That's why the revolutionaries keep winning at the ballot box.

Venezuelans should be allowed to chart their own course. Instead they are being viciously attacked simply because they want a fairer society.

There's hunger, inflation, riots, neighbouring countries are overflowing with refugees... But none of that is Maduro's fault of course... bored2

All of that was going on in the 80s and 90s before Hugo Chavez took over too.

Yet there was no economic blockade placed on the country then.

Venezuela is under attack. Plain and simple. Not just from abroad but from big business in the country too (people forget that the Venezuelan economy is still largely in the hands of private corporations).

What right does the West have to demand that a democratically elected leader be removed? Colonial days are over.

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #12 posted 06/16/18 9:55am

2freaky4church
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I'm still with Mark Weisbrot.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #13 posted 06/16/18 11:06am

NorthC

midnightmover said:



NorthC said:


midnightmover said:

In spite of the economic warfare that is being waged on them, the average Venezuelan is far better off now than they were twenty years ago.

Poverty, illiteracy, infant mortality. They have all been drastically reduced.

That's why the revolutionaries keep winning at the ballot box.

Venezuelans should be allowed to chart their own course. Instead they are being viciously attacked simply because they want a fairer society.



There's hunger, inflation, riots, neighbouring countries are overflowing with refugees... But none of that is Maduro's fault of course... bored2

All of that was going on in the 80s and 90s before Hugo Chavez took over too.

Yet there was no economic blockade placed on the country then.

Venezuela is under attack. Plain and simple. Not just from abroad but from big business in the country too (people forget that the Venezuelan economy is still largely in the hands of private corporations).

What right does the West have to demand that a democratically elected leader be removed? Colonial days are over.


Sorry, amigo, but you can't have it both ways. First you say Venezuelans are better off than before and then when I point out the problems, you say, oh those problems already existed! No, they didn't. People weren't starving and fleeing the country twenty years ago. The Chavez-Maduro regime ruined the country. And that's very sad.
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Reply #14 posted 06/16/18 12:15pm

midnightmover

NorthC said:

midnightmover said:

All of that was going on in the 80s and 90s before Hugo Chavez took over too.

Yet there was no economic blockade placed on the country then.

Venezuela is under attack. Plain and simple. Not just from abroad but from big business in the country too (people forget that the Venezuelan economy is still largely in the hands of private corporations).

What right does the West have to demand that a democratically elected leader be removed? Colonial days are over.

Sorry, amigo, but you can't have it both ways. First you say Venezuelans are better off than before and then when I point out the problems, you say, oh those problems already existed! No, they didn't. People weren't starving and fleeing the country twenty years ago. The Chavez-Maduro regime ruined the country. And that's very sad.

No-one denies that Venezuela is going through hard times. They have been overly reliant on oil for decades and it seems like they are returning to the high levels of inflation they suffered with before Hugo Chavez came to power. For context inflation in Venezuela was around 99% before Chavez came to power in the late 90s and the police were shooting THOUSANDS of protesters. That all ended after Chavez was elected and living standards massively improved.

Now they are backsliding, but the people are sticking with the more inclusive policies of Maduro. They are doing this even though they know that America has its foot on their neck and will punish them for not surrendering. Why should they be dictated to? It is THEIR choice, not yours.

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #15 posted 06/16/18 12:36pm

NorthC

I wish it was their choice. But a man who oppressed opposition and puts their leaders in jail, doesn't give his people much of a choice. You really don't believe Venezuela has free and fair elections now, do you?
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Reply #16 posted 06/17/18 12:38am

midnightmover

NorthC said:

I wish it was their choice. But a man who oppressed opposition and puts their leaders in jail, doesn't give his people much of a choice. You really don't believe Venezuela has free and fair elections now, do you?

Yes I do, because their elections have been monitored and found to be completely transparent and fair by international observers.

This last election America discouraged opposition leaders from running because they want to make Venezuela look undemocratic when in fact it is far more democratic than the United States.

What is most disturbing is that the UN and the Jimmy Carter foundation were invited by Maduro to come and monitor these most recent elections to confirm that everything was above board and they chose not to come.

The regime change seekers can't win at the ballot box so they're trying to smear Venezuela's democratic integrity instead. And those opposition figures who were arrested are known criminals. Criminals are supposed to be arrested.

