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Thread started 06/13/12 7:00pm

V10LETBLUES

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"Gay Man Gene" Carried By Women

I am not sure what to think of this "study", but apparently men are attracted to women. And reproduce. Furthermore, women who have many children are apparently more likely to have gay children, and thus supposedly possess a yet unidentified gay gene.

via Medical Daily and all over the net including Hufpo

http://www.medicaldaily.c...lution.htm

Male homosexuality is inborn and may be triggered by a gene carried by mothers, new findings suggest.

Evolutionarily speaking, homosexuality as a trait would not last because it discourages reproductive sex with women and therefore procreation.

However a new study, published in The J...l Medicine, found a correlation between gay men and their mothers and maternal aunts, who are prone to have significantly more children compared to the maternal relatives of straight men.

Researchers led by Andrea Camperio Ciani, from the University of Padova in Italy, say that the findings of the link between homosexuality and female fertility strongly support the "balancing selection hypothesis," which suggests that a gene which causes homosexuality also leads to high fecundity or reproduction among their female relatives.

The team noted that the "gay man gene" may not get passed down directly, but instead survive through the generations through future generations making their male inheritors gay.

Researchers analyzed the personality and fecundity of 61 females who were either mothers or maternal aunts of homosexual men to 100 females who were mothers or aunts of heterosexual men.

Originally the team thought the reason why women who inherited the "gay man gene" might have more babies is simply because it increased androphilia, or attraction to men, thus making the male inheritors homosexual and the female inheritors more promiscuous.

However, after analyzing the personal characteristics of 161 female maternal relatives of homosexual and heterosexual men, researchers changed their hypothesis and suggested that rather than making the women more attracted to men and therefore more promiscuous, the "gay man gene" appears to make female inheritors more attractive to men.

"High fecundity, that means having more babies, is not about pleasure in sex, nor is it about promiscuity. The androphilic pattern that we found is about females who increase their reproductive value to attract the best males," Camperio Ciani told Life's Little Mysteries.

The team found that the gene appeared to make women more fertile, have fewer gynecological disorders and fewer pregnancy complications. The findings also suggest that gene led to women who were funnier, happier, more extroverted and more relaxed, leading them to have fewer family problems and social anxieties.

"If sexually antagonistic genetic factors that induce homosexuality in males exist, the factors might be maintained in the population by contributing to increased fecundity greater reproductive health, extraversion, and a generally relaxed attitude toward family and social values in females of the maternal line of homosexual men," researchers wrote.

Published by Medicaldaily.com

[Edited 6/13/12 19:18pm]

innocent “To understand is to stand under which is to look up to which is a good way to understand.”
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Reply #1 posted 06/13/12 7:13pm

SUPRMAN

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The 'gay' gene seems to make women more attractive to women. That favors women because those women can be much more selective. They aren't worried about getting a man. Being pickier should result in better quality genes to reproduce. The fact that these women who are relatives of gay men are having more children offsets gay men not having children.

So nature has found a way to compensate for homosexuality which means it isn't going to disappear anytime soon. Regardless of what we do.

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Reply #2 posted 06/13/12 7:28pm

V10LETBLUES

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SUPRMAN said:

The 'gay' gene seems to make women more attractive to women. That favors women because those women can be much more selective. They aren't worried about getting a man. Being pickier should result in better quality genes to reproduce. The fact that these women who are relatives of gay men are having more children offsets gay men not having children.

So nature has found a way to compensate for homosexuality which means it isn't going to disappear anytime soon. Regardless of what we do.

I just found this study kind of silly becasue of the obvious "women attractive to men" thing. And the "genes" passed down part, while kinda obvious too, is still unfounded and could be becasue of other factors such as environment or god knows what.


[Edited 6/13/12 19:30pm]

innocent “To understand is to stand under which is to look up to which is a good way to understand.”
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Reply #3 posted 06/13/12 7:34pm

SUPRMAN

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V10LETBLUES said:

SUPRMAN said:

The 'gay' gene seems to make women more attractive to women. That favors women because those women can be much more selective. They aren't worried about getting a man. Being pickier should result in better quality genes to reproduce. The fact that these women who are relatives of gay men are having more children offsets gay men not having children.

