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Reply #150 posted 03/20/17 5:29am

purplepoppy

jjhunsecker said:

The people who rail against so-called "identity politics" forget or ignore two salient facts : 1. That people were often forced by a society that REFUSED to see them as individuals (which is what they truly want) and will band together with others of their marginalized group to seek equality and justice. And 2. All sides play "Identity Politics"- not just those perceived as "Leftists". What did Trump and his minions push this election but WHITE CHRISTIAN Identity Politics ??

Thank you. clapping

Brand new boogie without the hero.
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Reply #151 posted 03/20/17 6:19am

djThunderfunk

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

djThunderfunk said:


It's unfortunate that this is how you see the world, but it seems a poor excuse for perpetuating the problem.

How is it "unfortunate" ? Again, I think you are either deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying, or are especially obtuse. I CLEARLY stated that it would be an IDEAL for me for everyone to be seen as an "individual", and to be judged that way. HOWEVER, that is not the reality I've seen, or the reality that I have PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED. I'm not a religious man, but I look at the Bible as a beautiful work of poetry and as a guide, and one of my favorite statements is basically this : do not judge until you've walked a mile in my shoes ...I didn't just read this stuff in book, my friend- I fucking lived it !

And can you refute ANYTHING I've said ?


I've known plenty on the left, the right and in the center who do not play identity politics and see all people as individuals, that's my "personal experience".

I'm not denying that some on the right play the same game, I'm saying it's wrong no matter who does it.

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #152 posted 03/20/17 7:43am

djThunderfunk

avatar

Since this thread has already jumped from topic to topic (the flag, milo, identity politics, etc) in a stream of consciousness style, I'll risk going further "off topic":

I want to use the new Netflix/Marvel show, Iron Fist, as an example.

To recap the "controversy", the show is based on a comic book about a boy (who happens to be white) who is rescued by monks after a plane crash in the Hymalayas in which his parents were killed. The monks train him in the ways of martial arts and eventually he beats out all their other students to become the Iron Fist, a kung fu master with super powers tasked with protecting their mystical city from The Hand (the bad guy ninjas). Because the character is white and trained by asians, triggered SJWs are protesting with buzzwords like cultural appropriation, white saviour, etc, condemning Marvel & Netflix for not changing the hero by making him asian.

To all those that have jumped on this bandwagon, I would ask, Is it not a racist view to insist that any character that is a martial arts master MUST be asian? Because, they all know martial arts, right?

Marvel faced a similar problem with Doctor Strange. The character, The Ancient One is asian in the comics. If they had been true to the source material they would have faced the cultural appropriation claims, if they made the character white they would have been accused of white washing. In this lose/lose scenario the director opted to go with a white woman. There were still some accusations of white washing, but, with the change to female, some of the backlashed was muted.

To bring this back to the meandering topic, I see little difference in this debate on identity politics and the debate over how these characters are being portrayed. Some see racism in the choices Marvel has made, while having rigid guidelines for how asians and relationships between asians and causcasions must be portrayed, while some just see individual characters and take them for what and who they are.

It's the same thing with identity politics. Some see a race as a group and expect them all to believe and behave the same way, labeling those that don't as aberations, while some see everyone as individuals and have no expectations about others based on race.

Just sayin', egalitarianism is a worthy goal. If we all practice it the world will be better off for it.

wink




[Edited 3/20/17 7:46am]

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #153 posted 03/20/17 7:56am

jjhunsecker

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

jjhunsecker said:

How is it "unfortunate" ? Again, I think you are either deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying, or are especially obtuse. I CLEARLY stated that it would be an IDEAL for me for everyone to be seen as an "individual", and to be judged that way. HOWEVER, that is not the reality I've seen, or the reality that I have PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED. I'm not a religious man, but I look at the Bible as a beautiful work of poetry and as a guide, and one of my favorite statements is basically this : do not judge until you've walked a mile in my shoes ...I didn't just read this stuff in book, my friend- I fucking lived it !

And can you refute ANYTHING I've said ?


I've known plenty on the left, the right and in the center who do not play identity politics and see all people as individuals, that's my "personal experience".

I'm not denying that some on the right play the same game, I'm saying it's wrong no matter who does it.

Well, lucky you !

And why is it "wrong" if people have been marganilized or mistreated or discriminated against , for them to band together for advancement ? It seems like you are criticizing the wrong people, and seem to be making a false equivilency between those who are seeking equality (and yes, the right to be seen as an INDIVIDUAL) with those seek to stereotype and marganalize and discriminate AGAINST others based on their characteristics.

