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Reply #90 posted 03/20/17 8:22am

2elijah

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:



2elijah said:


OnlyNDaUsa said:




when one assumes race and uses that as a negative what else do you call it?

it is funny I say some democrats use fear and offer services to some to get votes... and that is deemed racist but then a man of color is republican they are a trader and I have see it said that all the Trump supporters that are not rich will get theirs... someone hoped i will get sick just to see me get karma.



You have no clue what Black folks think. According to your stereotyped beliefs of Blacks, just based on what you posted, it's quite clear you think all Blacks should have the same opinion about Blacks in other political parties,

not at all , i just do not think anyone should use race based slurs


and you make an assinine assumption, that all Blacks think a Black Republican, is a 'traitor'. Lmao.

Not at all what I said I said SOME DEMOCRATS...


It's amazing that you really think any Black Anerican in their right mind, would have such a limited view.

well i said nothing like that so...


You're watching too much Fox News. Get off that train wreck of Hannity and Oreiily.

Again you make up something about me in some loony tunes attempt to put me down?





Yeah ok, you're hilarious.
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Reply #91 posted 03/20/17 8:28am

2elijah

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If she indeed stole an item, then she will pay the consequences, but even the shop owner who put her in a choke hold admitted he went too far. So there it is. Let them handle it in court. But it seems some here wouldn't be satisfied, unless the shop owner had beat her to a pulp or killed her.
Now if she did not steal anything, then tgat changes everything, and her only fault would be hitting the shop owner, if she hit him first. But if he hit her first, again that changes everything.
[Edited 3/20/17 9:16am]
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Reply #92 posted 03/20/17 9:09am

Dasein

peedub said:


i didn't see on the video where it clearly showed who put their hands on who first...

but...

dude had every right to defend his property; he doesn't have to wait for a cop to do it. he says he has video evidence of her shoplifting. he confronts her. it gets physical. if she did indeed have his property, she becomes a felon as soon as she threatens violence against him to remove it from his premises. if she had simply said 'i don't have your shit. call a cop and we'll go by the book and prove that i don't' then it would have all been cool. if she didn't have his property, a cop would've searched her and found that she didn't. no harm, no foul. if she did have his shit, she's caught and suffers the consequences. it might be inconvenient to have to prove your inncocence, and you can boycott your accuser all you want. but, come on...this is a society of rules...

i don't see how race has anything to do with it.


If it is proven or shown that she didn't have anything, which she is claiming, then it is possible that
a reason why the shop owner accused her of stealing is because he racially profiled her.

But did you read this part of the OP link?:

"The beauty store incident occurred just days before the 26th anniversary of the death of Latasha
Harlins
, a 15-year-old Los Angeles native. On March 16, 1991, Harlins was shot and killed by a
South Korean liquor store owner who mistakenly thought she was shoplifting."

There is historical precedence in this country of store owners racially profiling Black Americans
and meting out "punishment" or "justice" with no justification. So, many Black Americans, and
understandably so, are particularly vigilant about matters such as this where even if there is no
instance of racial profiling, Black Americans ought to be looking for it and expecting it because
you could end up dead depending upon the circumstances.


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Reply #93 posted 03/20/17 9:31am

peedub

avatar

Dasein said:

peedub said:


i didn't see on the video where it clearly showed who put their hands on who first...

but...

dude had every right to defend his property; he doesn't have to wait for a cop to do it. he says he has video evidence of her shoplifting. he confronts her. it gets physical. if she did indeed have his property, she becomes a felon as soon as she threatens violence against him to remove it from his premises. if she had simply said 'i don't have your shit. call a cop and we'll go by the book and prove that i don't' then it would have all been cool. if she didn't have his property, a cop would've searched her and found that she didn't. no harm, no foul. if she did have his shit, she's caught and suffers the consequences. it might be inconvenient to have to prove your inncocence, and you can boycott your accuser all you want. but, come on...this is a society of rules...

i don't see how race has anything to do with it.


If it is proven or shown that she didn't have anything, which she is claiming, then it is possible that
a reason why the shop owner accused her of stealing is because he racially profiled her.

But did you read this part of the OP link?:

"The beauty store incident occurred just days before the 26th anniversary of the death of Latasha
Harlins
, a 15-year-old Los Angeles native. On March 16, 1991, Harlins was shot and killed by a
South Korean liquor store owner who mistakenly thought she was shoplifting."

