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Reply #60 posted 10/19/10 1:52pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

BombSquad said:

NevermindAlexzander said:

Did you ask him "Who or What?" made the cells and the dirt?

you can't have somthing from nothing.

really? so then God can't exist, cause he can't come from nothing, thanks for making that clear.

what? you claim (I assume...) that God ALWAYS existed?

great. then I can make the same claim for "dirt", or the universe itself

"dirt always existed". see, that was easy.

my claim is just as valid as saying "God always existed". actually not really, my claim is MUCH MORE VALID than yours, because dirt (and the universe) has been observed to exist. but God has not.

sorry, Dirt beats God 1:0

[Edited 10/19/10 0:55am]

Funny.

So to you,

Only things that you can see and observed are real?

Okay,If you say so.

God has been explained in many ways, the "what,where,why and who".

God is The Creator of all things.

God is not a thing that needed to be created. God is Eternal.

No begining and end.

God is outside of creation and can't be put into a beaker and measured.

Dirt is with in time and subject to it.

God is not.

Everybody but a fool knows dirt has not always been here.

Everything had a begining.

Creation itself SCREAMS there is a Creator.

So does dirt really beat God...?

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Reply #61 posted 10/19/10 2:10pm

paisleypark4

avatar

NevermindAlexzander said:

BombSquad said:

really? so then God can't exist, cause he can't come from nothing, thanks for making that clear.

what? you claim (I assume...) that God ALWAYS existed?

great. then I can make the same claim for "dirt", or the universe itself

"dirt always existed". see, that was easy.

my claim is just as valid as saying "God always existed". actually not really, my claim is MUCH MORE VALID than yours, because dirt (and the universe) has been observed to exist. but God has not.

sorry, Dirt beats God 1:0

[Edited 10/19/10 0:55am]

Funny.

So to you,

Only things that you can see and observed are real?

Okay,If you say so.

God has been explained in many ways, the "what,where,why and who".

God is The Creator of all things.

God is not a thing that needed to be created. God is Eternal.

No begining and end.

God is outside of creation and can't be put into a beaker and measured.

Dirt is with in time and subject to it.

God is not.

Everybody but a fool knows dirt has not always been here.

Everything had a begining.

Creation itself SCREAMS there is a Creator.

So does dirt really beat God...?

'god' is nothing we will ever know on earth, it's too big for our little minds to handle, so all of us should just stop it and quit trying to think we can figure it out...move on to something else.

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #62 posted 10/19/10 3:39pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

paisleypark4 said:

NevermindAlexzander said:

Funny.

So to you,

Only things that you can see and observed are real?

Okay,If you say so.

God has been explained in many ways, the "what,where,why and who".

God is The Creator of all things.

God is not a thing that needed to be created. God is Eternal.

No begining and end.

God is outside of creation and can't be put into a beaker and measured.

Dirt is with in time and subject to it.

God is not.

Everybody but a fool knows dirt has not always been here.

Everything had a begining.

Creation itself SCREAMS there is a Creator.

So does dirt really beat God...?

'god' is nothing we will ever know on earth, it's too big for our little minds to handle, so all of us should just stop it and quit trying to think we can figure it out...move on to something else.

Why?

God doesn't want you to discover all the Creators wonders?

We should just stop?

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Reply #63 posted 10/19/10 3:47pm

namepeace

CarrieMpls said:

namepeace said:

Carrie, everyone comes into this world as a blank slate. No one comes out of the womb subscribing to any belief system except food and mama. Children are not "born" atheists anymore than they're born neo-mercantilists.

Children adopt beliefs before they understand them. As for children who adopt atheism, I think that decision should be acknowledged and respected. Faith should be a personal matter for everyone.

In any event, some faiths recognize that children lack the capacity (and perhaps free will) to truly accept the beliefs in which they were raised, leading to "confirmation" or "coming-of-age" rites. Even after the "confirmation" process, those same kids grow in, or grow out, of faith, in fact if not officially.

