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Reply #240 posted 01/12/18 6:56pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

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214 said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:




13cjk13 said:



SENATOR DICK DURBIN IS ONE OF YOUR UNNAMED SOURCES. FUCK 45 and every single person that voted for him and continues to defend this abomination in the white house.




The same guy that called him "dangerous" and called for him to be impeached in the past and said he was obstructing justice. Not a credible source. I don't trust Durbin or Graham.



I can't believe it, you're such a disgustin human being.



People should be allowed to come to America legally. They should follow rules. What I don't like from the left is the total disregard of any rules or caring if people come here legal. The Democratic party really celebrates people coming here illegally with dangerous policies and talking points.
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Reply #241 posted 01/12/18 7:52pm

benni

So here is where we stand with lawmakers who were in that meeting or those who were reported to following the meeting, before the words were released to the press:


Sen. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.) - “To no surprise the President started tweeting this morning, denying that he used those words,” Durbin said. “It is not true. He said these hate-filled things and he said them repeatedly.”

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) -

“Following comments by the President, I said my piece directly to him yesterday,” he said. “The President and all those attending the meeting know what I said and how I feel.”



Sens. Tom Cotton(R-Ark.) and David Perdue (R-Ga.) - “(W)e do not recall the President saying these comments specifically,” they said. “What he did call out was the imbalance in our current immigration system.”


House Speaker Paul Ryan(R-Wis.) - speaking at an event in his home state, called Trump’s words “very unfortunate, unhelpful.”


Reps. Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.) and Cedric Richmond(D-La.) announced that they will introduce a resolution next week to censure Trump over his comments.


Sen. Jeff Flake(R-Ariz.) also backed the reports.

“The words used by the President, as related to me directly following the meeting by those in attendance, were not “tough,” they were abhorrent and repulsive,” he tweeted.

Clinical social work is a healthcare profession based on theories & methods of prevention & treatment in providing mental-health/healthcare services, with special focus on behavioral & bio-psychosocial problems & disorders. Have U hugged an LMSW 2day?
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Reply #242 posted 01/12/18 8:01pm

luv4u

Moderator

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moderator

Trump partly denies, also defends vulgar comments

U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday offered a partial denial in public but privately defended his extraordinary remarks disparaging Haitians and African countries a day earlier. Trump said he was only expressing what many people think but won't say about immigrants from economically depressed countries, according to a person who spoke to the president as criticism of his comments ricocheted around the globe.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/wo...-1.4484323

Edmonton, AB - canada

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Reply #243 posted 01/12/18 8:09pm

benni

To those making comments about how why don't those in other countries stay in their own countries and try to improve it:

That's along the same type of thinking of, "Why doesn't an abused wife remain in an abusive relationship and try to make it better?" There is a sense of powerlessness in that situation, just as it would be for a citizen of a country that is faced with a lot of difficulties, poverty, wars, etc. You want and you hope for it to improve, but over time, you realize that you are powerless to change it and all you can think about is to get out and improve your own life in the best way that you can because you cannot if you remain.

We have sold the American Dream world wide since the dawn of America as a nation. We have told people to live the American Dream. And people have bought into that dream, hook, line, and sinker. People in poor countries, hear how great it is in America, where people are free to be whatever they want to be, can become rich over night, how wealthy this nation is, etc. They feel powerless to change their own country, and in fact, probably are powerless to change it. What America has offered, for a very long time, to the downtrodden around the globe, is hope. Hope for a better way of life for them and their families. Hope for a home of their own, to make something of themselves. We have said we live the way of life that every one should live. In fact, we believe that so strongly that we have gone to other countries and tried to enforce our way of life on to them. And now, we say, "No, there is no hope for you here. We don't want you here." All the while, those same people are seeing the ads, the magazine excerpts, hearing the propaganda, about the American Dream and how ANYONE can live the American Dream. And you all wonder why people of other countries want to come here?

We are the wolf in sheep's clothing. We've sold an illusion and everyone wants a piece of that illusion, but now it's unraveling and the world is starting to see the crumbling of that illusion in real time through Trump's presidency. They are starting to see that we've put on a front for all these years, because there is an undercurrent to this country that we try very hard to hide away from the rest of the world. But with Trump as president, that undercurrent is on show and is being spotlighted to the world. "You've heard about the American Dream, but here is America's nightmare." And that nightmare that is being spotlighted is racism runs deep as an undercurrent of this nation and when we said, "Anyone can live the American Dream" what we meant was, "Any white person can live the American Dream." It is the disgusting truth, the hopeless undercurrent, of this nation, and while those that have lived here have seen it, lived it, now the rest of the world is seeing it.

Clinical social work is a healthcare profession based on theories & methods of prevention & treatment in providing mental-health/healthcare services, with special focus on behavioral & bio-psychosocial problems & disorders. Have U hugged an LMSW 2day?
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Reply #244 posted 01/12/18 8:29pm

jjhunsecker

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2elijah said:

Lmao off at that idiot Pastor Burns trying to normalize trump’s comments. He’s part of trump’s so-called Evangelical council. What an idiot. Probably getting big bucks from trump.


These allegedly "religious " and "values " folks are just a joke- watching the contortions they twist themselves into defending an immoral and indecent man like whore monger Donald Trump
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Reply #245 posted 01/12/18 9:13pm

luv4u

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Diplomats scramble to contain outrage over Trump's remarks

Can Washington's global partnership withstand president's loose lips?