There is historical precedence in this country of store owners racially profiling Black Americans
and meting out "punishment" or "justice" with no justification. So, many Black Americans, and
understandably so, are particularly vigilant about matters such as this where even if there is no
instance of racial profiling, Black Americans ought to be looking for it and expecting it because
you could end up dead depending upon the circumstances.




the shop owner stated he had video evidence of her theft...so, no profiling. he witnessed the theft of his property.

i am familiar with the death of latasha harlins after watching oj: made in america. i don't see how that has any bearing whatsoever except to inject an otherwise unnecessary emotional component.

and, whether you're racially profiled or not, following procedure to prove your innocence would help your demographic's cause a lot sooner than turning to violence to avoid prosecution for breaking the rules.

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Reply #94 posted 03/20/17 9:43am

2elijah

avatar

peedub said:



Dasein said:




peedub said:



i didn't see on the video where it clearly showed who put their hands on who first...

but...

dude had every right to defend his property; he doesn't have to wait for a cop to do it. he says he has video evidence of her shoplifting. he confronts her. it gets physical. if she did indeed have his property, she becomes a felon as soon as she threatens violence against him to remove it from his premises. if she had simply said 'i don't have your shit. call a cop and we'll go by the book and prove that i don't' then it would have all been cool. if she didn't have his property, a cop would've searched her and found that she didn't. no harm, no foul. if she did have his shit, she's caught and suffers the consequences. it might be inconvenient to have to prove your inncocence, and you can boycott your accuser all you want. but, come on...this is a society of rules...

i don't see how race has anything to do with it.




If it is proven or shown that she didn't have anything, which she is claiming, then it is possible that
a reason why the shop owner accused her of stealing is because he racially profiled her.

But did you read this part of the OP link?:

"The beauty store incident occurred just days before the 26th anniversary of the death of Latasha
Harlins
, a 15-year-old Los Angeles native. On March 16, 1991, Harlins was shot and killed by a
South Korean liquor store owner who mistakenly thought she was shoplifting."

There is historical precedence in this country of store owners racially profiling Black Americans
and meting out "punishment" or "justice" with no justification. So, many Black Americans, and
understandably so, are particularly vigilant about matters such as this where even if there is no
instance of racial profiling, Black Americans ought to be looking for it and expecting it because
you could end up dead depending upon the circumstances.






the shop owner stated he had video evidence of her theft...so, no profiling. he witnessed the theft of his property.

i am familiar with the death of latasha harlins after watching oj: made in america. i don't see how that has any bearing whatsoever except to inject an otherwise unnecessary emotional component.

and, whether you're racially profiled or not, following procedure to prove your innocence would help your demographic's cause a lot sooner than turning to violence to avoid prosecution for breaking the rules.


Wtf? You know what would help stop racial profiling? The destruction of white supremacy bs and lies. This way it can't be used as a fear tactic, and lie about an entire, racial group, by assuming they are all suspicious of criminal activity, and, so that when they walk into a store, elevator or stopped by a cop, they won't 'all' be immediately judged, followed or assumed as 'suspects.'

Now if she actually stole an item, then she will face the consequences, and pay for her action, but at the end of the day, the store owner went too far, with how he handled it. He even admitted that. Let them have their day in court.
[Edited 3/20/17 9:48am]
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Reply #95 posted 03/20/17 9:59am

peedub

avatar

2elijah said:


Wtf? You know what would help stop racial profiling? The destruction of white supremacy bs and lies. This way it can't be used as a fear tactic, and lie about an entire, racial group, by assuming they are all suspicious of criminal activity, and, so that when they walk into a store, elevator or stopped by a cop, they won't 'all' be immediately judged, followed or assumed as 'suspects.' Now if she actually stole an item, then she will face the consequences, and pay for her action, but at the end of the day, the store owner went too far, with how he handled it. He even admitted that. Let them have their day in court. [Edited 3/20/17 9:48am]



don't get me wrong...i'm not saying that 'white supremacy bs and lies' don't exist and that racial profiling doesn't happen. but shit needs to be taken on a case by case basis and not have emotionally charged, sweeping generalizations applied to everything.

dude said he witnessed her stealing his property. he has every right to protect his property, up to and including physically stopping her from taking it. he might have gone too far for his taste, but he was within his legal rights. things escalated because she turned to violence as a means of escape rather than proving her innocence/facing the consequences for her actions.

[Edited 3/20/17 10:02am]

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Reply #96 posted 03/20/17 10:22am

Dasein

peedub said:

Dasein said:


If it is proven or shown that she didn't have anything, which she is claiming, then it is possible that
a reason why the shop owner accused her of stealing is because he racially profiled her.

