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Thread started 05/21/17 10:42am

2freaky4church
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Bill Maher and Cornel West have screaming match about Hillary.

More Maher banality.

http://www.alternet.org/c...and-bernie

No, Bill, we should be forced to vote for awful Hillary. Thanks for your democratic help. He ducked that Bernie would have won. If Hillary was patriotic she would have stepped down to help Bernie win. She gave us Trump not Cornel. Or me.

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #1 posted 05/21/17 12:06pm

JabarR74

Wrong forum!

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Reply #2 posted 05/21/17 5:28pm

namepeace

In hindsight both of them are right.

Bernie would have made the better candidate.

But supporting Hillary would have at least avoided what we've got now.

We can't always get what we want in a candidate. Sometimes, as Obama says, it's chicken or fish.

Or chicken or swill.

Cornel was right earlier. The Hillary supporters failed to see her weaknesses as a candidate.

Bill was right later. The Bernie supporters pouted because they couldn't get their way.

The Democratic coalitiion got pulled apart a la 2000 all over again. And the result was even worse.


Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #3 posted 05/21/17 6:21pm

morningsong

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I wished I had of seen that episode, I saw excerpts after the fact. Saw one of my favorite people was there also, bet he didn't get a word in edgewise, unusual for him. I did want to post in the P&R section if orgers really think Mike Pence right now is the far better choice.
“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #4 posted 05/21/17 11:19pm

luv4u

Moderator

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JabarR74 said:

Wrong forum!



Moved to p&r

Edmonton, AB - canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #5 posted 05/22/17 3:50am

deebee

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For all its finger-pointing assuredness and questioning of West's conviction, Maher's tirade seems only to help reinforce a myth, which has come to be an article of the centrist liberal faith he preaches, that it was disgruntled Bernie Bros that cost Her Imperiousness the election. But, as I noted at the time, the evidence to support this claim has not been presented. In actuality, the way the stats stack up is such that if every last tree-hugging Jill Stein supporter had voted for Hillary, the election would still have gone to Trump. Where Hillary lost much-needed support was in places where the Democrat presidency had badly let down would-be voters in its base; nothing to do with leftist piety. (In his comprehensive analysis of the result, Mike Davis itemises 18 plant closures in flipped counties that occurred during the campaign season - costing around 10,000 jobs and offering workers striking evidence of the latest wave of job flight and deindustrialisation.)

And you can't have it both ways: you can't be saying that she got the popular support (nearly 3 million more votes than Trump, goes the line) and be claiming at the same time that she lost out due to a lack of support, which is tied to some mythically powerful hard-left voting bloc that doesn't even include Stein voters.

But the more pressing shortcoming here, it seems to me - and the one that make Maher's venom and getting in West's face so distasteful here - is the assumption that Hillary had something up her sleeve that would've rectified this situation. But the most I ever saw from 'Crime Bill Hill' was the floating of a proposal for bodycams on cops. Well, what is the very most bodycams give you? Video footage of any abuses committed. But even in the two cases Maher cites - most egregiously so in the Walter Scott case - we are not lacking video footage of the crimes. The problem seems to be that, even in the face of video footage, juries will still back cops regardless - protecting, one imagines, what they take to be their own interests and genuflecting to the 'thin blue line' they believe keeps them and their property safe accordingly.

It's a scandalous failure of centrist politics that is has offered no credible proposals to deal with the problem of police violence (a failure which, it seems reasonable to note, does not begin and end with the appalling racial disproportionality), and, indeed, the strategy of using repressive force as the privileged means of addressing structural social problems more generally. Holding Mary J Blige's hand and pulling a sympathetic face won't make the penal state go away. Bodycams are at best a pacifier - at worst, an insult - not a solution. I'd say Maher's righteous conceit is unwarranted here.

[Edited 5/22/17 10:07am]

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #6 posted 05/22/17 5:15am

Pokeno4Money

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deebee said:

Bodycams are at best a pacifier - at worst, an insult - not a solution.


It's an insult to have video proof of what happened? Knowing full well that video has often protected civilian suspects and helped prove them innocent?

Sounds like you're assuming the civilian suspect being recorded is always guilty. neutral

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #7 posted 05/22/17 6:38am

DiminutiveRock
er

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namepeace said:

In hindsight both of them are right.

Bernie would have made the better candidate.

But supporting Hillary would have at least avoided what we've got now.

