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Reply #30 posted 01/08/17 10:53am

SuperFurryAnim
al

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I'm sorry in advance but I believe they need to change the rules. We need to be able to detain people longer who are supporting ISIS.

I AM AMERICAN. ANTI-COMMUNIST. ANTI-FASCIST.
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Reply #31 posted 01/08/17 11:30am

Empress

OnlyNDaUsa said:



Empress said:


luv4u said:

Brother of airport shooting suspect says FBI knew he was paranoid, hearing voices

http://www.cbc.ca/news/wo...-1.3925871


eek



And even after he had an evaluation they still handed his gun back to him. I just don't understand the mentality of this.


because it is more important to not just deem someone not worth of a basic civil...or really human right... without good cause and full due process.



And look where it lead to. Your laws are fucked up. Thankfully, I'm not an American.
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Reply #32 posted 01/08/17 11:53am

SomeSoldier

Nevermind
[Edited 1/8/17 12:08pm]
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Reply #33 posted 01/08/17 12:21pm

derrick31

maplenpg said:

Pokeno4Money said:


We all wish people could be successfully treated for their mental issues ... and Lord knows there's many, MANY people with mental issues ... but there's only so much that can be done. 1. The FBI sent him to a medical facility for evaluation, what else could they do? Like they said, at the time he had committed no crime so there was no justification to detain him any further. If he was on meds, there's no way to ensure he will continue taking them regularly. 2. And without committing any crimes, who is to say whether someone is mentally unstable? 3. Can you imagine a society where people are locked up for what some think they MIGHT do, rather than what they've done?

No, this situation could have been completely avoided if his right to carry a gun was revoked ... and he absolutely SHOULD HAVE lost that right. TSA screwed up, again.

1. They or someone should have made sure that he went.

2. Many people are diagnosed with mental illness without committing any crimes.

3. I never said he should have been locked up, I said with the correct care he might not have done it in the first place.


I will repeat. I am anti-gun. I completely agree that he should not have had a gun. I'll go further, I don't think most people in the world should be allowed to have a gun. I am European, we manage just fine without guns. In this case though, I think he should have been given help, he clearly had problems.

Pose a threat to me and my family by breaking into my house in the middle of the night and I'll show you the difference between me and a European.

[Edited 1/8/17 12:26pm]

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Reply #34 posted 01/08/17 12:23pm

maplenpg

OnlyNDaUsa said:

maplenpg said:

I am completely anti-gun yet in this case I totally agree. We need to be focusing on mental health issues here and why he wasn't given the correct care when he admitted his thoughts. In my opinion this guy with the right care would not have committed this crime.

I am glad you admit it. I see the right to own guns as one of the most basic and fundamental rights we have as humans. The right to self-defense, to self-preservation, is fundamental. More so that even things like free speech or free religion. I do not have enough faith or trust in any government body to both take care of me or to no take advantage.

And for all those that say "the people could never fight off a standing army..." or whatever: 1) if that is how you want to live cool, 2) if push came to shove and I wanted to try that is my issue. 3) people have done in many many times throughout history. 4) some elements of the military would side with the people.

I also do not want to have to wait for someone else with a gun to come save me... if i owned guns and I was being robbed I would prefer to wait for cops but i would rather have the option of self defence. I rather clean a carpet than be a victim.

without s means of self defence there are no other rights....

I don't know how I can say this any clearer - I am against guns. Full stop. What I said was that I thought mental health was the dominant factor in this case, not the fact that he used a gun.

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Reply #35 posted 01/08/17 12:32pm

SomeSoldier

derrick31 said:



maplenpg said:




Pokeno4Money said:




We all wish people could be successfully treated for their mental issues ... and Lord knows there's many, MANY people with mental issues ... but there's only so much that can be done. 1. The FBI sent him to a medical facility for evaluation, what else could they do? Like they said, at the time he had committed no crime so there was no justification to detain him any further. If he was on meds, there's no way to ensure he will continue taking them regularly. 2. And without committing any crimes, who is to say whether someone is mentally unstable? 3. Can you imagine a society where people are locked up for what some think they MIGHT do, rather than what they've done?

No, this situation could have been completely avoided if his right to carry a gun was revoked ... and he absolutely SHOULD HAVE lost that right. TSA screwed up, again.



1. They or someone should have made sure that he went.



2. Many people are diagnosed with mental illness without committing any crimes.



3. I never said he should have been locked up, I said with the correct care he might not have done it in the first place.




I will repeat. I am anti-gun. I completely agree that he should not have had a gun. I'll go further, I don't think most people in the world should be allowed to have a gun. I am European, we manage just fine without guns. In this case though, I think he should have been given help, he clearly had problems.



Pose a threat to me and my family by breaking into my house in the middle of the night and I'll show you the difference between me and a European.