But did you read this part of the OP link?:

"The beauty store incident occurred just days before the 26th anniversary of the death of Latasha
Harlins
, a 15-year-old Los Angeles native. On March 16, 1991, Harlins was shot and killed by a
South Korean liquor store owner who mistakenly thought she was shoplifting."

There is historical precedence in this country of store owners racially profiling Black Americans
and meting out "punishment" or "justice" with no justification. So, many Black Americans, and
understandably so, are particularly vigilant about matters such as this where even if there is no
instance of racial profiling, Black Americans ought to be looking for it and expecting it because
you could end up dead depending upon the circumstances.




the shop owner stated he had video evidence of her theft...so, no profiling. he witnessed the theft of his property.

i am familiar with the death of latasha harlins after watching oj: made in america. i don't see how that has any bearing whatsoever except to inject an otherwise unnecessary emotional component.

and, whether you're racially profiled or not, following procedure to prove your innocence would help your demographic's cause a lot sooner than turning to violence to avoid prosecution for breaking the rules.


She is innocent until proven guilty. And while he says that he's proof that she was stealing on
video yet in the same video, she claims her innocence and asks him to check her belongings so
that he could see that she possessed no stolen items. And the only reason why he would have
video of her stealing, if she did steal, is because he profiled her initially. I'm pretty sure he didn't
just randomly follow her via camera. He had to have profiled her otherwise why was he following
her via camera in the first place? Well, because she was Black, that's why! Her alleged thievery
justifies his racial profiling in your/his opinion, eh?

The HP's mentioning of Latasha Harlins is to show that there is historical precedence of store
owners mistakenly accusing Black Americans of shoplifting. To frame it as an attempt to "inject
an otherwise unnecessary emotional component" in this story is arrantly ridiculous and narrow-
minded. In other words: you can't or don't want to deal with the truth of many Black Americans
being racially profiled unjustifiably.

It would help my "demographic" if white people and others weren't so fucking racist. And don't
tell Black Americans how they ought to behave after we've been racially profiled until you've told
white lawmakers how they ought to behave when crafting and implementing social policies.

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Reply #97 posted 03/20/17 10:39am

peedub

avatar

Dasein said:


She is innocent until proven guilty. And while he says that he's proof that she was stealing on
video yet in the same video, she claims her innocence and asks him to check her belongings so
that he could see that she possessed no stolen items. And the only reason why he would have
video of her stealing, if she did steal, is because he profiled her initially. I'm pretty sure he didn't
just randomly follow her via camera. He had to have profiled her otherwise why was he following
her via camera in the first place? Well, because she was Black, that's why! Her alleged thievery
justifies his racial profiling in your/his opinion, eh?

The HP's mentioning of Latasha Harlins is to show that there is historical precedence of store
owners mistakenly accusing Black Americans of shoplifting. To frame it as an attempt to "inject
an otherwise unnecessary emotional component" in this story is arrantly ridiculous and narrow-
minded. In other words: you can't or don't want to deal with the truth of many Black Americans
being racially profiled unjustifiably.

It would help my "demographic" if white people and others weren't so fucking racist. And don't
tell Black Americans how they ought to behave after we've been racially profiled until you've told
white lawmakers how they ought to behave when crafting and implementing social policies.


ummm...security cameras, maybe? also, the article states she set off the alarm when leaving...

let's put things in perspective here...i'm guessing a large part of his clientele are black women. i don't think he got into business to persecute black women. he's in business to feed his family.

he confronted a suspected thief. said suspect turned to violence. he defended himself and his property. period. latasha harlins has nothing to do with it. latasha harlins was not on the mind of the suspect when this went down.

you think dude wouldn't have took down a crazy white lady in the same circumstances? i bet he would've.

[Edited 3/20/17 10:40am]

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Reply #98 posted 03/20/17 10:40am

RodeoSchro

avatar

Pokeno4Money said:

Weep for my brackets ... damn SMU.



Weep for my alma mater, SMU! Tough loss.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #99 posted 03/20/17 11:22am

2freaky4church
1

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Go X.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
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Reply #100 posted 03/20/17 11:27am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

what is whacky is some people seem to be assuming the worst of him and giving her the benefit of the doubt. As I said who is racially profiling whom?

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Reply #101 posted 03/20/17 11:27am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

RodeoSchro said:

Pokeno4Money said:

Weep for my brackets ... damn SMU.



Weep for my alma mater, SMU! Tough loss.

mine lost too but I did not even know they were in it until I saw a recap... they were leading and still lost! NMSU!

