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Thread started 05/17/17 5:09am

hausofmoi7

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Donald Trump trying to sell $100 billion of weapons to Saudi Arabia

Donald Trump like president's before him will be arming Saudi Arabia.
In addition to the Saudi funding and support of groups such as ISIS and Al Qaeda, Saudi Arabia are directly pillaging the people of Yemen and thier country.





http://www.independent.co...21106.html

The US is trying to push through a multi-billion dollar arms deal with Saudi Arabia ahead of Donald Trump’s visit to Riyadh, a report has revealed.

The President is set to visit the Vatican, Israel and Saudi Arabia this month, as part of his maiden international trip.

Mr Trump's administration is keen to repair the relationship with the regional power following tensions caused by the Obama administration’s nuclear deal with Iran.

The arms sales contracts are likely to comprise of Lockheed Martin Co program packages with a Terminal Altitude Area Defence (THAAD) missile defence system worth $1bn (£770 million), a C2BMC software system, and a package with satellite capabilities.

Provided by BAE Systems PLC, a Bradley Fighting Vehicle and an M109 artillery vehicle are also under consideration as part of the deal.

In addition, an $11.5bn (£8.86bn) package made up of four multi-mission surface combatant ships, which had been approved by the US state department in 2015 but never made it to final contract, will also be revisited.


If this deal goes through, it will be the first sale of a small surface warship to a foreign power in decades.

Two US officials told Reuters that a US-Saudi working group met on Tuesday and Wednesday to discuss the details of the trip, including financing for military equipment.

Additionally, there will be $1bn (£770 million) worth of munitions, including armour-piercing Penetrator Warheads and Paveway laser-guided bombs. These contracts had been suspended by the Obama administration because of Saudi Arabia’s military campaign in Yemen, which caused the deaths of thousands of civilians.



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[Edited 5/17/17 5:18am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #1 posted 05/17/17 5:11am

Horsefeathers

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Wait for it...
Kids with cancer. Always funny! ~ HF. Context matters.
http://prince.org/msg/105/434875
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Reply #2 posted 05/17/17 6:11am

Pokeno4Money

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The foreign "independent" website lists it's only source as *a report*??

Try harder, dude. Come up with a reputable media outlet that has a reputable source, not some foreign media with nothing more than *a report* to support it's claims.

rolleyes

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #3 posted 05/17/17 6:21am

13cjk13

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Pokeno4Money said:

The foreign "independent" website lists it's only source as *a report*??

Try harder, dude. Come up with a reputable media outlet that has a reputable source, not some foreign media with nothing more than *a report* to support it's claims.

rolleyes

Reuters. Because it seems so unbelievable that P.OS. 45 would sell 100 Billion dollars of anything to anyone, chief lol.

Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
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Reply #4 posted 05/17/17 6:41am

hausofmoi7

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Pokeno4Money said:

The foreign "independent" website lists it's only source as *a report*??

Try harder, dude. Come up with a reputable media outlet that has a reputable source, not some foreign media with nothing more than *a report* to support it's claims.

rolleyes



https://www.reuters.com/a...8832N?il=0

http://www.bbcnewspoint.c...ump-visit/

Address the issue and don't deflect. These are awfull developments.
[Edited 5/17/17 6:47am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #5 posted 05/17/17 6:43am

Pokeno4Money

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13cjk13 said:

Pokeno4Money said:

The foreign "independent" website lists it's only source as *a report*??

Try harder, dude. Come up with a reputable media outlet that has a reputable source, not some foreign media with nothing more than *a report* to support it's claims.

rolleyes

Reuters. Because it seems so unbelievable that P.OS. 45 would sell 100 Billion dollars of anything to anyone, chief lol.


"The official, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity"

Nuf ced. I'll wait for the announcement from someone who isn't afraid to reveal their identity, mate.

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #6 posted 05/17/17 6:49am

hausofmoi7

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Pokeno4Money said:



13cjk13 said:




Pokeno4Money said:


The foreign "independent" website lists it's only source as *a report*??

Try harder, dude. Come up with a reputable media outlet that has a reputable source, not some foreign media with nothing more than *a report* to support it's claims.

rolleyes



Reuters. Because it seems so unbelievable that P.OS. 45 would sell 100 Billion dollars of anything to anyone, chief lol.




"The official, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity"

Nuf ced. I'll wait for the announcement from someone who isn't afraid to reveal their identity, mate.


Bye.
Don't try and throw this topic off.
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #7 posted 05/17/17 6:51am

Pokeno4Money

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hausofmoi7 said:

Pokeno4Money said:


"The official, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity"

Nuf ced. I'll wait for the announcement from someone who isn't afraid to reveal their identity, mate.

