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Thread started 08/01/17 10:43am

TrivialPursuit

Comparing Racism to Being Gay

My cousin died this morning from an overdose. He was 42. His father, my guncle, was 42 when he died 25 years ago from a brain tumor.

I called my dad today to tell him about my cousin (dad and my cousin's mom are siblings, and to note my cousin's parents are both gay - my aunt and uncle divorced, realized they were gay, and both found long-term same sex relationships). I told my dad to call my brother because he won't respond to anyone else. My brother is a bigot and a racist (and my two nephews, his boys, are half Cambodian). How he can be racist when he lives in southern California with two boys that look Mexican (the implication being anyone could attack them for being Mexican, and tell them to go back to their own country, etc etc) is beyond me.

When I brought up the racist thing to dad, this was the gist of the conversation.

Dad: Remember when everyone was on your case about your lifestyle?

Me: What lifestyle is that?

Dad: Your homosexual lifestyle.

Me: (pausing) Ooookay?

Dad: It's the same thing. They're both oddball things. That's the only word I can think of for it.

Me: So being gay is oddball?

Dad: Well, it's not normal.

Me: With all due respect, that's the biggest bunch of horseshit I've ever heard.

Dad: I didn't expect you to understand it.

Me: Just call him and tell him about (our cousin). (emphasizing) Tell him I said hi.

I thought I'd heard it all, but when my dad compared my brother being a bigot, and damn near apologizing for it, to me being gay blew my mind.

I hate the word "lifestyle". You know what my lifestyle is today? You know what this homosexual is doing? Sitting in his shorts, in a hot house, listening to jackhammers, trying to learn about creating an eBook from my Word manuscript so I can publish my book in the fall, and trying to figure out lunch. I mean, maybe if I move all the dildos and Spunk™ lube out of the way, I can find the tuna salad and rye bread.

In closing, I said, "So call him because he doesn't respond to me."

"He always responds to me," my dad replied.

Birds of a feather. My friend said, "with all due respect, your dad is as racist as your brother".

I've only been awake two hours at this point. I might need to go crawl back under the covers for the rest of the day.

I just had to get that out a little bit. Thanks for reading. I'm not looking for sympathy or anything. Just a head scratcher moment with the "lifestyle" and "oddball" comment.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
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Reply #1 posted 08/01/17 11:02am

EmmaMcG

I'm sorry for your loss. 42 must be a funny age because my mum was 42 when she died a couple of years ago. Well, not "funny", but you know what I mean. Either way, I'm sorry for your loss.

I'm guessing your dad is an older man, probably of a different generation? Of course it doesn't excuse him from holding unnatural views of your "lifestyle" but it might let you in to his way of thinking. He probably doesn't mean you any harm with his comments, but some people just find it difficult when dealing with people they perceive to be "different". And some older people do perceive gay people, especially gay men, to be different. So, your dad has obviously said something quite stupid in comparing gayness to racism but he probably didn't mean any offence. Your friend suggested that your dad was as racist as your brother. I don't know your dad so I couldn't offer any input on that one way or the other, but I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Reply #2 posted 08/01/17 12:31pm

TrivialPursuit

EmmaMcG said:

I'm sorry for your loss. 42 must be a funny age because my mum was 42 when she died a couple of years ago. Well, not "funny", but you know what I mean. Either way, I'm sorry for your loss. I'm guessing your dad is an older man, probably of a different generation? Of course it doesn't excuse him from holding unnatural views of your "lifestyle" but it might let you in to his way of thinking. He probably doesn't mean you any harm with his comments, but some people just find it difficult when dealing with people they perceive to be "different". And some older people do perceive gay people, especially gay men, to be different. So, your dad has obviously said something quite stupid in comparing gayness to racism but he probably didn't mean any offence.
Your friend suggested that your dad was as racist as your brother. I don't know your dad so I couldn't offer any input on that one way or the other, but I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.


I don't always believe in giving the benefit of the doubt. It gives people the leeway to be more of an asshole. My dad thinks white Christians are the highest level of human development. In 1990, he came to my apartment and asked me, "Are you a faggot?" He's also accused me of being in love with my aunt, called my mom because he wanted to have me put in a mental hospital (she basically told him he needed to be in one), and worshiping Satan. So all that said, his views are quite clear. His comments are always meant to demean someone, I believe.

The rub is that he lumps LGBTQ with pedophiles and the like. The thing is, he's a convicted child molester. I know this because I called the cops on him for molesting my stepbrother for a decade. I feel like Mary in that UTCM jock strap scene, pacing, "How oddball is it to be a convicted child molester? I should've said that."

