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Reply #30 posted 10/14/10 4:32pm

Lammastide

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namepeace said:

He's about confirmation age, he's ready to make that decision for himself.

[Edited 10/14/10 12:32pm]

Exactly. shrug We find our way, whatever way we find.

Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.”
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Reply #31 posted 10/14/10 4:56pm

savoirfaire

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PurpleJedi said:

Sop yesterday, we were having a discussion at the dinner table (the exact topic escapes me at this time), and when my youngest asked something about God, my oldest (12 years old) says;

"There is no such thing as God. It's just a myth."

Now...we are technically "Catholic", but my wife & I are really agnostic and (other than having them do their First Communion) we don't really push religion on the kids.

So I asked him "where did you hear that?"

He shrugged and replied; "It makes no sense. All living things are made up of cells and molecules. No one made humans out of dirt."

faint

I'm somewhat impressed that in the 7th grade he has come to such a milestone conclusion all on his own (if he's telling the truth...I'd hate to find out that someone else has been whispering in his ear). I didn't lose my religion until college. But then again, jr. (at the age of 12) is a whole lot more pragmatic that I could ever be.

I like how you parent, it reminds me of my parents.

My parents were also lapsed catholics. We didn't go to church, but my parents never ever said things one way or the other about God. However, many of my relatives were religious.

When I was around 8 years old, my school had a sort of christian club, where interested children could go learn about god.

Honestly, I had no idea what I was actually learning about, I just did it. The teacher lady was very nice, and of course I had to have a signed permission slip to get into class. My parents never made a peep when they signed the form, nor did I in any way get the impression that I was doing anything wrong.

As I attended the program I came back to my parents and asked them if they believed in God. Instead of them answering me, they said "Well, what do you think?"

I think I said something along the lines of "I don't know". Only that I never felt very influenced towards God at that time, and whatever I had said, my mom had said "Well many people think like that, yes. I probably think like that too."

Really, until I was an adult, my mom never outright said that she didn't really believe in God. Any discussion of religion (and there were really very few of these) I had with her led to very open-ended answers. She never pushed me one way or the other.

I really respected that out of her. I hope, if I am ever a parent, I can do the same for my children. Let them choose their own path and reach their own conclusions.

"Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring faith. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal" - Carl Sagan
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Reply #32 posted 10/14/10 5:00pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

PurpleJedi said:

NevermindAlexzander said:

How can you technically be a Catholic and be Agnostic?

"technically" as in; Baptized, Confirmed & Married in Catholic Church...took kids to religion classes...enjoy going to mass (usually on holy days) just to feel the spirituality.

"Agnostic" because I cannot accept the dogma at face value, and do not believe that the Catholic Church (or Christinaity or any other religion) is the end-all & be-all. Nor do I consider myself so grandiouse as to believe I can fully understand the wonders of this universe.

I see.

Thanks for explaining.

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Reply #33 posted 10/14/10 6:22pm

PurpleJedi

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savoirfaire said:

PurpleJedi said:

Sop yesterday, we were having a discussion at the dinner table (the exact topic escapes me at this time), and when my youngest asked something about God, my oldest (12 years old) says;

"There is no such thing as God. It's just a myth."

Now...we are technically "Catholic", but my wife & I are really agnostic and (other than having them do their First Communion) we don't really push religion on the kids.

So I asked him "where did you hear that?"

He shrugged and replied; "It makes no sense. All living things are made up of cells and molecules. No one made humans out of dirt."

faint

I'm somewhat impressed that in the 7th grade he has come to such a milestone conclusion all on his own (if he's telling the truth...I'd hate to find out that someone else has been whispering in his ear). I didn't lose my religion until college. But then again, jr. (at the age of 12) is a whole lot more pragmatic that I could ever be.

I like how you parent, it reminds me of my parents.

My parents were also lapsed catholics. We didn't go to church, but my parents never ever said things one way or the other about God. However, many of my relatives were religious.

When I was around 8 years old, my school had a sort of christian club, where interested children could go learn about god.

Honestly, I had no idea what I was actually learning about, I just did it. The teacher lady was very nice, and of course I had to have a signed permission slip to get into class. My parents never made a peep when they signed the form, nor did I in any way get the impression that I was doing anything wrong.

As I attended the program I came back to my parents and asked them if they believed in God. Instead of them answering me, they said "Well, what do you think?"

I think I said something along the lines of "I don't know". Only that I never felt very influenced towards God at that time, and whatever I had said, my mom had said "Well many people think like that, yes. I probably think like that too."