So nature has found a way to compensate for homosexuality which means it isn't going to disappear anytime soon. Regardless of what we do.

I just found this study kind of silly becasue of the obvious "women attractive to men" thing. And the "genes" passed down part, while kinda obvious, is till unfounded and could be becasue of other factors such as environment or god knows what.


[Edited 6/13/12 19:29pm]

I think the study in pretty convincing in that it is genetic not evironmental or social.

If there were other factors, the genetic pattern should not hold.

The 'women attractive to men' is not silly. It differentiates the level of attraction which is significant enough to be measurable. Men are not attracted to all women equally. Which is where the advantage in genetic attraction bears fruit, so to speak.

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Reply #4 posted 06/13/12 8:36pm

V10LETBLUES

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SUPRMAN said:

V10LETBLUES said:

I just found this study kind of silly becasue of the obvious "women attractive to men" thing. And the "genes" passed down part, while kinda obvious, is till unfounded and could be becasue of other factors such as environment or god knows what.


[Edited 6/13/12 19:29pm]

I think the study in pretty convincing in that it is genetic not evironmental or social.

If there were other factors, the genetic pattern should not hold.

The 'women attractive to men' is not silly. It differentiates the level of attraction which is significant enough to be measurable. Men are not attracted to all women equally. Which is where the advantage in genetic attraction bears fruit, so to speak.

Yeah, I know what you mean, but is any of this new? I mean this would have been my guess too and I have no background in science. To top it off there doesn't seem to be anything concrete regarding the gene theory.

I think it's obvious that's it's all biological, gayness, straightness, sexually confused, all of it.

If you think about sex in the abstract, it's all kinda strange, male to female, male to male, female to female. There is some innate biological factor to get us into ridiculous poses and into trouble becasue of sex. It's one hell of a driving emotion. I think pleasure is only one part of it.


[Edited 6/13/12 21:13pm]

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Reply #5 posted 06/13/12 9:29pm

aardvark15

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hmmm so what I'm getting is women who have or can have more children have higher chance of hetting a gay son or daughter? I'm not really good with reading science articles lol . Well if what I'm thinking is correct that does make a lot of since considering my grandma had 7 kids on my moms side and my great grandmother had like a billion lol

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Reply #6 posted 06/14/12 2:59am

beatriceau

aardvark15 said:

hmmm so what I'm getting is women who have or can have more children have higher chance of hetting a gay son or daughter? I'm not really good with reading science articles lol . Well if what I'm thinking is correct that does make a lot of since considering my grandma had 7 kids on my moms side and my great grandmother had like a billion lol



Yep that's basically what it's saying!
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Reply #7 posted 06/14/12 10:50am

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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This is interesting. When I did my family tree for my Masters Program in Spiritual Psychology, I realized that only the women in my family are having kids. There is only one male cousin who has kids, the rest of us have never had children, not even through accidental pregnancy. And me, well.... lol

.

[Edited 6/14/12 11:49am]

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Reply #8 posted 06/14/12 11:08am

OnlyNDaUsa

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

This is interesting. When I did my family tree for my Masters Program in Spiritual Psychology, I realized that only the women in my family are having kids. There is only one cousin who has kids, the rest of us have never had children, not even through accidental pregnancy. And me, well.... lol

that is weird! only the woman in my family have ever had kids too!

my mom did not make me gay... she made me socially dysfunctional!