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #17 posted 06/17/18 1:59am

hausofmoi7

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NorthC said:

I wish it was their choice. But a man who oppressed opposition and puts their leaders in jail, doesn't give his people much of a choice. You really don't believe Venezuela has free and fair elections now, do you?

Yes.
They are actually known for having the most monitored and scrutinized elections in the world.

Did you watch the video above?
It provides context and background behind the situation in Venezuela and how the U.S/C.I.A are manufacturing the economic issues happening in Venezuela.

Also there are people in Venezuela who may not fully agree with the government but still voted and support the bolivarian revolution.
The alternative is not an option for them.


I think it's amazing that the race and class nature of the protests and of the situation in Venezuela is being overlooked by people in the west.
Basically Venezuela's ALT -RIGHT is rising up against the government.
This reality is something that is heavily played down or just not mentioned at all in the west, particularly by people on the left.


Venezuelan activist Maria Emilia Duran describes what these protests represent politically and socially.

“It’s a white, bourgeois, classist, racist and sexist elite that has no patriotism,” Duran told teleSUR during an interview. “They want a Venezuela where only they exist, not Black, Indigenous and poor people."





.
[Edited 6/17/18 6:55am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #18 posted 06/17/18 2:06am

hausofmoi7

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US Sanctions Against Venezuela Blocked 18 Million Boxes of Food
https://www.telesurtv.net...-0023.html
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #19 posted 06/17/18 2:26am

hausofmoi7

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Tell the truth about these protests.


The man set on fire in Caracas might be the perfect symbol of the country’s runaway opposition.

The man had brown skin, and government supporters say he was a Chavista, to highlight the racist savagery of their adversaries. The opposition says he was a thief.


https://www.thenation.com...venezuela/
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #20 posted 06/17/18 3:20am

hausofmoi7

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Venezuela's long history of racism is coming back to haunt it
https://www.google.com.au...t-it-82199


Over the last four months, hardly a day has gone by without news coverage of the political and economic crisis in Venezuela. At least 124 people have been killed, some by security forces, while participating in or accidentally encountering opposition-led street demonstrations.

The mainstream media narrative is of an increasingly authoritarian government repressing a series of popular uprisings in a desperate bid to hold onto power. Political leaders in the UK, the US and other countries warn that President Nicolás Maduro is turning into a dictator.

But little has been said about the reported 49% to 80% of Venezuelans, both pro- and anti-Maduro, who are “in disagreement” with the radical opposition’s use of violence as a political tool. Not all who oppose Maduro support the radical opposition or want them in power.

While acknowledging that Venezuela’s political unrest “remains mostly confined to middle-class enclaves”, the authors of an article published in the Wall Street Journal suggested that many “poor Venezuelans” are just “too hungry” to march. But rejection of the radical opposition goes far deeper than this. It is rooted in profound historical concerns, not just political and economic, but also racial and cultural.

The ugly truth

Before Hugo Chávez was elected in 1998, Venezuela attracted little international attention. It was seen as exceptionally stable by Latin American standards, and was best known for its beauty queens and its oil. Those national icons represent the racial and cultural politics that are driving today’s unrest.

Let’s start with the beauty queens. While a majority of Venezuelans identify as black, indigenous or mestizo (mixed-race), the country’s beauty queens invariably conform to white beauty ideals. The organiser of the country’s most important beauty pageant has stated that black women are not pretty because their noses are “too wide” and their lips “too thick”. Afro hair is commonly referred to as pelo malo – “bad hair”.


These aesthetic values have political, cultural and economic counterparts. In the mid-19th century, several Latin American governments implemented “whitening” policies along the ideological lines laid out in books such as Facundo: Civilisation and Barbarism. Large scale European migration was promoted for the “improvement” of “the race”. In Venezuela, these policies continued until the 1940s.

This belief in the natural superiority of Europeans was also evident in the economically crucial, foreign-owned oil sector. Professionals and middle managers were white Venezuelans, but labourers were recruited from black and mixed-race sectors. By the time oil was nationalised in 1976, the Venezuelan middle class it helped to create had come to identify with US-style political, cultural and consumer patterns. For these Venezuelans, dubbed “miameros” because of their frequent shopping trips to Miami, oil symbolised civilisation, while the black and mixed-race masses represented the perceived barbarism of the past.

