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Thread started 06/04/18 8:34am

free2bFreeda2

Trump: I have 'absolute right to pardon myself'



9:39 AM EDT, Mon June 04, 2018
President Donald Trump asserted Monday that he has the right to pardon himself but suggested that he won't use that power, adding that the special counsel investigation is "unconstitutional."

read more at link: https://www.google.com/am...index.html
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Reply #1 posted 06/04/18 8:54am

OnlyNDaUsa

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yes, he does there is not even an argument to be made to say otherwise. the one and only thing he can not do is use the power of the pardon to avoid impeachment.

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #2 posted 06/04/18 9:07am

luv4u

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

yes, he does there is not even an argument to be made to say otherwise. the one and only thing he can not do is use the power of the pardon to avoid impeachment.


Why did your former presidents not use that?

orangefaceisonehelluvalunatic lol Hurry up Mueller!

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Reply #3 posted 06/04/18 9:13am

free2bFreeda2

OnlyNDaUsa said:

yes, he does there is not even an argument to be made to say otherwise. the one and only thing he can not do is use the power of the pardon to avoid impeachment.





: https://www.google.com/am...index.html
for the sake of debate what do you base your statement on?
because i disagree based on the following:
No president has ever pardoned himself, so its legality is a matter of legal debate. But a three-page memo from the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel that was written in 1974 -- days before President Richard Nixon resigned -- says the President cannot pardon himself because "no one may be a judge in his own case."

[Edited 6/4/18 9:14am]
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Reply #4 posted 06/04/18 9:29am

free2bFreeda2

No, Trump can’t pardon himself. The Constitution tells us so.

July 21, 2017 at 7:58 PM
: https://www.google.com/am...story.html

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Reply #5 posted 06/04/18 9:50am

OnlyNDaUsa

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luv4u said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

yes, he does there is not even an argument to be made to say otherwise. the one and only thing he can not do is use the power of the pardon to avoid impeachment.


Why did your former presidents not use that?

orangefaceisonehelluvalunatic lol Hurry up Mueller!

I am not sure but it is his right to use it for any person for any federal crime other than impeachment. that is very clearly stated in Art II.

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #6 posted 06/04/18 9:52am

OnlyNDaUsa

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free2bFreeda2 said:

No, Trump can’t pardon himself. The Constitution tells us so. July 21, 2017 at 7:58 PM : https://www.google.com/am...story.htmlpopcorn

they are mistaken. they are likely confusing that it can not be used to escape being impeached. If the president was not allowed to do that it would have been stated in the Constitution.

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #7 posted 06/04/18 9:53am

OnlyNDaUsa

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free2bFreeda2 said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

yes, he does there is not even an argument to be made to say otherwise. the one and only thing he can not do is use the power of the pardon to avoid impeachment.

: https://www.google.com/am...index.html for the sake of debate what do you base your statement on? because i disagree based on the following:
No president has ever pardoned himself, so its legality is a matter of legal debate. But a three-page memo from the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel that was written in 1974 -- days before President Richard Nixon resigned -- says the President cannot pardon himself because "no one may be a judge in his own case."
[Edited 6/4/18 9:14am]

he is not acting as judge. it is a power vested in the POTUS. Self-pardon is not excluded so it is allowed--except for impeachment.

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #8 posted 06/04/18 10:05am

free2bFreeda2

OnlyNDaUsa said:


he is not acting as judge. it is a power vested in the POTUS. Self-pardon is not excluded so it is allowed--except for impeachment.


okay. okay! i read your words. I understand what your expressing, however where is your source to back up your statement?
unless i've missed some info about your being a practicing attorney. even so, one would be like an idiot to find any credibility in such a statement that is not based on fact.
PLEASE key in some sources..
Make
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Reply #9 posted 06/04/18 10:09am

luv4u

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free2bFreeda2 said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

he is not acting as judge. it is a power vested in the POTUS. Self-pardon is not excluded so it is allowed--except for impeachment.

okay. okay! i read your words. I understand what your expressing, however where is your source to back up your statement? unless i've missed some info about your being a practicing attorney. even so, one would be like an idiot to find any credibility in such a statement that is not based on fact. PLEASE key in some sources..


yeahthat

Edmonton, AB - canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #10 posted 06/04/18 10:10am

namepeace

What did we expect he'd say?

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

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Reply #11 posted 06/04/18 10:14am

OnlyNDaUsa

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free2bFreeda2 said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

he is not acting as judge. it is a power vested in the POTUS. Self-pardon is not excluded so it is allowed--except for impeachment.

okay. okay! i read your words. I understand what your expressing, however where is your source to back up your statement? unless i've missed some info about your being a practicing attorney. even so, one would be like an idiot to find any credibility in such a statement that is not based on fact. PLEASE key in some sources..