Children are born with a lack of belief in a god. That's the very definition of atheism.

That's a s-t-r-e-t-c-h. Newborns don't have the capacity to "believe" or "not believe" anything. Babies come out of the womb having a lack of belief in supply-side economics. That doesn't mean all people in this world are "born Democrats."

[Edited 10/19/10 15:50pm]

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #64 posted 10/19/10 3:55pm

buist

namepeace said:

CarrieMpls said:

Children are born with a lack of belief in a god. That's the very definition of atheism.

That's a s-t-r-e-t-c-h. Newborns don't have the capacity to "believe" or "not believe" anything. Babies come out of the womb having a lack of belief in supply-side economics. That doesn't mean all people in this world are "born Democrats."

[Edited 10/19/10 15:50pm]

All babies are born democrats, except the ones that are aborted.

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Reply #65 posted 10/19/10 5:12pm

Lammastide

avatar

BombSquad said:

NevermindAlexzander said:

Did you ask him "Who or What?" made the cells and the dirt?

you can't have somthing from nothing.

really? so then God can't exist, cause he can't come from nothing, thanks for making that clear.

what? you claim (I assume...) that God ALWAYS existed?

great. then I can make the same claim for "dirt", or the universe itself

"dirt always existed". see, that was easy.

my claim is just as valid as saying "God always existed". actually not really, my claim is MUCH MORE VALID than yours, because dirt (and the universe) has been observed to exist. but God has not.

sorry, Dirt beats God 1:0

[Edited 10/19/10 0:55am]

Except wouldn't you need to subscribe to some paradigm that would afford latitude wherein you might make such a claim? As it were, I can't think of many naturalist models (and here I imply an ultimate atheism) that dis agree with the theistic notion of a singularity beyond which matter, space and time as we know them -- and certainly dirt -- didn't exist.

Perhaps all the more interesting, then, that even so long afer the Enlightenment, the most serviceable vocabulary around that field of unknowing -- around pre-existent "eternity" let's say -- still comes not from the physical sciences, but from those weirdo God-y folk. wacky ...And you wouldn't want to borrow their language, now would you? wink

[Edited 10/19/10 17:17pm]

Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.”
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Reply #66 posted 10/20/10 5:46am

paisleypark4

avatar

NevermindAlexzander said:



paisleypark4 said:




NevermindAlexzander said:




Funny.

So to you,


Only things that you can see and observed are real?


Okay,If you say so.


God has been explained in many ways, the "what,where,why and who".


God is The Creator of all things.


God is not a thing that needed to be created. God is Eternal.


No begining and end.


God is outside of creation and can't be put into a beaker and measured.


Dirt is with in time and subject to it.


God is not.


Everybody but a fool knows dirt has not always been here.


Everything had a begining.


Creation itself SCREAMS there is a Creator.



So does dirt really beat God...?




'god' is nothing we will ever know on earth, it's too big for our little minds to handle, so all of us should just stop it and quit trying to think we can figure it out...move on to something else.



Why?


God doesn't want you to discover all the Creators wonders?


We should just stop?



Why? Because this is how we all got in this situation in the first place..thinking that we or a group of said person/ group "knows" god as if god is a person..and then making judgements on what they interpit as "god"...a human like figure in the sky...nothing different than looking to Zeus to save us all from Hades.

And we are here to experience...this is not the same as trying to discover "god" because that is not anything we can "discover" the experience of life itself is already "god". Every single atom cell and being of exsistance is "god"..the experience is "god". The spirit has no need for "sin" and human judgement because every emotion and incorrect imperfection about being human was already made before we got here....that's why we all can share the same feelings of love, pain, suffering, happiness...we are supposed to have those elements to experience.