Really, until I was an adult, my mom never outright said that she didn't really believe in God. Any discussion of religion (and there were really very few of these) I had with her led to very open-ended answers. She never pushed me one way or the other.

I really respected that out of her. I hope, if I am ever a parent, I can do the same for my children. Let them choose their own path and reach their own conclusions.

thumbs up!

By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #34 posted 10/14/10 6:22pm

PurpleJedi

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NevermindAlexzander said:

PurpleJedi said:

"technically" as in; Baptized, Confirmed & Married in Catholic Church...took kids to religion classes...enjoy going to mass (usually on holy days) just to feel the spirituality.

"Agnostic" because I cannot accept the dogma at face value, and do not believe that the Catholic Church (or Christinaity or any other religion) is the end-all & be-all. Nor do I consider myself so grandiouse as to believe I can fully understand the wonders of this universe.

I see.

Thanks for explaining.

thumbs up!

By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #35 posted 10/14/10 7:24pm

robinhood

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good for him, to be thinking for himself, regardless of what he believes. (assuming no one whispered in his ear)

this too shall pass
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Reply #36 posted 10/14/10 9:10pm

IanRG

robinhood said:

good for him, to be thinking for himself, regardless of what he believes. (assuming no one whispered in his ear)

Ditto. He is starting on journey of self discovery. Who knows where he will end up? At his age I would have said the same thing.

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Reply #37 posted 10/15/10 1:18am

PANDURITO

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Who needs God when you have a playstation?

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Reply #38 posted 10/15/10 8:18am

angel345

IanRG said:

robinhood said:

good for him, to be thinking for himself, regardless of what he believes. (assuming no one whispered in his ear)

Ditto. He is starting on journey of self discovery. Who knows where he will end up? At his age I would have said the same thing.

Agreed nod

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Reply #39 posted 10/15/10 10:08am

Empress

MrSoulpower said:

Empress said:

I hope you don't mind me asking, but your situation sounds very interesting. How do you and your wife get along when she is christian and you are almost an atheist? I'm sure that can be problematic at times. Both my husband and I are atheists so I can't imagine how hard it would be for our marriage if he was christian and we had such different beliefs. I think it's great that you make it work but I'm just curious as to how you keep it working.

My wife was raised Catholic, and even was JW for some years (because her mother was). She's a very smart woman and I can often see her in conflict with her faith, when reason and logic takes over her thinking, in scientic discussions, for example. She is not a creationist, which makes it easier. But yes, sometime we do have heated discussions, but usually we just agree to disagree. Compromise is a major part of every good marriage. biggrin

I hear you! I've been married for 22 years and even though we are both atheists, I'm a liberal and my husband is a conservative. Neither of us are far left or far right, but we do have our disagreements about it from time to time. Good luck keeping your marriage strong. It's hard work, but worth it if you really want it to last.

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Reply #40 posted 10/15/10 11:30am

PurpleJedi

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PANDURITO said:

Who needs God when you have a playstation?

falloff

...in his case, that would be Nintendo DS!

By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #41 posted 10/16/10 3:17pm

DIAMONDGEEZA

BIG DEAL.

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Reply #42 posted 10/17/10 10:11am

PurpleJedi

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DIAMONDGEEZA said:

BIG DEAL.

Yes, it is.

By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #43 posted 10/17/10 10:30am

Vendetta1

PurpleJedi said:

DIAMONDGEEZA said:

BIG DEAL.

Yes, it is.

clapping

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Reply #44 posted 10/18/10 7:26am

abigail05

I can't see how losing faith improves your life.

What do you gain by it?

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Reply #45 posted 10/18/10 7:52am

Efan

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abigail05 said:

I can't see how losing faith improves your life.

What do you gain by it?

For starters, freedom from needless guilt, a new respect for life, and an hour (give or take) of sleep on Sundays.

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Reply #46 posted 10/18/10 8:46am

sextonseven

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abigail05 said:

I can't see how losing faith improves your life.

What do you gain by it?

Religion isn't for everyone. Many people can lead happy and fulfilling lives without believing in God.

[Edited 10/18/10 8:47am]

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Reply #47 posted 10/18/10 11:36am

paisleypark4

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NevermindAlexzander said:

PurpleJedi said:

Sop yesterday, we were having a discussion at the dinner table (the exact topic escapes me at this time), and when my youngest asked something about God, my oldest (12 years old) says;

"There is no such thing as God. It's just a myth."