[Edited 1/8/17 12:26pm]


The difference is that in Europe everyone get out alive because nobody is carrying guns, in your country you and your family are dead.
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Reply #36 posted 01/08/17 1:00pm

Factor1

SomeSoldier said:

derrick31 said:



maplenpg said:




Pokeno4Money said:




We all wish people could be successfully treated for their mental issues ... and Lord knows there's many, MANY people with mental issues ... but there's only so much that can be done. 1. The FBI sent him to a medical facility for evaluation, what else could they do? Like they said, at the time he had committed no crime so there was no justification to detain him any further. If he was on meds, there's no way to ensure he will continue taking them regularly. 2. And without committing any crimes, who is to say whether someone is mentally unstable? 3. Can you imagine a society where people are locked up for what some think they MIGHT do, rather than what they've done?

No, this situation could have been completely avoided if his right to carry a gun was revoked ... and he absolutely SHOULD HAVE lost that right. TSA screwed up, again.



1. They or someone should have made sure that he went.



2. Many people are diagnosed with mental illness without committing any crimes.



3. I never said he should have been locked up, I said with the correct care he might not have done it in the first place.




I will repeat. I am anti-gun. I completely agree that he should not have had a gun. I'll go further, I don't think most people in the world should be allowed to have a gun. I am European, we manage just fine without guns. In this case though, I think he should have been given help, he clearly had problems.



Pose a threat to me and my family by breaking into my house in the middle of the night and I'll show you the difference between me and a European.

[Edited 1/8/17 12:26pm]


The difference is that in Europe everyone get out alive because nobody is carrying guns, in your country you and your family are dead.


If you break into my house with my family home, you aren't going to get out alive. Your intrusion puts my wife and children at risk. I'm not taking a chance of anyone raping or assaulting my wife or kids. That's the difference between an American and a European.
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Reply #37 posted 01/08/17 1:15pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Factor1 said:

SomeSoldier said:
The difference is that in Europe everyone get out alive because nobody is carrying guns, in your country you and your family are dead.
If you break into my house with my family home, you aren't going to get out alive. Your intrusion puts my wife and children at risk. I'm not taking a chance of anyone raping or assaulting my wife or kids. That's the difference between an American and a European.

I am not sure you can argue against the fear-based mentality that it is better for you and your family to be butchered than to have the right to use a gun to defend yourself and your family.

It seems to be one steeped in fear and ignorance that we are safer not being able to own guns. I am glad that I live in a place that allows me the right to used deadly force to protect life, limb, or property. No my 40" outdated, secondhand TV is not worth a human life....but that is a risk the person that tries to steal it takes!

When I have seen people say that the homeowner did not need to shoot their brother because he was just trying to get money for shoes... or other examples of people defending the criminal and saying that if people will not give him money then he has no choice but to rob people.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #38 posted 01/08/17 1:30pm

SomeSoldier

Factor1 said:

SomeSoldier said:


The difference is that in Europe everyone get out alive because nobody is carrying guns, in your country you and your family are dead.


If you break into my house with my family home, you aren't going to get out alive. Your intrusion puts my wife and children at risk. I'm not taking a chance of anyone raping or assaulting my wife or kids. That's the difference between an American and a European.

I am most certainly not planning to break into anyone's house.mbut in a country where there are more guns han people you can rest assured that if I were a criminal wih no regards for human life I'd be sure to have a gun and I'd use it on you first without giving you the chance to even wake up. Which of course is not going to happen because I don't own a gun and I'm not in the habit of breaking into other people's houses. Same applies to Only's answer below yours. The fact that lu may have at gun at home means that whoever breaks into your house will have one themselves and they'll be ready to use it.
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Reply #39 posted 01/08/17 1:40pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

SomeSoldier said:

Factor1 said:
If you break into my house with my family home, you aren't going to get out alive. Your intrusion puts my wife and children at risk. I'm not taking a chance of anyone raping or assaulting my wife or kids. That's the difference between an American and a European.
I am most certainly not planning to break into anyone's house.mbut in a country where there are more guns han people you can rest assured that if I were a criminal wih no regards for human life I'd be sure to have a gun and I'd use it on you first without giving you the chance to even wake up. Which of course is not going to happen because I don't own a gun and I'm not in the habit of breaking into other people's houses. Same applies to Only's answer below yours. The fact that lu may have at gun at home means that whoever breaks into your house will have one themselves and they'll be ready to use it.

doubtful you would try to kill all the people in the house as they slept as opposed to getting in and out with your loot. and you would not even get to the door and I would be woken up by either my dog or other measures i have in place. So there you are trying to kick in my door in *And you would be shocked how much stronger a door is made by $5 worth of stuff.. (longer screws can triple it alone)* and you would not even hear the boom as I shoot you through the door.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #40 posted 01/08/17 1:41pm

2freaky4church
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Note Furry didn't prove himself. Direct evidence says you have exact evidence he was with ISIS. Also, ISIS has to say he is with them. Did they?