We should just "stop" trying to 'discover' a diety to help us from the sky and just love ourselves...it does not mean stop discovering all the new experiences you can have.
Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #67 posted 10/20/10 7:27am

chopingard

NevermindAlexzander said:

chopingard said:

Depends on what you were taught to have faith in. For myself if I followed the faith of my parents I would continue to belive I was going to hell just for loving someone of the same sex.

Since I realised the love was stronger than religion I have been able to be happy with who I am. I see nothing seedy or sinfull about the love I have for my partner.

So me personnally I gained a life where I was free to love

There are so many other things to gain

Some would say

Love is not about what is gained but what is sacrificed.

I have to make sacrifices in my relationship with my boyfriend all the time and he makes them for me. That's how I'm secure we have a loving equal relationship

or are you impliying I should sacrifice having a partner of the in the first place?

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Reply #68 posted 10/20/10 7:38am

JustErin

avatar

My 5 year old son told me the other day that he believes in God even though I don`t. I have explained God and religion to him many times, always saying that some people believe in it and some don`t - that it was a personal decision and then I explained why I didn`t believe in organized religion. Even though we are not religious at all, religion is always around us so he always has a lot of questions about it.

I`ll expose him to as many religions I can, and he can decide which one he wishes to follow or not to follow any at all.

But for now, he believes because he really likes the idea of heaven...which I think is kinda sweet. I do think that in time he will reject it all though....I`m not going to push him to, I just think he will on his own.

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Reply #69 posted 10/20/10 8:07am

Shoewhore

avatar

BombSquad said:

NevermindAlexzander said:

Did you ask him "Who or What?" made the cells and the dirt?

you can't have somthing from nothing.

really? so then God can't exist, cause he can't come from nothing, thanks for making that clear.

what? you claim (I assume...) that God ALWAYS existed?

great. then I can make the same claim for "dirt", or the universe itself

"dirt always existed". see, that was easy.

my claim is just as valid as saying "God always existed". actually not really, my claim is MUCH MORE VALID than yours, because dirt (and the universe) has been observed to exist. but God has not.

sorry, Dirt beats God 1:0

[Edited 10/19/10 0:55am]

Dirt FTW!!!! falloff

Proud Succubi Bitch!
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Reply #70 posted 10/20/10 12:54pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

buist said:

namepeace said:

That's a s-t-r-e-t-c-h. Newborns don't have the capacity to "believe" or "not believe" anything. Babies come out of the womb having a lack of belief in supply-side economics. That doesn't mean all people in this world are "born Democrats."

[Edited 10/19/10 15:50pm]

All babies are born democrats, except the ones that are aborted.

That's not nice.

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Reply #71 posted 10/20/10 12:59pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

chopingard said:

NevermindAlexzander said:

Some would say

Love is not about what is gained but what is sacrificed.

I have to make sacrifices in my relationship with my boyfriend all the time and he makes them for me. That's how I'm secure we have a loving equal relationship

or are you impliying I should sacrifice having a partner of the in the first place?

No...

I can't say do that.

But some do sacrifice there temporary earthly love for a greater Eternal Love.

To me that is True Love.

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Reply #72 posted 10/20/10 1:51pm

chopingard

NevermindAlexzander said:

chopingard said:

I have to make sacrifices in my relationship with my boyfriend all the time and he makes them for me. That's how I'm secure we have a loving equal relationship

or are you impliying I should sacrifice having a partner of the in the first place?

No...

I can't say do that.

But some do sacrifice there temporary earthly love for a greater Eternal Love.

To me that is True Love.

If "temporary earthly love" is not as true as "eternal love" have you sacrificed it?

Or did you opt for not being alone in this world and having the joy that comes from a loving relationship

[Edited 10/20/10 13:51pm]

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Reply #73 posted 10/20/10 3:22pm

namepeace

JustErin said:

My 5 year old son told me the other day that he believes in God even though I don`t. I have explained God and religion to him many times, always saying that some people believe in it and some don`t - that it was a personal decision and then I explained why I didn`t believe in organized religion. Even though we are not religious at all, religion is always around us so he always has a lot of questions about it.

