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Reply #150 posted 11/12/17 4:07pm

deebee

avatar

maplenpg said:

deebee said:

I'd say any of the follwing are an interesting read, and easy to delve into:

The Enigma of Capital, written in the wake of the global financial crisis, in which he focuses on global capital and its need to keep flowing and expanding, and shows how fraught this is by zeroing-in on the key points at which crises develop, based on Marx's ideas about the inherently crisis-prone character of capitalism;

A Brief History of Neoliberalism, which is his analysis of how the kind of free market rule pionneered by Thatcher and Reagan, and consolidated with a 'human face' under Blair and Clinton, and how it became ubiquitous; or

Seventeen Contradictions and the End of Capitalism, where he tries to use Marx's mode of analysis (which focuses on the 'contradictions' or internal tensions in the capitalist system and how these shape the way things develop) to analyse some key problems of today and how we might address them.

Harvey himself also recommended Terry Eagleton's Why Marx Was Right when he was on Russell Brand's show a few weeks back, which is a series of very readable essays debunking the kinds of myths and criticisms levelled at old beardyface.

I go into spasms whenever I have to make a decision on anything (even Christmas shopping is a bloody nightmare!), so I've bundled them up here to let you (and anyone else who's interested) peruse at your leisure. biggrin

Wow - Deebee, this is very generous of you. Thanks so much. As Brucie used to say "You're my favourite" biggrin

biggrin You're welcome. It's nice to get a chance to discuss and pass on some stuff I think is good. Do let me know if you find any of them interesting. (I apologise in advance if you eventually find that this is like one of those situations where you politely engage someone's geeky interest in model train sets or something, and then find that, months later, they're eagerly greeting you with news of their latest signal box!) doh!

[Edited 11/12/17 16:09pm]

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #151 posted 11/12/17 4:25pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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I do believe that the left believes their different ideas are what is best. I am sure the ones that want guns banned think that will really make us safer. I think they believe that abortion is the best option. I do wich some of the discourse was a little more civil but whatever.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #152 posted 11/12/17 8:09pm

Dasein

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I do believe that the left believes their different ideas are what is best. I am sure the ones that want guns banned think that will really make us safer. I think they believe that abortion is the best option. I do wich some of the discourse was a little more civil but whatever.


Yeah, because those on the right don't believe their ideas are what's best. (/sarcasm)

There is no research which indicates having the right to bear arms "really makes us safer". But,
there is research which indicates high gun ownership makes us less safe. Yet, there are those
on the right, like yourself, who don't give a shit about what research says about gun ownership.

Sometimes, having an abortion is the best option.

What role could you play in having a more civil discourse with those you disagree with?

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Reply #153 posted 11/13/17 5:50am

OnlyNDaUsa

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Dasein said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I do believe that the left believes their different ideas are what is best. I am sure the ones that want guns banned think that will really make us safer. I think they believe that abortion is the best option. I do wich some of the discourse was a little more civil but whatever.


Yeah, because those on the right don't believe their ideas are what's best. (/sarcasm)

There is no research which indicates having the right to bear arms "really makes us safer". But,
there is research which indicates high gun ownership makes us less safe. Yet, there are those
on the right, like yourself, who don't give a shit about what research says about gun ownership.

Sometimes, having an abortion is the best option.

What role could you play in having a more civil discourse with those you disagree with?

it is interesting how you in one breath insult me and then ask me how I can be more civil....

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #154 posted 11/13/17 6:27am

Dasein

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Dasein said:


Yeah, because those on the right don't believe their ideas are what's best. (/sarcasm)

There is no research which indicates having the right to bear arms "really makes us safer". But,
there is research which indicates high gun ownership makes us less safe. Yet, there are those
on the right, like yourself, who don't give a shit about what research says about gun ownership.

Sometimes, having an abortion is the best option.

What role could you play in having a more civil discourse with those you disagree with?

it is interesting how you in one breath insult me and then ask me how I can be more civil....


Where's the insult? And, if I did insult you, it does not follow for my post to make any sense
or to be consistent that I too must conduct myself to your standards of civility. Yet, I didn't
ask you to be more civil; I asked you what role could you play in order to achieve more civil
discourse with those you disagree with.

But, the fact of the matter is that you don't care about what research says about gun ownership
because I have posted studies indicating that guns do not make us safer: they make society more
dangerous; that the high number of guns in the country has some correlation to the high numbers
of gun violence and gun related deaths. But, you persist with the unfounded claim that guns do
make us safer. To purposefully ignore research so that you can maintain your preferred world-
view (deaths related to gun violence is the price we pay for having the basic right to bear arms)
is prejudiced.