But Venezuela’s apparent “exceptionalism” was an illusion. In the 1960s and 1970s, the “common sense” ideas of progress and modernity promulgated by the oil industry and backed by the government ran into trouble. Social tensions developed around the unequal access to oil profits, and strong currents of barrio and grassroots activism began to surge. The situation worsened in the 1980s as oil prices dropped and the bolívar currency was devalued.

In February 1989, the Caracazo uprisings broke out in anger at newly-imposed, right wing economic reforms. An ensuing military crackdown claimed the lives of more than 400 people, mainly from the barrios. To this day, poorer Venezuelans remember this state violence as an act carried out to protect the interests of the wealthy middle classes and their foreign allies. As a woman from the 22 de Enero barrio told me in 2008: “You never saw anybody on the right protesting against the shooting of us; [they] … never cried when we were shot.”

Barrio politics

In the early years of Hugo Chávez’s rise to power, right wing criticism of the government was frequently couched in racial and cultural terms. The private media portrayed government supporters as hordes of “monkeys” moved by base emotions and swayed by an authoritarian leader.

One anti-Chavista told me in 2005 that a president should be a “señor” who speaks English, and not someone from such a humble background that he only started wearing shoes at the age of eight. Chávez was not fit to be president, she elaborated, “because of his culture, the tiny bit he has … He wants us all to live like he used to live”. For anti-Chavistas, Chávez and his supporters in the barrios represented the perceived barbarism of the past, and this instilled fear in them.

While the Chávez government attracted international attention for its economic and political programmes, it also addressed cultural injustices. Through new cultural policies and social programmes, such as Misión Cultura, Chavismo raised the symbolic status of the historically excluded poor and mixed-race masses. For the first time, previously marginalised people saw their history and cultural values, as they defined them, promoted by the government and included in official representations of the national cultural heritage.

These efforts were extremely powerful, and won the government deep support. As a barrio resident put it to me in 2008:

We have a sense of belonging now … This is the responsibility of all of us, not Chávez alone … he can’t do it without us.
The opposition protests that have flared up since Chávez first came to power need to be understood within this cultural and racial context. Radical sectors of the right wing opposition have repeatedly refused to accept the legitimacy of Chavismo and what it represents. In 2002, they helped organise both a short-lived US-backed coup and oil strikes meant to create chaos and bring the government down. The street demonstrations raging today are aimed at achieving regime change, but the opposition has not indicated what policies they would introduce and how they would deal with the country’s problems if they were in power.

Maduro’s popularity has fallen significantly this year, but many who have withdrawn their support for him feel alienated by the opposition’s anti-poor discourse. They fear that a return to the political right would reverse the gains made under Chavismo, and worse. Their fears are not theoretical; as observed by Gabriel Hetland of the State University of New York at Albany, the opposition has carried out “brutal attacks” directed at “black and brown men … and other people who look Chavista”.

The crisis in Venezuela is not simply a matter of left wing versus right wing political and economic systems. It is also rooted in competing ideas about racial and cultural worth. The ugly truth is that for some, it is still a matter of civilisation versus barbarism.



.
[Edited 6/17/18 4:13am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #21 posted 06/17/18 8:50am

NorthC

midnightmover said:



NorthC said:


I wish it was their choice. But a man who oppressed opposition and puts their leaders in jail, doesn't give his people much of a choice. You really don't believe Venezuela has free and fair elections now, do you?

Yes I do, because their elections have been monitored and found to be completely transparent and fair by international observers.

This last election America discouraged opposition leaders from running because they want to make Venezuela look undemocratic when in fact it is far more democratic than the United States.

What is most disturbing is that the UN and the Jimmy Carter foundation were invited by Maduro to come and monitor these most recent elections to confirm that everything was above board and they chose not to come.

The regime change seekers can't win at the ballot box so they're trying to smear Venezuela's democratic integrity instead. And those opposition figures who were arrested are known criminals. Criminals are supposed to be arrested.