Art II Constitution of the United States of America.

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #12 posted 06/04/18 10:15am

OnlyNDaUsa

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namepeace said:

What did we expect he'd say?

who me? I would say the exact same no matter who was POTUS are you sure that if it was president hiillary who said she could do the same you would say she couldn't?

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #13 posted 06/04/18 10:17am

luv4u

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Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #14 posted 06/04/18 10:31am

OnlyNDaUsa

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luv4u said:


https://www.law.cornell.e.../articleii

https://constitutioncente.../articles/

" he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment."

the only exception to the power is for cases of impeachment. (Not just his own by the way ANYONE's)

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #15 posted 06/04/18 10:31am

free2bFreeda2



if d-dewed does elect to pardon his self then he would be king!
[Edited 6/4/18 11:00am]
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Reply #16 posted 06/04/18 10:34am

OnlyNDaUsa

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free2bFreeda2 said:

》 if d-dewed does elect to pardon his self then he would be kinh! [Edited 6/4/18 10:32am]

I absolutely agree it would be a very foolish move.

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #17 posted 06/04/18 11:38am

2freaky4church
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Not foolish, criminal.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #18 posted 06/04/18 11:44am

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

Not foolish, criminal.

so now you are saying issuing himself a pardon would be a crime in and of itself?

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #19 posted 06/04/18 1:18pm

namepeace

OnlyNDaUsa said:

namepeace said:

What did we expect he'd say?

who me? I would say the exact same no matter who was POTUS are you sure that if it was president hiillary who said she could do the same you would say she couldn't?


It wasn't about you, I was actually responding to the OP about Trump's comments.




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Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #20 posted 06/04/18 2:19pm

RodeoSchro

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The only time he can pardon himself is when he sneezes.

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Reply #21 posted 06/04/18 3:06pm

IanRG

There are temporal issues here:

.

If Trump is impeached and the impeachment court removes him from office and advises criminal charges should be laid, then how can Trump then pardon himself? By the time he is found guilty, he would no longer President. And the pardon would have no effect on his impeachment, so the world wins - regime change has been forced. The 1974 memo is already past this point - which is one reason why it looks for a potential two step where the Vice President temporarily becomes President and pardons the President after he is found guilty.

.

The real reason Trump is saying this is gameplay - a veilled threat that even if you charge me and a court finds me guilty for my crimes, I will just pardon myself. This only works whilst the Republicans think their future is tied to Trump. Even if they don't wake up to themselves about the damage Trump has done to the GOP, this has a natural time limit unless he overturns term limits Putin style. Even for Trump, to seek to pardon himself after being found guilty is political suicide and massively destructive to the US.

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Reply #22 posted 06/04/18 3:10pm

Graycap23

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Lol...100% jackass.

Yes....I'm in a Cult. We brainwash people into THINKING ............4 Themselves. FAMILIAR BONDAGE OVER FOREIGN FREEDOM
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Reply #23 posted 06/04/18 3:11pm

PennyPurple

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Why is he saying he can pardon himself,...if he did nothing wrong? biggrin

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Reply #24 posted 06/04/18 3:17pm

RodeoSchro

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The line "I'm the judge, jury and executioner" doesn't actually work in America. Not legally, anyway.

Our genius president's B-team of lawyers should do a little basic research.

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Reply #25 posted 06/04/18 3:23pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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IanRG said:

There are temporal issues here:

.

If Trump is impeached and the impeachment court removes him from office and advises criminal charges should be laid, then how can Trump then pardon himself? By the time he is found guilty, he would no longer President. And the pardon would have no effect on his impeachment, so the world wins - regime change has been forced. The 1974 memo is already past this point - which is one reason why it looks for a potential two step where the Vice President temporarily becomes President and pardons the President after he is found guilty.

.

The real reason Trump is saying this is gameplay - a veilled threat that even if you charge me and a court finds me guilty for my crimes, I will just pardon myself. This only works whilst the Republicans think their future is tied to Trump. Even if they don't wake up to themselves about the damage Trump has done to the GOP, this has a natural time limit unless he overturns term limits Putin style. Even for Trump, to seek to pardon himself after being found guilty is political suicide and massively destructive to the US.

few issues: 1) so far there is ZERO reason to assume he committed a crime. 2) he can pardon himself prior to being convicted. 3) there is no reason to even float that he might try to say past 8 years...and 3.a this idea was floated for gw bush and bill clinton because there is a law that allows for such if needed.

