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Thread started 10/12/17 11:48am

2freaky4church
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Tim Wise: Blacks can be racist!

I've never mentioned this but Tim has said blacks can be racist but because racism is about systems of power, blacks do not have the power even if they are personally racist. The system still mainly favors whiteness.

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Reply #1 posted 10/12/17 12:03pm

OldFriends4Sal
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since 'racism' is still an ever evolving definition...

blacks do have power

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #2 posted 10/12/17 12:26pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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I have said for years that black people can not be racist. I try to not assert that they can and it can get messy but I try to say "racially bigotted" or 'racial' is quotes.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #3 posted 10/12/17 12:34pm

MoBettaBliss

of course they can... anyone can

to say otherwise is utter nonsense

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Reply #4 posted 10/12/17 12:35pm

MoBettaBliss

OldFriends4Sale said:

since 'racism' is still an ever evolving definition...



no, it's not... it's pretty simple really

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Reply #5 posted 10/12/17 12:38pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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MoBettaBliss said:

of course they can... anyone can

to say otherwise is utter nonsense

the word's definition means that black people can not be racist. It requires power and a history of institutional race-based discrimination. So in the cases where a person of color has power and can discriminate against a white person that is an exception and still lacks the historical aspect.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #6 posted 10/12/17 12:42pm

OldFriends4Sal
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MoBettaBliss said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

since 'racism' is still an ever evolving definition...



no, it's not... it's pretty simple really

I had to say that, because the arguement tends to go in the opposite direction, and people need to understand that ideals of race and it's isms have changed as mankind changes.

Black people who used to be Colored and before that Negro in America are no long people with no political social power.

And racism can be exacted over others whether it is in the arena of sexual identity, religious, under/sub cultures: music industry / musical genre cultures and government

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #7 posted 10/12/17 12:45pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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OldFriends4Sale said:

MoBettaBliss said:



no, it's not... it's pretty simple really

I had to say that, because the arguement tends to go in the opposite direction, and people need to understand that ideals of race and it's isms have changed as mankind changes.

Black people who used to be Colored and before that Negro in America are no long people with no political social power.

And racism can be exacted over others whether it is in the arena of sexual identity, religious, under/sub cultures: music industry / musical genre cultures and government

I would say to be guilty of any of the isms you have to belong to the group that has both the current and historical upper hand. But the -isms are not the same as discrimination or bigotry. Anyone can be guilty of bigotry but not of an -ism or -ist

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #8 posted 10/12/17 2:56pm

djThunderfunk

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

MoBettaBliss said:

of course they can... anyone can

to say otherwise is utter nonsense

the word's definition means that black people can not be racist. It requires power and a history of institutional race-based discrimination. So in the cases where a person of color has power and can discriminate against a white person that is an exception and still lacks the historical aspect.


New, revised definitions on the internet include that nonsense. In my dictionary (Websters II, 1984, an actual BOOK), the definition is:

1. The beiief that some races are inherently superior to others.
2. Discrimination based on race.

Of course anyone can be a racist, anyone can be a bigot, and these days racial discrimination can come from any race since people of color do hold positions of power in our society. Yes, I realize that there are still MORE white people in positions of power than other races and therefore MORE instances of discrimination from white to non-white, just sayin', it does exist.




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4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #9 posted 10/12/17 3:05pm

EmmaMcG

OnlyNDaUsa said:



MoBettaBliss said:


of course they can... anyone can

to say otherwise is utter nonsense





the word's definition means that black people can not be racist. It requires power and a history of institutional race-based discrimination. So in the cases where a person of color has power and can discriminate against a white person that is an exception and still lacks the historical aspect.



The dictionary definition of racist is "someone who shows discrimination or prejudice against people of other races or who believes that a particular race is superior to another". It doesn't say anything about a history of power. Going by the actual definition of racism, yes, black people are no different to whites or Asians or anybody else and they CAN be racist.