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Reply #9 posted 06/14/12 6:52pm

SUPRMAN

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

This is interesting. When I did my family tree for my Masters Program in Spiritual Psychology, I realized that only the women in my family are having kids. There is only one cousin who has kids, the rest of us have never had children, not even through accidental pregnancy. And me, well.... lol

that is weird! only the woman in my family have ever had kids too!

my mom did not make me gay... she made me socially dysfunctional!

lurking

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Reply #10 posted 06/14/12 7:32pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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SUPRMAN said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

that is weird! only the woman in my family have ever had kids too!

my mom did not make me gay... she made me socially dysfunctional!

lurking

lol

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Reply #11 posted 06/14/12 8:19pm

luv4u

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

This is interesting. When I did my family tree for my Masters Program in Spiritual Psychology, I realized that only the women in my family are having kids. There is only one male cousin who has kids, the rest of us have never had children, not even through accidental pregnancy. And me, well.... lol

.

[Edited 6/14/12 11:49am]

I know you would make a good father if you ever decide to adopt one day cool

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Reply #12 posted 06/15/12 9:54am

HotGritz

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Wow they keep reaching and reaching and still can't find an answer. Nobody knows why anyone is born gay and who cares anyway? What matters is that we are born healthy, loved and cared for and raised to be good/upstanding and ethical citizens. I mean we don't know what causes autisim. We don't know why a family would have twins with one being deaf and the other being of normal hearing. Speaking of twins, I've never thought there was a gay gene because if there were then you would have gay twins but more often than not, one twin would be straight and the other gay or both would be straight.

Another thing that bothers me is that when I first started reading various studies about what determined homosexuality, initially they put it on the father then they put it on the mother then they put it on aunts and uncles - all these various genetic contributors. Then I've read stories about it being some hormonal imbalance in the womb, a deformed Y chormosome, and I've even read that it had something to do with fathers consuming large amounts of alchohol throughout their lives which supposedly would contribute to either a gay offspring or lack of male offspring. I tell you the theories are endless. One thing though, nobody seems to be all that interested in why WOMEN are gay. I don't recall ever reading a study where they focused on female homosexuality or even transgendered men (those born female who opt for surgery and hormones to look like men).

One thing I have observed is that family size is irrelevant. I've known people who were only children and they were gay and I've had friends who came from family sizes of 7 or more and not a gay kid in the bunch. Plus, what about gay women who have straight kids? Why didn't the kid come out gay if the gene is carried by women?

Honestly, we shouldn't want to know why someone's gay because if there was ever a genetic or hormonal component trust and believe people would try and get rid of it. What if a couple goes in for some genetic testing and the doc says "this fetus posesses a gay genetic marker, would you like to proceed with the pregnancy?" The couple might opt for abortion. geek In the film Gattaca, people were genetically engineered to be smarter, stronger and faster. There was a scene where a woman had her mouth swabbed after kissing a man because she wanted to know if his saliva dictated him to be a superior specimen with which to breed with. A couple in the film had two sons, one genetically altered and the other conceived the old fashioned way. The genetically altered kid grew taller faster and excelled in school while the non-genetically altered son had health problems. Incidentally, there were no gay characters in this movie.

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Reply #13 posted 06/15/12 9:56am

HotGritz

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aardvark15 said:

hmmm so what I'm getting is women who have or can have more children have higher chance of hetting a gay son or daughter? I'm not really good with reading science articles lol . Well if what I'm thinking is correct that does make a lot of since considering my grandma had 7 kids on my moms side and my great grandmother had like a billion lol

So its your people's fault we're overpopulated. lol

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
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Reply #14 posted 06/15/12 5:40pm

SUPRMAN

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HotGritz said:

Wow they keep reaching and reaching and still can't find an answer. Nobody knows why anyone is born gay and who cares anyway? What matters is that we are born healthy, loved and cared for and raised to be good/upstanding and ethical citizens. I mean we don't know what causes autisim. We don't know why a family would have twins with one being deaf and the other being of normal hearing. Speaking of twins, I've never thought there was a gay gene because if there were then you would have gay twins but more often than not, one twin would be straight and the other gay or both would be straight.