I`ll expose him to as many religions I can, and he can decide which one he wishes to follow or not to follow any at all.

But for now, he believes because he really likes the idea of heaven...which I think is kinda sweet. I do think that in time he will reject it all though....I`m not going to push him to, I just think he will on his own.

Cultivating your son's ability to decide for himself . . . Respect.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #74 posted 10/20/10 3:31pm

suncrafter

avatar

This is a good thing. Adults with immaginary friends are stupid. biggrin

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Reply #75 posted 10/20/10 4:04pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

chopingard said:

NevermindAlexzander said:

No...

I can't say do that.

But some do sacrifice there temporary earthly love for a greater Eternal Love.

To me that is True Love.

If "temporary earthly love" is not as true as "eternal love" have you sacrificed it?

Or did you opt for not being alone in this world and having the joy that comes from a loving relationship

[Edited 10/20/10 13:51pm]

No...

Christ was the eternal sacrifice.

Mankind is to weak to do what Jesus did.

We only understand a small part of Love.

Nobody this side of eternity EVER felt or understood the totality of it.

But we can and should do what is called of us (LOVE sacrificialy) not because of reward but because it's Ultimately right.

We all put things ahead of the Eternal one and The Creators Love all the time every day.

That's why we often don't have true sacrificial love.

Or did you opt for not being alone in this world and having the joy that comes from a loving relationship

Nobody is alone in this world.

You may feel like it from time to time but that's all it is.

Im not saying you are wrong,but what if an understanding from that Higher

Power or that person you love lead you to see and understand that the way you are living is wrong.

Would you continue to live in a way that you know is not in line with that person you love or

that higher understanding you recieved?

I gave up a lot and more to do.

Looking back it doesn't compare to what I have gained.

I understand this is a REALLY touchy subject and Im not looking to offend.

I hope you understand that.

Your life is your life and I hope nothing but peace and happiness for you,yours and all who read this.

Sincerely

[Edited 10/20/10 16:10pm]

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Reply #76 posted 10/20/10 4:05pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

suncrafter said:

This is a good thing. Adults with immaginary friends are stupid. biggrin

Why is it even necessary to insult?

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Reply #77 posted 10/20/10 4:17pm

namepeace

chopingard said:

NevermindAlexzander said:

No...

I can't say do that.

But some do sacrifice there temporary earthly love for a greater Eternal Love.

To me that is True Love.

If "temporary earthly love" is not as true as "eternal love" have you sacrificed it?

Or did you opt for not being alone in this world and having the joy that comes from a loving relationship

[Edited 10/20/10 13:51pm]

I can't speak for N/A, but many who believe in God do not see the two as mutually exclusive.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #78 posted 10/20/10 5:08pm

NastradumasKid

NevermindAlexzander said:

No...

Christ was the eternal sacrifice.

Mankind is to weak to do what Jesus did.

We only understand a small part of Love.

Nobody this side of eternity EVER felt or understood the totality of it.

But we can and should do what is called of us (LOVE sacrificialy) not because of reward but because it's Ultimately right.

We all put things ahead of the Eternal one and The Creators Love all the time every day.

That's why we often don't have true sacrificial love.

What kill themselves for the good of mankind? People do it everyday.

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Reply #79 posted 10/20/10 5:31pm

chopingard

chopingard said:

NevermindAlexzander said:

No...

Christ was the eternal sacrifice.

Mankind is to weak to do what Jesus did.

We only understand a small part of Love.

Nobody this side of eternity EVER felt or understood the totality of it.

But we can and should do what is called of us (LOVE sacrificialy) not because of reward but because it's Ultimately right.

We all put things ahead of the Eternal one and The Creators Love all the time every day.

That's why we often don't have true sacrificial love.

Or did you opt for not being alone in this world and having the joy that comes from a loving relationship

Nobody is alone in this world.

You may feel like it from time to time but that's all it is.