I'd say that historical context makes racism by whites against blacks a much more serious crime than vice versa because, speaking for myself, I wouldn't really take offence to a black or Asian person calling me names because of my ethnicity and yet, I can completely understand why a black person would be offended by a white person calling them names based on their race. That's where history plays its part. But whether offense is taken or not, racism can come from ALL races.
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Reply #10 posted 10/12/17 3:24pm

gimmesomehornz

2freaky4church1 said:

I've never mentioned this but Tim has said blacks can be racist ...

Where did this term "racist" come from?

On its face it should mean someone or some policy that is concerned with race or a particular race.

But we tend to refer it to mean one or a combination of things:

Dating preference

Prejudice

Bigotry

Hatred

Discrimination

Segregation

Ethnic cleansing

Genocide

So if you're called "racist" it could mean you just prefer to date a member of a certain race or you're all out genocidal... or both and/or somewhere in between. If we already have the 8 above mentioned words then why do we need this ambiguous, damning term "racist"?

but because racism is about systems of power, blacks do not have the power even if they are personally racist. The system still mainly favors whiteness.

Where is this "system" and who runs and enforces it in the U.S.? Show me the written laws. If such code actually exists then it must be ended by all means ASAP.

It's okay to be white.
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Reply #11 posted 10/12/17 3:52pm

gimmesomehornz

EmmaMcG said:

... I can completely understand why a black person would be offended by a white person calling them names based on their race. That's where history plays its part.

People of just about all races have experienced hatred and discrimination for their race in the past. What makes blacks so special and whites so uniquely evil in the present day?

But whether offense is taken or not, racism can come from ALL races.

"Sticks and stones...." If you're proud of yourself and your race then what weight does someone else's negative opinion really carry for you?

It's okay to be white.
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Reply #12 posted 10/12/17 4:23pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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EmmaMcG said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

the word's definition means that black people can not be racist. It requires power and a history of institutional race-based discrimination. So in the cases where a person of color has power and can discriminate against a white person that is an exception and still lacks the historical aspect.

The dictionary definition of racist is "someone who shows discrimination or prejudice against people of other races or who believes that a particular race is superior to another". It doesn't say anything about a history of power. Going by the actual definition of racism, yes, black people are no different to whites or Asians or anybody else and they CAN be racist. I'd say that historical context makes racism by whites against blacks a much more serious crime than vice versa because, speaking for myself, I wouldn't really take offence to a black or Asian person calling me names because of my ethnicity and yet, I can completely understand why a black person would be offended by a white person calling them names based on their race. That's where history plays its part. But whether offense is taken or not, racism can come from ALL races.

the fact that you used a dictionary tells me you are stretching,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UcxU8PtzRs

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #13 posted 10/12/17 4:36pm

MoBettaBliss

OnlyNDaUsa said:

MoBettaBliss said:

of course they can... anyone can

to say otherwise is utter nonsense

the word's definition means that black people can not be racist.



no... it doesn't

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Reply #14 posted 10/12/17 6:45pm

free2bFreeda2

2freaky4church1 said:

Tim Wise: Blacks can be racist!

so can:
Japanese
Australians
Irish
Jamaicans
Mexicans
Chinese
Whites
Italians
Filipinos
Guatemalans
Indigenous Americans
Africans
Koreans
Eskimos
and etc..
🔊 every race can be racist.
[Edited 10/12/17 19:11pm]
Noah Trevor said. "you were an accident. there was a hole in the electoral system, & we're just trying to make this work, "Donald." 😶
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Reply #15 posted 10/13/17 1:50am

EmmaMcG

OnlyNDaUsa said:



EmmaMcG said:


OnlyNDaUsa said:




the word's definition means that black people can not be racist. It requires power and a history of institutional race-based discrimination. So in the cases where a person of color has power and can discriminate against a white person that is an exception and still lacks the historical aspect.