We can't always get what we want in a candidate. Sometimes, as Obama says, it's chicken or fish.

Or chicken or swill.

Cornel was right earlier. The Hillary supporters failed to see her weaknesses as a candidate.

Bill was right later. The Bernie supporters pouted because they couldn't get their way.

The Democratic coalitiion got pulled apart a la 2000 all over again. And the result was even worse.



Agree with your assessment.


Chicken or swill lol

"When you have people who don't know about science standing in denial of it and rising to power - that is a recipe for the complete dismantling of our informed democracy" - Neil de Grasse Tyson
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Reply #8 posted 05/22/17 7:52am

2freaky4church
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Proud Bernie Bro. Deebee, they did a poll, 73 percent of blacks like Bernie. lol

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #9 posted 05/22/17 8:17am

jjhunsecker

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namepeace said:

In hindsight both of them are right.

Bernie would have made the better candidate.

But supporting Hillary would have at least avoided what we've got now.

We can't always get what we want in a candidate. Sometimes, as Obama says, it's chicken or fish.

Or chicken or swill.

Cornel was right earlier. The Hillary supporters failed to see her weaknesses as a candidate.

Bill was right later. The Bernie supporters pouted because they couldn't get their way.

The Democratic coalitiion got pulled apart a la 2000 all over again. And the result was even worse.


While my personal views are closer to Bernie's than to Hillary's, I'm not so sure if he would have done that much better in the general election against trump than she did. The same way that Obama lost a certain amount of support because of his race, I still feel that anti-Semitism would have been a factor in the election

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Reply #10 posted 05/22/17 8:20am

RodeoSchro

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The only thing that matters re: Bill Maher is that he is at the top pf the my Men I Would Like To Punch In The Mouth list. That isn't ever going to change; at least, not until I actually get to punch him in the mouth.

At that point he will move from my Men I Would Like To Punch In The Mouth list to my Men I Would Like To Punch In The Mouth Again list.

Other than that, Bill Maher should be ignored at all times.


.

[Edited 5/22/17 8:20am]

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #11 posted 05/22/17 8:24am

OnlyNDaUsa

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For one Bill ignored that Slager has plead guilty.


and it is sad that anyone thinks Hillary is a good option. I get some may see her as better than trump. and to vote for her is the better of the 2 options. What I do not like is that the same is not an acceptable view from a trump voter.


but I do not expect the likes of maher to be honest.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #12 posted 05/22/17 8:24am

jjhunsecker

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RodeoSchro said:

The only thing that matters re: Bill Maher is that he is at the top pf the my Men I Would Like To Punch In The Mouth list. That isn't ever going to change; at least, not until I actually get to punch him in the mouth.

At that point he will move from my Men I Would Like To Punch In The Mouth list to my Men I Would Like To Punch In The Mouth Again list.

Other than that, Bill Maher should be ignored at all times.


.

[Edited 5/22/17 8:20am]

OK- we get that you don't like Bill...

Personally, I probably agree with him about 90% of the time

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Reply #13 posted 05/22/17 8:54am

RodeoSchro

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jjhunsecker said:

RodeoSchro said:

The only thing that matters re: Bill Maher is that he is at the top pf the my Men I Would Like To Punch In The Mouth list. That isn't ever going to change; at least, not until I actually get to punch him in the mouth.

At that point he will move from my Men I Would Like To Punch In The Mouth list to my Men I Would Like To Punch In The Mouth Again list.

Other than that, Bill Maher should be ignored at all times.


.

[Edited 5/22/17 8:20am]

OK- we get that you don't like Bill...

Personally, I probably agree with him about 90% of the time



Hopefully you get that the list is humorous. I probably would not punch Bill Maher in the mouth if I ever met him. But then again, I might not be very polite. I do not like the guy.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #14 posted 05/22/17 9:24am

jjhunsecker

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

For one Bill ignored that Slager has plead guilty.


and it is sad that anyone thinks Hillary is a good option. I get some may see her as better than trump. and to vote for her is the better of the 2 options. What I do not like is that the same is not an acceptable view from a trump voter.


but I do not expect the likes of maher to be honest.

We do get it : for Hillary supporters, her "e-mail" issues mattered less than his racism and misogyny, and for Trump supporters, they chose to overlook those issues to support him

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Reply #15 posted 05/22/17 9:31am

13cjk13

jjhunsecker said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

For one Bill ignored that Slager has plead guilty.


and it is sad that anyone thinks Hillary is a good option. I get some may see her as better than trump. and to vote for her is the better of the 2 options. What I do not like is that the same is not an acceptable view from a trump voter.


but I do not expect the likes of maher to be honest.