Im not saying you are wrong,but what if an understanding from that Higher

Power or that person you love lead you to see and understand that the way you are living is wrong.

Would you continue to live in a way that you know is not in line with that person you love or

that higher understanding you recieved?

I gave up a lot and more to do.

Looking back it doesn't compare to what I have gained.

I understand this is a REALLY touchy subject and Im not looking to offend.

I hope you understand that.

Your life is your life and I hope nothing but peace and happiness for you,yours and all who read this.

Sincerely

[Edited 10/20/10 16:10pm]

If you REALLY are not looking to offend then don't include sentances about realising the way I'm living is wrong.

Seriously don't know you wish all the happiness for you and would never want to undermine anything about the relationships you have with other people

But this is exactly what I'm free from when I choose not to follow religion. You can worry about wether it's it's right or wrong based on a 2000 year old book, I don't need to I know it's just redundant and just a sympotom of indoctrination that thankfully I was enlightend and emancipated from....

[Edited 10/20/10 17:32pm]

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Reply #80 posted 10/20/10 5:35pm

chopingard

namepeace said:

chopingard said:

If "temporary earthly love" is not as true as "eternal love" have you sacrificed it?

Or did you opt for not being alone in this world and having the joy that comes from a loving relationship

[Edited 10/20/10 13:51pm]

I can't speak for N/A, but many who believe in God do not see the two as mutually exclusive.

Neither do I and most religions don't belive it is either.

I asked it because N/A mentioned about sacrifice when it came to me and having a relationship and wondered if N/A as an individual had done the same (and if not why mention it to me)

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Reply #81 posted 10/20/10 8:35pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

N/A mentioned about sacrifice when it came to me and having a relationship and wondered if N/A as an individual had done the same (and if not why mention it to me)

To answer that question.

Yes I have.

It was hard to do at the time.

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Reply #82 posted 10/20/10 8:41pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

namepeace said:

chopingard said:

If "temporary earthly love" is not as true as "eternal love" have you sacrificed it?

Or did you opt for not being alone in this world and having the joy that comes from a loving relationship

[Edited 10/20/10 13:51pm]

I can't speak for N/A, but many who believe in God do not see the two as mutually exclusive.

I don't either...but

We don't have the to capacity to know it and wield completely.

We often misguide our love and put it in the wrong place.

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Reply #83 posted 10/20/10 10:02pm

etifaim

avatar

namepeace said:

CarrieMpls said:

Children are born with a lack of belief in a god. That's the very definition of atheism.

That's a s-t-r-e-t-c-h. Newborns don't have the capacity to "believe" or "not believe" anything. Babies come out of the womb having a lack of belief in supply-side economics. That doesn't mean all people in this world are "born Democrats."

[Edited 10/19/10 15:50pm]

Ok then, let's call it "non-theism". It's still a form of atheism (i.e. soft, weak, or negative atheism).

Babies lack critical thinking to believe, therefore they disbelieve. It's that simple.

"For those who know the number and don't call...Fuck all y'all"
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Reply #84 posted 10/20/10 10:03pm

etifaim

avatar

etifaim said:

namepeace said:

That's a s-t-r-e-t-c-h. Newborns don't have the capacity to "believe" or "not believe" anything. Babies come out of the womb having a lack of belief in supply-side economics. That doesn't mean all people in this world are "born Democrats."

[Edited 10/19/10 15:50pm]

Ok then, let's call it "non-theism". It's still a form of atheism (i.e. soft, weak, or negative atheism).

Babies lack critical thinking to choose belief, therefore they disbelieve by default. It's that simple.

"For those who know the number and don't call...Fuck all y'all"
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Reply #85 posted 10/20/10 11:20pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

chopingard said:

chopingard said:

If you REALLY are not looking to offend then don't include sentances about realising the way I'm living is wrong.

