URL: http://prince.org/msg/105/383000
Date printed: Fri 20th Apr 2018 6:54pm PDT
Author | Message |
10 Problems on their Way via Obamacare This article was a bit misplaced in my opinion, but the points are still legitimate. Although I did know that a large percentage of Doctors are planning an exit from the industry once Obamacare hits, I was unfamiliar with some of the other points.
http://www.nationalreview...rie-turner
True genius is knowing how little
you really know. |
I love how NONE of this is source (minus the poll at the end, just proves how sucessful Republican's fear and hate rhetoric worked on Americans) and is purely ad-hominem [Edited 6/18/12 11:55am] "The voter is less important than the man who provides money to the candidate," - Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens
Rudedog ![]() |
none of it will matter in a few days. Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them. |
I have a short attention span, but I will try and get back to this thread later when I google the 10 claims listed. |
Once again, if you think any doctor is going to give up the only thing he knows - the profession for which he went to school for 8 years, did 3 years' residency, and then spent years establishing a practice - if you think any doctor is going to give up that hard-earned livelihood (his only livelihood in most cases) because he isn't going to make as much money as he used to, well then I have some oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to show you. P&R's paladin |
Lions and tigers and bears, oh my. Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. |
You don't understand the profession.
I have had conversations with 2 different doctors who are in that 46%. There are other areas they can work where they don't have to deal with all the headaches that are going to comprise their profession.
You don't understand the issue. It's not the lack of money. Doctors can recoup that income in other ways. It's about the headaches and hurdles that come with endless regulation. True genius is knowing how little
you really know. |
I guess I could have used sources like you do. Any "out there" website you get some oped off of. True genius is knowing how little
you really know. |
And btw.....
The Kaiser Foundation was one source. By using the links in the post, you can access the actual report..... True genius is knowing how little
you really know. |
The Compromise Theory:
Based on my analysis, I believe the government faked the plane crash and demolished the WTC North Tower with explosives. The South Tower, in a simultaneous but unrelated plot was brought down by actual terrorists. Is it a deal? |
You said they were going to "exit the industry". If they leave medicine altogether, what industry is next for them? Plumbing?
You either misspoke, or exaggerated your claim.
I am 100% confident that there will not be a mass exodus of doctors leaving the only industry for which they are trained. Will some retire? Sure. But quit?
Nope. P&R's paladin |
So what is the solution to many Americans not being able to afford healthcare and going into debt over it?
I would like a viable solution if you are going to shoot down what the current president has to offer. [Edited 6/19/12 5:45am] |
utter shite
like a large percentage of US citizens would leave the US if Bush got relected?
just talking loud and saying nothing.
noone is gonna flush their education down the toilet and go to pump gas at the station instead. if you believe those shitters, you're even more naive than I thought.
actually, no, I take that back. you are exactly as naive as I thought. The Compromise Theory:
Based on my analysis, I believe the government faked the plane crash and demolished the WTC North Tower with explosives. The South Tower, in a simultaneous but unrelated plot was brought down by actual terrorists. Is it a deal? |
I can't wait until someone is willing to stand up to the insurance companies, they are just as corrupt as the banks.
That is a big part of the problem. I have worked in the healthcare/medical billing area for years and seeing what these insurance companies charge for medicine and procedures is a HUGE problem.
The dr I was seeing decided to code a visit as a well visit because she could charge the insurance company $300. Turns out the insurance I had at the time did not cover well visits. I went to see her for stomach issues. I ended up paying the dr for the visit and disputing it with the insurance company. They had to request medical records from drs office with after 6 months they still have not rec'd them. So I am out the money, the dr got paid, the insurance company got their $600 a month from me and my stomach is worse than ever.
Yes, I would like to see some sort of reform. The drs are learning to work the system to take care of themselves, the insurance companies have been working the system for a long time.
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No one likes to see any system they have figured out and can manipulate and defraud be changed. But no worries, as soon as Obamacare goes in effect, there may be some teething pains, but the same folks making out like bandits now, will figure it out. Greed and corruption is innate to us. It's a natural part of the human condition, we have good and bad in us. We can't change that. We can only mitigate the bad we do.