We do get it : for Hillary supporters, her "e-mail" issues mattered less than his racism and misogyny, and for Trump supporters, they chose to overlook those issues to support him

In their defense, the orange buffoon's supporters had 30 years of brainwashing by Ailes, his minions, and a myriad of reprehensible republicans. Lies and more lies that worked on the less educated idiots in this country.

Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
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Reply #16 posted 05/22/17 9:34am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

For one Bill ignored that Slager has plead guilty.


and it is sad that anyone thinks Hillary is a good option. I get some may see her as better than trump. and to vote for her is the better of the 2 options. What I do not like is that the same is not an acceptable view from a trump voter.


but I do not expect the likes of maher to be honest.

We do get it : for Hillary supporters, her "e-mail" issues mattered less than his racism and misogyny, and for Trump supporters, they chose to overlook those issues to support him

you are being neither honest nor complete in your post.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #17 posted 05/22/17 9:45am

purplepoppy

Fun dust up to watch, especially the yelling. shoot2 shoot3
I agree with both of them on a variety of issues, not always. Admit that since the election and this presidency I do get pissed off when people who said Hillary was just as bad won't admit that this is far worse. Because it is, it's far worse. Regardless of all the kitchen sink (including the Electoral College) arguments thrown in - HRC would be a better Pres right now.

Brand new boogie without the hero.
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Reply #18 posted 05/22/17 9:49am

jjhunsecker

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

jjhunsecker said:

We do get it : for Hillary supporters, her "e-mail" issues mattered less than his racism and misogyny, and for Trump supporters, they chose to overlook those issues to support him

you are being neither honest nor complete in your post.

How am I not being honest ? This is my opinion on how the election went down, and what the choices were

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Reply #19 posted 05/22/17 9:50am

13cjk13

purplepoppy said:

Fun dust up to watch, especially the yelling. shoot2 shoot3
I agree with both of them on a variety of issues, not always. Admit that since the election and this presidency I do get pissed off when people who said Hillary was just as bad won't admit that this is far worse. Because it is, it's far worse. Regardless of all the kitchen sink (including the Electoral College) arguments thrown in - HRC would be a better Pres right now.

ANYBODY would be a better president right now. Except for Pence. Or Ryan. Or McConnell. Or Chaffetz. Or Nunes. Or any other repulsive republican.

Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
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Reply #20 posted 05/22/17 9:52am

jjhunsecker

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13cjk13 said:

jjhunsecker said:

We do get it : for Hillary supporters, her "e-mail" issues mattered less than his racism and misogyny, and for Trump supporters, they chose to overlook those issues to support him

In their defense, the orange buffoon's supporters had 30 years of brainwashing by Ailes, his minions, and a myriad of reprehensible republicans. Lies and more lies that worked on the less educated idiots in this country.

Which is why I said in another post that Ailes was a brilliant businessman- he KNEW they were tons of under-educated White people in America who would be a great market for his brand of anger and hatred infused politics. He tapped into that, and it ballooned into a national phenemenom

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Reply #21 posted 05/22/17 9:54am

jjhunsecker

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13cjk13 said:

purplepoppy said:

Fun dust up to watch, especially the yelling. shoot2 shoot3
I agree with both of them on a variety of issues, not always. Admit that since the election and this presidency I do get pissed off when people who said Hillary was just as bad won't admit that this is far worse. Because it is, it's far worse. Regardless of all the kitchen sink (including the Electoral College) arguments thrown in - HRC would be a better Pres right now.

ANYBODY would be a better president right now. Except for Pence. Or Ryan. Or McConnell. Or Chaffetz. Or Nunes. Or any other repulsive republican.

To be honest- as horrible as that list is, those folks are bad politicians and just wrong for America. Trump is a demented nut-job on top of all that

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Reply #22 posted 05/22/17 10:09am

purplepoppy

jjhunsecker said:

13cjk13 said:

In their defense, the orange buffoon's supporters had 30 years of brainwashing by Ailes, his minions, and a myriad of reprehensible republicans. Lies and more lies that worked on the less educated idiots in this country.