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Reply #154 posted 03/20/17 7:57am

jjhunsecker

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

uPtoWnNY said:

Exactly. In their warped minds, black folks who are down with their program are the "good, smart ones".

and yet it is others that use race-based slurs against those that are?

Exhibit A, right here

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Reply #155 posted 03/20/17 8:11am

jjhunsecker

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

Since this thread has already jumped from topic to topic (the flag, milo, identity politics, etc) in a stream of consciousness style, I'll risk going further "off topic":

I want to use the new Netflix/Marvel show, Iron Fist, as an example.

To recap the "controversy", the show is based on a comic book about a boy (who happens to be white) who is rescued by monks after a plane crash in the Hymalayas in which his parents were killed. The monks train him in the ways of martial arts and eventually he beats out all their other students to become the Iron Fist, a kung fu master with super powers tasked with protecting their mystical city from The Hand (the bad guy ninjas). Because the character is white and trained by asians, triggered SJWs are protesting with buzzwords like cultural appropriation, white saviour, etc, condemning Marvel & Netflix for not changing the hero by making him asian.

To all those that have jumped on this bandwagon, I would ask, Is it not a racist view to insist that any character that is a martial arts master MUST be asian? Because, they all know martial arts, right?

Marvel faced a similar problem with Doctor Strange. The character, The Ancient One is asian in the comics. If they had been true to the source material they would have faced the cultural appropriation claims, if they made the character white they would have been accused of white washing. In this lose/lose scenario the director opted to go with a white woman. There were still some accusations of white washing, but, with the change to female, some of the backlashed was muted.

To bring this back to the meandering topic, I see little difference in this debate on identity politics and the debate over how these characters are being portrayed. Some see racism in the choices Marvel has made, while having rigid guidelines for how asians and relationships between asians and causcasions must be portrayed, while some just see individual characters and take them for what and who they are.

It's the same thing with identity politics. Some see a race as a group and expect them all to believe and behave the same way, labeling those that don't as aberations, while some see everyone as individuals and have no expectations about others based on race.

Just sayin', egalitarianism is a worthy goal. If we all practice it the world will be better off for it.

wink




[Edited 3/20/17 7:46am]

Read this, and perhaps see an Asian perspective on these type of issues. Again, try walking a mile in somebody else's shoes ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2...t&_r=0

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Reply #156 posted 03/20/17 8:17am

djThunderfunk

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

djThunderfunk said:


I've known plenty on the left, the right and in the center who do not play identity politics and see all people as individuals, that's my "personal experience".

I'm not denying that some on the right play the same game, I'm saying it's wrong no matter who does it.

Well, lucky you !

And why is it "wrong" if people have been marganilized or mistreated or discriminated against , for them to band together for advancement ? It seems like you are criticizing the wrong people, and seem to be making a false equivilency between those who are seeking equality (and yes, the right to be seen as an INDIVIDUAL) with those seek to stereotype and marganalize and discriminate AGAINST others based on their characteristics.


I don't think you get what I'm saying. It's not wrong for people to band together. I never said that.

What I think is wrong, is assuming all people in a certain demographic are part of that "band" and any that are not are a self-hating aberation.


Like the idea that all black people should be democrats and any black conservative must be an uncle tom. This is not allowing the black person to make that individual choice without proscribing them as something being wrong with them.

I'm not against any group "banding together", I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in the attitude towards members of the group that don't join the band in favor of an individual path.


We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #157 posted 03/20/17 8:21am

djThunderfunk

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

Read this, and perhaps see an Asian perspective on these type of issues. Again, try walking a mile in somebody else's shoes ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2...t&_r=0


You're making my point for me. It is AN Asian perspective, not THE Asian perspective.

Here's a video that features an Asian that does not buy into the cultural appropriation view:




An individual Asian with an individual viewpoint. It's racist to think all Asians will have the same opinion on the subject.








[Edited 3/20/17 8:33am]

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #158 posted 03/20/17 8:27am

RicoN

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

The flag is not racist and America is also the best country on the planet and we will make it great again.

When was America NOT great ??



When it was wiping out the millions of indigenous inhabitants of the land. Whn it was dropping nuclear bombs on Japan.

2 that come to mind!

Yes, I've probably made a spelling mistake, but I can't be arsed to go back and correc tit.
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Reply #159 posted 03/20/17 8:29am

RicoN

avatar

lust said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

The flag is not racist and America is also the best country on the planet and we will make it great again.

So essentially what you're saying is that the best country on the planet isn't great? That's quite a depressing thought for the whole planet really.

"How's everything with your meal sir?"