Bye. Don't try and throw this topic off.


Ciao. I stayed on topic, mate. Your comment is nonsensical.

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #8 posted 05/17/17 6:57am

DiminutiveRock
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Deep Throat was an anonymous source and the information he provided brought down Nixon.

"When you have people who don't know about science standing in denial of it and rising to power - that is a recipe for the complete dismantling of our informed democracy" - Neil de Grasse Tyson
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Reply #9 posted 05/17/17 7:34am

2freaky4church
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It started under Barry:

https://www.washingtonpos...-as-usual/

Pokeno is so uninformed.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
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Reply #10 posted 05/17/17 4:35pm

Pokeno4Money

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2freaky4church1 said:

It started under Barry:

https://www.washingtonpos...-as-usual/

Pokeno is so uninformed.


Sorry mate, but $1.85 Billion is not quite the same as $100 billion.

rolleyes

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #11 posted 05/17/17 4:48pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

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$100 Billion weapons to Saudi. Robert Mueller covered up 911-Saudi involvement and now he is investigating Trump? CNN is quiet about Muellers background. Again something is really weird. Prediction: Terrorist attack and they pin it on Russia. All of this is too much to think about.

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Reply #12 posted 05/17/17 5:03pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

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Russia is the super power that could compete with Saudis as far as oil.

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Reply #13 posted 05/18/17 7:56am

2freaky4church
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Superfurry: Chemtrails are caused by Morris Day's hair spray.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
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Reply #14 posted 05/18/17 8:21am

OnlyNDaUsa

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yeah and? either it will be approved by the body with the authority to approve such or it will not...so what?

I Stand United with Manchester!
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Reply #15 posted 05/18/17 9:15am

2freaky4church
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It is evil, right?

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
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Reply #16 posted 05/18/17 9:19am

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

It is evil, right?

it can be

I Stand United with Manchester!
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Reply #17 posted 05/18/17 10:38am

purplepoppy

2freaky4church1 said:

Superfurry: Chemtrails are caused by Morris Day's hair spray.


SF is making some interesting conjectures though. Politics are at play here. Mueller did get appointed real quick like.

Dance, shake it like a peckerwood.
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Reply #18 posted 05/19/17 6:52am

hausofmoi7

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OnlyNDaUsa said:



2freaky4church1 said:


It is evil, right?





it can be


Selling weapons that will kill people is evil. There is no grey area.
There is only one use for weapons.
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #19 posted 05/19/17 6:56am

Pokeno4Money

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hausofmoi7 said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

it can be

Selling weapons that will kill people is evil. There is no grey area. There is only one use for weapons.


In a kill or be killed situation, it's simply self-preservation.

Even the Bible says turn the other cheek, but it doesn't say allow yourself to be murdered.

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #20 posted 05/19/17 7:01am

hausofmoi7

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SuperFurryAnimal said:

$100 Billion weapons to Saudi. Robert Mueller covered up 911-Saudi involvement and now he is investigating Trump? CNN is quiet about Muellers background. Again something is really weird. Prediction: Terrorist attack and they pin it on Russia. All of this is too much to think about.


So you have no issue with Trump selling weapons to Saudi Arabia?
Do you realise what these weapons are doing to people? Have you heard about Yemen?
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #21 posted 05/19/17 7:07am

Pokeno4Money

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hausofmoi7 said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

$100 Billion weapons to Saudi. Robert Mueller covered up 911-Saudi involvement and now he is investigating Trump? CNN is quiet about Muellers background. Again something is really weird. Prediction: Terrorist attack and they pin it on Russia. All of this is too much to think about.

So you have no issue with Trump selling weapons to Saudi Arabia? Do you realise what these weapons are doing to people? Have you heard about Yemen?


Choosing to support Saudi Arabia is no different than what Americans had to do for last year's election. There's no "perfect" choice, so you go with the "best" choice. America needs some allies in the Middle East, and Saudia Arabia is the best choice based on past history.

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #22 posted 05/19/17 7:54am

OnlyNDaUsa

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hausofmoi7 said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

it can be

Selling weapons that will kill people is evil. There is no grey area. There is only one use for weapons.

weird i can think of 3 at least. but you do not seem to know much about ethical theory. So I will just assume you are not even able to hold any such debate...

But I will say the Right act is the one that of all alternative acts creates the most good OR the least evil. So an evil act can be the Right act if it meets that standard. Now many believe that is what is called situational ethics...but no. the value of the act is still the same... but as some acts have better consequences than others there must be a Right act.