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Reply #155 posted 11/13/17 6:34am

OnlyNDaUsa

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Dasein said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

it is interesting how you in one breath insult me and then ask me how I can be more civil....


Where's the insult? And, if I did insult you, it does not follow for my post to make any sense
or to be consistent that I too must conduct myself to your standards of civility. Yet, I didn't
ask you to be more civil; I asked you what role could you play in order to achieve more civil
discourse with those you disagree with.

But, the fact of the matter is that you don't care about what research says about gun ownership
because I have posted studies indicating that guns do not make us safer: they make society more
dangerous; that the high number of guns in the country has some correlation to the high numbers
of gun violence and gun related deaths. But, you persist with the unfounded claim that guns do
make us safer. To purposefully ignore research so that you can maintain your preferred world-
view (deaths related to gun violence is the price we pay for having the basic right to bear arms)
is prejudiced.

saying I do not care and saying I am prejudiced that I ignore facts is an insult. I do not ignore them... I do care... I just happen to see that rights are important. All rights, not just the ones that are comfortable or convenient.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #156 posted 11/13/17 7:59am

2freaky4church
1

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You certainly do not care. Ignorance is a danger and a sin.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #157 posted 11/13/17 8:27am

jjhunsecker

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

Dasein said:


Where's the insult? And, if I did insult you, it does not follow for my post to make any sense
or to be consistent that I too must conduct myself to your standards of civility. Yet, I didn't
ask you to be more civil; I asked you what role could you play in order to achieve more civil
discourse with those you disagree with.

But, the fact of the matter is that you don't care about what research says about gun ownership
because I have posted studies indicating that guns do not make us safer: they make society more
dangerous; that the high number of guns in the country has some correlation to the high numbers
of gun violence and gun related deaths. But, you persist with the unfounded claim that guns do
make us safer. To purposefully ignore research so that you can maintain your preferred world-
view (deaths related to gun violence is the price we pay for having the basic right to bear arms)
is prejudiced.

saying I do not care and saying I am prejudiced that I ignore facts is an insult. I do not ignore them... I do care... I just happen to see that rights are important. All rights, not just the ones that are comfortable or convenient.

To quote the Paul Simon lyric : "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"...

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Reply #158 posted 11/13/17 8:45am

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

You certainly do not care. Ignorance is a danger and a sin.

there is a difference between not caring and caring but still making a different choice

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #159 posted 11/13/17 8:47am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

saying I do not care and saying I am prejudiced that I ignore facts is an insult. I do not ignore them... I do care... I just happen to see that rights are important. All rights, not just the ones that are comfortable or convenient.

To quote the Paul Simon lyric : "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"...

i read what was said and it was meant to be an insult....not that I was... Dasein is funny in how he? She? thinks she or he is getting me... i am having fun with it... it is really cute

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #160 posted 11/13/17 9:15am

gimmesomehornz

Government is not about "helping" it's about control. Govern = control, ment = mind.

This machine needs people to need it. It needs victims to run to it for help and handover themselves in a Faustian bid.

" Most people don't want to talk about politics and religion. They say, 'Let's talk about something else.' "
~PrinceRogersNelson
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Reply #161 posted 11/13/17 10:14am

Dasein

OnlyNDaUsa said:

jjhunsecker said:

To quote the Paul Simon lyric : "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"...

i read what was said and it was meant to be an insult....not that I was... Dasein is funny in how he? She? thinks she or he is getting me... i am having fun with it... it is really cute


When getting its ass handed to it in a debate, the wounded ego must then resort to framing
his/her opponent as being emotional while depicting its own involvement as now being insoci-
ant so as to save face because being perceived as too serious somehow weakens your argu-
ment. But, what is more serious than the obvious moral and public health crisis facing this
country due to its gun worship? Not once have I seen you express any outrage over this
crisis and not once have I seen any critical self-reflection from you in regards to re-evaluating
your ethics here other than to actually double down on them.

I'm insulted by your horribly constructed arguments and your morally reprehensible gun ethics
and your insistence upon basing your continued adherence to this killing ethic because you fancy
it as championing "rights" above anything else; which is an bass-ackwards argument in and of
itself. And, I'm insulted by shallow US citizens who frame this crisis as a price we pay for having
the right to bear arms. If you're insulted by all of this, you earned it.

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Reply #162 posted 11/13/17 10:18am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Dasein said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

i read what was said and it was meant to be an insult....not that I was... Dasein is funny in how he? She? thinks she or he is getting me... i am having fun with it... it is really cute


When getting its ass handed to it in a debate, the wounded ego must then resort to framing
his/her opponent as being emotional while depicting its own involvement as now being insoci-
ant so as to save face because being perceived as too serious somehow weakens your argu-
ment. But, what is more serious than the obvious moral and public health crisis facing this
country due to its gun worship? Not once have I seen you express any outrage over this
crisis and not once have I seen any critical self-reflection from you in regards to re-evaluating
your ethics here other than to actually double down on them.