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #41 posted 01/08/17 1:42pm

2freaky4church
1

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Only wants terrorists to have guns. He legally carried the gun. He must want dead Americans.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #42 posted 01/08/17 1:44pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

Note Furry didn't prove himself. Direct evidence says you have exact evidence he was with ISIS. Also, ISIS has to say he is with them. Did they?

but that is not even necessary for him to be a self-radicalized Islamic sympathizer terrorist.

it sure seems to be the case that he had sought out that influence... is it not?

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #43 posted 01/08/17 1:48pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

Only wants terrorists to have guns. He legally carried the gun. He must want dead Americans.

I want US persons to have their rights secure until a due process can show they no longer deserve said rights. Maybe you think some rights should be taken away on little more than a whim. I think not.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #44 posted 01/08/17 1:49pm

SomeSoldier

OnlyNDaUsa said:

SomeSoldier said:

Factor1 said: I am most certainly not planning to break into anyone's house.mbut in a country where there are more guns han people you can rest assured that if I were a criminal wih no regards for human life I'd be sure to have a gun and I'd use it on you first without giving you the chance to even wake up. Which of course is not going to happen because I don't own a gun and I'm not in the habit of breaking into other people's houses. Same applies to Only's answer below yours. The fact that lu may have at gun at home means that whoever breaks into your house will have one themselves and they'll be ready to use it.

doubtful you would try to kill all the people in the house as they slept as opposed to getting in and out with your loot. and you would not even get to the door and I would be woken up by either my dog or other measures i have in place. So there you are trying to kick in my door in *And you would be shocked how much stronger a door is made by $5 worth of stuff.. (longer screws can triple it alone)* and you would not even hear the boom as I shoot you through the door.

Ok, maybe you'd win.

But if you lived in Europe you wouldn't need to be that paranoid.

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Reply #45 posted 01/08/17 3:24pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

SomeSoldier said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

doubtful you would try to kill all the people in the house as they slept as opposed to getting in and out with your loot. and you would not even get to the door and I would be woken up by either my dog or other measures i have in place. So there you are trying to kick in my door in *And you would be shocked how much stronger a door is made by $5 worth of stuff.. (longer screws can triple it alone)* and you would not even hear the boom as I shoot you through the door.

Ok, maybe you'd win.

But if you lived in Europe you wouldn't need to be that paranoid.

no paranoia at all. i do not even own guns.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #46 posted 01/09/17 2:34am

Pokeno4Money

avatar

SomeSoldier said:

The difference is that in Europe everyone get out alive because nobody is carrying guns


France-MPS-2009-to-2015.png

And France is 1/5th the size of the US.






[Edited 1/9/17 2:34am]

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #47 posted 01/09/17 2:43am

Pokeno4Money

avatar

SomeSoldier said:

The difference is that in Europe everyone get out alive because nobody is carrying guns


So many examples of shootings in Europe, I'd be here all day if I were to post all of 'em.

Would this guy have been able to run over people for a mile if someone had stopped him with a gun? Absolutely not.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/15/europe/terror-attacks-nice-why-france/


The latest, horrifying at...rench soil was carried out by a man driving a truck in Nice on Thursday.
Hundreds, if not thousands, of people were out in the streets, celebrating Bastille Day with fireworks and a beachfront concert.
After the last firework fizzled, an apparent lone driver in a large white truck first opened fire into the crowd before plowing through horrified tourists and residents along one of the city's main thoroughfares.
Although the road was cordoned off, the man drove for more than a mile along the crowded waterfront before police shot him.
The dead included several children.
No one has claimed responsibility for the attack.



"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #48 posted 01/09/17 3:36am

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

Note Furry didn't prove himself. Direct evidence says you have exact evidence he was with ISIS. Also, ISIS has to say he is with them. Did they?

The evidence is the man that committed the terrorist attack admitted he was an ISIS sympathizer.

I AM AMERICAN. ANTI-COMMUNIST. ANTI-FASCIST.
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Reply #49 posted 01/09/17 6:32am

2freaky4church
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http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article125334334.html

Furry, you need to get help.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #50 posted 01/09/17 6:55am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article125334334.html

Furry, you need to get help.

Weird the first sentence from the story you posted to support that the killer was no an ISIS sympathizer states: "Esteban Santiago told the FBI in Alaska two months ago that he was hearing voices urging him to join an Islamic terrorist group."


How is that proof that he held no sympathizes for ISIS? His apparent failure to connect with any ISIS members is not evidence.