Seriously don't know you wish all the happiness for you and would never want to undermine anything about the relationships you have with other people

But this is exactly what I'm free from when I choose not to follow religion. You can worry about wether it's it's right or wrong based on a 2000 year old book, I don't need to I know it's just redundant and just a sympotom of indoctrination that thankfully I was enlightend and emancipated from....

[Edited 10/20/10 17:32pm]

I didn't say I wasn't going to offend.

I said "Im not looking to offend."

It's not my intent.

But the topic of politics,religion,science and sex set people off.

Truth or a lie doesn't change.

2000 years or not.

Has nothing to do with a religion.

sentances about realising the way I'm living is wrong.

I never said that.

I said "Im not saying you are wrong"

also I said "what if..."

But you choose to get deffensive and not go down that road of thought to whatever conclusion and just have a discussion.

It's cool understand.

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Reply #86 posted 10/21/10 6:51am

abigail05

doesn't the prospect of spending eternity - a time that doesn't end - in a very terrible place concern you just a little bit?

With the many reports of people who have seen the "other side", be it heaven or hell, and they all seem quite in line with each other, do you just discount all that as nonsense?

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Reply #87 posted 10/21/10 7:50am

Shoewhore

avatar

abigail05 said:

doesn't the prospect of spending eternity - a time that doesn't end - in a very terrible place concern you just a little bit?

With the many reports of people who have seen the "other side", be it heaven or hell, and they all seem quite in line with each other, do you just discount all that as nonsense?

How do you know there is a terrible place? How do you know, if there IS a terrible place, that believing in a certain theology will prevent you from spending eternity there?

As far as reports from those who have seen the "other side" aren't the reports usually bright light, loved ones, etc.? I don't think I've ever read anything where someone has reported experiencing anything terrible. So maybe there is no "hell", maybe it's all just loved ones and bright lights?

We wont know for sure until we get there and your religious beliefs have just as great a chance of being "wrong" as my lack of belief.

Proud Succubi Bitch!
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Reply #88 posted 10/21/10 7:53am

MrSoulpower

abigail05 said:

doesn't the prospect of spending eternity - a time that doesn't end - in a very terrible place concern you just a little bit?

With the many reports of people who have seen the "other side", be it heaven or hell, and they all seem quite in line with each other, do you just discount all that as nonsense?

There are no reliable reports from the afterlife. They are reports from people who had near-death experiences, and these experiences have already been explained scientifically. Just like god, the idea of an afterlife or "heaven" and "hell" is a matter of faith, not fact.

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Reply #89 posted 10/21/10 8:36am

namepeace

etifaim said:

namepeace said:

That's a s-t-r-e-t-c-h. Newborns don't have the capacity to "believe" or "not believe" anything. Babies come out of the womb having a lack of belief in supply-side economics. That doesn't mean all people in this world are "born Democrats."

[Edited 10/19/10 15:50pm]

Ok then, let's call it "non-theism". It's still a form of atheism (i.e. soft, weak, or negative atheism).

Babies lack critical thinking to believe, therefore they disbelieve. It's that simple.

Call it whatever you want. That reasoning is patently flawed.

Atheism is a conscious act of disbelief. If babies lack the criticial thinking to believe, then they lack the critical thinking to be an atheist of any stripe. For the purposes of the question, babies are still in their formative stages, and therefore blank slates in this regard. Babies are born in a state of "non-ism," period.

To use newborns, directly or indirectly, to establish atheism as a natural state of being is wholly disingenuous, especially coming from a point of view that purports to invoke reason as its touchstone. If atheists are born, not made, you're taking critical thinking out of the equation, and from an atheist's point of view, that can't be a good thing.

You can soften all you want, but that's like saying,

babies are incapable of accepting natural selection, the big bang theory, quantum physics, evolution, etc. therefore they *must* come out of the womb in a state of soft theism.

or

babies don't come out of the womb Cowboys fans, so they are all born in a state of soft Redskinism

the dog don't hunt.

[Edited 10/21/10 8:39am]

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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