Another thing that bothers me is that when I first started reading various studies about what determined homosexuality, initially they put it on the father then they put it on the mother then they put it on aunts and uncles - all these various genetic contributors. Then I've read stories about it being some hormonal imbalance in the womb, a deformed Y chormosome, and I've even read that it had something to do with fathers consuming large amounts of alchohol throughout their lives which supposedly would contribute to either a gay offspring or lack of male offspring. I tell you the theories are endless. One thing though, nobody seems to be all that interested in why WOMEN are gay. I don't recall ever reading a study where they focused on female homosexuality or even transgendered men (those born female who opt for surgery and hormones to look like men).

One thing I have observed is that family size is irrelevant. I've known people who were only children and they were gay and I've had friends who came from family sizes of 7 or more and not a gay kid in the bunch. Plus, what about gay women who have straight kids? Why didn't the kid come out gay if the gene is carried by women?

Honestly, we shouldn't want to know why someone's gay because if there was ever a genetic or hormonal component trust and believe people would try and get rid of it. What if a couple goes in for some genetic testing and the doc says "this fetus posesses a gay genetic marker, would you like to proceed with the pregnancy?" The couple might opt for abortion. geek In the film Gattaca, people were genetically engineered to be smarter, stronger and faster. There was a scene where a woman had her mouth swabbed after kissing a man because she wanted to know if his saliva dictated him to be a superior specimen with which to breed with. A couple in the film had two sons, one genetically altered and the other conceived the old fashioned way. The genetically altered kid grew taller faster and excelled in school while the non-genetically altered son had health problems. Incidentally, there were no gay characters in this movie.

There are gay twins. I've met several sets.

You don't know that there were no gay characters in Gattaca. Gay men and women present across the spectrum. I think there may have been a gay character in the movie. But it was never mentioned as such.

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Reply #15 posted 06/15/12 5:56pm

aardvark15

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HotGritz said:

aardvark15 said:

hmmm so what I'm getting is women who have or can have more children have higher chance of hetting a gay son or daughter? I'm not really good with reading science articles lol . Well if what I'm thinking is correct that does make a lot of since considering my grandma had 7 kids on my moms side and my great grandmother had like a billion lol

So its your people's fault we're overpopulated. lol

She got married like 5 times and had severak kids with each husband eek

"Do Me, Baby...oh, oh, OOOOOOOOOOOH"
"Scandalous I'm talkin' bout u n me"
"Insatiable's my name when it comes 2 u"
"When 2 R N Love their bodies shiver at the mere contemplation of penetration"
"Flesh against flesh, And God Created Woman"
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Reply #16 posted 06/18/12 3:37pm

HotGritz

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SUPRMAN said:

HotGritz said:

Wow they keep reaching and reaching and still can't find an answer. Nobody knows why anyone is born gay and who cares anyway? What matters is that we are born healthy, loved and cared for and raised to be good/upstanding and ethical citizens. I mean we don't know what causes autisim. We don't know why a family would have twins with one being deaf and the other being of normal hearing. Speaking of twins, I've never thought there was a gay gene because if there were then you would have gay twins but more often than not, one twin would be straight and the other gay or both would be straight.

Another thing that bothers me is that when I first started reading various studies about what determined homosexuality, initially they put it on the father then they put it on the mother then they put it on aunts and uncles - all these various genetic contributors. Then I've read stories about it being some hormonal imbalance in the womb, a deformed Y chormosome, and I've even read that it had something to do with fathers consuming large amounts of alchohol throughout their lives which supposedly would contribute to either a gay offspring or lack of male offspring. I tell you the theories are endless. One thing though, nobody seems to be all that interested in why WOMEN are gay. I don't recall ever reading a study where they focused on female homosexuality or even transgendered men (those born female who opt for surgery and hormones to look like men).

One thing I have observed is that family size is irrelevant. I've known people who were only children and they were gay and I've had friends who came from family sizes of 7 or more and not a gay kid in the bunch. Plus, what about gay women who have straight kids? Why didn't the kid come out gay if the gene is carried by women?