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Reply #102 posted 03/20/17 11:34am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Dasein said:


She is innocent until proven guilty. And while he says that he's proof that she was stealing on
video yet in the same video, she claims her innocence and asks him to check her belongings so
that he could see that she possessed no stolen items. And the only reason why he would have
video of her stealing, if she did steal, is because he profiled her initially. I'm pretty sure he didn't
just randomly follow her via camera. He had to have profiled her otherwise why was he following
her via camera in the first place? Well, because she was Black, that's why! Her alleged thievery
justifies his racial profiling in your/his opinion, eh?


or there are several fixed cameras. And wow you seem to be suggesting that even if she did steal it doesn't matter because he racially profiled her to begin with? the other possible things you are not considering are: 1) she had been there before and acted odd. 2) she was acting odd 3) she was seen trying to steal and then put on camera... as well as other possible reasons who or how she may have been recorded. Again you seem to assume the worst of him and giving her all the benefit.

The HP's mentioning of Latasha Harlins is to show that there is historical precedence of store
owners mistakenly accusing Black Americans of shoplifting. To frame it as an attempt to "inject
an otherwise unnecessary emotional component" in this story is arrantly ridiculous and narrow-
minded. In other words: you can't or don't want to deal with the truth of many Black Americans
being racially profiled unjustifiably.


again are you sure you are not making any assumptions at all about the man based of his ethnic background?

It would help my "demographic" if white people and others weren't so fucking racist. And don't
tell Black Americans how they ought to behave after we've been racially profiled until you've told
white lawmakers how they ought to behave when crafting and implementing social policies.


but you really seem to asume she was simply the victim of profiling and did nothing wrong when it is possable she did get caught stealing and that she is the one playing the race card.

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Reply #103 posted 03/20/17 11:35am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Asians have a bad history of race issues.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
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Reply #104 posted 03/20/17 11:42am

peedub

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

there is a bad history of race issues.


fixed that for you. case by case basis...at some point, the past is gonna have to be the past.

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Reply #105 posted 03/20/17 12:03pm

2elijah

avatar

peedub said:



2elijah said:



Wtf? You know what would help stop racial profiling? The destruction of white supremacy bs and lies. This way it can't be used as a fear tactic, and lie about an entire, racial group, by assuming they are all suspicious of criminal activity, and, so that when they walk into a store, elevator or stopped by a cop, they won't 'all' be immediately judged, followed or assumed as 'suspects.' Now if she actually stole an item, then she will face the consequences, and pay for her action, but at the end of the day, the store owner went too far, with how he handled it. He even admitted that. Let them have their day in court. [Edited 3/20/17 9:48am]



don't get me wrong...i'm not saying that 'white supremacy bs and lies' don't exist and that racial profiling doesn't happen. but shit needs to be taken on a case by case basis and not have emotionally charged, sweeping generalizations applied to everything.

dude said he witnessed her stealing his property. he has every right to protect his property, up to and including physically stopping her from taking it. he might have gone too far for his taste, but he was within his legal rights. things escalated because she turned to violence as a means of escape rather than proving her innocence/facing the consequences for her actions.

[Edited 3/20/17 10:02am]


Let me repeat... If she took the item and hit him with her hand first, then she will pay the consequences. Fact is, he went too far, and he admitted it. No one here said he didn't have a right to protect his property. If he had gone further and killed her with a bat in the head, would that satisfy everyone?

The fact that she hit him with her hand does not mean he could have taken the abuse as far as he did. Now if she hit him with a heavy weapon, i.e., a bat, then that would be a call to defend his life, and I would have a different opinion about it.
[Edited 3/20/17 12:11pm]
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Reply #106 posted 03/20/17 12:14pm

2elijah

avatar

peedub said:



2freaky4church1 said:


there is a bad history of race issues.




fixed that for you. case by case basis...at some point, the past is gonna have to be the past.


Not if racial behavior and actions of the past still exists today.
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Reply #107 posted 03/20/17 12:17pm

peedub

avatar

2elijah said:


Let me repeat... If she took the item and hit him with her hand first, then she will pay the consequences. Fact is, he went too far, and he admitted it. No one here said he didn't have a right to protect his property. If he had gone further and killed her with a bat in the head, would that satisfy everyone? The fact that she hit him with her hand does not mean he could have taken the abuse as far as he did. Now if she hit him with a heavy weapon, i.e., a weapon, then that would be a call to defend his life, and I would have a different opinion about it.



he didn't kill her. he didn't hit her with a bat. she ably escaped. why even bring it up?

he went too far for his comfort level, not too far regarding his rights. he was defending himself against a violent antagonist. he had every right to physically restrain and or retaliate once she instigated violence. she's bigger and motivated...jesus, he should just fucking lay down because she's a black woman?

how about 'don't start none, there won't be none'? why is it impossible to see this as an individual case and not bring past infractions into it?

