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Forums > Politics & Religion > ‘I shot dad’: The tragic case of a child who killed his abusive, neo-Nazi father
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Thread started 08/27/16 1:02pm

OldFriends4Sal
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‘I shot dad’: The tragic case of a child who killed his abusive, neo-Nazi father

We need to hear more stories of the children of racists who reject(in different fashions) their parents racist ideologies. I feel for the 10yr old, and his punishment for his age and situation doesn't seem just.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/%e2%80%98i-shot-dad%e2%80%99-the-tragic-case-of-a-child-who-killed-his-abusive-neo-nazi-father/ar-BBw5jpB?li=BBnb2gg

In this 2010 photo, Jeffrey Hall holds a neo-Nazi flag near his home in Riverside, Calif.

© Sandy Huffaker/Associated Press In this 2010 photo, Jeffrey Hall holds a neo-Nazi flag near his home in Riverside, Calif.

Jeffrey Hall was unequivocal about what he wanted.

“I want a white nation,” he once told the Los Angeles Times. “I don’t hide what I am, and I don’t water that down.”

An unemployed plumber who used to patrol the U.S.-Mexico border looking for illegal immigrants, Hall was a rising star among white supremacists.

He would often speak at rallies, promoting the goals of the National Socialist Movement, the largest neo-Nazi organization in the country, with 46 chapters in 20 states. In a YouTube video of a 2009 anti-immigration rally in Southern California, Hall, the National Socialist Movement’s regional director there, is seen holding a megaphone with a smiling Hitler emoji sticker on it as he proclaims the need for “white immigration” and a “pro-white” America.

But Hall’s rise in the movement ended abruptly. He died in May 2011, when he was shot at point-blank range while sleeping on his living room couch.

The killer — in a shocking twist — was his 10-year-old son, Joseph, a troubled boy whose childhood was fraught with violence perpetrated by his father.

As the oldest of Hall’s children, Joseph, it seemed, was first in line to get a glimpse of his father’s activities, including shooting guns and patrolling the Mexican border for illegal immigrants. But Joseph also bore the brunt of Hall’s violent outbursts.

On May 1, 2011, hours after a meeting of the neo-Nazi group at Hall’s house in Southern California, the boy took his father’s revolver from the upstairs bedroom where his stepmother was sleeping.

Joseph fired a bullet into his father’s head, just behind his father’s left ear.

As his 32-year-old father lay lifeless in a pool of blood, Joseph admitted what he had done.

“I shot dad,” he told his stepmother, according to court records.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #1 posted 08/27/16 1:54pm

2elijah

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All it takes is one to be influenced. Just like Dylan Roof. That kid that shot his dad was in defense of the mental and physical abuse from his father

It is clear he tried to force that hate on his son, and became the victim of his own hate. A lesson to be learned for those who are members of hate groups like that, and teach that type of hatred to their kids.
[Edited 9/5/16 3:30am]
FEARLESS
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Reply #2 posted 08/28/16 12:55am

jjhunsecker

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Let's raise a toast to that son...

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Reply #3 posted 08/28/16 10:33am

2freaky4church
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Good for him.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #4 posted 08/28/16 11:05am

2freaky4church
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Dwayne Wade's sister got shot dead. sad.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #5 posted 08/28/16 6:32pm

214

What he did was right, let's hope that motherfucker finds no mercy wherever he is

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Reply #6 posted 08/29/16 3:40am

2elijah

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2freaky4church1 said:

Dwayne Wade's sister got shot dead. sad.


Not his sister. It was his cousin who was killed in a crossfire and they caught the guys. Although very sad, that incident is not part of the title of this thread.
FEARLESS
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Reply #7 posted 08/29/16 3:43am

mordang

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Wow. There are a lot of supporters of murder here. Just shows how arbitrary they are considering the use of deadly violence towards terrorists.