I suppose I'm just dumbfounded on how those two things, even in his 73-year-old head, relate to each other. And how juvenile and dismissive calling a racist and a gay person "oddball(s)". He's not gonna like the book I'm about to publish, cuz all that shit and more is in it. smile

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
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Reply #3 posted 08/01/17 2:58pm

EmmaMcG

I don't want to cause any unnecessary offense, but it does sound like your dad might has his own issues. Like, he doesn't sound like the kind of man who's fully there, mentally speaking. I know you don't need (or want) my advice but if I were in your position, I'd be inclined to just ignore his and your brother's insults and get on with living my life.
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Reply #4 posted 08/01/17 3:38pm

Mumio

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Sending you my sympathy for your loss.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio… they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end.
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Reply #5 posted 08/01/17 4:33pm

TrivialPursuit

EmmaMcG said:

I don't want to cause any unnecessary offense, but it does sound like your dad might has his own issues. Like, he doesn't sound like the kind of man who's fully there, mentally speaking. I know you don't need (or want) my advice but if I were in your position, I'd be inclined to just ignore his and your brother's insults and get on with living my life.


Yea, their mental issue is being white A.F.

I live 1500 miles away from dad and my brother is on the west coast. I mostly do ignore it. There are just times it comes blowing back in my face.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
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Reply #6 posted 08/01/17 8:03pm

luv4u

Moderator

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moderator

My condolences rose

Edmonton, AB - canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #7 posted 08/01/17 8:37pm

mjscarousal

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Im very sorry for your loss and your father sounds very ignorant. My parents are the same way. They are very religious and very homophobic (I am very spiritual as well but I am not homophobic). Its kinda what Emma says, they come from a different generation. However, I agree with you that this shouldn't be a excuse to be disrespectful and every time one of my friends or family members makes a prejudice or homophobic slur/stereotype, I always point out how this reinforces stereotypes against homosexuals and is prejudice. I think in the future, you should challenge your father on those comments and tell him that these comments could be viewed as disrespectful and how they make you feel.

Unfornately, these individuals are "stuck" in their ways of thinking. However, it always amazes me how family members treat other family members that they perceived as different or against their ideals. Some are willing to cut ties or to hurt the ones they love just because they have different beliefs as they do. At the end of the day, if your family loves you, they will respect you regardless of your sexual orientation or beliefs. I think its best you move on with your life and just stick to visiting during holidays. I agree with you, being homosexual and being racist have nothing to do with each other. In fact they are very very different. The LGBQT community is one of the most marginalize communities and continues to fight against hate crimes, discrimination, etc and so its disrespectful he would equate being homosexual as the same as acting like a racist and you had every right to be offended.

[Edited 8/1/17 20:40pm]

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #8 posted 08/02/17 7:01pm

Horsefeathers

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IMO defense of bigotry makes one a bigot. If someone feels compelled to tell me why I should try to understand someone else's racism or homophobia and cut them some slack for it, they are also in the club.

Tl;dr: I agree with your friend (mostly- I'd say bigot instead of just racist).
Murica: at least it's not Sudan.
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Reply #9 posted 08/03/17 6:59am

poppys

Wo Trivial

TrivialPursuit said:

My cousin died this morning from an overdose. He was 42. His father, my guncle, was 42 when he died 25 years ago from a brain tumor.

I called my dad today to tell him about my cousin (dad and my cousin's mom are siblings, and to note my cousin's parents are both gay - my aunt and uncle divorced, realized they were gay, and both found long-term same sex relationships). I told my dad to call my brother because he won't respond to anyone else. My brother is a bigot and a racist (and my two nephews, his boys, are half Cambodian). How he can be racist when he lives in southern California with two boys that look Mexican (the implication being anyone could attack them for being Mexican, and tell them to go back to their own country, etc etc) is beyond me.

When I brought up the racist thing to dad, this was the gist of the conversation.

Dad: Remember when everyone was on your case about your lifestyle?

Me: What lifestyle is that?

Dad: Your homosexual lifestyle.

Me: (pausing) Ooookay?

Dad: It's the same thing. They're both oddball things. That's the only word I can think of for it.

Me: So being gay is oddball?

Dad: Well, it's not normal.

Me: With all due respect, that's the biggest bunch of horseshit I've ever heard.

Dad: I didn't expect you to understand it.

Me: Just call him and tell him about (our cousin). (emphasizing) Tell him I said hi.

I thought I'd heard it all, but when my dad compared my brother being a bigot, and damn near apologizing for it, to me being gay blew my mind.

I hate the word "lifestyle". You know what my lifestyle is today? You know what this homosexual is doing? Sitting in his shorts, in a hot house, listening to jackhammers, trying to learn about creating an eBook from my Word manuscript so I can publish my book in the fall, and trying to figure out lunch. I mean, maybe if I move all the dildos and Spunk™ lube out of the way, I can find the tuna salad and rye bread.

In closing, I said, "So call him because he doesn't respond to me."

"He always responds to me," my dad replied.

Birds of a feather. My friend said, "with all due respect, your dad is as racist as your brother".

I've only been awake two hours at this point. I might need to go crawl back under the covers for the rest of the day.

I just had to get that out a little bit. Thanks for reading. I'm not looking for sympathy or anything. Just a head scratcher moment with the "lifestyle" and "oddball" comment.

Wow Trivial - that is a lot.
First things first. hug
Clearly there is not a meeting of the minds (or emotions) with your father and brother. Breaks my heart that you're the caring family member wanting to keep the communication about your cousin and others going with zero help from them.

There are some serious issues going on with Dad including denial. Not sure he is the fully formed human being that you are and still struggling to be.

