independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Sat 21st Oct 2017 5:05am
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Politics & Religion > John Oliver demolishes Confederate monument arguments
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 1 of 2 12>
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 10/10/17 7:33am

jjhunsecker

avatar

John Oliver demolishes Confederate monument arguments

Bravo Mr. Oliver ! He cuts through all the bullshit


https://www.avclub.com/jo...1819271049

If you’ve ever wanted a one-stop video clip to send anyone on social media who starts in on that “tearing down Confederate monuments means erasing history” bullshit—like Donald Trump, to name but one—John Oliver has you covered. On Sunday’s Last Week Tonight, Oliver ran down the Confederate statue issue in ways that will have your uncle who everyone rolls their eyes at screaming “fake news” and downing another scotch come Thanksgiving. For Oliver, a British guy who’d, as he explains, like to eat in an Indian restaurant some time in his life, the idea of acknowledging rather than whitewashing (and how) your country’s sometimes shameful past is a sign of intellectual honesty and character. Unlike one rebel pigeon-toilet enthusiast shown complaining that his poor farmer ancestors should get a pass because—and this is not a joke—“slaves were really expensive.”

Still, any time the issue comes up (like in this article!), timelines and comment sections are swamped with the same conspicuously similar talking points, so Oliver debunks them in turn. For example, Oliver shows that most of the more than 700 public statues of Confederate figures in America were erected long after the Civil War ended, with the largest spikes in construction taking place, again suspiciously, during periods like Jim Crow and the civil rights movement, where whites started getting a little antsy about black people asserting themselves. Also, Oliver dismantles that whole “the Civil War wasn’t about slavery” argument by simply quoting Confederate state constitutions and official declarations that explicitly declare the preservation of slavery and the racial superiority of white people as their core principles. Oh, and then there’s the fact that many of these monuments were proposed and dedicated by actual Klansmen. Pesky thing, actual historical records. (You know, like the one where Confederate general Robert E. Lee said unequivocally that people shouldn’t put up Confederate statues.)

And as to the intellectually dishonest willful ignorance of the argument that removing Confederate statues is one of those “slippery slopes” that will lead to a horrifyingly statue-less America, Oliver proposed that drawing lines somewhere is more American than drawing them absolutely nowhere. Oliver proposed that there’s a “Hitler-Hanks Spectrum” of humanity, and that moving the demarcation point a little more toward the Hanks-ian isn’t really that hard to envision. Proving his point, Oliver went on to unveil a number of alternative statues that could more ably occupy the empty plinths of shit-canned traitorous slaveholders statuary, including escaped slave turned U.S. Congressman Robert Smalls, first black female pilot Bessie Coleman, and, representing his hometown of Charleston, South Carolina, the actual Stephen Colbert. (Oliver also proposes that all Florida statues be replaced with an alligator named Herman flipping the bird, which might be a tougher sell. Or not.) So copy, paste, and infuriate some of your most ignorant trolls today!



 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 10/10/17 9:20am

poppys

heart it! Thanks for posting. So much good stuff. He really laid it out well. Robert E Lee thought bubble... lol

Kick the old-school joints. For the true funk soldiers.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 10/10/17 9:27am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

the problem with the "it is not a slippery sloop" is we are already slipping. Thomas Jefferson and Sam Huston are on the block now.

With Love, Honor & Respect for all of you...no matter how I argue or disagree my heart is full of love for you all...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 10/10/17 9:32am

Dasein

OnlyNDaUsa said:

......Thomas Jefferson and Sam Huston are on the block now.



. . . and your point is what? That there are some racist white men who we should protect from
any condemnation simply because their contributions to the nation-building enterprises of other
racist white men was effective?

Why should we kowtow to your idolatry?

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 10/10/17 9:49am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Dasein said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

......Thomas Jefferson and Sam Huston are on the block now.



. . . and your point is what? That there are some racist white men who we should protect from
any condemnation simply because their contributions to the nation-building enterprises of other
racist white men was effective?

Why should we kowtow to your idolatry?

why must you make up things about me?

and again who in history passes the PC test of today?

With Love, Honor & Respect for all of you...no matter how I argue or disagree my heart is full of love for you all...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 10/10/17 9:49am

poppys

I am all for a re-evaluation of public statues and monuments. Taxpayers paid for them, and now pay to maintain them. The public should have a say in what we are glorifying and supporting with our money.

This is not about art either - the "Art World" is one of the more brutal businesses when it comes to what stays and what goes. If it is about history, place them in an educational setting and explain what they were about.

There is no good need to keep them.

Kick the old-school joints. For the true funk soldiers.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 10/10/17 9:51am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

poppys said:

I am all for a re-evaluation of public statues and monuments. Taxpayers paid for them, and now pay to maintain them. The public should have a say in what we are glorifying and supporting with our money.