U.S. diplomats scrambled Friday to salvage their nation's bonds with Africa, Haiti and even the celebrated "special relationship" with Britain after President Donald Trump, in the span of a few hours, deeply offended much of the world with the most undiplomatic of remarks.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/wo...-1.4485929

Edmonton, AB - canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
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Reply #246 posted 01/12/18 9:39pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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benni said:

To those making comments about how why don't those in other countries stay in their own countries and try to improve it:

That's along the same type of thinking of, "Why doesn't an abused wife remain in an abusive relationship and try to make it better?" There is a sense of powerlessness in that situation, just as it would be for a citizen of a country that is faced with a lot of difficulties, poverty, wars, etc. You want and you hope for it to improve, but over time, you realize that you are powerless to change it and all you can think about is to get out and improve your own life in the best way that you can because you cannot if you remain.

We have sold the American Dream world wide since the dawn of America as a nation. We have told people to live the American Dream. And people have bought into that dream, hook, line, and sinker. People in poor countries, hear how great it is in America, where people are free to be whatever they want to be, can become rich over night, how wealthy this nation is, etc. They feel powerless to change their own country, and in fact, probably are powerless to change it. What America has offered, for a very long time, to the downtrodden around the globe, is hope. Hope for a better way of life for them and their families. Hope for a home of their own, to make something of themselves. We have said we live the way of life that every one should live. In fact, we believe that so strongly that we have gone to other countries and tried to enforce our way of life on to them. And now, we say, "No, there is no hope for you here. We don't want you here." All the while, those same people are seeing the ads, the magazine excerpts, hearing the propaganda, about the American Dream and how ANYONE can live the American Dream. And you all wonder why people of other countries want to come here?

We are the wolf in sheep's clothing. We've sold an illusion and everyone wants a piece of that illusion, but now it's unraveling and the world is starting to see the crumbling of that illusion in real time through Trump's presidency. They are starting to see that we've put on a front for all these years, because there is an undercurrent to this country that we try very hard to hide away from the rest of the world. But with Trump as president, that undercurrent is on show and is being spotlighted to the world. "You've heard about the American Dream, but here is America's nightmare." And that nightmare that is being spotlighted is racism runs deep as an undercurrent of this nation and when we said, "Anyone can live the American Dream" what we meant was, "Any white person can live the American Dream." It is the disgusting truth, the hopeless undercurrent, of this nation, and while those that have lived here have seen it, lived it, now the rest of the world is seeing it.



Not only that, trumps own grandfather jumped a ship and left his homeland in the middle of the night for a better life. His grandmother the same. When Trumps grandfather tried to return home, he was deported because he broke laws leaving without permission and fulfilling his own home country’s civil service. When people like Trump talk. It’s all racism straight up.
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Reply #247 posted 01/12/18 10:08pm

benni

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

benni said:

To those making comments about how why don't those in other countries stay in their own countries and try to improve it:

That's along the same type of thinking of, "Why doesn't an abused wife remain in an abusive relationship and try to make it better?" There is a sense of powerlessness in that situation, just as it would be for a citizen of a country that is faced with a lot of difficulties, poverty, wars, etc. You want and you hope for it to improve, but over time, you realize that you are powerless to change it and all you can think about is to get out and improve your own life in the best way that you can because you cannot if you remain.

We have sold the American Dream world wide since the dawn of America as a nation. We have told people to live the American Dream. And people have bought into that dream, hook, line, and sinker. People in poor countries, hear how great it is in America, where people are free to be whatever they want to be, can become rich over night, how wealthy this nation is, etc. They feel powerless to change their own country, and in fact, probably are powerless to change it. What America has offered, for a very long time, to the downtrodden around the globe, is hope. Hope for a better way of life for them and their families. Hope for a home of their own, to make something of themselves. We have said we live the way of life that every one should live. In fact, we believe that so strongly that we have gone to other countries and tried to enforce our way of life on to them. And now, we say, "No, there is no hope for you here. We don't want you here." All the while, those same people are seeing the ads, the magazine excerpts, hearing the propaganda, about the American Dream and how ANYONE can live the American Dream. And you all wonder why people of other countries want to come here?

We are the wolf in sheep's clothing. We've sold an illusion and everyone wants a piece of that illusion, but now it's unraveling and the world is starting to see the crumbling of that illusion in real time through Trump's presidency. They are starting to see that we've put on a front for all these years, because there is an undercurrent to this country that we try very hard to hide away from the rest of the world. But with Trump as president, that undercurrent is on show and is being spotlighted to the world. "You've heard about the American Dream, but here is America's nightmare." And that nightmare that is being spotlighted is racism runs deep as an undercurrent of this nation and when we said, "Anyone can live the American Dream" what we meant was, "Any white person can live the American Dream." It is the disgusting truth, the hopeless undercurrent, of this nation, and while those that have lived here have seen it, lived it, now the rest of the world is seeing it.

Not only that, trumps own grandfather jumped a ship and left his homeland in the middle of the night for a better life. His grandmother the same. When Trumps grandfather tried to return home, he was deported because he broke laws leaving without permission and fulfilling his own home country’s civil service. When people like Trump talk. It’s all racism straight up.


True, regarding his grandfather leaving his homeland and coming to America for a better life. But that is what Trump is saying he would like to see as immigrant, people like his grandfather. What Trump doesn't understand is that his story isn't unique to white immigrants. There have been quite a few black immigrants that have come to America and built a better way of life too. And some from that very continent that he so casually denigrated.