"Mmm, it's not great to be honest, but all other foods everywhere are worse, I'm sure - not that I've tried them of course"



That's it, the thoughtless repetiton of statements that contradict themselves! confuse

Yes, I've probably made a spelling mistake, but I can't be arsed to go back and correc tit.
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Reply #160 posted 03/20/17 8:36am

jjhunsecker

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

jjhunsecker said:

Read this, and perhaps see an Asian perspective on these type of issues. Again, try walking a mile in somebody else's shoes ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2...t&_r=0


You're making my point for me. It is AN Asian perspective, not THE Asian perspective.

Here's a video that features an Asian that does not buy into the cultural appropriation view:




An individual Asian with an individual viewpoint. It's racist to think all Asians will have the same opinion on the subject.








[Edited 3/20/17 8:33am]

You are correct- it is AN Asian perspective, not how the MAJORITY thinks. But he has a right to his opinion, too

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Reply #161 posted 03/20/17 8:45am

jjhunsecker

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

jjhunsecker said:

Well, lucky you !

And why is it "wrong" if people have been marganilized or mistreated or discriminated against , for them to band together for advancement ? It seems like you are criticizing the wrong people, and seem to be making a false equivilency between those who are seeking equality (and yes, the right to be seen as an INDIVIDUAL) with those seek to stereotype and marganalize and discriminate AGAINST others based on their characteristics.


I don't think you get what I'm saying. It's not wrong for people to band together. I never said that.

What I think is wrong, is assuming all people in a certain demographic are part of that "band" and any that are not are a self-hating aberation.


Like the idea that all black people should be democrats and any black conservative must be an uncle tom. This is not allowing the black person to make that individual choice without proscribing them as something being wrong with them.

I'm not against any group "banding together", I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in the attitude towards members of the group that don't join the band in favor of an individual path.


Again, as I pointed out before, many Blacks are Conservative (especially Caribbean immigrants and Religious folks), so we have nothing against members of our community thinking this way. There is diversity of opinion , which many outsiders don't see or understand. HOWEVER, there ARE people who will take sides against their community because it will benefit them. These people DO exist in all groups, despite what you might want to believe. So we are not against Black "Conservatives" or "Republicans" at all, which is their right to hold their own opinions...we are against those who suck up and attack their own people for their own personal gain. There is a DIFFERENCE

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Reply #162 posted 03/20/17 8:47am

jjhunsecker

avatar

RicoN said:

jjhunsecker said:

When was America NOT great ??



When it was wiping out the millions of indigenous inhabitants of the land. Whn it was dropping nuclear bombs on Japan.

2 that come to mind!

I totally agree

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Reply #163 posted 03/20/17 9:02am

djThunderfunk

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

djThunderfunk said:


I don't think you get what I'm saying. It's not wrong for people to band together. I never said that.

What I think is wrong, is assuming all people in a certain demographic are part of that "band" and any that are not are a self-hating aberation.


Like the idea that all black people should be democrats and any black conservative must be an uncle tom. This is not allowing the black person to make that individual choice without proscribing them as something being wrong with them.

I'm not against any group "banding together", I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in the attitude towards members of the group that don't join the band in favor of an individual path.


Again, as I pointed out before, many Blacks are Conservative (especially Caribbean immigrants and Religious folks), so we have nothing against members of our community thinking this way. There is diversity of opinion , which many outsiders don't see or understand. HOWEVER, there ARE people who will take sides against their community because it will benefit them. These people DO exist in all groups, despite what you might want to believe. So we are not against Black "Conservatives" or "Republicans" at all, which is their right to hold their own opinions...we are against those who suck up and attack their own people for their own personal gain. There is a DIFFERENCE


Of course there is a difference.

But, it's not what I was talking about and unless I missed something (which IS possible) this is the first time in this thread that you've said this also.

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #164 posted 03/20/17 9:09am

jjhunsecker

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

jjhunsecker said:

Again, as I pointed out before, many Blacks are Conservative (especially Caribbean immigrants and Religious folks), so we have nothing against members of our community thinking this way. There is diversity of opinion , which many outsiders don't see or understand. HOWEVER, there ARE people who will take sides against their community because it will benefit them. These people DO exist in all groups, despite what you might want to believe. So we are not against Black "Conservatives" or "Republicans" at all, which is their right to hold their own opinions...we are against those who suck up and attack their own people for their own personal gain. There is a DIFFERENCE


Of course there is a difference.

But, it's not what I was talking about and unless I missed something (which IS possible) this is the first time in this thread that you've said this also.

I-as well as others on this forum- have said this in numerous threads. But when we have attacked or criticized INDIVIDUALS for behaving this way, we were accused of attacking ALL Black Conservatives with so-called "race based slurs" and other absurdities

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Reply #165 posted 03/20/17 9:40am

djThunderfunk

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

djThunderfunk said:


Of course there is a difference.