I realy don't care about the sick bastard, btw. Good riddance. I'm not arbitrary about it.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
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Reply #8 posted 08/29/16 10:26pm

TonyVanDam

Joseph Hall is a hero [IMHO] because his father Jeffery was a racist and a white supremacist that knew nothing but hatred toward all non-white people. And to make matters worse, Jeffery was physically AND psychologically abusing his kids, including Joseph.

Yes, Joseph murder his own father. But it was an act of self-defense and an act of defending his siblings who could not defend themselves.

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Reply #9 posted 08/30/16 8:45am

jjhunsecker

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mordang said:

Wow. There are a lot of supporters of murder here. Just shows how arbitrary they are considering the use of deadly violence towards terrorists.

I realy don't care about the sick bastard, btw. Good riddance. I'm not arbitrary about it.

There is nothing wrong with murder as long as you murder the right people. The world is a better place with this man gone

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Reply #10 posted 08/30/16 9:03am

2freaky4church
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Why is this thread so popular? ug

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #11 posted 08/30/16 5:01pm

214

jjhunsecker said:

mordang said:

Wow. There are a lot of supporters of murder here. Just shows how arbitrary they are considering the use of deadly violence towards terrorists.

I realy don't care about the sick bastard, btw. Good riddance. I'm not arbitrary about it.

There is nothing wrong with murder as long as you murder the right people. The world is a better place with this man gone

You got it, kill the ones who deserve it.

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Reply #12 posted 08/31/16 3:37am

mordang

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jjhunsecker said:

mordang said:

Wow. There are a lot of supporters of murder here. Just shows how arbitrary they are considering the use of deadly violence towards terrorists.

I realy don't care about the sick bastard, btw. Good riddance. I'm not arbitrary about it.

There is nothing wrong with murder as long as you murder the right people. The world is a better place with this man gone

So...who is going to determine who are the right people? Facists had the same thoughts.

In this reasoning it is ok to kill non-believers if a person is believer of a religion that instructs him to kill them. He murders the right people and the world (AS THAT PERSON SEES IT) is a better place.

The view is that you hold here is extreme, dangerous and terrifying for those who don't have the same views as you.

Judge, jury and executioner.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
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Reply #13 posted 08/31/16 10:43am

maplenpg

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mordang said:

jjhunsecker said:

There is nothing wrong with murder as long as you murder the right people. The world is a better place with this man gone

So...who is going to determine who are the right people? Facists had the same thoughts.

In this reasoning it is ok to kill non-believers if a person is believer of a religion that instructs him to kill them. He murders the right people and the world (AS THAT PERSON SEES IT) is a better place.

The view is that you hold here is extreme, dangerous and terrifying for those who don't have the same views as you.

Judge, jury and executioner.

yeahthat I find jjhunsecker's post spine-chilling. I imagine Islamic State (or insert any other extremists) say, 'There is nothing wrong with murder as long as you murder the right people. The world is now a better place' following the murder of innocent people who don't subscribe to their beliefs. Despite this man's abhorrent views, we cannot make his son some kind of hero - he was age 10 FFS.

[Edited 8/31/16 10:49am]

If love is the answer, what was the question? - Carter USM.
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Reply #14 posted 08/31/16 2:21pm

214

jjhunsecker said:

mordang said:

Wow. There are a lot of supporters of murder here. Just shows how arbitrary they are considering the use of deadly violence towards terrorists.

I realy don't care about the sick bastard, btw. Good riddance. I'm not arbitrary about it.

There is nothing wrong with murder as long as you murder the right people. The world is a better place with this man gone

I'm with you, you and should impose a dictatorship to make this world a better place

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Reply #15 posted 08/31/16 2:24pm

2freaky4church
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214, remember our Hitler kerfuffle?

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #16 posted 08/31/16 2:50pm

jjhunsecker

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maplenpg said:

mordang said:

So...who is going to determine who are the right people? Facists had the same thoughts.