I just read a news article in which, right after Trump became president, he was talking about welfare reform. One of the other Senator's in the discussion commented that it would hurt quite a few of her constituents if he undertook that reform, and went on to say, "And they aren't all black." Trump's response was, "Really? What are they then?" Which to me, implies that he thinks all welfare recipients are black and could not imagine anything else. Yes, it is all racism, straight up, with Trump and it's time people call out individuals like Trump and let them know that we, as a nation, are not going to put up with that kind of ideology.

[Edited 1/12/18 22:10pm]

Clinical social work is a healthcare profession based on theories & methods of prevention & treatment in providing mental-health/healthcare services, with special focus on behavioral & bio-psychosocial problems & disorders. Have U hugged an LMSW 2day?
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Reply #248 posted 01/12/18 11:25pm

maplenpg

benni said:

To those making comments about how why don't those in other countries stay in their own countries and try to improve it:

That's along the same type of thinking of, "Why doesn't an abused wife remain in an abusive relationship and try to make it better?" There is a sense of powerlessness in that situation, just as it would be for a citizen of a country that is faced with a lot of difficulties, poverty, wars, etc. You want and you hope for it to improve, but over time, you realize that you are powerless to change it and all you can think about is to get out and improve your own life in the best way that you can because you cannot if you remain.

We have sold the American Dream world wide since the dawn of America as a nation. We have told people to live the American Dream. And people have bought into that dream, hook, line, and sinker. People in poor countries, hear how great it is in America, where people are free to be whatever they want to be, can become rich over night, how wealthy this nation is, etc. They feel powerless to change their own country, and in fact, probably are powerless to change it. What America has offered, for a very long time, to the downtrodden around the globe, is hope. Hope for a better way of life for them and their families. Hope for a home of their own, to make something of themselves. We have said we live the way of life that every one should live. In fact, we believe that so strongly that we have gone to other countries and tried to enforce our way of life on to them. And now, we say, "No, there is no hope for you here. We don't want you here." All the while, those same people are seeing the ads, the magazine excerpts, hearing the propaganda, about the American Dream and how ANYONE can live the American Dream. And you all wonder why people of other countries want to come here?

We are the wolf in sheep's clothing. We've sold an illusion and everyone wants a piece of that illusion, but now it's unraveling and the world is starting to see the crumbling of that illusion in real time through Trump's presidency. They are starting to see that we've put on a front for all these years, because there is an undercurrent to this country that we try very hard to hide away from the rest of the world. But with Trump as president, that undercurrent is on show and is being spotlighted to the world. "You've heard about the American Dream, but here is America's nightmare." And that nightmare that is being spotlighted is racism runs deep as an undercurrent of this nation and when we said, "Anyone can live the American Dream" what we meant was, "Any white person can live the American Dream." It is the disgusting truth, the hopeless undercurrent, of this nation, and while those that have lived here have seen it, lived it, now the rest of the world is seeing it.


Great post Benni.
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Reply #249 posted 01/12/18 11:30pm

maplenpg

RodeoSchro said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:




RodeoSchro said:





Where did the $1.2 billion to build the new embassy come from?




What is sad is the building is a real POS eye sore.





Maybe, but that doesn't answer the question I asked.


Shall I answer Rodeo as Super either doesn't know or is not answering? The US embassy in London was built entirely from the proceeds of selling other US government owned buildings in London. But I suspect you knew that.
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Reply #250 posted 01/13/18 12:03am

maplenpg

djThunderfunk said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

CEO's of major corporations have been thrown on their ass for far far less. Actors and accusations of misconduct have been ostracized from Hollywood and unemployable. A teacher, a police officer, a county employee would have lost their jobs. But we have allowed this disgusting human being to represent us. Some of us just sit back and symbolically eat popcorn and find it funny. We in aggregate have shown our true colors and how truly disgusting we as a society are.


I replaced what I originally wrote with the emoticon because I realized most of you would incorrectly take it as "defending trump". Since the popcorn emoji is evidently as offensive as what I orignally said, I may as well put it back up:

I don't like the trumpclown and I don't find anything about this "funny". I personally find his alleged comments to be extremely unpresidential. I don't find the word "shithole" to be racist when it's properly used to describe a place (not people).

https://en.oxforddictiona...n/shithole


I've used the word. I probably will again.



[Edited 1/12/18 17:56pm]

Whether you like it or not, you are defending his alleged racism by your comments. There is no doubt he is racist. His comments and actions have time and time again proved it.

All words, combinations of words, sentences etc... carry meaning. It might be that single words alone have one meaning but, when placed with other words the meaning changes. It might be that through language evolution the meaning of a word changes over time. In this case, we need not just to concentrate on one word, but on the whole message. There as been a BBC article over here (UK) which I will quote from:


"A statement is racist when it explicitly denigrates and/or asserts as true a negative, longstanding stereotype about an entire group of people, signal
led by the colour of their skin. "Shithole" fits the bill in the vilest way. Those who manage with a straight face to say Trump's words were not racist no doubt will point out that he did not specify that black people from these countries are shitholes. But, he did not have to.

We have longstanding and differential associations between the colours white and black. For much of our recent history, white has always represented all that is pure, clean, desirable. These associations are found in the language of our dictionaries, the one-time definition of Africa as the "dark continent", and the way we demarcated slaves from non-slaves throughout the slave trade.

[...] Because of these longstanding and pervasive associations between black and white, Trump need only connect a few dots to express his racism. Denigrate immigrants from countries like Africa and Haiti as shitholes with no value, then specify their opposite - people from "Norway". Even a little girl can see what the primary difference is between the two."