Last time you posted re the fam, I wanted to say that sometimes people do come back together. I was estranged from my sister for about a decade and now we talk again. The issues are still there but we BOTH finally chose to move on. It took awhile and I never thought it would happen. Give it some time and you might have to give up for your own sanity. It's ok to do that, it will come around again.
Good luck with your book! And make me a tuna on rye please. heart

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Reply #10 posted 08/03/17 3:15pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

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Sorry to hear about your cousin. I think you handled the situation good which is the most important thing because that is all on you. Even if family members do not get aspects of you what is important is to try to keep peace which it sounds like you did you called out your dad but also just disagreed and moved on. I feel that way about family, neighbors and strangers I believe in going out of the way to keep the peace.

KNOW Jesus, KNOW peace. NO Jesus, NO peace
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Reply #11 posted 08/05/17 7:56pm

Fenwick

Hi Trivial

First things first. I'm very sorry to hear of your cousin's passing. That's horrible. I hope you and the rest of your family are doing OK.

Regarding the discussion with your dad, that's pretty heart wrenching. Comparing biology with morality. Depending on close you are with your dad, or how close you desire to be, I don't think there's much you can do my friend. It sounds like a lost cause unless you want to invest a lot of time and energy potentially banging your head against a wall. (It sounds like you already have)...

I know you said you were more or less venting. I guess just know there are plenty of us who feel your pain.... Sorry my friend.

Hugs to you.....

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Reply #12 posted 08/09/17 6:59pm

214

Stay away from your father, the farther the better.

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Reply #13 posted 08/10/17 7:52am

2freaky4church
1

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Gays here do pretty well. They are more oppressed in third world./

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
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Reply #14 posted 08/10/17 7:04pm

214

2freaky4church1 said:

Gays here do pretty well. They are more oppressed in third world./

Here in Mexico is not that bad really.

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Reply #15 posted 08/16/17 2:23pm

laurarichardso
n

TrivialPursuit said:



EmmaMcG said:



I'm sorry for your loss. 42 must be a funny age because my mum was 42 when she died a couple of years ago. Well, not "funny", but you know what I mean. Either way, I'm sorry for your loss. I'm guessing your dad is an older man, probably of a different generation? Of course it doesn't excuse him from holding unnatural views of your "lifestyle" but it might let you in to his way of thinking. He probably doesn't mean you any harm with his comments, but some people just find it difficult when dealing with people they perceive to be "different". And some older people do perceive gay people, especially gay men, to be different. So, your dad has obviously said something quite stupid in comparing gayness to racism but he probably didn't mean any offence.

Your friend suggested that your dad was as racist as your brother. I don't know your dad so I couldn't offer any input on that one way or the other, but I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.


I don't always believe in giving the benefit of the doubt. It gives people the leeway to be more of an asshole. My dad thinks white Christians are the highest level of human development. In 1990, he came to my apartment and asked me, "Are you a faggot?" He's also accused me of being in love with my aunt, called my mom because he wanted to have me put in a mental hospital (she basically told him he needed to be in one), and worshiping Satan. So all that said, his views are quite clear. His comments are always meant to demean someone, I believe.

The rub is that he lumps LGBTQ with pedophiles and the like. The thing is, he's a convicted child molester. I know this because I called the cops on him for molesting my stepbrother for a decade. I feel like Mary in that UTCM jock strap scene, pacing, "How oddball is it to be a convicted child molester? I should've said that."

I suppose I'm just dumbfounded on how those two things, even in his 73-year-old head, relate to each other. And how juvenile and dismissive calling a racist and a gay person "oddball(s)". He's not gonna like the book I'm about to publish, cuz all that shit and more is in it. smile


First sorry for your lost Second if your dad is a child molester than he is a very disturbed man and he is lashing out to transfer his behavior. I know this sounds harsh but you did not pick your family and sometimes you do not have to stick with them. Some people are toxic and need to go out of your life.
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Reply #16 posted 08/16/17 4:30pm

TrivialPursuit

laurarichardson said:

First sorry for your lost Second if your dad is a child molester than he is a very disturbed man and he is lashing out to transfer his behavior. I know this sounds harsh but you did not pick your family and sometimes you do not have to stick with them. Some people are toxic and need to go out of your life.


Thanks. I keep some folks are arm's length for particular reasons, dad's included.

I remember RuPaul talking to a queen on RuPaul's Drag Race, where the guy was left in a public park and abandoned by his mother. It was a heartbreaking tale. Ru made the note that we get to choose our family, as members of the LGBTQ community. When we're ousted or otherwise dismissed by blood relations, there is always someone else there to take up the empty space and provide love and support. In my book I'm about to release, I note often how/when I lost all trust in my father and never trusted him again. He's just a person at this point. I don't hate him, but it's disappointing to have conversations with him sometimes.

We normally talk about his ex-wife (my now-ex-stepmother of 27 years who we are out of each other's lives at this point after their divorce), the weather or sports (the latter of which I couldn't care less about). It's that generic. This conversation was surprisingly specific. It served as a reminder as to why I keep him at arm's length.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
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