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Reply #108 posted 03/20/17 12:17pm

peedub

avatar

2elijah said:

peedub said:


fixed that for you. case by case basis...at some point, the past is gonna have to be the past.

Not if racial behavior and actions of the past still exists today.



it hasn't been proven to exist in this case.

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Reply #109 posted 03/20/17 2:33pm

2elijah

avatar

peedub said:



2elijah said:



Let me repeat... If she took the item and hit him with her hand first, then she will pay the consequences. Fact is, he went too far, and he admitted it. No one here said he didn't have a right to protect his property. If he had gone further and killed her with a bat in the head, would that satisfy everyone? The fact that she hit him with her hand does not mean he could have taken the abuse as far as he did. Now if she hit him with a heavy weapon, i.e., a weapon, then that would be a call to defend his life, and I would have a different opinion about it.



he didn't kill her. he didn't hit her with a bat. she ably escaped. why even bring it up?

he went too far for his comfort level, not too far regarding his rights. he was defending himself against a violent antagonist. he had every right to physically restrain and or retaliate once she instigated violence. she's bigger and motivated...jesus, he should just fucking lay down because she's a black woman?

how about 'don't start none, there won't be none'? why is it impossible to see this as an individual case and not bring past infractions into it?


You're going off course. Now she's a violent antagonist? Really? How easily you have come to that conclusion and assumed that without knowing everything about her. Oh but you already made that assumption. Who said he had to lay down and take it be causes she is a Black? Lmao. Seems you've made it racial a long time ago. Let me repeat and hopefully you will comprehend it this time. If she hit him first, and he hit back, then he defended ex himself, but he went too far in hiw he continued to abuse by choke holding her. He could have killed her and you would not be the one who had to live with that. He apparently apologized for taking it that far. If he acknowledged that, then you should have enough common sense to understand, that he admitted taking it too far. No one said he could not defend himself, but to the point he held her down on the ground, in a choke hold was going too far.
[Edited 3/21/17 3:39am]
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Reply #110 posted 03/20/17 2:59pm

Dasein

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Dasein said:


She is innocent until proven guilty. And while he says that he's proof that she was stealing on
video yet in the same video, she claims her innocence and asks him to check her belongings so
that he could see that she possessed no stolen items. And the only reason why he would have
video of her stealing, if she did steal, is because he profiled her initially. I'm pretty sure he didn't
just randomly follow her via camera. He had to have profiled her otherwise why was he following
her via camera in the first place? Well, because she was Black, that's why! Her alleged thievery
justifies his racial profiling in your/his opinion, eh?


(1) or there are several fixed cameras. And wow you seem to be suggesting that even if she did steal it doesn't matter because he racially profiled her to begin with? the other possible things you are not considering are: 1) she had been there before and acted odd. 2) she was acting odd 3) she was seen trying to steal and then put on camera... as well as other possible reasons who or how she may have been recorded. Again you seem to assume the worst of him and giving her all the benefit.

The HP's mentioning of Latasha Harlins is to show that there is historical precedence of store
owners mistakenly accusing Black Americans of shoplifting. To frame it as an attempt to "inject
an otherwise unnecessary emotional component" in this story is arrantly ridiculous and narrow-
minded. In other words: you can't or don't want to deal with the truth of many Black Americans
being racially profiled unjustifiably.


(2) again are you sure you are not making any assumptions at all about the man based of his ethnic background?

It would help my "demographic" if white people and others weren't so fucking racist. And don't
tell Black Americans how they ought to behave after we've been racially profiled until you've told
white lawmakers how they ought to behave when crafting and implementing social policies.


(3) but you really seem to asume she was simply the victim of profiling and did nothing wrong when it is possable she did get caught stealing and that she is the one playing the race card.


(1) Good points, Only. But hear me out: because of historical precedence, we are allowed and quite
justified in supposing she was racially profiled as soon as she entered into this store and followed via
camera on account of her skin color. And answer my question: if she is discovered to have been
stealing, is any racial profiling justified? No; I don't think it ultimately doesn't matter if she was
stealing or not yet her culpability doesn't matter to my overall argument initially presented to Guitar-
hero and Pokeno which was to respond to their grousing about those who are viewing this as a racial
issue as most issues involving Black Americans in the USA is an issue because of our skin color on
account of historically being treated unfairly by policymakers and others in US society. EVERYTHING
with many of us is viewed through our Blackness as its the first point of reference for policymakers
who have a first point of reference as being "just human" when viewing themselves.