In addition to this, you say that you have used the word, and that you will likely use it again. I hate to break it to you DJ but you are not the president of the USA. If Trump had used those words to describe a poor, white area of the US then I suspect there would have been uproar too (but I suspect he wouldn't do this). As president, Trump needs to realise that using layman's language, taboo language or slang (call it what you will), portrays an image of someone who is uneducated, someone who can ony communicate at the lowest level, and someone who is not communicating with world leaders but with the man on the street, who he knows will defend him, even if they disagree with the term he used. A shithole has the darkest connotations - in truth we shouldn't be using the term for any geographic area at all, white or black. It would have been entirely different if Trump had questioned, using neutral language, why the immigration policy was different for some countries than others but, using the syntax he used, Trump blatently displayed his racism. To deny that is to defend him (especially given all of his other racist comments so far). Trump clearly wants a white America, that started a while back with the travel ban, and Rodeo's interpretation of the comments was spot-on.

EDIT TO ADD: Even if you still disagree, then agree that the fact is, as president, he shouldn't be using any language that has any ambiguity at all, especially when he knows the spotlight is already on him for being a racist president. He could easily have discussed the immigration policies without using that choice of language.



[Edited 1/13/18 0:07am]

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Reply #251 posted 01/13/18 1:30am

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

maplenpg said:

RodeoSchro said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:




RodeoSchro said:





Where did the $1.2 billion to build the new embassy come from?




What is sad is the building is a real POS eye sore.





Maybe, but that doesn't answer the question I asked.


Shall I answer Rodeo as Super either doesn't know or is not answering? The US embassy in London was built entirely from the proceeds of selling other US government owned buildings in London. But I suspect you knew that.


It is still money that could have been spent more wisely. These buildings are eye sores and a slap in the face to traditionalists culture of UK.
You better Watch Out! I'm a WAR MACHINE!
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Reply #252 posted 01/13/18 4:16am

maplenpg

SuperFurryAnimal said:

maplenpg said:
Shall I answer Rodeo as Super either doesn't know or is not answering? The US embassy in London was built entirely from the proceeds of selling other US government owned buildings in London. But I suspect you knew that.
It is still money that could have been spent more wisely. These buildings are eye sores and a slap in the face to traditionalists culture of UK.

Come back when you have any idea what you are talking about.

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Reply #253 posted 01/13/18 5:16am

poppys

maplenpg said:

djThunderfunk said:


I replaced what I originally wrote with the emoticon because I realized most of you would incorrectly take it as "defending trump". Since the popcorn emoji is evidently as offensive as what I orignally said, I may as well put it back up:

I don't like the trumpclown and I don't find anything about this "funny". I personally find his alleged comments to be extremely unpresidential. I don't find the word "shithole" to be racist when it's properly used to describe a place (not people).

https://en.oxforddictiona...n/shithole


I've used the word. I probably will again.



[Edited 1/12/18 17:56pm]

Whether you like it or not, you are defending his alleged racism by your comments. There is no doubt he is racist. His comments and actions have time and time again proved it.

All words, combinations of words, sentences etc... carry meaning. It might be that single words alone have one meaning but, when placed with other words the meaning changes. It might be that through language evolution the meaning of a word changes over time. In this case, we need not just to concentrate on one word, but on the whole message. There as been a BBC article over here (UK) which I will quote from:


"A statement is racist when it explicitly denigrates and/or asserts as true a negative, longstanding stereotype about an entire group of people, signal
led by the colour of their skin. "Shithole" fits the bill in the vilest way. Those who manage with a straight face to say Trump's words were not racist no doubt will point out that he did not specify that black people from these countries are shitholes. But, he did not have to.

We have longstanding and differential associations between the colours white and black. For much of our recent history, white has always represented all that is pure, clean, desirable. These associations are found in the language of our dictionaries, the one-time definition of Africa as the "dark continent", and the way we demarcated slaves from non-slaves throughout the slave trade.

[...] Because of these longstanding and pervasive associations between black and white, Trump need only connect a few dots to express his racism. Denigrate immigrants from countries like Africa and Haiti as shitholes with no value, then specify their opposite - people from "Norway". Even a little girl child can see what the primary difference between the two."

In addition to this, you say that you have used the word, and that you will likely use it again. I hate to break it to you DJ but you are not the president of the USA. If Trump had used those words to describe a poor, white area of the US then I suspect there would have been uproar too (but I suspect he wouldn't do this). As president, Trump needs to realise that using layman's language, taboo language or slang (call it what you will), portrays an image of someone who is uneducated, someone who can ony communicate at the lowest level, and someone who is not communicating with world leaders but with the man on the street, who he knows will defend him, even if they disagree with the term he used. A shithole has the darkest connotations - in truth we shouldn't be using the term for any geographic area at all, white or black. It would have been entirely different if Trump had questioned, using neutral language, why the immigration policy was different for some countries than others but, using the syntax he used, Trump blatently displayed his racism. To deny that is to defend him (especially given all of his other racist comments so far). Trump clearly wants a white America, that started a while back with the travel ban, and Rodeo's interpretation of the comments was spot-on.

EDIT TO ADD: Even if you still disagree, then agree that the fact is, as president, he shouldn't be using any language that has any ambiguity at all, especially when he knows the spotlight is already on him for being a racist president. He could easily have discussed the immigration policies without using that choice of language.


Truly thoughtful post, maplenpg

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Reply #254 posted 01/13/18 5:17am

poppys

maplenpg said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

maplenpg said: It is still money that could have been spent more wisely. These buildings are eye sores and a slap in the face to traditionalists culture of UK.

Come back when you have any idea what you are talking about.

lol

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Reply #255 posted 01/13/18 5:35am

poppys

SoulAlive said:

Trump’s mouth is a shithole. Everything he says is bullshit.