But, it's not what I was talking about and unless I missed something (which IS possible) this is the first time in this thread that you've said this also.

I-as well as others on this forum- have said this in numerous threads. But when we have attacked or criticized INDIVIDUALS for behaving this way, we were accused of attacking ALL Black Conservatives with so-called "race based slurs" and other absurdities


For the sake of clarity I would ask that we focus on the comments in this specific thread. Otherwise, I'm going to need quotes or links to keep up. wink

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #166 posted 03/20/17 9:46am

purplepoppy

djThunderfunk said:

jjhunsecker said:

Read this, and perhaps see an Asian perspective on these type of issues. Again, try walking a mile in somebody else's shoes ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2...t&_r=0


You're making my point for me. It is AN Asian perspective, not THE Asian perspective.

Here's a video that features an Asian that does not buy into the cultural appropriation view:

An individual Asian with an individual viewpoint. It's racist to think all Asians will have the same opinion on the subject.


Slice & Dice. The point is NOBODY should want to see white people wearing prosthetics in roles where asian actors could be employed. I know some excellent asian actors who struggle getting jobs.

-

White (so they say) people appropriating everything is what creates this ownership monster. Comic books from the 1950s can modernize roles a la HAMILTON, duh. Let us all remember we are conversing on a website dedicated to a Genius Black American Artist.

[Edited 3/20/17 10:20am]

Brand new boogie without the hero.
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Reply #167 posted 03/20/17 10:12am

djThunderfunk

avatar

purplepoppy said:

djThunderfunk said:


You're making my point for me. It is AN Asian perspective, not THE Asian perspective.

Here's a video that features an Asian that does not buy into the cultural appropriation view:




An individual Asian with an individual viewpoint. It's racist to think all Asians will have the same opinion on the subject.



[Edited 3/20/17 8:33am]

Slice & Dice. The point is NOBODY should want to see white people wearing prosthetics in roles where asian actors could be employed. I know some excellent asian actors who struggle getting jobs.


That's one point, and a good one. It's not the point with Iron Fist, however. In this instance there are "white saviour" and "cultural appropriation" complaints.

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #168 posted 03/20/17 11:23am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

You have to bring all people together. You cannot do that with white victimism.

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #169 posted 03/20/17 1:36pm

djThunderfunk

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

You have to bring all people together. You cannot do that with white victimism.


I have no idea how this relates to the flag, milo, identity politics or Marvel's Iron Fist...

Is "white victimism" even a thing? lol lol lol

Time to lockdance this one up... we're waaaay off track. biggrin wink

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #170 posted 03/20/17 2:12pm

djThunderfunk

avatar

I just saw this and thought it relates:

"Right now there's this thing where ethics aren't what they used to be....People are trying to replace the ideas of good and bad with better or worse. And that is incorrect. You gotta keep your ethics intact because good and bad is a compass that helps you find the way. And a person that only does what's better or worse is the easiest type of person to control. They are a mouse in a maze that just finds the cheese. But the one who knows about good and bad will realize that he's in a maze." Dave Chappelle


It's here, about 5min into the video:










[Edited 3/20/17 14:13pm]

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #171 posted 03/20/17 6:12pm

UncleJam

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

Since this thread has already jumped from topic to topic (the flag, milo, identity politics, etc) in a stream of consciousness style, I'll risk going further "off topic":

I want to use the new Netflix/Marvel show, Iron Fist, as an example.

To recap the "controversy", the show is based on a comic book about a boy (who happens to be white) who is rescued by monks after a plane crash in the Hymalayas in which his parents were killed. The monks train him in the ways of martial arts and eventually he beats out all their other students to become the Iron Fist, a kung fu master with super powers tasked with protecting their mystical city from The Hand (the bad guy ninjas). Because the character is white and trained by asians, triggered SJWs are protesting with buzzwords like cultural appropriation, white saviour, etc, condemning Marvel & Netflix for not changing the hero by making him asian.

To all those that have jumped on this bandwagon, I would ask, Is it not a racist view to insist that any character that is a martial arts master MUST be asian? Because, they all know martial arts, right?

Marvel faced a similar problem with Doctor Strange. The character, The Ancient One is asian in the comics. If they had been true to the source material they would have faced the cultural appropriation claims, if they made the character white they would have been accused of white washing. In this lose/lose scenario the director opted to go with a white woman. There were still some accusations of white washing, but, with the change to female, some of the backlashed was muted.