I'm insulted by your horribly constructed arguments and your morally reprehensible gun ethics
and your insistence upon basing your continued adherence to this killing ethic because you fancy
it as championing "rights" above anything else; which is an bass-ackwards argument in and of
itself. And, I'm insulted by shallow US citizens who frame this crisis as a price we pay for having
the right to bear arms. If you're insulted by all of this, you earned it.

so you do not agree?

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #163 posted 11/13/17 10:31am

Silvertongue7

gimmesomehornz said:

Government is not about "helping" it's about control. Govern = control, ment = mind.

This machine needs people to need it. It needs victims to run to it for help and handover themselves in a Faustian bid.


I like the way you do etymology. This way ‘encouragement’ means the ‘mind that encourages’, ‘achievement’ is the ‘mind of what you achieve’ and ‘enrolment’ is ‘the enrolling of the mind’.
Alternatively you can consider that the suffix ‘-ment’ (which means ‘an action, process, or act of a specified kind‘), added to the ancient Greek kubernân (which means "to drive" or "to pilot”) means something like ‘the act of driving’.
Now, if you don’t like my alternative meaning for government you can always move to Mexico or any other Spanish speaking country, since the word ‘gobierno’ does not include the suffix ‘ment’ at all, so while the government there might still control you, at least you know that they won’t control your mind!
Or you can read this, where a lot of people who know what they are talking about explain it much more clearly: https://www.quora.com/Doe...d-the-mind
Someone's in my body, someone's in my body...
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Reply #164 posted 11/13/17 10:34am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Silvertongue7 said:

gimmesomehornz said:

Government is not about "helping" it's about control. Govern = control, ment = mind.

This machine needs people to need it. It needs victims to run to it for help and handover themselves in a Faustian bid.

I like the way you do etymology. This way ‘encouragement’ means the ‘mind that encourages’, ‘achievement’ is the ‘mind of what you achieve’ and ‘enrolment’ is ‘the enrolling of the mind’. Alternatively you can consider that the suffix ‘-ment’ (which means ‘an action, process, or act of a specified kind‘), added to the ancient Greek kubernân (which means "to drive" or "to pilot”) means something like ‘the act of driving’. Now, if you don’t like my alternative meaning for government you can always move to Mexico or any other Spanish speaking country, since the word ‘gobierno’ does not include the suffix ‘ment’ at all, so while the government there might still control you, at least you know that they won’t control your mind! Or you can read this, where a lot of people who know what they are talking about explain it much more clearly: https://www.quora.com/Doe...d-the-mind

and Govern means to control or limit so government means to Limit or control drive or movement

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #165 posted 11/13/17 10:37am

Silvertongue7

OnlyNDaUsa said:



Silvertongue7 said:


gimmesomehornz said:

Government is not about "helping" it's about control. Govern = control, ment = mind.

This machine needs people to need it. It needs victims to run to it for help and handover themselves in a Faustian bid.



I like the way you do etymology. This way ‘encouragement’ means the ‘mind that encourages’, ‘achievement’ is the ‘mind of what you achieve’ and ‘enrolment’ is ‘the enrolling of the mind’. Alternatively you can consider that the suffix ‘-ment’ (which means ‘an action, process, or act of a specified kind‘), added to the ancient Greek kubernân (which means "to drive" or "to pilot”) means something like ‘the act of driving’. Now, if you don’t like my alternative meaning for government you can always move to Mexico or any other Spanish speaking country, since the word ‘gobierno’ does not include the suffix ‘ment’ at all, so while the government there might still control you, at least you know that they won’t control your mind! Or you can read this, where a lot of people who know what they are talking about explain it much more clearly: https://www.quora.com/Doe...d-the-mind



and Govern means to control or limit so government means to Limit or control drive or movement


Steer rather than control.
And no mind at all. In fact you can say that the government is 100% demented.
Someone's in my body, someone's in my body...
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Reply #166 posted 11/13/17 10:38am

gimmesomehornz


Another thing government needs is division. It needs groups of people claiming they are victims of each other -- victims of everyone and anyone but government.
Government doesn't want people standing up for themselves, being responsible for themselves, helping themselves and each other. Government poses as the solution to all problems, and when we take the bait it sinks its fangs as deep as it can into us.