#bocacaca

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Reply #256 posted 01/13/18 5:51am

2elijah

avatar

Silvertongue7 said:

Those who Trump refers to as ‘very fine people’ are happy today:
“This is encouraging and refreshing, as it indicates Trump is more or less on the same page as us with regards to race and immigration.”
https://dailystormer.red/...y-instead/

Members of those type of groups, are a bunch of very low self-esteem, insecure, jealous individuals, afraid of the progress of Black and Brown people in America, and blame Black and Brown Americans, for their failures. They don’t wwnt to admit that they are the blame for their own failures.

The history speaks for itself. Even during the days of segregation, many poor and uneducated Whites, jumped on horses, put on their clown white sheets, terrorized wealthy, Black communities, committed murder, theft, and stole land and deeds from American Blacks, during the early 1900s.

Trump is using his racist beliefs to draw in these types, to feed his own racial prejudice, that he was taught by his fathet, who supported the bs white supremacy beliefs of the kkk. I told you all that trump’s presidency was about the fear of the browning of America, and his focus is on ethnic cleansing, which is why he is focusing on immigration and verbally targeting immigrants, from
Brown and Black countries. He is using the white nationalists, kkk groups, and other white racist groups, as his support and weapon, to maintain and stir up the racial anger/hate, insecurities, that he knows already exists within these racist individuals. Some of those racists are so sick and demented, they would be happy if Blacks and Brown people were exterminated from this country. Yet, the fact is, those same racists are descendants of European immigrants, but have a false belief that America belongs to Whites.

Trump is very insecure of the progress of Blackand Brown Americans. He is very insecure of Obama’s intellect and success. He is still so angry, that a man of African descent was elected as President of America, and his anger towards former President Obama has become a sick obsession.
[Edited 1/13/18 5:55am]
'Trump voters got Hoodwinked by Trump' popcorn coke
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Reply #257 posted 01/13/18 6:16am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

He is done. Any defender is deplorable and is a piece of shit.

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #258 posted 01/13/18 6:17am

2elijah

avatar

benni said:

To those making comments about how why don't those in other countries stay in their own countries and try to improve it:

That's along the same type of thinking of, "Why doesn't an abused wife remain in an abusive relationship and try to make it better?" There is a sense of powerlessness in that situation, just as it would be for a citizen of a country that is faced with a lot of difficulties, poverty, wars, etc. You want and you hope for it to improve, but over time, you realize that you are powerless to change it and all you can think about is to get out and improve your own life in the best way that you can because you cannot if you remain.

We have sold the American Dream world wide since the dawn of America as a nation. We have told people to live the American Dream. And people have bought into that dream, hook, line, and sinker. People in poor countries, hear how great it is in America, where people are free to be whatever they want to be, can become rich over night, how wealthy this nation is, etc. They feel powerless to change their own country, and in fact, probably are powerless to change it. What America has offered, for a very long time, to the downtrodden around the globe, is hope. Hope for a better way of life for them and their families. Hope for a home of their own, to make something of themselves. We have said we live the way of life that every one should live. In fact, we believe that so strongly that we have gone to other countries and tried to enforce our way of life on to them. And now, we say, "No, there is no hope for you here. We don't want you here." All the while, those same people are seeing the ads, the magazine excerpts, hearing the propaganda, about the American Dream and how ANYONE can live the American Dream. And you all wonder why people of other countries want to come here?

We are the wolf in sheep's clothing. We've sold an illusion and everyone wants a piece of that illusion, but now it's unraveling and the world is starting to see the crumbling of that illusion in real time through Trump's presidency. They are starting to see that we've put on a front for all these years, because there is an undercurrent to this country that we try very hard to hide away from the rest of the world. But with Trump as president, that undercurrent is on show and is being spotlighted to the world. "You've heard about the American Dream, but here is America's nightmare." And that nightmare that is being spotlighted is racism runs deep as an undercurrent of this nation and when we said, "Anyone can live the American Dream" what we meant was, "Any white person can live the American Dream." It is the disgusting truth, the hopeless undercurrent, of this nation, and while those that have lived here have seen it, lived it, now the rest of the world is seeing it.


The undercurrent is the hidden racism. It’s the hidden secret between the lines of the Pledge of Allegiance, and National Anthem. This is why for many years, anyone that tried to expose America’s racism, was verbally attacked, accused of ‘crying victim’ or using ‘race’ as a crutch or ‘playing the ‘race card.’

Racism is Anerica’s ugly truth. The ugly truth hidden in the words, written on the ‘Statue of Liberty,’ while Jim Crow, segregation laws, police brutality against the Black and Brown, and racial discrimination in every sector of American society, while people were marching in the streets, throughout America fighting for equality and their civil right to be treated as human beings.

All those societal ills were/and some of it, still happening in the ‘real’ America, that many outside of it, don’t see. Now the truth has finally come out, that America at this time, is not ‘welcoming to all’ except for a ‘specific type,’ according to America’s current, and racist president.
[Edited 1/13/18 6:31am]
'Trump voters got Hoodwinked by Trump' popcorn coke
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Reply #259 posted 01/13/18 6:33am

djThunderfunk

avatar

maplenpg said:

djThunderfunk said:


I replaced what I originally wrote with the emoticon because I realized most of you would incorrectly take it as "defending trump". Since the popcorn emoji is evidently as offensive as what I orignally said, I may as well put it back up:

I don't like the trumpclown and I don't find anything about this "funny". I personally find his alleged comments to be extremely unpresidential. I don't find the word "shithole" to be racist when it's properly used to describe a place (not people).

https://en.oxforddictiona...n/shithole


I've used the word. I probably will again.