I think the trick is to do the same as with the flu vaccine. Modify policy each year, ever so slightly based on surveillance-based forecasts about what viruses tactics are most likely to cause illness be used screw people in the coming season. People are smart, if we work long enough on anything we figure out a way fuck it no matter what safeguards are in place. Complacency is our biggest enemy.
[Edited 6/19/12 7:16am] |
HA!! I think it's safe to assume from your statement that you never look at sources, even mine. But why bother right? Right wing unsourced links are WAY more factual than sourced ones. "The voter is less important than the man who provides money to the candidate," - Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens
Rudedog ![]() |
Wait wait wait, you talked to TWO doctors and from that you say "large percentage of Doctors are planning an exit from the industry once Obamacare hits". HA! I know ppl are full of shit when they start their argument with the straw man.... 'i know' and provide no evidence other than they knowing a couple of ppl that they've talked to. Oh yeah...that's factual. "The voter is less important than the man who provides money to the candidate," - Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens
Rudedog ![]() |
10 points and you have one source, congradulations! "The voter is less important than the man who provides money to the candidate," - Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens
Rudedog ![]() |
again with this nacy pelosi-esk idea that we can not know what is in it until we pass it... we cannot be critical of it until it is in full effect? even when obama himself admitted lowing cost was a lie as he said we always knew it would raise the costs!
when the idea of death panels was mentioned what's her name was attacked! yet it is in the law! onaba himself said that 'we' should be able to decide based on cost if a person is valuable enough to provide option A or B. Now did I paraphrase? hell yeah! but that was his message. (and he also said obama care was not good enough for himself or his family! just for you and yours) Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them. |
"The voter is less important than the man who provides money to the candidate," - Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens
Rudedog ![]() |
it is used in every heath care plan... every single one. if you are too old or too sick you WILL get denied. Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them. |
Okay, so there must be no old ppl in Canada, Germany, Japan, Netherlands, Honk Kong.....COOL!!!! Is this something 'you heard'? "The voter is less important than the man who provides money to the candidate," - Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens
Rudedog ![]() |
We'll just have to see then. I'll gladly concede if I am wrong.
i am going on multiple conversations with multiple medical providers; my personal doctor included.
There are areas they can provide medical care, privately, without having to do so in the general, medical market. True genius is knowing how little
you really know. |
There absolutely needs to be changes to how healthcare is deployed in this country. I agree with that.
What do you guys say about the fact that the Healthcare Bill's false premise of debt reduction has already been realized under the governments own budgetary rules? What was sold to the American public as a viable option was bogus.
There were a total of 13 other bills offered up during the healthcare debate with alternative measures.......the democratic house and senate would not allow debate on 1 of them other than Obamacare....so much for transparency.
Obamacare is a Health INSURANCE bill, not a healthcare bill. It's like putting a new battery in a car that is out of gas, and expecting it to run; it doesn't address the problem.
The problem with our healthcare system is cost of care. If you only deal with how individuals are insured without addressing more poignantly the cost of the care, than you are going to run into a bankrupt government.
All insurance is is liability coverage. If that liability (cost of care) increases, than the cost of insurance increases. The cost of insurance cannot keep up with the cost of care, so there will ALWAYS be a gap in our current system. The more the government tries to cover, the more they are going to have to tax us..... True genius is knowing how little
you really know. |
I listed 1 for you. That's not all there were..... True genius is knowing how little
you really know. |
There will ALWAYS be a gap as long as insurance companies are reaping huge profits. Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. |
source? last I heard they were pretty thin. Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them. |
Great, but that wouldn't be "exiting the industry", would it? That would just be changing jobs within the same industry (assuming the practice of medicine is the industry). P&R's paladin |
What those who oppose "Obamacare" want is basically nothing - they simply don't care about anybody else, and if they get sick and die, too fucking bad, they should have earned more money to take care of themselves. "I ain't gonna help some lazy slacking muthafuckas...." |
that is just totally untrue..there is nothing at all that is true about any of that. it is so far from any factual basis as to be almost hateful. No one thinks that.
Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them. |
The solution is outright universal health care, where people are taxed and everyone gets decent healthcare. It works in other countries and the people in those countries are healthier, have lower infant mortality rates, and live longer than in the US. |
Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them. |
That works in SOME socialist countries, but it cannot with our current economic structure. Sorry. That's like saying a coffee maker will work great under the hood of a car.
There are also other countries with more socialized healthcare, that are having to regress.
Canada and UK both are having to go more and more privatized with their healthcare. Why would we want to go through the same cycle they are going through? True genius is knowing how little
you really know. |
I don't know whether or not lifestyle factors are taken into account, but some of the countries that I've looked at have diets that are considered not that great by US standards, like France (high fat) for example. Perhaps you can find data that takes those factors into account. Nevertheless, here are some figures that I got from CIA World Factbook website (https://www.cia.gov/libra...index.html). I picked countries that I know to have "socialized" medicine. Pay attention to the percentage of GDP that each country pays towards healthcare.
UK Death rate: 9.33/1000 Infant Mortality: 4.56/1000 Life Expectancy: Male - 78.08 Female - 82.4 Num. of Physicians: 2.739/1000 Healthcare Expenditures per GDP: 9.3%
France Death rate: 8.85/1000 Infant Mortality: 3.37/1000 Life Expectancy: Male - 78.35 Female - 84.73 Num. of Physicians: 3.4/1000 Healthcare Expenditures per GDP: 3.5%
Norway Death rate: 9.22/1000 Infant Mortality: 3.5/1000 Life Expectancy: Male - 77.65 Female - 83.14 Num. of Physicians: 4.076/1000 Healthcare Expenditures per GDP: 9.7%
Sweden Death rate: 10.21/1000 Infant Mortality: 2.74/1000 Life Expectancy: Male - 78.86 Female - 83.63 Num. of Physicians: 3.583/1000 Healthcare Expenditures per GDP: 9.9%
Canada Death rate: 8.09/1000 Infant Mortality: 4.85/1000 Life Expectancy: Male - 78.89 Female - 84.21 Num. of Physicians: 1.913/1000 Healthcare Expenditures per GDP: 10.9%
US Death rate: 8.39/1000 Infant Mortality: 5.98/1000 Life Expectancy: Male - 76.05 Female - 81.05 Num. of Physicians: 2.672/1000 Healthcare Expenditures per GDP: 16.2%
The US has the 2nd highest healthcare expenditures out of 189 countries. Malta has the highest and Mexico has the 3rd highest. (https://www.cia.gov/libra...5rank.html) [Edited 6/21/12 15:11pm] |
Why can't it work here? What about all of the other countries that have successful univeral healthcare?
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Because we have big pharma and big insurance that will fight tooth and nail to make sure it wont work here. Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. |
Employers can outsource the jobs and pay less of the new tax. You better Watch Out! I'm a WAR MACHINE! |
That's another reason to have individual citizens to pay the tax. Corporations can be taxed but not based upon the number of employees - for example a flat 3%, 4% or whatever of net profits or something along those lines. |
The problem is whenever anyone in America mentions universal healthcare the word socialism comes up. Stupid Americans still believe that Obama is a Muslim so they are not going to understand that if we had univeral healthcare that we wouldn't make us a socialist country. It comes down to fear as usual. Keep Americans afraid, and tell them that they will lose their freedom if every American had healthcare. Who gives a shit about all of the Americans that die everyday because they do not have healthcare.
I have lived in the US and the UK, I know about universal healthcare and I know about the crap healthcare system in the US. Until ppl start to care about someone other than themselves, we will never have a healthcare system that works.
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what is scary is how so many think that just because it will help people that it should be upheld!
or how people actualy say the republicans are against people having health care... or that the have no ideas or that they want people to die....
Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them. |
Too bad all of the above are true......That's what is really scary. Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. |
and my point is proven! [Edited 6/24/12 8:37am] Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them. |
Or not. Republicans ARE against people having healthcare. Republicans have NO ideas. Republicans WANT people to die. And MY point is proven! Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. |
13cjk13 said:
Or not. Republicans ARE against people having healthcare. Republicans have NO ideas. Republicans WANT people to die. And MY point is proven! Okay. Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them. |
Okay. Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. |
And OK by me. I haven't heard anything from Only, or any so-called conservative for that matter, about what should be done about healthcare, and about the uninsured. Remember, what they call "Obamacare" is essentially the REPUBLICANS plan from the 1990s in opposition to the Clintons' heathcare initiatives. But now that Obama proposes the same ideas, the obsessive Barack haters see it as some sort of socialist commie plot. Not to mention that Mitt the Magic Underwearer imposed this same system in Massachusetts. But all he needs to say is "I was for it then, but I'm against it now", and the saps just buy that and eat it up |
I wish the ppl that had the powers to make decisions about healthcare were ppl that actually had to worry about thier healthcare.
Real citizens that struggle with paying for their healthcare and ones that are going in debt and losing their homes due to the debt from healthcare.
Healthcare is a basic need. If we continue to have citizens struggling and losing their homes because of the problems within our healthcare system, it is only going to add strains to our ecomomy. I guess the rich don't care about the middle class and the poor.
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The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president . Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. |
And that is the root of the whole problem. I find it ironic that a country that claims to be a Christian nation does not have basic compassion for the next person, as is the foundation of Jesus' teachings. Yet, countries that, from the perspective of some, are "godless", show more love and compassion for their fellow man. |
I agree! just like kerry wanted for bush... it is all about November. Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them. |
The SINGLE, MOST IMPORTANT THING.....not the economy, not jobs, not immigration, not the war......cool. Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. |
that fails as the other party will always think it has the better answers to all those issues. just like you did in 2004. you wanted bush out of office over all that stuff because you thought kerry would be better.
Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them. |
Because insurance companies and health care plans have none of that, just the government. BS . . . . I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. |
It's not about solutions. It's merely shooting down what the current president has to offer.
I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. |
But why aren't you screaming at insurance companies and health care providers who make profit now doing exactly that?!!!! The government can't have a death panel but your insurer can keep theirs?!!! You make no sense complaining that the government wants to act like the insurance company you hold as sacred. I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. |
They can do that as doctors now and even with a single payer system. They don't have to leave the system, they can just NOT take government money. Fewer patients, less paperwork. What's not to like? I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. |
What does transparency have to do with what is voted on or debated? IF there were 13 other bills, everyone in Congress received a copy of it. Nothing hidden. Do you really watch committee hearings on bills? Who airs them and when? I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. |
Oh, so this is not about refusing to take care of fellow Americans? Just about how we pay to do so? So why are you opposed to a single payer system? Because more people would have healthcare? I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. |
Source? Britain is beefing up its NHS but also trying to control costs. Congress won't let the Federal government negotiate to control costs. I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. |
If you don't know why I find it funny . . . . . . think about it. I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. |
Oops. Wouldn't want to be caught helping someone in need would we? I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. |
I actually WORKED in the healthcare industry,at a very large insurance company. If you had any idea what went on there in the industry , people would be BEGGING for a single payer system !! There's no way that could be worse than what already exists... I will leave it at that [Edited 6/28/12 13:25pm] |
It's all about the "undeserving" poor- you know, the "welfare queens in Cadillacs" and the "strapping bucks buying filet mignon with food stamps" that St. Ronnie Reagan used to talk about. We don't WANT any of THOSE people getting healthcare they didn't "pay for", now do we ??? |
i used to work in an IR (investor relations as opposed to public relations) firm that represented pharmaceutical development companies, and it was some of the most disgusting and unmitigated greed and money wasting i had ever seen... and i also previously worked at halliburton.
people should be begging for single payer system
. [Edited 6/28/12 12:28pm] "The fascist of the future will call themselves anti fascists." - Ignazio Silone "RESIST FASCISM. VOTE TRUMP." - Drumpf supporters |
The difference is that Kerry was actually a declared candidate, running against Bush for Bush's job.
The GOP publicly instituted their version of that philosophy the very first day Obama took the job, before they even had any candidates. It wasn't a candidate-vs-candidate situation - it was an entire-party-vs-one-man deal.