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #26 posted 06/04/18 3:24pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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PennyPurple said:

Why is he saying he can pardon himself,...if he did nothing wrong? biggrin

lol good point

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #27 posted 06/04/18 3:31pm

2elijah

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PennyPurple said:

Why is he saying he can pardon himself,...if he did nothing wrong? biggrin


Exactly. That’s like admitting he committed a crime.
FEARLESS
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Reply #28 posted 06/04/18 4:57pm

IanRG

OnlyNDaUsa said:

IanRG said:

There are temporal issues here:

.

If Trump is impeached and the impeachment court removes him from office and advises criminal charges should be laid, then how can Trump then pardon himself? By the time he is found guilty, he would no longer President. And the pardon would have no effect on his impeachment, so the world wins - regime change has been forced. The 1974 memo is already past this point - which is one reason why it looks for a potential two step where the Vice President temporarily becomes President and pardons the President after he is found guilty.

.

The real reason Trump is saying this is gameplay - a veilled threat that even if you charge me and a court finds me guilty for my crimes, I will just pardon myself. This only works whilst the Republicans think their future is tied to Trump. Even if they don't wake up to themselves about the damage Trump has done to the GOP, this has a natural time limit unless he overturns term limits Putin style. Even for Trump, to seek to pardon himself after being found guilty is political suicide and massively destructive to the US.

few issues: 1) so far there is ZERO reason to assume he committed a crime. 2) he can pardon himself prior to being convicted. 3) there is no reason to even float that he might try to say past 8 years...and 3.a this idea was floated for gw bush and bill clinton because there is a law that allows for such if needed.

.

For Trump to pardon himself from a crime there needs to be, at the very least, sufficient evidence for criminal charges to be laid - there needs to be charges of a crime to pardon BEFORE there can be a pardon for that crime. If charges are laid then there is good reason to assume he may have committed a crime (assumptions by people are different from presumptions by the court). That you understand that Nixon, GW Bush and Clinton also considered this is because you understand that there was not ZERO reason to assume they committed crimes - You don't study a last ditch, desparate defence like this unless you think you may need to.

.

It may be possible to pardon a crime after charges have been laid but before the courts have decided - I don't know. Anyway, this is putting the cart before the horse. When combined with it being a self-pardon, it would also LOUDLY SCREAM GUILT. To pardon yourself BEFORE being found guilty will be an indelible stain that will taint the Trump Presidency, the Republican Party and USA forever. Trump may be happy with that but during the criminal trial process and the fallout from him pardoning himself rather than face the courts for his crimes, the rest of the Republican Party will reconsider their futures. They will seek to separate themselves from a person who would then be even less than a lame duck - they would be a Nixon round their necks but a Nixon with less integrity. In politics perception is everything - At that point their only saving grace would be for Trump to be forced to quit or be removed from office by impeachment Nixon Style.

[Edited 6/4/18 17:17pm]

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Reply #29 posted 06/04/18 7:08pm

benni

IanRG said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

few issues: 1) so far there is ZERO reason to assume he committed a crime. 2) he can pardon himself prior to being convicted. 3) there is no reason to even float that he might try to say past 8 years...and 3.a this idea was floated for gw bush and bill clinton because there is a law that allows for such if needed.

.

For Trump to pardon himself from a crime there needs to be, at the very least, sufficient evidence for criminal charges to be laid - there needs to be charges of a crime to pardon BEFORE there can be a pardon for that crime. If charges are laid then there is good reason to assume he may have committed a crime (assumptions by people are different from presumptions by the court). That you understand that Nixon, GW Bush and Clinton also considered this is because you understand that there was not ZERO reason to assume they committed crimes - You don't study a last ditch, desparate defence like this unless you think you may need to.

.

It may be possible to pardon a crime after charges have been laid but before the courts have decided - I don't know. Anyway, this is putting the cart before the horse. When combined with it being a self-pardon, it would also LOUDLY SCREAM GUILT. To pardon yourself BEFORE being found guilty will be an indelible stain that will taint the Trump Presidency, the Republican Party and USA forever. Trump may be happy with that but during the criminal trial process and the fallout from him pardoning himself rather than face the courts for his crimes, the rest of the Republican Party will reconsider their futures. They will seek to separate themselves from a person who would then be even less than a lame duck - they would be a Nixon round their necks but a Nixon with less integrity. In politics perception is everything - At that point their only saving grace would be for Trump to be forced to quit or be removed from office by impeachment Nixon Style.

[Edited 6/4/18 17:17pm]



Charges do not necessarily have to be made in order to pardon someone. If there is an investigation, then the president can pardon that person prior to any charges being brought against that individual. Ford pardoned Nixon of any and all crimes that he may have committed from the date of his inauguration until his resignation. No charges had been filed against Nixon at that time. It's considered to be a pre-emptive pardon and they are extremely rare for a president to grant, but they have occurred. They'll usually involve a time range just to cover any crimes that occurred within that time frame.

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