All the opposition leaders that were arrested are known criminals? Who's spreading propaganda now? Next thing hou know, you'll be saying that Robert Mugabe was always elected because Zimbabweans loved him so much. As you said before, colonial times are over, which means that the leader of a country has to take responsability for his actions. You can't blame everything on foreign powers. Chavez may have meant well in helping the poor, but he basically used oil money to give presents to his supporters and now Nicolas Maduro, who lacks Chavez' vision and charisma, is doing all he can to stay in power. If the army gives up on him, he's done.
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Reply #22 posted 06/17/18 9:17am

hausofmoi7

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CIA chief hints agency is working to change Venezuelan government
https://www.independent.c...59771.html


The head of the CIA has suggested the agency is working to change the elected government of Venezuela and is collaborating with two countries in the region to do so.

In one of the clearest clues yet about Washington’s latest meddling in the politics of Latin America, CIA director Mike Pompeo said he was “hopeful that there can be a transition in Venezuela and we the CIA is doing its best to understand the dynamic there”.

He added: “I was just down in Mexico City and in Bogota a week before last talking about this very issue, trying to help them understand the things they might do so that they can get a better outcome for their part of the world and our part of the world.”


.
[Edited 6/17/18 9:24am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #23 posted 06/17/18 9:23am

midnightmover

NorthC said:

midnightmover said:

Yes I do, because their elections have been monitored and found to be completely transparent and fair by international observers.

This last election America discouraged opposition leaders from running because they want to make Venezuela look undemocratic when in fact it is far more democratic than the United States.

What is most disturbing is that the UN and the Jimmy Carter foundation were invited by Maduro to come and monitor these most recent elections to confirm that everything was above board and they chose not to come.

The regime change seekers can't win at the ballot box so they're trying to smear Venezuela's democratic integrity instead. And those opposition figures who were arrested are known criminals. Criminals are supposed to be arrested.

All the opposition leaders that were arrested are known criminals? Who's spreading propaganda now? Next thing hou know, you'll be saying that Robert Mugabe was always elected because Zimbabweans loved him so much. As you said before, colonial times are over, which means that the leader of a country has to take responsability for his actions. You can't blame everything on foreign powers. Chavez may have meant well in helping the poor, but he basically used oil money to give presents to his supporters and now Nicolas Maduro, who lacks Chavez' vision and charisma, is doing all he can to stay in power. If the army gives up on him, he's done.

The opposition figures highlighted by Oliver in his comedy-propaganda skit are all criminals. You'd have to be blind not to notice the sinister and murderous nature of so much of these opposition figures. The masked protesters have committed acts of murder in broad daylight. Did you watch the video at the start of this thread? It doesn't sound like you did.

Maduro's changes have all been about democratizing and involving more ordinary people in the political process. The exact opposite of what you regime change seekers are asserting. But you believe it's your divine right to dictate other peoples' governments. Who could blame you? The entire Western media has that attitude too.

It never stops. Ukraine, Syria, Venezuela, Libya. You've always got an excuse to indulge your fetish of overthrowing other peoples' governments. And if you can't succeed in changing the government then you just make the people suffer (which is what economic blockades do).

You do this while telling yourselves that you are altruistic, decent and noble people of course. When the truth is you are something far more primitive.

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #24 posted 06/17/18 9:42am

NorthC

Yeah, right. Assad, Maduro, the late Gadhaffi... All great guys, right? Here's the problem I have with the two of you, midnightmover & hausofmoi: you're absolutely correct in pointing out the wrongdoings of the USA and Europe, but it makes you blind for the wrongdoings of the other side.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #25 posted 06/17/18 10:14am

midnightmover

NorthC said:

Yeah, right. Assad, Maduro, the late Gadhaffi... All great guys, right? Here's the problem I have with the two of you, midnightmover & hausofmoi: you're absolutely correct in pointing out the wrongdoings of the USA and Europe, but it makes you blind for the wrongdoings of the other side.

No, you are morally irresponsible. Gadaffi was not a great guy, but it's a FACT that Libya was a far better place to live in when he was ruler than it was afterwards. Removing him was a wicked and immoral act since it was OBVIOUS that it would be a disaster. But your leaders play dumb and pretend that it's a surprise when it happens.

In Syria Assad lost control of most of the country at one point and who took over? Head chopping, throat slitting jihadi terrorists. But people like you just mindlessly chant mantras about Assad being a dictator as if it justifies your destruction of the country and your promotion of terrorism (that's what you're doing when you train and equip so-called "rebels" in these countries).