But you knew that. P&R's paladin |
I don't get it.
Shouldn't the cost of health care be plummeting now that Republican sponsored tort reforms have been implemented in so many places? It was a key promise they made in Florida ages ago when they got it approved.
Well, there's always the possibility there's no correlation, or the assumption Universal coverage will bring it up is just false and baseless. |
Tort reform has absolutely NOTHING to do with the cost of health care. It only affects how much money a doctor makes.
We've had tort reform in Texas for more than 10 years. It hasn't affected our insurance premiums one iota.
The reason is that tort reform makes it harder to sue your doctor, which means he has less lawsuits to defend, which means his insurance company pays less to defend him.
Therefore, the doctor's malpractice costs go down. But that's where it ends.
The doctor does NOT pass those savings to his patients. The insurance company does NOT pass those savings on to individual policy holders.
Both entities retain the savings, therefore making more money.
It's great for them. It's meaningless for the rest of us. It's devastating for those injured by medical malpractice. P&R's paladin |
I used to work in clinical research, the company I worked for got paid by pharmaceutical companies. There is so much greed with the drug manufacturing industry. Insurance companies and drug companies have been making out big time. I just paid $124 for a bottle of nasal spray for my sinus infection. I have health insurance, if I didn't I would have had to pay $165. Someone is making a huge profit and it isn't me! I lived in the UK and NEVER saw ONE ad for prescription medications. It was wonderful! This country needs to get their priorities in order! |
i so :heart: you "The fascist of the future will call themselves anti fascists." - Ignazio Silone "RESIST FASCISM. VOTE TRUMP." - Drumpf supporters |
Yeah, I was being facetious.
My point was that the idea that Obamacare will cause healthcare prices to spike is probably just as trustworthy as Republican predictions that tort reform would cap rising healthcare prices. I doubt that it will.
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Sorry, just felt the need to get in on the love. I love all of you btw.
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"The fascist of the future will call themselves anti fascists." - Ignazio Silone "RESIST FASCISM. VOTE TRUMP." - Drumpf supporters |
"The fascist of the future will call themselves anti fascists." - Ignazio Silone "RESIST FASCISM. VOTE TRUMP." - Drumpf supporters |
P&R's paladin |
Oh, I knew that! I just wanted to make sure I stayed on your poo list.
It's the only list I'm on!
P&R's paladin |
MORE LIES. Here is the truth:
"Do you really know what love is?" |
^ P&R's paladin |
Thank you Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. |
I don't fully understand the "Obamacare" debacle, but from what little I DO know...it mandates that insurance companies spend AT LEAST 80% of the premium money on actual HEALTHCARE as opposed to "administration costs".
THAT RIGHT THERE is a positive first step. Our premiums should be going towards doctors & hospitals, not executives at the insurance companies.
I will leave off with this little "food for thought"...
WHAT GOOD IS IT TO HAVE THE WORLD'S BEST HEALTHCARE IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD IT????
I cannot afford it currently. I have Emblem Comprehealth (formerly HIP) because it's the only policy that my company offers that I can AFFORD. AND it's a P.O.S.
The list of doctors is so limited that it's laughable. I recently sought out a specialist...only three within a 20 mile radius...1 of those retired, the other 2 never returned my calls. So now I have to decide whether or not it's worth it to drive 30 or 40 miles out for someone that I need to pay a $50 co-pay at each visit (would be $200/month). Or look into natural remedies.
My kids need to go to a pediatrician...only three available within a normal driving radius FOR A PRIMARY CARE PROFESSIONAL. One is in the ghetto, the other two have horrible office hours. If I could afford to go back to Blue Cross then they could have their old pediatricians, who were awesome. But I can't. So we deal with substandard care.
So to all the pundits who are trying to scare me into thinking that our glorious healthcare system is going to suddenly go to pot b/c of Obama....
It's already crap...unless you're either wealthy or are lucky to work for a big company that contributes generously to your policy.
By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory! |
URL: http://prince.org/msg/105/383000
Date printed: Fri 20th Apr 2018 6:54pm PDT