I Stand United with Manchester!
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Reply #23 posted 05/19/17 9:54am

2freaky4church
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Soft on terror eh Pokeno? Saudi pigs should go to hell.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
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Reply #24 posted 05/19/17 10:03am

purplepoppy

Not to mention we are supporting a male only society that does not recognize women in any way beyond ownership.

Dance, shake it like a peckerwood.
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Reply #25 posted 05/19/17 10:38am

OnlyNDaUsa

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purplepoppy said:

Not to mention we are supporting a male only society that does not recognize women in any way beyond ownership.

sadly there is a lot of that in the world. Most women in the world live under actual oppressive conditions.

I Stand United with Manchester!
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Reply #26 posted 05/19/17 11:01am

QueenofCardboa
rd

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lurking

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Donald Trump
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Reply #27 posted 05/19/17 7:14pm

hausofmoi7

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Donald Trump Said Saudi Arabia Was Behind 9/11. Now He’s Going There on His First Foreign Trip.

https://theintercept.com/...eign-trip/

Mehdi Hasan
May 18 2017, 9:17 p.m.
DOES DONALD TRUMP have even an ounce of shame?

As a presidential candidate, he spent much of the election campaign needling, critiquing, denouncing, and even threatening the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Yet as president, he is making his first foreign visit this weekend to … the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Even by Trumpian standards, the volte-face is brazen. In his first few months in power, we have witnessed the trademark Trump Turnabout on issues ranging from NATO to China to the Export-Import Bank. We have listened to him go from praising Bashar al-Assad and rebuking Janet Yellen on the campaign trail, to praising Yellen and rebuking Assad in office. Last October, he said that then-FBI Director James Comey had “guts” for doing “the right thing”; last week, he sacked Comey and called him a “showboat” and a “grandstander.”

Trump, to put it mildly, is no stranger to the shameless U-turn. Still, the Trump Turnabout on Saudi Arabia — one of America’s closest allies since President Franklin D. Roosevelt met with King Abdul Aziz ibn Saud aboard the USS Murphy in 1945 — is a true sight to behold. This weekend, Trump will arrive in Saudi Arabia for a bilateral summit with King Salman as well as a series of meetings with members of the Gulf Cooperation Council.

There will be handshakes, hugs, and smiles galore. We will be expected to forget how Trump blasted the Saudi royals for being freeloaders and threatened them with an economic boycott. Speaking to the New York Times last year, Trump claimed that, without U.S. support and protection, “Saudi Arabia wouldn’t exist for very long.” The real problem, he continued, was that the Saudis are “a money machine … and yet they don’t reimburse us the way we should be reimbursed.” Asked if he would be willing to “stop buying oil from the Saudis” if they refused to pull their weight, Trump responded: “Oh yeah, sure. I would do that.”

We will be also expected to ignore the fact that Trump slammed the Saudi government for executing homosexuals and treating women “horribly.” In the third presidential debate last October, Trump attacked Hillary Clinton for taking $25 million from the Saudis, from “people that push gays off … buildings. These are people that kill women and treat women horribly and yet you take their money.”

Perhaps above all else, we will be expected to brush under the carpet the fact that, twice in a single day, Trump accused Saudi Arabia of being behind the 9/11 attacks. “Who blew up the World Trade Center?” Trump asked his pals at Fox and Friends on the morning of February 17, 2016. “It wasn’t the Iraqis, it was Saudi — take a look at Saudi Arabia, open the documents.”

At a campaign event in South Carolina later that day, he again cited “secret papers” that could prove it was “the Saudis” who were in fact responsible for the attacks on 9/11. “It wasn’t the Iraqis that knocked down the World Trade Center … because they have papers in there that are very secret, you may find it’s the Saudis, OK?”

(To be fair to Trump, far more credible and better-informed figures have come to a similar conclusion: “I am convinced that there was a direct line between at least some of the terrorists who carried out the September 11 attacks and the government of Saudi Arabia,” wrote former Florida Sen. Bob Graham, who co-chaired the Senate intelligence committee’s inquiry into 9/11, in an affidavit in 2012.)

Whether or not the Saudi government played a role in the 9/11 attacks — and we may never know — for a leading U.S. presidential candidate to claim that they did, not once but twice, had to be seen to be believed. And yet, astonishingly, a little over a year later, it is to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia that Trump has chosen to make his maiden foreign voyage — rather than to Canada or Mexico, as every president since Ronald Reagan has.

Will Trump return from his Saudi jaunt with a big fat check? His much-hyped “reimbursement”? Will he dare raise the issue of gay rights while in Riyadh? Or women’s rights? Will he manage to bring back a Saudi royal or two in handcuffs for their (alleged) role in the 9/11 attacks? Please. There are greater odds of the American president coming back as a proud convert to Islam.