"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #51 posted 01/09/17 7:27am

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

2freaky4church1 said:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article125334334.html

Furry, you need to get help.

Weird the first sentence from the story you posted to support that the killer was no an ISIS sympathizer states: "Esteban Santiago told the FBI in Alaska two months ago that he was hearing voices urging him to join an Islamic terrorist group."


How is that proof that he held no sympathizes for ISIS? His apparent failure to connect with any ISIS members is not evidence.


When ISIS is calling on people to commit such crimes it is right to blame ISIS if people sympathize with them and commit crime. Imagine if in WW2 the Nazi's were calling on people to commit mass shootings in USA and people were going to the gov stating they sympathize with them. Lock them up! Detain them! Instead they want to take away all our rights instead of locking up a few known terrorists.

I AM AMERICAN. ANTI-COMMUNIST. ANTI-FASCIST.
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Reply #52 posted 01/09/17 9:05am

SomeSoldier

Pokeno4Money said:



SomeSoldier said:


The difference is that in Europe everyone get out alive because nobody is carrying guns


France-MPS-2009-to-2015.png

And France is 1/5th the size of the US.






[Edited 1/9/17 2:34am]


You are being dishonest here, as the large majority of those casualties are the result of the horrendous terrorist attacks that France has been targeted with (which is not the topic I was discussing in the post you responded to). Terrorism excluded, how does the number of casualties by gunshot compare in France and the us? Or find the statistics for other European countries, such as Spain or Italy, that have not been targeted by terrorists like France has. On the same topic, how many terrorist attacks have been stopped by a member of the public carrying a gun, in your country or any other? I suspect I know the number, but I'll let you find it yourself. And how does that number compare to the number of people who have been accidentally shot by a member of the public carrying a gun (including people who accidentally killed themselves). And all taken into account, who do you think is more likely to be killed by a gun, you or me?
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Reply #53 posted 01/09/17 9:44am

2freaky4church
1

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I have to inform non believers that we believers do not hear voices.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #54 posted 01/09/17 3:51pm

Factor1

SomeSoldier said:

Pokeno4Money said:



SomeSoldier said:


The difference is that in Europe everyone get out alive because nobody is carrying guns


France-MPS-2009-to-2015.png

And France is 1/5th the size of the US.






[Edited 1/9/17 2:34am]


You are being dishonest here, as the large majority of those casualties are the result of the horrendous terrorist attacks that France has been targeted with (which is not the topic I was discussing in the post you responded to). Terrorism excluded, how does the number of casualties by gunshot compare in France and the us? Or find the statistics for other European countries, such as Spain or Italy, that have not been targeted by terrorists like France has. On the same topic, how many terrorist attacks have been stopped by a member of the public carrying a gun, in your country or any other? I suspect I know the number, but I'll let you find it yourself. And how does that number compare to the number of people who have been accidentally shot by a member of the public carrying a gun (including people who accidentally killed themselves). And all taken into account, who do you think is more likely to be killed by a gun, you or me?


There's nothing dishonest about those statistics. They are mass shootings carried out by terrorists in France. It just goes to show you that criminals will always get guns if they want them regardless of gun laws, whereas law-abiding people are left defenseless.
[Edited 1/10/17 5:58am]
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Reply #55 posted 01/09/17 4:43pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

I have to inform non believers that we believers do not hear voices.

Those that hear voices in the head don't hear them voices in bed. lol

I AM AMERICAN. ANTI-COMMUNIST. ANTI-FASCIST.
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Reply #56 posted 01/10/17 11:22am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

You should be embarrassed.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #57 posted 01/14/17 11:16pm

Pokeno4Money

avatar

SomeSoldier said:

You are being dishonest here, as the large majority of those casualties are the result of the horrendous terrorist attacks that France has been targeted with (which is not the topic I was discussing in the post you responded to). Terrorism excluded, how does the number of casualties by gunshot compare in France and the us? Or find the statistics for other European countries, such as Spain or Italy, that have not been targeted by terrorists like France has. On the same topic, how many terrorist attacks have been stopped by a member of the public carrying a gun, in your country or any other? I suspect I know the number, but I'll let you find it yourself. And how does that number compare to the number of people who have been accidentally shot by a member of the public carrying a gun (including people who accidentally killed themselves). And all taken into account, who do you think is more likely to be killed by a gun, you or me?


You are the one being dishonest. I specifically replied to your statement that "in Europe nobody is carrying guns". That is total bullshit.

Sticking to France:

"Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/16/frances-real-gun-problem/?utm_term=.b5709bf196d1

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #58 posted 01/15/17 10:35am

2freaky4church
1

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They treat their immigrant youth like shit.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #59 posted 01/15/17 5:14pm

Pokeno4Money

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

They treat their immigrant youth like shit.


We have enough problems in the states, I won't comment on social issues in France.

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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