The dictionary definition of racist is "someone who shows discrimination or prejudice against people of other races or who believes that a particular race is superior to another". It doesn't say anything about a history of power. Going by the actual definition of racism, yes, black people are no different to whites or Asians or anybody else and they CAN be racist. I'd say that historical context makes racism by whites against blacks a much more serious crime than vice versa because, speaking for myself, I wouldn't really take offence to a black or Asian person calling me names because of my ethnicity and yet, I can completely understand why a black person would be offended by a white person calling them names based on their race. That's where history plays its part. But whether offense is taken or not, racism can come from ALL races.


the fact that you used a dictionary tells me you are stretching,




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UcxU8PtzRs



What? The fact that you don't know the actual definition of something you claimed to be able to define means that you don't know what you're talking about.
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Reply #16 posted 10/13/17 1:57am

EmmaMcG

gimmesomehornz said:



EmmaMcG said:



... I can completely understand why a black person would be offended by a white person calling them names based on their race. That's where history plays its part.


People of just about all races have experienced hatred and discrimination for their race in the past. What makes blacks so special and whites so uniquely evil in the present day?




But whether offense is taken or not, racism can come from ALL races.




"Sticks and stones...." If you're proud of yourself and your race then what weight does someone else's negative opinion really carry for you?



Yeah, thats exactly my point. Anybody can harbour racist beliefs or thoughts.

And there's nothing that makes whites uniquely evil, it's just that, as a white woman, I wouldn't care if a black person referred to me in a derogatory way because of my skin colour. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. But if a black person was called the n word or something by a white person, I could understand why he would take offence to it because in recent history, blacks were treated as less than human by a lot of white people, particularly in America.
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Reply #17 posted 10/13/17 1:59am

jaawwnn

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Harry Belafonte thinks it as well, he talks about it a bit in his autobio. I believe it's not possible since it's a power structure rather than a personal thing BUT I take his point, black people can discriminate purely based on skin colour, its just semantics at a certain level. He's still a hero of mine.
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Reply #18 posted 10/13/17 3:02am

Chancellor

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jaawwnn said:

Harry Belafonte thinks it as well, he talks about it a bit in his autobio. I believe it's not possible since it's a power structure rather than a personal thing BUT I take his point, black people can discriminate purely based on skin colour, its just semantics at a certain level. He's still a hero of mine.

Mr. Belafonte is an Activist/Entertainer/Icon but lawd knows he talks like a Transformer..

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Reply #19 posted 10/13/17 4:47am

hausofmoi7

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The difference between a racist and a bigot?
Oppression.



A bigot can not impose racism without a cultural and societal majority.


Watch your words.



.
[Edited 10/13/17 4:51am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #20 posted 10/13/17 5:10am

OldFriends4Sal
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hausofmoi7 said:

The difference between a racist and a bigot? Oppression. A bigot can not impose racism without a cultural and societal majority. Watch your words. . [Edited 10/13/17 4:51am]

Yep, and that is why blacks also can be racist.

.

Africans can be racists

.

church/NOI/religious leaders can be racist

company owners/label owners/film directors can be racist

.

Jimmy John from trailpark way cannot be racist -he has no power despite his 'race'

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #21 posted 10/13/17 5:15am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I had to say that, because the arguement tends to go in the opposite direction, and people need to understand that ideals of race and it's isms have changed as mankind changes.

Black people who used to be Colored and before that Negro in America are no long people with no political social power.

And racism can be exacted over others whether it is in the arena of sexual identity, religious, under/sub cultures: music industry / musical genre cultures and government

I would say to be guilty of any of the isms you have to belong to the group that has both the current and historical upper hand. But the -isms are not the same as discrimination or bigotry. Anyone can be guilty of bigotry but not of an -ism or -ist

I don't agree. Oppression based on race or any other is being an 'racist'

Sexism... A black man can be guilty of it towards women/black women

A lot of Black Americans are still anti-gay rights, they have voting power.
Many are a part of religious structures that are anti-gay...that is power

Black governors, mayors, commissioners, business owners etc that is power to discriminate based on race if they choose. That is racism.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #22 posted 10/13/17 5:47am

djThunderfunk

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We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #23 posted 10/13/17 5:52am

hausofmoi7

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OldFriends4Sale said:



hausofmoi7 said:


The difference between a racist and a bigot? Oppression. A bigot can not impose racism without a cultural and societal majority. Watch your words. . [Edited 10/13/17 4:51am]


Yep, and that is why blacks also can be racist.