Hypocrisy is not the exclusive preserve of Trump or the United States, of course. Saudi Arabia sees itself as the “the birthplace of Islam,” ruled by a king who styles himself “custodian of the two holy mosques.” Yet this coming weekend, the Saudi government will offer a warm and lavish welcome to a president who has said “Islam hates us” and wanted to ban all of the world’s 1.6 billion Muslims from entering the United States. The Saudi position on the latest iteration of the Trump travel ban, targeted at 170 million-odd Muslims? A “sovereign” decision aimed, apparently, at “preventing terrorists from entering the United States of America” and made by a “true friend of Muslims.”

On Sunday, the fawning Saudis will offer a platform to the world’s most famous Islamophobe, to give a speech on Islam in “the birthplace” of Islam. And Trump will likely take the opportunity to decry “radical Islamic terrorism” while visiting a country that has perhaps done more than any other to incite, fund, and fuel it.

Hypocrisy unites them both. So too does their fear and loathing of the Iranians — the Saudis are busying dropping bombs and backing militants to push back Iranian influence in Yemen and Syria. The Trump administration, filled with Iran hawks, is on the verge of inking a series of arms deals with Riyadh worth more than $100 billion.

To be clear: Trump’s U-turn on Saudi Arabia has little to do with being moderated by the realities of high office or swayed by the Beltway’s foreign policy elites. Despite his bombastic campaign rhetoric, he never planned to go after the Saudis in office — even after publicly accusing them of murdering 3,000 Americans. Early on in the campaign, in 2015, a senior Arab diplomat told me, on condition of anonymity, that Trump had informed most of the Gulf governments, in private, that his anti-Muslim and anti-Arab rhetoric was “all for the campaign” and that it would be business as usual once he was elected (or, for that matter, defeated).

As ever, for Trump, it is always, above all else, about the bottom line — his bottom line. The Saudi-bashing Trump sold an entire floor of the Trump World Tower to the Saudis for $4.5 million in 2001. And would it surprise you to discover that Trump also registered eight companies tied to hotel interests in Saudi Arabia in the midst of his Saudi-bashing presidential campaign?

Of course not. Business is business. Trump is Trump. You might be repulsed by his deceitfulness … but you have to admire his chutzpah.
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #28 posted 05/21/17 12:20am

hausofmoi7

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OnlyNDaUsa said:



hausofmoi7 said:


OnlyNDaUsa said:




it can be



Selling weapons that will kill people is evil. There is no grey area. There is only one use for weapons.



weird i can think of 3 at least. but you do not seem to know much about ethical theory. So I will just assume you are not even able to hold any such debate...

But I will say the Right act is the one that of all alternative acts creates the most good OR the least evil. So an evil act can be the Right act if it meets that standard. Now many believe that is what is called situational ethics...but no. the value of the act is still the same... but as some acts have better consequences than others there must be a Right act.


This is an evil act and is not right, no matter which way you try to twist it. any attempt to rationalise it is simply playing devil's advocate.
You could just not sell weapons and that surely is the right act.


.
Your attempts to try and say that weapons sales is a neutral act and that the outcome is dependent on how the purchaser will use said technology is flawed here as the purchasers history with using the technology is known. Which makes it an even more evil act.



.
[Edited 5/21/17 5:59am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #29 posted 05/21/17 7:02am

OnlyNDaUsa

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hausofmoi7 said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

weird i can think of 3 at least. but you do not seem to know much about ethical theory. So I will just assume you are not even able to hold any such debate...

But I will say the Right act is the one that of all alternative acts creates the most good OR the least evil. So an evil act can be the Right act if it meets that standard. Now many believe that is what is called situational ethics...but no. the value of the act is still the same... but as some acts have better consequences than others there must be a Right act.

This is an evil act

Maybe...I am not sure. I am not sure there is an intrinsic evil in that act or with a weapon.


and is not right

we seem to use different meanings of that word... i use a version of G E Moore's what is your working definition?

, no matter which way you try to twist it.

No twisting at all, you just do not understand

any attempt to rationalise it is simply playing devil's advocate.

WRONG

You could just not sell weapons and that surely is the right act. .

That is not self evident

Your attempts to try and say that weapons sales is a neutral act

I am pretty sure I did not say that...

and that the outcome is dependent on how the purchaser will use said technology is flawed

I did not say it was easy to determine


here as the purchasers history with using the technology is known.

assumed

Which makes it an even more evil act.


The value of the act is only part of evaluating if it is right or not.
I Stand United with Manchester!
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