" Most people don't want to talk about politics and religion. They say, 'Let's talk about something else.' "
~PrinceRogersNelson
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Reply #167 posted 11/13/17 10:44am

2freaky4church
1

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The State is one thing, the Government is another. Both need to be separated.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #168 posted 11/13/17 12:40pm

gimmesomehornz

2freaky4church1 said:

The State is one thing, the Government is another. Both need to be separated. fart

Government = "the system or group of people governing a state"

State = "the territory of a government; the body politic as organized for civil rule and government"

" Most people don't want to talk about politics and religion. They say, 'Let's talk about something else.' "
~PrinceRogersNelson
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Reply #169 posted 11/13/17 12:42pm

gimmesomehornz

Muh roads, libraries, fire departments, disability assistance, etc. - any service or product government traditionally provides - can be done voluntarily through commerce or charity. Government doesn't want people to have that awareness ...hence the ideology we know as Leftism.

" Most people don't want to talk about politics and religion. They say, 'Let's talk about something else.' "
~PrinceRogersNelson
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Reply #170 posted 11/13/17 12:50pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Silvertongue7 said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

and Govern means to control or limit so government means to Limit or control drive or movement

Steer rather than control. And no mind at all. In fact you can say that the government is 100% demented.

steering is controlling

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #171 posted 11/13/17 12:53pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

gimmesomehornz said:

Muh roads, libraries, fire departments, disability assistance, etc. - any service or product government traditionally provides - can be done voluntarily through commerce or charity. Government doesn't want people to have that awareness ...hence the ideology we know as Leftism.

I do not believe we could have anywhere near as efficient roads without government control. It would mean a 20 min drive on a freeway to go to the store would take all day...



I also believe that most (basically ALL) self-described anarchist really do not mean it but they just do not want to be personally bothered or put out. They want anarchy insulated by a government... Otherwise, someone always takes over...

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #172 posted 11/13/17 5:49pm

gimmesomehornz

2freaky4church1 said:

The State is one thing, the Government is another. Both need to be separated.

Waves are one thing, the ocean is another. Both need to be separated.

" Most people don't want to talk about politics and religion. They say, 'Let's talk about something else.' "
~PrinceRogersNelson
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Reply #173 posted 11/13/17 5:57pm

gimmesomehornz

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I do not believe we could have anywhere near as efficient roads without government control....

You can believe whatever you want. I want functional roads, I'm willing to contribute, VOLUNTARILY, my income towards having that. I'm fairly certain most others would agree with me - if they were given the CHOICE.

Taxation is slavery. You don't own your home. You even don't own your own time, your life time spent generating enough income to live. You pay, or else.

I'll take dusty trails for actual freedom any day. But, it doesn't have to be that way.

" Most people don't want to talk about politics and religion. They say, 'Let's talk about something else.' "
~PrinceRogersNelson
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Reply #174 posted 11/13/17 7:48pm

13cjk13

gimmesomehornz said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I do not believe we could have anywhere near as efficient roads without government control....

You can believe whatever you want. I want functional roads, I'm willing to contribute, VOLUNTARILY, my income towards having that. I'm fairly certain most others would agree with me - if they were given the CHOICE.

Taxation is slavery. You don't own your home. You even don't own your own time, your life time spent generating enough income to live. You pay, or else.

I'll take dusty trails for actual freedom any day. But, it doesn't have to be that way.

Libertarian lunacy. Cool.

Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
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Reply #175 posted 11/14/17 2:59am

ThatWhiteDude

gimmesomehornz said:

If you're on the Left side of the political fence (liberal, progressive, leftist, socialist, Marxist, etc.), how do describe your politics? What are you for, what are you against, as a person of the Left?

I am for equality (gender, race, etc.) I am for good and fair payment, wich means that EVERYONE can pay their bills, no one should live from paycheck to paycheck. I would say that capitalism is good, if we manage to make it fair, so that everyone is at the recieving end I think that would be possible, not just a couple of people.

I am for free medical care, because this is a human right, not only for people who can pay for it.

Fair taxes and stuff like that. AND the same education standards for everbody, not only for priviledged (white) people. I think that's the most important thing, because education is the key for a better society. Minoritys don't have the same chances, so I think we should actually pave them the same way, not only when their good at sports. Most black people only get a college degree if their good at Basketball. Not to mention the outdated books in their schools.

So I'd say, summed up, I am for equality for everyone in every aspect of our society, I think that's the main goal.

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
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Reply #176 posted 11/14/17 9:38am

2freaky4church
1

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It's not steering if we all socially agree on it.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #177 posted 11/14/17 9:39am

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

It's not steering if we all socially agree on it.

all?

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #178 posted 11/14/17 9:41am

2freaky4church
1

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All, since I don't see you going on tax strike.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #179 posted 11/14/17 9:45am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

All, since I don't see you going on tax strike.

what makes you say that? and I am not all... and I doubt there are many things that all people agree with...

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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