In this reasoning it is ok to kill non-believers if a person is believer of a religion that instructs him to kill them. He murders the right people and the world (AS THAT PERSON SEES IT) is a better place.

The view is that you hold here is extreme, dangerous and terrifying for those who don't have the same views as you.

Judge, jury and executioner.

yeahthat I find jjhunsecker's post spine-chilling. I imagine Islamic State (or insert any other extremists) say, 'There is nothing wrong with murder as long as you murder the right people. The world is now a better place' following the murder of innocent people who don't subscribe to their beliefs. Despite this man's abhorrent views, we cannot make his son some kind of hero - he was age 10 FFS.

[Edited 8/31/16 10:49am]

His son did the world a favor...he was an abusive violent man and the world is a better place without him. He deserved to die because of his ACTIONS...That is a lot different from religious fanatics (or anybody) targeting innocent people because of their BELIEFS

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Reply #17 posted 08/31/16 5:04pm

214

2freaky4church1 said:

214, remember our Hitler kerfuffle?

What, sorry me not understand.

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Reply #18 posted 09/03/16 2:46pm

NorthC

jjhunsecker said:



mordang said:


Wow. There are a lot of supporters of murder here. Just shows how arbitrary they are considering the use of deadly violence towards terrorists.



I realy don't care about the sick bastard, btw. Good riddance. I'm not arbitrary about it.




There is nothing wrong with murder as long as you murder the right people. The world is a better place with this man gone


Right. That's how Stalin thought. And Lenin. And Pol Pot. And Osama. And George Bush. And Mao. And Hitler. And Franco. And Mobutu. And Mengistu. And Idi Amin. And Mugabe. And Pinochet. Need I go on?
Never try to discourage thinking, for you are sure to succeed.
Bertrand Russell
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Reply #19 posted 09/03/16 10:00pm

jjhunsecker

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NorthC said:

jjhunsecker said:

There is nothing wrong with murder as long as you murder the right people. The world is a better place with this man gone

Right. That's how Stalin thought. And Lenin. And Pol Pot. And Osama. And George Bush. And Mao. And Hitler. And Franco. And Mobutu. And Mengistu. And Idi Amin. And Mugabe. And Pinochet. Need I go on?

Please look 2 posts up. I clearly state that these determinations shouuld be based on people's ACTIONS, not their BELIEFS. And incidentally, would have been wrong for any the individuals you mention to be murdered , based on their actions ?

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Reply #20 posted 09/04/16 2:37am

NorthC

Osama was murdered and it didn't stop terrorism.
Never try to discourage thinking, for you are sure to succeed.
Bertrand Russell
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Reply #21 posted 09/04/16 8:58am

benni

What people are overlooking is the abuse this child endured, the violence he witnessed towards his mother and his siblings. He didn't kill him because of his beliefs. He didn't kill him because he was a neo-Nazi father, he killed him because he saw no other way out. Who could he go to, to get help? Who could he turn to? His mom was just as much a victim as he was. His dad's friends weren't going to step in and help, they thought the man was great. There is no telling how many years he lived with the pain and heartache of being abused, of feeling unloved, of feeling unworthy, of possibly even blaming himself for the abuse his mother and siblings endured. When you live in that kind of environment and you see no way out, you are left with one of two choices 1. take your own life or 2. if you see yourself as the protector of your mom and your siblings, take the life of the one that is causing the pain. I speak from experience. I actually wrote about it in my book. There but by the Grace of God, go I.

Edited to add: This kid should not have been given a sentence of 10 years in juvie. He should have been given therapy instead, along with his siblings and his mom.

[Edited 9/4/16 9:03am]

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Reply #22 posted 09/04/16 1:28pm

214

NorthC said:

jjhunsecker said:

There is nothing wrong with murder as long as you murder the right people. The world is a better place with this man gone

Right. That's how Stalin thought. And Lenin. And Pol Pot. And Osama. And George Bush. And Mao. And Hitler. And Franco. And Mobutu. And Mengistu. And Idi Amin. And Mugabe. And Pinochet. Need I go on?