This is not about art either - the "Art World" is one of the more brutal businesses when it comes to what stays and what goes. If it is about history, place them in an educational setting and explain what they were about.

There is no good need to keep them.

and the money Dallas spent (not to mention the man killed in the process) to remove the Lee statue would have paid for decades of upkeep... so that is a worthless point.

With Love, Honor & Respect for all of you...no matter how I argue or disagree my heart is full of love for you all...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 10/10/17 9:52am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

or a school that spends money to change the name? that is 100% wasted money.


But as I said anyone that supports it now can not really in any sense of consistency say much when (and they will) they come and take down things you may think are okay.

With Love, Honor & Respect for all of you...no matter how I argue or disagree my heart is full of love for you all...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 10/10/17 9:53am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

and do not even lie and say I "want" these statues to be kept up...

With Love, Honor & Respect for all of you...no matter how I argue or disagree my heart is full of love for you all...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 10/10/17 9:54am

poppys

And yours is more worthless. Unless you want the statues left up and are justifying paying to maintain them.

You are in a thread where you did not view the video the OP posted. Same old stuff.

Kick the old-school joints. For the true funk soldiers.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 10/10/17 9:55am

poppys

OnlyNDaUsa said:

and do not even lie and say I "want" these statues to be kept up...

Watch the video and comment. I'm not doing this with you.

Kick the old-school joints. For the true funk soldiers.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 10/10/17 9:58am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

poppys said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

and do not even lie and say I "want" these statues to be kept up...

Watch the video and comment. I'm not doing this with you.

i might later and you are not doing what? oh you mean you are not going to make up and accused me of saying things that I never said? C-O-O-Ellll

With Love, Honor & Respect for all of you...no matter how I argue or disagree my heart is full of love for you all...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 10/10/17 10:02am

RodeoSchro

avatar

I graduated from Robert E. Lee High School. Even though Lee accomplished a great many things in his life, when faced with the choice of supporting the USA or not, he chose "not". He led an army that killed tens of thousands of American soldiers. I don't see how that makes him anything but a traitor to his country.

They should change the name of my high school to something else.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 10/10/17 10:05am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Tiki torches again, nobody cared. Best way to deal with dem.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 10/10/17 10:07am

Dasein

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Dasein said:



. . . and your point is what? That there are some racist white men who we should protect from
any condemnation simply because their contributions to the nation-building enterprises of other
racist white men was effective?

Why should we kowtow to your idolatry?

why must you make up things about me?

and again who in history passes the PC test of today?


Because implicit in your comments is the idea that we can (sadly?) go too far with removing
monuments dedicated to certain irreproachable racists like Thomas Jefferson. And, asking me
"who in history passes the PC test of today" implies that all white men in history were racist at
some point. But, not all white men in history were racist, so stop asking that silly question
about who was expressing 21st century racial equality sentiments prior to said century for I'm
sure there are plenty of white men in the past who weren't writing about liberty and justice for
all whilst owning slaves.

So, I'll ask you again: what's your point about Thomas Jefferson and Sam Houston?

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 10/10/17 10:19am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Dasein said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

why must you make up things about me?

and again who in history passes the PC test of today?


Because implicit in your comments is the idea that we can (sadly?) go too far with removing
monuments dedicated to certain irreproachable racists like Thomas Jefferson. And, asking me
"who in history passes the PC test of today" implies that all white men in history were racist at
some point. But, not all white men in history were racist, so stop asking that silly question
about who was expressing 21st century racial equality sentiments prior to said century for I'm
sure there are plenty of white men in the past who weren't writing about liberty and justice for
all whilst owning slaves.

So, I'll ask you again: what's your point about Thomas Jefferson and Sam Houston?

not just racism but any form of bigotry... very few if any democrats through the 60s would make the cut....

With Love, Honor & Respect for all of you...no matter how I argue or disagree my heart is full of love for you all...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 10/10/17 10:27am

Dasein

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Dasein said:


Because implicit in your comments is the idea that we can (sadly?) go too far with removing
monuments dedicated to certain irreproachable racists like Thomas Jefferson. And, asking me
"who in history passes the PC test of today" implies that all white men in history were racist at
some point. But, not all white men in history were racist, so stop asking that silly question
about who was expressing 21st century racial equality sentiments prior to said century for I'm
sure there are plenty of white men in the past who weren't writing about liberty and justice for
all whilst owning slaves.

So, I'll ask you again: what's your point about Thomas Jefferson and Sam Houston?

not just racism but any form of bigotry... very few if any democrats through the 60s would make the cut....


I asked you a direct question:

What is your point in bringing up Thomas Jefferson and Sam Houston?