(2) Are you suggesting that I think he racially profiled her because he's Asian? lol

(3) see (1).

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Reply #111 posted 03/20/17 5:37pm

guitarslinger4
4

avatar

Dasein said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:


(1) Good points, Only. But hear me out: because of historical precedence, we are allowed and quite
justified in supposing she was racially profiled as soon as she entered into this store and followed via
camera on account of her skin color. And answer my question: if she is discovered to have been
stealing, is any racial profiling justified? No; I don't think it ultimately doesn't matter if she was
stealing or not yet her culpability doesn't matter to my overall argument initially presented to Guitar-
hero and Pokeno which was to respond to their grousing about those who are viewing this as a racial
issue as most issues involving Black Americans in the USA is an issue because of our skin color on
account of historically being treated unfairly by policymakers and others in US society. EVERYTHING
with many of us is viewed through our Blackness as its the first point of reference for policymakers
who have a first point of reference as being "just human" when viewing themselves.

(2) Are you suggesting that I think he racially profiled her because he's Asian? lol

(3) see (1).


The problem with the historical precedence argument is that it becomes a vicious circle. If that shop owner has a history of black people shoplifting in his store, then he's justified in profiling them by your logic. If his store is in a black neighborhood, then it's assumed that most of his clientele are black, so do you think he's following EVERYONE around that comes into his shop? It's possible but we don't know.

That's the other problem with this story is that there's a lot we don't know. The owner claims he has proof she was shoplifting, claims she hit him first, yet all we see is him following her around, kicking her, and then with her in a headlock. He could be lying, but there's a lot of context to this story that's missing and it looks like the news outlet intended to just stoke fires here by leaving a lot of that out.

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Reply #112 posted 03/20/17 5:47pm

Dasein

guitarslinger44 said:

Dasein said:


(1) Good points, Only. But hear me out: because of historical precedence, we are allowed and quite
justified in supposing she was racially profiled as soon as she entered into this store and followed via
camera on account of her skin color. And answer my question: if she is discovered to have been
stealing, is any racial profiling justified? No; I don't think it ultimately doesn't matter if she was
stealing or not yet her culpability doesn't matter to my overall argument initially presented to Guitar-
hero and Pokeno which was to respond to their grousing about those who are viewing this as a racial
issue as most issues involving Black Americans in the USA is an issue because of our skin color on
account of historically being treated unfairly by policymakers and others in US society. EVERYTHING
with many of us is viewed through our Blackness as its the first point of reference for policymakers
who have a first point of reference as being "just human" when viewing themselves.

(2) Are you suggesting that I think he racially profiled her because he's Asian? lol

(3) see (1).


The problem with the historical precedence argument is that it becomes a vicious circle. If that shop owner has a history of black people shoplifting in his store, then he's justified in profiling them by your logic. If his store is in a black neighborhood, then it's assumed that most of his clientele are black, so do you think he's following EVERYONE around that comes into his shop? It's possible but we don't know.

That's the other problem with this story is that there's a lot we don't know. The owner claims he has proof she was shoplifting, claims she hit him first, yet all we see is him following her around, kicking her, and then with her in a headlock. He could be lying, but there's a lot of context to this story that's missing and it looks like the news outlet intended to just stoke fires here by leaving a lot of that out.


Let's not get caught up in this particular video; my original point is highlighted above and does
not hinge on whether or not this Black American woman was guilty of shoplifting or the particulars
of this case.

I was hoping that you would do much to explain how the problem with a historical precedence argu-
ment here is that it becomes a "vicious circle" but you don't. If there is a vicious circle regarding
historical precedence as it pertains to the existence and state of many Black Americans, it's the con-
tinued presence of racism towards us and the resulting marginalization and oppression that follows;
and apparently, another component of this vicious circle regarding historical precedence as it pertains
to the existence and state of many Black Americans is the continued apathy or inability of many
white Americans to recognize the aforementioned.

Seems to me that a lot of white folk just think Black Americans are always looking to play the race
card to excuse our lowly status within US society. rolleyes

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Reply #113 posted 03/20/17 7:33pm

Pokeno4Money

avatar

Dasein said:

This is utterly ridiculous.