[Edited 1/12/18 17:56pm]

Whether you like it or not, you are defending his alleged racism by your comments. There is no doubt he is racist. His comments and actions have time and time again proved it.

All words, combinations of words, sentences etc... carry meaning. It might be that single words alone have one meaning but, when placed with other words the meaning changes. It might be that through language evolution the meaning of a word changes over time. In this case, we need not just to concentrate on one word, but on the whole message. There as been a BBC article over here (UK) which I will quote from:


"A statement is racist when it explicitly denigrates and/or asserts as true a negative, longstanding stereotype about an entire group of people, signal
led by the colour of their skin. "Shithole" fits the bill in the vilest way. Those who manage with a straight face to say Trump's words were not racist no doubt will point out that he did not specify that black people from these countries are shitholes. But, he did not have to.

We have longstanding and differential associations between the colours white and black. For much of our recent history, white has always represented all that is pure, clean, desirable. These associations are found in the language of our dictionaries, the one-time definition of Africa as the "dark continent", and the way we demarcated slaves from non-slaves throughout the slave trade.

[...] Because of these longstanding and pervasive associations between black and white, Trump need only connect a few dots to express his racism. Denigrate immigrants from countries like Africa and Haiti as shitholes with no value, then specify their opposite - people from "Norway". Even a little girl can see what the primary difference is between the two."

In addition to this, you say that you have used the word, and that you will likely use it again. I hate to break it to you DJ but you are not the president of the USA. If Trump had used those words to describe a poor, white area of the US then I suspect there would have been uproar too (but I suspect he wouldn't do this). As president, Trump needs to realise that using layman's language, taboo language or slang (call it what you will), portrays an image of someone who is uneducated, someone who can ony communicate at the lowest level, and someone who is not communicating with world leaders but with the man on the street, who he knows will defend him, even if they disagree with the term he used. A shithole has the darkest connotations - in truth we shouldn't be using the term for any geographic area at all, white or black. It would have been entirely different if Trump had questioned, using neutral language, why the immigration policy was different for some countries than others but, using the syntax he used, Trump blatently displayed his racism. To deny that is to defend him (especially given all of his other racist comments so far). Trump clearly wants a white America, that started a while back with the travel ban, and Rodeo's interpretation of the comments was spot-on.

EDIT TO ADD: Even if you still disagree, then agree that the fact is, as president, he shouldn't be using any language that has any ambiguity at all, especially when he knows the spotlight is already on him for being a racist president. He could easily have discussed the immigration policies without using that choice of language.



[Edited 1/13/18 0:07am]


No. I am not defending the trumpclown nor am I defending any racism. Whether you like it or not, I merely pointed out that by definition the word shithole is not a racist word because it's a word to describe places, not people. As for your last paragraph, I ALREADY agreed that he shouldn't have used the word, and stated that it was unpresidential. I find him and his words to be an embarassment for the entire country. Anybody who believes that I am defending HIM or his choice of words either has a severe reading disability or is choosing to be willfully obtuse.



[Edited 1/13/18 6:36am]

We were HERE, where were you?

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Reply #260 posted 01/13/18 6:41am

deebee

avatar

benni said:

[W]hen we said, "Anyone can live the American Dream" what we meant was, "Any white person can live the American Dream."

I tend to think that when it finally clicks that the bolded is not actually true either - increasingly so, as the middle-class hollows and work becomes more precarious - a wide coalition of subjugated groups will be better prepared to demand the kinds of reform needed to give ordinary people the chance of a decent life. Unsurprisingly, prevailing ideologies are ranged against that happening.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #261 posted 01/13/18 6:43am

deebee

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

[B]y definition the word shithole is not a racist word because it's a word to describe places, not people.

Out of interest, what comes out of a shithole?

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #262 posted 01/13/18 6:44am

2freaky4church
1

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He will really hurt foreign policy. It could even cause unrest in Africa. It certainly will raise terrorism. Good recruiting for Boco Haram.

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #263 posted 01/13/18 6:45am

2freaky4church
1

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DJ, quit showing your hand.

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #264 posted 01/13/18 6:51am

benni

2elijah said:

benni said:

To those making comments about how why don't those in other countries stay in their own countries and try to improve it:

That's along the same type of thinking of, "Why doesn't an abused wife remain in an abusive relationship and try to make it better?" There is a sense of powerlessness in that situation, just as it would be for a citizen of a country that is faced with a lot of difficulties, poverty, wars, etc. You want and you hope for it to improve, but over time, you realize that you are powerless to change it and all you can think about is to get out and improve your own life in the best way that you can because you cannot if you remain.

We have sold the American Dream world wide since the dawn of America as a nation. We have told people to live the American Dream. And people have bought into that dream, hook, line, and sinker. People in poor countries, hear how great it is in America, where people are free to be whatever they want to be, can become rich over night, how wealthy this nation is, etc. They feel powerless to change their own country, and in fact, probably are powerless to change it. What America has offered, for a very long time, to the downtrodden around the globe, is hope. Hope for a better way of life for them and their families. Hope for a home of their own, to make something of themselves. We have said we live the way of life that every one should live. In fact, we believe that so strongly that we have gone to other countries and tried to enforce our way of life on to them. And now, we say, "No, there is no hope for you here. We don't want you here." All the while, those same people are seeing the ads, the magazine excerpts, hearing the propaganda, about the American Dream and how ANYONE can live the American Dream. And you all wonder why people of other countries want to come here?