Please don't you dare to mention the Great Stalin here, he did what was needed to be done at that time.

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Reply #23 posted 09/04/16 2:08pm

NorthC

214 said:



NorthC said:


jjhunsecker said:



There is nothing wrong with murder as long as you murder the right people. The world is a better place with this man gone



Right. That's how Stalin thought. And Lenin. And Pol Pot. And Osama. And George Bush. And Mao. And Hitler. And Franco. And Mobutu. And Mengistu. And Idi Amin. And Mugabe. And Pinochet. Need I go on?

Please don't you dare to mention the Great Stalin here, he did what was needed to be done at that time.


Es una broma, si?
Never try to discourage thinking, for you are sure to succeed.
Bertrand Russell
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Reply #24 posted 09/04/16 3:02pm

214

NorthC said:

214 said:

Please don't you dare to mention the Great Stalin here, he did what was needed to be done at that time.

Es una broma, si?

Si eso tranquiliza tu mente y coraz'on, así es,

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Reply #25 posted 09/04/16 10:13pm

jjhunsecker

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benni said:

What people are overlooking is the abuse this child endured, the violence he witnessed towards his mother and his siblings. He didn't kill him because of his beliefs. He didn't kill him because he was a neo-Nazi father, he killed him because he saw no other way out. Who could he go to, to get help? Who could he turn to? His mom was just as much a victim as he was. His dad's friends weren't going to step in and help, they thought the man was great. There is no telling how many years he lived with the pain and heartache of being abused, of feeling unloved, of feeling unworthy, of possibly even blaming himself for the abuse his mother and siblings endured. When you live in that kind of environment and you see no way out, you are left with one of two choices 1. take your own life or 2. if you see yourself as the protector of your mom and your siblings, take the life of the one that is causing the pain. I speak from experience. I actually wrote about it in my book. There but by the Grace of God, go I.

Edited to add: This kid should not have been given a sentence of 10 years in juvie. He should have been given therapy instead, along with his siblings and his mom.

[Edited 9/4/16 9:03am]

That was my point as well. This man deserved it because of his ACTIONS (even though his BELIEFS were also reprehensible)

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Reply #26 posted 09/04/16 10:47pm

benni

jjhunsecker said:

benni said:

What people are overlooking is the abuse this child endured, the violence he witnessed towards his mother and his siblings. He didn't kill him because of his beliefs. He didn't kill him because he was a neo-Nazi father, he killed him because he saw no other way out. Who could he go to, to get help? Who could he turn to? His mom was just as much a victim as he was. His dad's friends weren't going to step in and help, they thought the man was great. There is no telling how many years he lived with the pain and heartache of being abused, of feeling unloved, of feeling unworthy, of possibly even blaming himself for the abuse his mother and siblings endured. When you live in that kind of environment and you see no way out, you are left with one of two choices 1. take your own life or 2. if you see yourself as the protector of your mom and your siblings, take the life of the one that is causing the pain. I speak from experience. I actually wrote about it in my book. There but by the Grace of God, go I.

Edited to add: This kid should not have been given a sentence of 10 years in juvie. He should have been given therapy instead, along with his siblings and his mom.

[Edited 9/4/16 9:03am]

That was my point as well. This man deserved it because of his ACTIONS (even though his BELIEFS were also reprehensible)


I'm not saying he deserved it. The man should have been tried and sentenced by a judge and jury. If we start taking the stance that someone deserves to be murdered because of their actions, then we become no better than the person we claim deserves to be murdered because we are condoning a violent act and a taking of a life. I mean, with that kind of thinking, we can just decide that our cheating spouse deserves to be killed because of their actions and the pain they put us through. Or that someone we got into a fight with at a bar because that person acted aggressively against us. Our legal system isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but we cannot take the law into our hands and act as judge, jury, and executioner.