Now...we are technically "Catholic", but my wife & I are really agnostic and (other than having them do their First Communion) we don't really push religion on the kids.

So I asked him "where did you hear that?"

He shrugged and replied; "It makes no sense. All living things are made up of cells and molecules. No one made humans out of dirt."

faint

I'm somewhat impressed that in the 7th grade he has come to such a milestone conclusion all on his own (if he's telling the truth...I'd hate to find out that someone else has been whispering in his ear). I didn't lose my religion until college. But then again, jr. (at the age of 12) is a whole lot more pragmatic that I could ever be.

Did you ask him "Who or What?" made the cells and the dirt?

you can't have somthing from nothing.

How can you technically be a Catholic and be Agnostic?

[Edited 10/14/10 12:01pm]

Everything comes FROM something....however the spirit can and will never be a human like figure as said in the Bible after being misquoted and re-written from it's original text, so technically; he saved himself from lots of heartbreak and brainwashing in the end..now he can go on with his life.

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #48 posted 10/18/10 12:19pm

mordang

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abigail05 said:

I can't see how losing faith improves your life.

What do you gain by it?

You gain the truth....besides that there is nothing worth mentioning. Atheists do not go around with their lifes, being aware of their blatent atheism. It is a non-issue, that only springs into life when a believer starts to make claims about how it all should be, because some god had a certain plan or intentions.

Then an atheist jumps up and says something like "rubbish", sometimes with a nice cool logic to back it up, and goes forth enjoying his or hers empty and morally void life. wink

But I agree on one thing with many...it is a big deal...allthough it seldomly crosses my mind.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
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Reply #49 posted 10/18/10 2:02pm

namepeace

NevermindAlexzander said:

How can you technically be a Catholic and be Agnostic?

One can easily identify as a [fill in denomination or faith affiliation here] and be an agnostic.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #50 posted 10/18/10 4:02pm

chopingard

abigail05 said:

I can't see how losing faith improves your life.

What do you gain by it?

Depends on what you were taught to have faith in. For myself if I followed the faith of my parents I would continue to belive I was going to hell just for loving someone of the same sex.

Since I realised the love was stronger than religion I have been able to be happy with who I am. I see nothing seedy or sinfull about the love I have for my partner.

So me personnally I gained a life where I was free to love

There are so many other things to gain

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Reply #51 posted 10/18/10 5:34pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

paisleypark4 said:

NevermindAlexzander said:

Did you ask him "Who or What?" made the cells and the dirt?

you can't have somthing from nothing.

How can you technically be a Catholic and be Agnostic?

[Edited 10/14/10 12:01pm]

Everything comes FROM something....however the spirit can and will never be a human like figure as said in the Bible after being misquoted and re-written from it's original text, so technically; he saved himself from lots of heartbreak and brainwashing in the end..now he can go on with his life.

however the spirit can and will never be a human like figure as said in the Bible after being misquoted and re-written from it's original text,

That's an discussion for another thread.

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Reply #52 posted 10/18/10 5:37pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

chopingard said:

abigail05 said:

I can't see how losing faith improves your life.

What do you gain by it?

Depends on what you were taught to have faith in. For myself if I followed the faith of my parents I would continue to belive I was going to hell just for loving someone of the same sex.

Since I realised the love was stronger than religion I have been able to be happy with who I am. I see nothing seedy or sinfull about the love I have for my partner.

So me personnally I gained a life where I was free to love

There are so many other things to gain

Some would say

Love is not about what is gained but what is sacrificed.

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Reply #53 posted 10/18/10 11:35pm

BombSquad

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NevermindAlexzander said:

Did you ask him "Who or What?" made the cells and the dirt?

you can't have somthing from nothing.

really? so then God can't exist, cause he can't come from nothing, thanks for making that clear.

what? you claim (I assume...) that God ALWAYS existed?

great. then I can make the same claim for "dirt", or the universe itself

"dirt always existed". see, that was easy.

my claim is just as valid as saying "God always existed". actually not really, my claim is MUCH MORE VALID than yours, because dirt (and the universe) has been observed to exist. but God has not.

sorry, Dirt beats God 1:0

[Edited 10/19/10 0:55am]

I live in constant fear that Trump will deport my latina mother-in-law who lives at 1837 3rd street, LA 90023, blue house. she gets off work at 6
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Reply #54 posted 10/19/10 4:08am

Dsoul

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abigail05 said:

I can't see how losing faith improves your life.