Honestly, we shouldn't want to know why someone's gay because if there was ever a genetic or hormonal component trust and believe people would try and get rid of it. What if a couple goes in for some genetic testing and the doc says "this fetus posesses a gay genetic marker, would you like to proceed with the pregnancy?" The couple might opt for abortion. geek In the film Gattaca, people were genetically engineered to be smarter, stronger and faster. There was a scene where a woman had her mouth swabbed after kissing a man because she wanted to know if his saliva dictated him to be a superior specimen with which to breed with. A couple in the film had two sons, one genetically altered and the other conceived the old fashioned way. The genetically altered kid grew taller faster and excelled in school while the non-genetically altered son had health problems. Incidentally, there were no gay characters in this movie.

There are gay twins. I've met several sets.

You don't know that there were no gay characters in Gattaca. Gay men and women present across the spectrum. I think there may have been a gay character in the movie. But it was never mentioned as such.

I never said there weren't gay twins I said that if it was genetic both twins would be gay because they share the same DNA (talking identical twins here not fraternal).

Also, I saw the Gattaca film and nope, none of the characters were identified as gay and I don't even recall background characters engaging in any stereotypical gay behavior. That's not to say any actors starring in the film weren't gay.

geek

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
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Reply #17 posted 06/19/12 12:46am

imago

God, I wish they'd hurry up and find that damn gene so the process of dismantling this silly ass "it's a choice" defense to defend discrmination can be dismissed once and for all.

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Reply #18 posted 06/19/12 8:13am

OnlyNDaUsa

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imago said:

God, I wish they'd hurry up and find that damn gene so the process of dismantling this silly ass "it's a choice" defense to defend discrmination can be dismissed once and for all.

but with that will come treating it and selective abortions.

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Reply #19 posted 06/19/12 8:20am

OnlyNDaUsa

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HotGritz said:


I never said there weren't gay twins I said that if it was genetic both twins would be gay because they share the same DNA (talking identical twins here not fraternal).

:

i would think it was way more complex that that:

the gene may just give them a disposition to be gay. also given the pressure to not be gay one twin could lie to himself and not act on his true desire. you can not know a person is gay based on who they sleep with.

also look at things like cancer: you can have a gene tha puts you at risk to get it and

never get it. So if a pair of identical twins had such a gene one could get it and the other may not.

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Reply #20 posted 06/19/12 5:40pm

SUPRMAN

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

HotGritz said:

I never said there weren't gay twins I said that if it was genetic both twins would be gay because they share the same DNA (talking identical twins here not fraternal).

:

i would think it was way more complex that that:

the gene may just give them a disposition to be gay. also given the pressure to not be gay one twin could lie to himself and not act on his true desire. you can not know a person is gay based on who they sleep with.

also look at things like cancer: you can have a gene tha puts you at risk to get it and

never get it. So if a pair of identical twins had such a gene one could get it and the other may not.

They would both have it being identical twins. The questions would be is it expressive in one and not the other and why?

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #21 posted 06/19/12 7:01pm

V10LETBLUES

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Lesbianism & Genetics

http://www.huffingtonpost...97148.html

By: Natalie Wolchover
Published: 06/14/2012 12:02 PM EDT on Lifes Little Mysteries

Straight women are much more likely to get themselves knocked up than gay women. So, in terms of evolution, they would seem to have a better chance of passing on their genes, while at the same time it would seem that the genes that make women gay would quickly vanish from the gene pool. This raises the question, why are there gay women?

Lesbianism is indeed at least 25 percent genetic, as determined by a 2011 study of twins conducted in the United Kingdom. The study found that identical twin sisters (who share 100 percent of their DNA) are more likely to both be lesbians than are fraternal twin sisters (who share just 50 percent), proving that, all other environmental factors being equal, genes matter. While scientists have a theory for how male homosexuality propagates from one generation to the next, no one has yet produced a viable explanation for how the genes that promote lesbianism might do the same. [Why Are There Gay Men?]