The fact remains that for many Black Americans, we continue to perceive unfair treatment from
others, including store owners, as a result of racial profiling. So, there's not "absolutely NOTHING
to indicate" that the Korean store owners were motivated by the Black American woman's race
if she's saying she's innocent. In other words, the indication that there was SOMETHING contributing
to his accusation is her skin color because that's what she's claiming: he only confronted her because
he saw her skin color and assumed she was stealing.




There's no doubt in my mind you understand the meaning of the word "perceive". I prefer to deal with reality, not perception. This ain't the Matrix y'all. Fact is, there's absolutely NOTHING to indicate racism was a motivating factor in the shopowner's actions. You assuming the shopowner is racist isn't any different than the shopowner assuming the woman was stealing, if he has no evidence she was shoplifting. My understanding is he does have evidence.

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #114 posted 03/20/17 8:05pm

Pokeno4Money

avatar


Dasein said:Even if Black Americans incorrectly perceive mistreatment and injustice at the hands of white
Americans, the history of the country as it relates to Black Americans suggests that we ought
to be vigilant in our interactions with white Americans. I'll refer back to my sneaker analogy:
even if the white guy who stepped on my sneaker while we were both standing on a bus was
more clumsy than racist, because I am aware of the US' history regarding Black Americans,
I am justified in wondering loudly and vehemently if his "accident" was intentional and based
upon my skin color.

I believe the Black American woman's claims that she was racially profiled because it is aligned
with the historical practices of non-Black Americans towards Black Americans.

So you're saying African Americans should view other races as racist because of the long-ago "history" of some non-blacks being racist.

However, you think it's racist for non-blacks to be scared and cautious of African Americans due to the "history" of frequent violence committed by African Americans.

And you think it's racist for cops to pull over cars with African American occupants due to their "history" of drugs, weapons and outstanding warrants being discovered when they are pulled over.

And you think it's racist for TSA to scrutinize Muslim travelers due to their "history" of terrorism.

And you think it's racist for immigration agents to target Mexicans in Texas and California due to their "history" of illegally entering the United States of America.

So to summarize: In your twisted mind, the entire population of non-blacks shall forever be viewed by African Americans as racist because of "history" ... but yet, non-blacks and law enforcement should completely ignore "history" when dealing with African Americans, Muslims, Mexicans, etc.

So whitey's "history" should always be held against them, but everyone else's "history" has absolutely no relevance whatsoever and therefore should be completely ignored.

You're a classic example of how bias and prejudice trumps reason.



"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #115 posted 03/20/17 8:54pm

phunkdaddy

avatar

SuperFurryAnimal said:

2elijah said:

The store owner went too far. He held her down in a chokehold while another emitter, pulled on her arm at the same time. She was backing away from him, after he kicked her, and he kept going towards her kicking and hitting her. He should have calmed the cops, if she had hit him first. Of course there was no guarantee the cops would have treated her right, especially these days, because of who the woman is, but the store owner took the law in his hands. Reminds me of the Asian man on the NYC subway last week, who kicked a pregnant woman in the stomach on the train, while both were trying to get on the train. Glad they arrested the guy though. I mean kicking a woman? What kind of pussy is that?

If you punch someone in the face that is wearing glasses and break them that is going too far. If I was the store owner I would pack up and move to South Carolina where it is stand your ground and they can place a bullet strategically in someones head next time they pull that shit.

That's Florida. SC has a limited Stand Your Ground law

If I say we ought to it never falls in place
63 is in the lead we need 6 more to win the race.
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Reply #116 posted 03/21/17 3:36am

2elijah

avatar

peedub said:



2elijah said:


peedub said:



fixed that for you. case by case basis...at some point, the past is gonna have to be the past.



Not if racial behavior and actions of the past still exists today.



it hasn't been proven to exist in this case.


It hasn't been proven race wasn't a factor either. Again, the store owner went too far, and admitted that he did. So you will just have to take his word for it since he was the one who had her in a chokehold. Thank goodness he was man enough to admit he did go too far. The woman will apparently deal with the consequences of her actions, but it's not surprising how the usuals here have reacted, because of who the woman is. Just reading some of their reaction about the woman, it's easy to see some are not satisfied that the 'chokehold' wasn't 'enough.' I guess if the store owner shot and killed her, that would have satisfied them. Nothing new 'round here.
[Edited 3/21/17 5:54am]
'Trump voters got Hoodwinked by Trump' popcorn coke
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Reply #117 posted 03/21/17 4:08am

Pokeno4Money

avatar

peedub said:

it hasn't been proven to exist in this case.