In a western white supremacist context, that claim is almost impossible to justify
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #24 posted 10/13/17 5:56am

hausofmoi7

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djThunderfunk said:


I love Joe Rogan.
But he is wrong here.
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #25 posted 10/13/17 6:02am

djThunderfunk

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hausofmoi7 said:

I love Joe Rogan. But he is wrong here.


How so?

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #26 posted 10/13/17 6:02am

OnlyNDaUsa

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OldFriends4Sale said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I would say to be guilty of any of the isms you have to belong to the group that has both the current and historical upper hand. But the -isms are not the same as discrimination or bigotry. Anyone can be guilty of bigotry but not of an -ism or -ist

I don't agree. Oppression based on race or any other is being an 'racist'

Sexism... A black man can be guilty of it towards women/black women

A lot of Black Americans are still anti-gay rights, they have voting power.
Many are a part of religious structures that are anti-gay...that is power

Black governors, mayors, commissioners, business owners etc that is power to discriminate based on race if they choose. That is racism.

A black man can be sexist against a white woman because he is a man. A straight black man can be discriminated in the same way as the -isms because he is straight.


But a woman (even on in power) can not really be sexist against a man because she lacks the history. It is about over vs under-represented classes in society.

But based on the terms original meaning a black man cannot be racist (at least in the US) against a white male. The reason the term was coined was to distinguish that form of race-based discrimination.

I understand that the meaning of words can change based on usage. But in this case, it sure seems like a misuse based on a narrow worldview. The idea of "reverse racism" was made up by white men who got treated bad or passed over for a promotion as a way to excuse their lack of success and did not understand that even if it was an unfair discrimination against them that treatment was by far the exception.

It is a little like how some whine about affirmative action. When done properly is perfectly fine and not at all discriminatory. But 2 things happen: lazy people do not use it correctly and jealous people assume they were treated unfairly. (the proper use of AA is to actively seek out QUALIFIED applicants for positions. That will by its nature cause more competition and some will assume it is unfair. Also if there are 2 qualified applicants it is legal in many cases to select the black man based on his race. (that is the race is not a major factor but it can be a consideration but they can not flat out say so.)

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #27 posted 10/13/17 6:08am

uPtoWnNY

gimmesomehornz said:

2freaky4church1 said:

I've never mentioned this but Tim has said blacks can be racist ...

Where did this term "racist" come from?

On its face it should mean someone or some policy that is concerned with race or a particular race.

But we tend to refer it to mean one or a combination of things:

Dating preference

Prejudice

Bigotry

Hatred

Discrimination

Segregation

Ethnic cleansing

Genocide

So if you're called "racist" it could mean you just prefer to date a member of a certain race or you're all out genocidal... or both and/or somewhere in between. If we already have the 8 above mentioned words then why do we need this ambiguous, damning term "racist"?

but because racism is about systems of power, blacks do not have the power even if they are personally racist. The system still mainly favors whiteness.

Where is this "system" and who runs and enforces it in the U.S.? Show me the written laws. If such code actually exists then it must be ended by all means ASAP.

It's the UNWRITTEN laws, the dirty tricks companies & institutions use to fuck people of color over. Redlining, housing discrimination, racial profiling, employment agencies that put red Xs on resumes submitted by blacks...shit like that still goes on.

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Reply #28 posted 10/13/17 6:11am

hausofmoi7

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djThunderfunk said:



hausofmoi7 said:


I love Joe Rogan. But he is wrong here.


How so?


Because he speaks with good intent but without context.
That is perhaps because he or his friends and family are not subjected to the discrimination he speaks of, and that he is so dismissive of.



If not prove me wrong.





.
[Edited 10/13/17 6:18am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #29 posted 10/13/17 6:16am

djThunderfunk

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hausofmoi7 said:

djThunderfunk said:


How so?

Because he speaks with good intent but without context. He or his friends and family are not subjected to the discrimination he speaks of and is so dismissive of. If not prove me wrong. . [Edited 10/13/17 6:14am]


How is he "dismissive"?

One does not have to be subjected to discrimination to speak on it.

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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