We are the wolf in sheep's clothing. We've sold an illusion and everyone wants a piece of that illusion, but now it's unraveling and the world is starting to see the crumbling of that illusion in real time through Trump's presidency. They are starting to see that we've put on a front for all these years, because there is an undercurrent to this country that we try very hard to hide away from the rest of the world. But with Trump as president, that undercurrent is on show and is being spotlighted to the world. "You've heard about the American Dream, but here is America's nightmare." And that nightmare that is being spotlighted is racism runs deep as an undercurrent of this nation and when we said, "Anyone can live the American Dream" what we meant was, "Any white person can live the American Dream." It is the disgusting truth, the hopeless undercurrent, of this nation, and while those that have lived here have seen it, lived it, now the rest of the world is seeing it.

The undercurrent is the hidden racism. It’s the hidden secret between the lines of the Pledge of Allegiance, and National Anthem. This is why for many years, anyone that tried to expose America’s racism, was verbally attacked, accused of ‘crying victim’ or using ‘race’ as a crutch or ‘playing the ‘race card.’ Racism is Anerica’s ugly truth. The ugly truth hidden in the words, written on the ‘Statue of Liberty,’ while Jim Crow, segregation laws, police brutality against the Black and Brown, and racial discrimination in every sector of American society, while people were marching in the streets, throughout America fighting for equality and their civil right to be treated as human beings. All those societal ills were/and some of it, still happening in the ‘real’ America, that many outside of it, don’t see. Now the truth has finally come out, that America at this time, is not ‘welcoming to all’ except for a ‘specific type,’ according to America’s current, and racist president. [Edited 1/13/18 6:31am]



Exactly. And it's disheartening. But I wonder if maybe it should be seen. Things that are hidden are easy to ignore, deny, and do nothing about, but once it's had a light shone on it and it is revealed for the ugly monster it is, then maybe, maybe, people will be forced to truly address it.

Clinical social work is a healthcare profession based on theories & methods of prevention & treatment in providing mental-health/healthcare services, with special focus on behavioral & bio-psychosocial problems & disorders. Have U hugged an LMSW 2day?
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Reply #265 posted 01/13/18 6:51am

maplenpg

djThunderfunk said:



maplenpg said:




djThunderfunk said:




I replaced what I originally wrote with the emoticon because I realized most of you would incorrectly take it as "defending trump". Since the popcorn emoji is evidently as offensive as what I orignally said, I may as well put it back up:

I don't like the trumpclown and I don't find anything about this "funny". I personally find his alleged comments to be extremely unpresidential. I don't find the word "shithole" to be racist when it's properly used to describe a place (not people).

https://en.oxforddictiona...n/shithole



I've used the word. I probably will again.




[Edited 1/12/18 17:56pm]



Whether you like it or not, you are defending his alleged racism by your comments. There is no doubt he is racist. His comments and actions have time and time again proved it.



All words, combinations of words, sentences etc... carry meaning. It might be that single words alone have one meaning but, when placed with other words the meaning changes. It might be that through language evolution the meaning of a word changes over time. In this case, we need not just to concentrate on one word, but on the whole message. There as been a BBC article over here (UK) which I will quote from:



"A statement is racist when it explicitly denigrates and/or asserts as true a negative, longstanding stereotype about an entire group of people, signal
led by the colour of their skin. "Shithole" fits the bill in the vilest way. Those who manage with a straight face to say Trump's words were not racist no doubt will point out that he did not specify that black people from these countries are shitholes. But, he did not have to.


We have longstanding and differential associations between the colours white and black. For much of our recent history, white has always represented all that is pure, clean, desirable. These associations are found in the language of our dictionaries, the one-time definition of Africa as the "dark continent", and the way we demarcated slaves from non-slaves throughout the slave trade.

[...] Because of these longstanding and pervasive associations between black and white, Trump need only connect a few dots to express his racism. Denigrate immigrants from countries like Africa and Haiti as shitholes with no value, then specify their opposite - people from "Norway". Even a little girl can see what the primary difference is between the two."

In addition to this, you say that you have used the word, and that you will likely use it again. I hate to break it to you DJ but you are not the president of the USA. If Trump had used those words to describe a poor, white area of the US then I suspect there would have been uproar too (but I suspect he wouldn't do this). As president, Trump needs to realise that using layman's language, taboo language or slang (call it what you will), portrays an image of someone who is uneducated, someone who can ony communicate at the lowest level, and someone who is not communicating with world leaders but with the man on the street, who he knows will defend him, even if they disagree with the term he used. A shithole has the darkest connotations - in truth we shouldn't be using the term for any geographic area at all, white or black. It would have been entirely different if Trump had questioned, using neutral language, why the immigration policy was different for some countries than others but, using the syntax he used, Trump blatently displayed his racism. To deny that is to defend him (especially given all of his other racist comments so far). Trump clearly wants a white America, that started a while back with the travel ban, and Rodeo's interpretation of the comments was spot-on.



EDIT TO ADD: Even if you still disagree, then agree that the fact is, as president, he shouldn't be using any language that has any ambiguity at all, especially when he knows the spotlight is already on him for being a racist president. He could easily have discussed the immigration policies without using that choice of language.





[Edited 1/13/18 0:07am]




No. I am not defending the trumpclown nor am I defending any racism. Whether you like it or not, I merely pointed out that by definition the word shithole is not a racist word because it's a word to describe places, not people. As for your last paragraph, I ALREADY agreed that he shouldn't have used the word, and stated that it was unpresidential. I find him and his words to be an embarassment for the entire country. Anybody who believes that I am defending HIM or his choice of words either has a severe reading disability or is choosing to be willfully obtuse.