A female's sexual orientation also appears to be partly influenced by her level of exposure to the male sex hormone androgen when she is in the womb. Greater hormone exposure correlates with more gender nonconformity early in her life (as a child, she may be called a "tomboy"), as well as a same-sex orientation later on. A study by Dutch psychologists published in the March issue of the Journal of Sexual Medicine reported that 10 to 12 percent of male and female children who feel discomfort with their gender go on to identify as gay or lesbian as adults. Meanwhile, just 1 or 2 percent of children who are comfortable with their gender identity turn out to be gay or lesbian.

Adding to the confusion about what causes lesbianism is the slipperiness of female sexuality itself. Unlike men, who are usually sexually oriented solely toward men or women, and whose sexuality is essentially fixed from puberty on, a decade of research by the University of Utah psychologist Lisa Diamond and others demonstrates that women have greater "erotic plasticity." Their sexual orientation can be shaped by cultural influences, altered by positive or negative experiences and intensified by feelings of love or attachment. Women are far more likely than men to "report remarkably late and abrupt onset of same-sex sexuality, often after heterosexual marriage," Diamond wrote in January in the Archives of Sexual Behavior.

Their sexual fluidity may emerge from the fact that, across the board, women are sexually aroused by images of both men and women (while men are typically only aroused by members of their preferred sex).

Therefore, the question "why are there gay women?" may be better worded as "why is female sexuality so fluid?" Plenty of women exist at both extremes of the straight-gay spectrum, but it is the formation of this slippery spectrum itself that most needs explaining. Evolutionary biologists have yet to determine what survival or reproductive benefit women's "erotic plasticity" confers.

innocent “To understand is to stand under which is to look up to which is a good way to understand.”
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Reply #22 posted 06/19/12 7:21pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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SUPRMAN said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

i would think it was way more complex that that:

the gene may just give them a disposition to be gay. also given the pressure to not be gay one twin could lie to himself and not act on his true desire. you can not know a person is gay based on who they sleep with.

also look at things like cancer: you can have a gene tha puts you at risk to get it and

never get it. So if a pair of identical twins had such a gene one could get it and the other may not.

They would both have it being identical twins. The questions would be is it expressive in one and not the other and why?

the IT in question was Cancer... i see my error. But as you say: it may or may no manifest in both even if both have the gene.

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Reply #23 posted 06/19/12 10:11pm

vainandy

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SUPRMAN said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

i would think it was way more complex that that:

the gene may just give them a disposition to be gay. also given the pressure to not be gay one twin could lie to himself and not act on his true desire. you can not know a person is gay based on who they sleep with.

also look at things like cancer: you can have a gene tha puts you at risk to get it and

never get it. So if a pair of identical twins had such a gene one could get it and the other may not.

They would both have it being identical twins. The questions would be is it expressive in one and not the other and why?

I've known two sets of identical twins. One set, both of them were gay. However, I knew another set and one of them was gay and the other was straight. The funny thing was, the gay one was in the closet with his family and some of the guys he had been with would see his straight brother in public and think he was the gay one they had been with. They would walk up and put their arm around him and he'd be all eek . falloff

Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #24 posted 06/29/12 10:00pm

imago

OnlyNDaUsa said:

imago said:

God, I wish they'd hurry up and find that damn gene so the process of dismantling this silly ass "it's a choice" defense to defend discrmination can be dismissed once and for all.

but with that will come treating it and selective abortions.

There are plenty of homosexuals out there who would agree to gene therapy if it worked, just to have a 'straight' life. So, I don't think that's a problem, so long as it's a personal choice.

As far as selective abortions, that's not a good defense against to keep the "it's a choice" argument.

There are plenty of racists out there who only cling to the notion that abortion should be legal in case you get raped by "some black guy"--I've actually heard these words before.

But, one's motivaions for selective abortions is part of a whole other ball of twine, and I'm not an ethusiastic abortion supporter anyway. Becoming pregnant is the vast majority of time, the result of the person's actions--their choice. Being born gay is not.

So to clarify my muddled response lol

1. Treating it: That's an individual's choice

2. Selective Abortions: Does not deter me from my stance.

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