 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 10/10/17 10:29am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Dasein said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

not just racism but any form of bigotry... very few if any democrats through the 60s would make the cut....


I asked you a direct question:

What is your point in bringing up Thomas Jefferson and Sam Houston?


as an example of how we are in fact already sliding down the sloop

With Love, Honor & Respect for all of you...no matter how I argue or disagree my heart is full of love for you all...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 10/10/17 10:30am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

hell removing Lee's statue is sliding as it started with a flag... but as i said if one goes then any of them can be removed.

With Love, Honor & Respect for all of you...no matter how I argue or disagree my heart is full of love for you all...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 10/10/17 10:32am

Dasein

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Dasein said:


I asked you a direct question:

What is your point in bringing up Thomas Jefferson and Sam Houston?


as an example of how we are in fact already sliding down the sloop


And, what is it about Thomas Jefferson and Sam Houston that is an indication or proof that
"we are in fact already sliding down the sloop?"

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 10/10/17 10:33am

Dasein

OnlyNDaUsa said:

... but as i said if one goes then any of them can be removed.


Is there a problem with this?

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 10/10/17 11:20am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Dasein said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

... but as i said if one goes then any of them can be removed.


Is there a problem with this?

mlk and malcom X JFK

With Love, Honor & Respect for all of you...no matter how I argue or disagree my heart is full of love for you all...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 10/10/17 11:29am

RodeoSchro

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

hell removing Lee's statue is sliding as it started with a flag... but as i said if one goes then any of them can be removed.



Read any Confederate state's Declaration of Causes and you'll see the "slippery slope" does not extend to Union figures.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 10/10/17 11:49am

Dasein

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Dasein said:


Is there a problem with this?

mlk and malcom X JFK


With this inane reply and your silence regarding my other question, can you please cut the pretense?
For you are who I think you are: a white dude who holds there are some racist white men, like Thom-
as Jefferson and Sam Houston, who are irreproachable due to their contributive efforts with establish-
ing the USA, and therefore, their monuments ought to remain intact. We are often this devoted to
our idols.

So, stop asking me stupid and disingenuous questions about why I must make up things about you.


[Edited 10/12/17 4:35am]

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 10/10/17 12:12pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

poppys said:

And yours is more worthless. Unless you want the statues left up and are justifying paying to maintain them.

You are in a thread where you did not view the video the OP posted. Same old stuff.



Why actually read or watch something before bloviating an opinion on it ? eek
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 10/10/17 12:15pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

or a school that spends money to change the name? that is 100% wasted money.


But as I said anyone that supports it now can not really in any sense of consistency say much when (and they will) they come and take down things you may think are okay.



If they want to take down things I thought was "OK", at the very least I would listen to what they had to say and try to understand their perspective on the matter.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 10/10/17 12:15pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

or a school that spends money to change the name? that is 100% wasted money.


But as I said anyone that supports it now can not really in any sense of consistency say much when (and they will) they come and take down things you may think are okay.

If they want to take down things I thought was "OK", at the very least I would listen to what they had to say and try to understand their perspective on the matter.

and would you be okay if they still did remove them?

With Love, Honor & Respect for all of you...no matter how I argue or disagree my heart is full of love for you all...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 10/10/17 12:17pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

and I really do not care if they stay or go but I want my warning on record that if you cheer these then keep it shut when (not IF, they will) they do,

With Love, Honor & Respect for all of you...no matter how I argue or disagree my heart is full of love for you all...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 10/10/17 12:21pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:



jjhunsecker said:


OnlyNDaUsa said:

or a school that spends money to change the name? that is 100% wasted money.


But as I said anyone that supports it now can not really in any sense of consistency say much when (and they will) they come and take down things you may think are okay.



If they want to take down things I thought was "OK", at the very least I would listen to what they had to say and try to understand their perspective on the matter.



and would you be okay if they still did remove them?



I would listen to what they say and what facts they present, and make an evaluation from there. They may have legitimate reasons for their views that I was not aware of.

Also, these monuments were not destroyed. Most if not all will end up in a museum, where they can be placed in historical context.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #29 posted 10/10/17 12:27pm

UncleJam

avatar

How people are making a connection between removing CONFEDREATE monuments and removing a statue of say George Washington...absolutely ridiculous. Sure, Washington owned slaves, so did a whole lot of other folks...it was the way things were. Removing that statue is trying to erase history. Removing a statue or monument or flag that is representing TRAITORS to the USA is a completely different scenario, the two have nothing to do with each other. Washington and Jefferson and whoever else helped BUILD this nation. The Confederates tried to destroy the nation. Why is this a discussion? We're smarter than that, arent we? Never mind...

Make it so, Number One...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 1 of 2 12>
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Politics & Religion > John Oliver demolishes Confederate monument arguments