[Edited 1/13/18 6:36am]


Why red? Of course, pragmatically we can make all sorts of meaning from a single utterance, but, when used in the context of other utterances, and travel bans, and support of white supremacists then there is a clear picture of racism. But I believe that so many people on here have already summed up why the utterance alone is racist, you are choosing to deny it, and that is your opinion, which you are welcome to.
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Reply #266 posted 01/13/18 6:56am

djThunderfunk

avatar

maplenpg said:

djThunderfunk said:


No. I am not defending the trumpclown nor am I defending any racism. Whether you like it or not, I merely pointed out that by definition the word shithole is not a racist word because it's a word to describe places, not people. As for your last paragraph, I ALREADY agreed that he shouldn't have used the word, and stated that it was unpresidential. I find him and his words to be an embarassment for the entire country. Anybody who believes that I am defending HIM or his choice of words either has a severe reading disability or is choosing to be willfully obtuse.



[Edited 1/13/18 6:36am]

Why red? Of course, pragmatically we can make all sorts of meaning from a single utterance, but, when used in the context of other utterances, and travel bans, and support of white supremacists then there is a clear picture of racism. But I believe that so many people on here have already summed up why the utterance alone is racist, you are choosing to deny it, and that is your opinion, which you are welcome to.


I have merely stated that the word when used properly to describe a place is not a racist word. If used improperly, such as to describe people, it would be disparaging for sure and yes potentially racist. Allegedly he used the word to describe places.

Regardless, it is embarassing and unpresidential and I do NOT give him a pass for saying it, nor do I condone or apologize for it.


We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #267 posted 01/13/18 6:59am

maplenpg

deebee said:



djThunderfunk said:





[B]y definition the word shithole is not a racist word because it's a word to describe places, not people.



Out of interest, what comes out of a shithole?


lol but you've summed it up perfectly (again)- for some to deny there are any negative connotations regarding the people that live in the so-called 'shithole' makes my mind boggle.
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Reply #268 posted 01/13/18 7:03am

benni

deebee said:

benni said:

[W]hen we said, "Anyone can live the American Dream" what we meant was, "Any white person can live the American Dream."

I tend to think that when it finally clicks that the bolded is not actually true either - increasingly so, as the middle-class hollows and work becomes more precarious - a wide coalition of subjugated groups will be better prepared to demand the kinds of reform needed to give ordinary people the chance of a decent life. Unsurprisingly, prevailing ideologies are ranged against that happening.


But the American Dream isn't sold as a class ideology, it is sold to everyone. The whole ideology behind the concept of the American Dream was that "anyone" can achieve it, and historically it was true, except for blacks. I think of the heyday of the American Dream as being in the 1940s & 1950s. I would argue that it is in the last 40 years, certainly within my generation, that the American Dream became more of a class issue, and was less available to poor individuals, regardless of race, but to achieve the American Dream remains prevalently white washed. And if you look at how American has been sold overseas, the ideology of who or what America is, they do not say, "Hey, if you're poor, uneducated, not to mention if you are black or brown, we don't want you here." It is sold as the land of opportunity for all people. It has been sold as the land of plenty. It's not until Trump that you begin to see blantantly America being sold as a country of, "Only give us your best, your economically sound people, except if they are black and brown."

Clinical social work is a healthcare profession based on theories & methods of prevention & treatment in providing mental-health/healthcare services, with special focus on behavioral & bio-psychosocial problems & disorders. Have U hugged an LMSW 2day?
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Reply #269 posted 01/13/18 7:06am

maplenpg

djThunderfunk said:



maplenpg said:


djThunderfunk said:



No. I am not defending the trumpclown nor am I defending any racism. Whether you like it or not, I merely pointed out that by definition the word shithole is not a racist word because it's a word to describe places, not people. As for your last paragraph, I ALREADY agreed that he shouldn't have used the word, and stated that it was unpresidential. I find him and his words to be an embarassment for the entire country. Anybody who believes that I am defending HIM or his choice of words either has a severe reading disability or is choosing to be willfully obtuse.




[Edited 1/13/18 6:36am]


Forgive me, I am about to scream - yes, if I say my house is a shithole, then I am not being racist, but it does imply something about me and my attitude towards cleanliness. When you compare two whole countries to shitholes, you make swathing judgements about the people who live in those countries. When you then take into consideration that the dominant colour of residents in said countries are black and then compare it to another country where the dominant colour is white, you show your hand as judging the residents based predominantly, but not exclusively on colour.

Why red? Of course, pragmatically we can make all sorts of meaning from a single utterance, but, when used in the context of other utterances, and travel bans, and support of white supremacists then there is a clear picture of racism. But I believe that so many people on here have already summed up why the utterance alone is racist, you are choosing to deny it, and that is your opinion, which you are welcome to.


I have merely stated that the word when used properly to describe a place is not a racist word. If used improperly, such as to describe people, it would be disparaging for sure and yes potentially racist. Allegedly he used the word to describe places.

Regardless, it is embarassing and unpresidential and I do NOT give him a pass for saying it, nor do I condone or apologize for it.



When used properly? If I say my house is a shithole then it implies that cleanliness is not my top priority and that laziness in failing to clean up is probable. I agree, I am not being racist if I say it about my own house - however when you apply the context to a whole country whose dominant colour is black against a preferable country whose predominant colour is white, then you show your racist hand.
[Edited 1/13/18 7:13am]
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