What do you gain by it?

Are you suggesting a child can have religious faith, independent of surrounding influences anyway?

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Reply #55 posted 10/19/10 4:13am

BombSquad

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abigail05 said:

I can't see how losing faith improves your life.

What do you gain by it?

intellectual FREEDOM

cause using your brain without bronze age boundaries is priceless

[Edited 10/19/10 4:14am]

I live in constant fear that Trump will deport my latina mother-in-law who lives at 1837 3rd street, LA 90023, blue house. she gets off work at 6
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Reply #56 posted 10/19/10 9:59am

paisleypark4

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NevermindAlexzander said:



paisleypark4 said:




NevermindAlexzander said:



Did you ask him "Who or What?" made the cells and the dirt?


you can't have somthing from nothing.


How can you technically be a Catholic and be Agnostic?


[Edited 10/14/10 12:01pm]



Everything comes FROM something....however the spirit can and will never be a human like figure as said in the Bible after being misquoted and re-written from it's original text, so technically; he saved himself from lots of heartbreak and brainwashing in the end..now he can go on with his life.








however the spirit can and will never be a human like figure as said in the Bible after being misquoted and re-written from it's original text,



That's an discussion for another thread.




Tru dat tru dat.

Well to stay on subject...yes he save himself from lots of societal scrutiny and confusion..
Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #57 posted 10/19/10 10:51am

CarrieMpls

Ex-Moderator

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abigail05 said:

I can't see how losing faith improves your life.

What do you gain by it?

At 12 years old, I don’t know that there’s any faith to be lost. Children are born atheists, they are taught to believe otherwise.

I understood god as a concept and social construct as a child, but when I took the time to really think about it I realized I’d never really believed to begin with. I had just accepted what adults told me.

When I “came out” as an atheist at that age I had teachers tell me I was very mature (for questioning such a thing) and friends tell me I was going to hell (which I found a bit rude, but ultimately funny, since I didn’t believe in hell anyway. lol ).

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Reply #58 posted 10/19/10 12:44pm

namepeace

CarrieMpls said:

abigail05 said:

I can't see how losing faith improves your life.

What do you gain by it?

At 12 years old, I don’t know that there’s any faith to be lost. Children are born atheists, they are taught to believe otherwise.

I understood god as a concept and social construct as a child, but when I took the time to really think about it I realized I’d never really believed to begin with. I had just accepted what adults told me.

When I “came out” as an atheist at that age I had teachers tell me I was very mature (for questioning such a thing) and friends tell me I was going to hell (which I found a bit rude, but ultimately funny, since I didn’t believe in hell anyway. lol ).

Carrie, everyone comes into this world as a blank slate. No one comes out of the womb subscribing to any belief system except food and mama. Children are not "born" atheists anymore than they're born neo-mercantilists.

Children adopt beliefs before they understand them. As for children who adopt atheism, I think that decision should be acknowledged and respected. Faith should be a personal matter for everyone.

In any event, some faiths recognize that children lack the capacity (and perhaps free will) to truly accept the beliefs in which they were raised, leading to "confirmation" or "coming-of-age" rites. Even after the "confirmation" process, those same kids grow in, or grow out, of faith, in fact if not officially.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #59 posted 10/19/10 12:55pm

CarrieMpls

Ex-Moderator

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namepeace said:

CarrieMpls said:

At 12 years old, I don’t know that there’s any faith to be lost. Children are born atheists, they are taught to believe otherwise.

I understood god as a concept and social construct as a child, but when I took the time to really think about it I realized I’d never really believed to begin with. I had just accepted what adults told me.

When I “came out” as an atheist at that age I had teachers tell me I was very mature (for questioning such a thing) and friends tell me I was going to hell (which I found a bit rude, but ultimately funny, since I didn’t believe in hell anyway. lol ).

Carrie, everyone comes into this world as a blank slate. No one comes out of the womb subscribing to any belief system except food and mama. Children are not "born" atheists anymore than they're born neo-mercantilists.

Children adopt beliefs before they understand them. As for children who adopt atheism, I think that decision should be acknowledged and respected. Faith should be a personal matter for everyone.

In any event, some faiths recognize that children lack the capacity (and perhaps free will) to truly accept the beliefs in which they were raised, leading to "confirmation" or "coming-of-age" rites. Even after the "confirmation" process, those same kids grow in, or grow out, of faith, in fact if not officially.

Children are born with a lack of belief in a god. That's the very definition of atheism.

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