I am in no way stating that this was a good man, he wasn't, which is obvious in the way he treated his wife and children and his belief systems. My point was that the kid felt like he had no other way out of the situation. I've been there. I almost made the same decision, only I was 8 years old at the time. I know exactly where this kid was coming from, and he did not deserve the sentence he received. As a kid, we don't have the mental capacity to understand what we are actually doing in that situation, we only know the pain has to stop.

As an adult, looking back, I can say that I know now what the ramifications almost were for me, and know now that the best way for it to have been handled would have been in a court of law. But, when you don't think you have any other way out and your back is against the wall, and you believe you can be killed at any time, or someone close to you killed, and you don't believe anyone will ever help you, save you or those you love, you really only see the two options. That kid has a long road ahead of him, a very difficult road. My heart goes out to him. He will have to live with this the rest of his life, knowing he took a life. Regardless of what the situation was, regardless of the depth of his pain, as he grows up and begins to understand the full ramifications of what he has done, it will become extremely difficult for him to deal with.




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Reply #27 posted 09/04/16 10:58pm

jjhunsecker

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benni said:

jjhunsecker said:

That was my point as well. This man deserved it because of his ACTIONS (even though his BELIEFS were also reprehensible)


I'm not saying he deserved it. The man should have been tried and sentenced by a judge and jury. If we start taking the stance that someone deserves to be murdered because of their actions, then we become no better than the person we claim deserves to be murdered because we are condoning a violent act and a taking of a life. I mean, with that kind of thinking, we can just decide that our cheating spouse deserves to be killed because of their actions and the pain they put us through. Or that someone we got into a fight with at a bar because that person acted aggressively against us. Our legal system isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but we cannot take the law into our hands and act as judge, jury, and executioner.

I am in no way stating that this was a good man, he wasn't, which is obvious in the way he treated his wife and children and his belief systems. My point was that the kid felt like he had no other way out of the situation. I've been there. I almost made the same decision, only I was 8 years old at the time. I know exactly where this kid was coming from, and he did not deserve the sentence he received. As a kid, we don't have the mental capacity to understand what we are actually doing in that situation, we only know the pain has to stop.

As an adult, looking back, I can say that I know now what the ramifications almost were for me, and know now that the best way for it to have been handled would have been in a court of law. But, when you don't think you have any other way out and your back is against the wall, and you believe you can be killed at any time, or someone close to you killed, and you don't believe anyone will ever help you, save you or those you love, you really only see the two options. That kid has a long road ahead of him, a very difficult road. My heart goes out to him. He will have to live with this the rest of his life, knowing he took a life. Regardless of what the situation was, regardless of the depth of his pain, as he grows up and begins to understand the full ramifications of what he has done, it will become extremely difficult for him to deal with.




Don't get me wrong. I am not advocating vigilante justice. I believe in the necessity of due process of law. However, in this case, I truly hope the last thoughts this reprehensible man had as his life slipped away was of the evil and hurt he inflicted on his family, and probably others as well...

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Reply #28 posted 09/04/16 11:47pm

benni

jjhunsecker said:






Don't get me wrong. I am not advocating vigilante justice. I believe in the necessity of due process of law. However, in this case, I truly hope the last thoughts this reprehensible man had as his life slipped away was of the evil and hurt he inflicted on his family, and probably others as well...


He didn't. He was asleep. Shot behind the ear, I'm thinking he probably died immediately.

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Reply #29 posted 09/05/16 12:54am

NorthC

214 said:



NorthC said:


214 said:


Please don't you dare to mention the Great Stalin here, he did what was needed to be done at that time.



Es una broma, si?

Si eso tranquiliza tu mente y coraz'on, así es,


Muy bien.
Never try to discourage thinking, for you are sure to succeed.
Bertrand Russell
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