That won't stop the morons from ASSuming the shoplifter was treated more harshly because of her race. That's what it's all about, whenever something happens between people of different races then bawl bawl bawl about being a "victim" of racism. Deflection 101.

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #118 posted 03/21/17 6:49am

Dasein

Pokeno4Money said:

Dasein said:

This is utterly ridiculous.

The fact remains that for many Black Americans, we continue to perceive unfair treatment from
others, including store owners, as a result of racial profiling. So, there's not "absolutely NOTHING
to indicate" that the Korean store owners were motivated by the Black American woman's race
if she's saying she's innocent. In other words, the indication that there was SOMETHING contributing
to his accusation is her skin color because that's what she's claiming: he only confronted her because
he saw her skin color and assumed she was stealing.




There's no doubt in my mind you understand the meaning of the word "perceive". I prefer to deal with reality, not perception. This ain't the Matrix y'all. Fact is, there's absolutely NOTHING to indicate racism was a motivating factor in the shopowner's actions. You assuming the shopowner is racist isn't any different than the shopowner assuming the woman was stealing, if he has no evidence she was shoplifting. My understanding is he does have evidence.


I think you are mistaken here; it is your perception, or interpretation, of reality that gives you
any foundation for the attainment of "knowledge", Pokeno. Reality is not just given to you with-
out any filtering on your part. Instead, your previous experiences, your culturalizations, and
other cognitive influences play a part in any phenomenological experience you participate in.
Let's not imagine here that I am confusing "reality" with "perception" which is exactly what you're
doing. In other words, often, and in so many cases, your perception is your reality. So, for ex-
ample: I perceive that people treat me differently on account of my Blackness, so that becomes
how experiences are given to me - they are filtered through my being Black. Some white people
don't have this kind of filtering so they aren't able to identify how many Black Americans have
to function throughout society with our Blackness being primary, whereas for many white people,
they are "just human."

The fact is that her skin color COULD be an indication that racism was a motivating factor if she
was racially profiled by the Korean store owner even if she is guilty of shoplifting. There is his-
torical precedence in this country of Black Americans being racially profiled by a store owner,
accused of stealing, killed during a physically violent confrontation, and then discovered to have
been innocent.

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Reply #119 posted 03/21/17 7:10am

Dasein

Pokeno4Money said:

So you're saying African Americans should view other races as racist because of the long-ago "history" of some non-blacks being racist.


No. I'm saying Black Americans are justified in questioning the motives of non-Black American
members of society, and we are justified in making every issue a race issue because every issue
regarding us in this country is usually about our race.

(2) However, you think it's racist for non-blacks to be scared and cautious of African Americans due to the "history" of frequent violence committed by African Americans.


(3) And you think it's racist for cops to pull over cars with African American occupants due to their "history" of drugs, weapons and outstanding warrants being discovered when they are pulled over.

(4) And you think it's racist for TSA to scrutinize Muslim travelers due to their "history" of terrorism.

(5) And you think it's racist for immigration agents to target Mexicans in Texas and California due to their "history" of illegally entering the United States of America.

(6) So to summarize: In your twisted mind, the entire population of non-blacks shall forever be viewed by African Americans as racist because of "history" ... but yet, non-blacks and law enforcement should completely ignore "history" when dealing with African Americans, Muslims, Mexicans, etc.

(7) So whitey's "history" should always be held against them, but everyone else's "history" has absolutely no relevance whatsoever and therefore should be completely ignored.

You're a classic example of how bias and prejudice trumps reason.




(2) You're playing to a stupid stereotype about Black Americans and erected a strawman argu-
ment.

(3) You're playing to a stupid stereotype about Black Americans and erected a strawman argu-
ment.


(4) You're playing to a stupid stereotype about Muslim Americans and erected a strawman argu-
ment.


(5) You're playing to a stupid stereotype about Mexican Americans and erected a strawman argu-
ment.


(6) You've erected another strawman argument.

(7) . . . and yet another one.


Judging from your response about "perception" and "reality," I don't really think you're quite
equipped to be appropriately engaged in this conversation with me as now you're creating these
arguments you THINK I'm making about Black Americans motorists, drug dealers, and Muslim
Americans and Mexican Americans. Stay on topic, Pokeno, and what is germane to my overarch-
ing point in this thread:

For many Black Americans, because of how history and the present, mind you, informs us that
our Blackness is to our detriment, we are justified in questioning the motives of non-Black Ameri-
cans as a result of our perception of their unjust actions indicating racism even if the actions
perceived are as innocent as clumsiness.


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