In the case of Ukraine and Venezuela you're talking about democratically elected governments and still you find excuses to overthrow them. I know it feels good when the people in power tell you that there's an evil, scary government in some faraway place that really must be punished. You can get angry and rail against the foreign "evil". But the reality is the "evil" here is a little closer to home.

What was the excuse for the US-backed coup attempt in Venezuela in 2002 (which John Oliver forgot to mention)? Simple. Private profit. That's what it was all about. You can just look at the constitution the kidnappers of Hugo Chavez drew up when the coup was happening. It was all about privatizing everything, particularly the oil. Now the same people are at it again.


And the US has spent tens of millions backing the opposition in general. Funny how no-one seems to consider that "meddling".

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #26 posted 06/17/18 10:37am

2freaky4church
1

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North C, it helps to watch the video. Maduro is doing what the people want. They reelected him for crying out loud.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #27 posted 06/17/18 10:59am

NorthC

midnightmover said:



NorthC said:


Yeah, right. Assad, Maduro, the late Gadhaffi... All great guys, right? Here's the problem I have with the two of you, midnightmover & hausofmoi: you're absolutely correct in pointing out the wrongdoings of the USA and Europe, but it makes you blind for the wrongdoings of the other side.

No, you are morally irresponsible. Gadaffi was not a great guy, but it's a FACT that Libya was a far better place to live in when he was ruler than it was afterwards. Removing him was a wicked and immoral act since it was OBVIOUS that it would be a disaster. But your leaders play dumb and pretend that it's a surprise when it happens.

In Syria Assad lost control of most of the country at one point and who took over? Head chopping, throat slitting jihadi terrorists. But people like you just mindlessly chant mantras about Assad being a dictator as if it justifies your destruction of the country and your promotion of terrorism (that's what you're doing when you train and equip so-called "rebels" in these countries).

In the case of Ukraine and Venezuela you're talking about democratically elected governments and still you find excuses to overthrow them. I know it feels good when the people in power tell you that there's an evil, scary government in some faraway place that really must be punished. You can get angry and rail against the foreign "evil". But the reality is the "evil" here is a little closer to home.

What was the excuse for the US-backed coup attempt in Venezuela in 2002 (which John Oliver forgot to mention)? Simple. Private profit. That's what it was all about. You can just look at the constitution the kidnappers of Hugo Chavez drew up when the coup was happening. It was all about privatizing everything, particularly the oil. Now the same people are at it again.



And the US has spent tens of millions backing the opposition in general. Funny how no-one seems to consider that "meddling".


Once again: don't make it personal. I never supported any of those actions. I know foreign interventions only make things worse. Iraq, Afghanistan, the world is full of examples. But that still doesn't change the fact that Assad is a dictator. And so is Maduro. Democratically elected, my ass. Everywhere in South America, things are improving. No more dictators, no more civil wars, even in Colombia. Except Venezuela. And that's sad.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #28 posted 07/10/18 2:05am

hausofmoi7

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There have been some reports on various outlets this week emphasizing that Trump is seriously considering a militarily invasion of Venezuela.

When reporting on the issues occuring in Venezuela the western media are still refusing to point out the causes of the crisis, such as u.s sanctions blocking Venezuela from trading and freezing the nation's funds.






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[Edited 7/10/18 5:08am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #29 posted 07/10/18 2:16am

hausofmoi7

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NorthC said:

Yeah, right. Assad, Maduro, the late Gadhaffi... All great guys, right? Here's the problem I have with the two of you, midnightmover & hausofmoi: you're absolutely correct in pointing out the wrongdoings of the USA and Europe, but it makes you blind for the wrongdoings of the other side.


Maduro? lol
Maduro is basically Bernie Sanders in Venezuela.
Its kind of ridiculous to me how they are painting Maduro as some evil dictator.

Sure, you may disagree with him on the inner workings of some policies, but Maduro and the bolivarian revolution are not anything like how they are being portrayed.

Supporting the right wing opposition in Venezuela and its pro u.s imperialist agenda because you disagree on the inner workings of certain issues or policies with the current government is utterly nonsensical.
this is why the people will keep on voting for the current government and that is also the reason why the u.s are looking at sending the military to get Venezuela's oil, as they are unable to overthrow the current government through the political process to achieve this goal.







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[Edited 7/10/18 6:42am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Forums > Politics & Religion > Leftist debunks John Oliver's Venezuela propaganda