To bring this back to the meandering topic, I see little difference in this debate on identity politics and the debate over how these characters are being portrayed. Some see racism in the choices Marvel has made, while having rigid guidelines for how asians and relationships between asians and causcasions must be portrayed, while some just see individual characters and take them for what and who they are.

It's the same thing with identity politics. Some see a race as a group and expect them all to believe and behave the same way, labeling those that don't as aberations, while some see everyone as individuals and have no expectations about others based on race.

Just sayin', egalitarianism is a worthy goal. If we all practice it the world will be better off for it.

wink




[Edited 3/20/17 7:46am]

Anytime Hollywood makes a character change like that, it's going to cause problems. You can go all the way back to Tarzan. Regardless of their reason, theyre going to get raked over the coals. It's happened for too long...

Make it so, Number One...
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Reply #172 posted 03/20/17 6:18pm

purplepoppy

True. I was bummed when they made Khan a white guy in the new Star Wars movie.

Brand new boogie without the hero.
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Reply #173 posted 03/21/17 1:55am

RicoN

avatar

purplepoppy said:

True. I was bummed when they made Khan a white guy in the new Star Wars movie.



lucky you.

Yes, I've probably made a spelling mistake, but I can't be arsed to go back and correc tit.
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Reply #174 posted 03/21/17 10:54am

uPtoWnNY

djThunderfunk said:

jjhunsecker said:

Again, as I pointed out before, many Blacks are Conservative (especially Caribbean immigrants and Religious folks), so we have nothing against members of our community thinking this way. There is diversity of opinion , which many outsiders don't see or understand. HOWEVER, there ARE people who will take sides against their community because it will benefit them. These people DO exist in all groups, despite what you might want to believe. So we are not against Black "Conservatives" or "Republicans" at all, which is their right to hold their own opinions...we are against those who suck up and attack their own people for their own personal gain. There is a DIFFERENCE


Of course there is a difference.

But, it's not what I was talking about and unless I missed something (which IS possible) this is the first time in this thread that you've said this also.

He's been saying that for years on this forum, but the usual suspects refuse to listen.

As foe Iron Fist "controversy", I'm a big believer in sticking to the source material. Leave Iron Fist as is. I've been a Marvel comics fan since the early 1970s. They've always been ahead of the game when it comes to diversity, so hammering them over this is ridiculous, IMO.

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Reply #175 posted 03/21/17 3:18pm

214

djThunderfunk said:

Since this thread has already jumped from topic to topic (the flag, milo, identity politics, etc) in a stream of consciousness style, I'll risk going further "off topic":

I want to use the new Netflix/Marvel show, Iron Fist, as an example.

To recap the "controversy", the show is based on a comic book about a boy (who happens to be white) who is rescued by monks after a plane crash in the Hymalayas in which his parents were killed. The monks train him in the ways of martial arts and eventually he beats out all their other students to become the Iron Fist, a kung fu master with super powers tasked with protecting their mystical city from The Hand (the bad guy ninjas). Because the character is white and trained by asians, triggered SJWs are protesting with buzzwords like cultural appropriation, white saviour, etc, condemning Marvel & Netflix for not changing the hero by making him asian.

To all those that have jumped on this bandwagon, I would ask, Is it not a racist view to insist that any character that is a martial arts master MUST be asian? Because, they all know martial arts, right?

Marvel faced a similar problem with Doctor Strange. The character, The Ancient One is asian in the comics. If they had been true to the source material they would have faced the cultural appropriation claims, if they made the character white they would have been accused of white washing. In this lose/lose scenario the director opted to go with a white woman. There were still some accusations of white washing, but, with the change to female, some of the backlashed was muted.

To bring this back to the meandering topic, I see little difference in this debate on identity politics and the debate over how these characters are being portrayed. Some see racism in the choices Marvel has made, while having rigid guidelines for how asians and relationships between asians and causcasions must be portrayed, while some just see individual characters and take them for what and who they are.

It's the same thing with identity politics. Some see a race as a group and expect them all to believe and behave the same way, labeling those that don't as aberations, while some see everyone as individuals and have no expectations about others based on race.

Just sayin', egalitarianism is a worthy goal. If we all practice it the world will be better off for it.

wink




[Edited 3/20/17 7:46am]

Great post, very truthful. But everything nowadays is racist based, it's so heavy.

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Reply #176 posted 03/21/17 4:29pm

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Tell em 214.

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #177 posted 03/21/17 4:51pm

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Great Cornel quote:

"Today they call it the race card. Back then we called it fighting for justice." So true.

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #178 posted 03/21/17 6:59pm

214

2freaky4church1 said:

Tell em 214.

I am.

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Reply #179 posted 03/22/17 8:28am

2freaky4church
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Hola

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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