Which is why I said in another post that Ailes was a brilliant businessman- he KNEW they were tons of under-educated White people in America who would be a great market for his brand of anger and hatred infused politics. He tapped into that, and it ballooned into a national phenemenom

Horrible human being - genius businessman. Goes right along with the asshole who is a great artist. It's like people's attributes are dice in a shaker and any combination can roll out in a person.

Brand new boogie without the hero.
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Reply #23 posted 05/22/17 10:10am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

you are being neither honest nor complete in your post.

How am I not being honest ? This is my opinion on how the election went down, and what the choices were

because that was not her only issue and that was not the sole point of comparison. and you are aware of the other issues I have with her and you seem to choose to ignore them.

It is also not all that honest as it simply ignores the possibility that a person can take everything we have learned about both of them and calculated that he was better than her.

you can not seem to grasp that all his known faults were measured against her's... I do not see how anyone would come to see her as better but I am not going to make a personal judgment about it.

It is like I like vanilla ice cream! (vanilla bean!) some like Rocky Road... it is a personal option and not something that ought to be used to judge or insult as you and others have done.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #24 posted 05/22/17 10:12am

jjhunsecker

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Hmmm...Didn't Trump attack HRC during the campaign for the Clinton Foundation accepting money from the Saudis, claiming they were "anti-woman" ?

http://www.npr.org/sectio...anka-trump

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Reply #25 posted 05/22/17 10:17am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

Hmmm...Didn't Trump attack HRC during the campaign for the Clinton Foundation accepting money from the Saudis, claiming they were "anti-woman" ?

http://www.npr.org/sectio...anka-trump

wasn't money sent to her foundation or campaign? He did not get any of that money it goes to the Fed. And his point was how can Hillary say she is pro-woman if she takes money for her own self-interest from such a government.



But it is a good point... just maybe not as good of a point as you think.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #26 posted 05/22/17 10:20am

jjhunsecker

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

jjhunsecker said:

How am I not being honest ? This is my opinion on how the election went down, and what the choices were

because that was not her only issue and that was not the sole point of comparison. and you are aware of the other issues I have with her and you seem to choose to ignore them.

It is also not all that honest as it simply ignores the possibility that a person can take everything we have learned about both of them and calculated that he was better than her.

you can not seem to grasp that all his known faults were measured against her's... I do not see how anyone would come to see her as better but I am not going to make a personal judgment about it.

It is like I like vanilla ice cream! (vanilla bean!) some like Rocky Road... it is a personal option and not something that ought to be used to judge or insult as you and others have done.

The main thing we heard from Trump and hsi supporters were "lock her up !" beccause of the supposed e-mail scandals. And they tried to use Benghazi, which numerous probes exonerated HRC from any personal misdeeds.

You refuse to accept that many of his supporters heard Trump's bigotry and xenophobia and misogyny, and either ignored it or excused it (and I'm sure many were fine with it as well...)Others of us found hsi statements and actions highly inflammatory and offensive. You're pretty much telling us where you stood on that issue ...

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Reply #27 posted 05/22/17 10:23am

jjhunsecker

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

jjhunsecker said:

Hmmm...Didn't Trump attack HRC during the campaign for the Clinton Foundation accepting money from the Saudis, claiming they were "anti-woman" ?

http://www.npr.org/sectio...anka-trump

wasn't money sent to her foundation or campaign? He did not get any of that money it goes to the Fed. And his point was how can Hillary say she is pro-woman if she takes money for her own self-interest from such a government.



But it is a good point... just maybe not as good of a point as you think.

How can Ivanka cllaim to be "pro-woman" either ?

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Reply #28 posted 05/22/17 10:26am

deebee

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2freaky4church1 said:

Proud Bernie Bro. Deebee, they did a poll, 73 percent of blacks like Bernie. lol

I saw that. He had very high approval ratings amongst minorities and women. In fact, the two demographic categories in which his polling was lowest were 'Whites' and 'men' - which jars somewhat with the oft-repeated mythology.


http://thehill.com/homene...politician

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #29 posted 05/22/17 10:31am

jjhunsecker

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deebee said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Proud Bernie Bro. Deebee, they did a poll, 73 percent of blacks like Bernie. lol

I saw that. He had very high approval ratings amongst minorities and women. In fact, the two demographic categories in which his polling was lowest were 'Whites' and 'men' - which jars somewhat with the oft-repeated mythology.


http://thehill.com/homene...politician

Which again, makes me ponder how much a factor anti-Semitism would have been if he was in the generl election, the same way we can ponder how much race and sex were a factor with Obama and HRC

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