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Reply #30 posted 03/27/10 11:40am

angel345

2elijah said:

angel345 said:


I meant to say she is expressing it for those who feel that way.



I find that most, not all black women, don't seem to have a problem expressing their honest opinion about interracial relationships. Some may be angry or upset about it, but there's really not much they could do about it. Quite frankly, these days, our younger generation of black women, are not sitting around waiting for a black man to notice them. Many of them are dating outside their race and not waiting for a black man to discover them, So bascially, a black man will never limit a black woman to what she can have, if she wants it, no matter how many white, or other non-black women, a black man dates.

Most of my first cousins married Puerto Rican men, and only one married a white man and they have a teenage daughter who resembles Lenny Kravitz's daughter. All my brothers married Black women, and have been married to them for years, except one, who is single now.

But you know, people will attack Jill because of her honesty, even though she did not say anything "negative" about interracial relationships.
[Edited 3/27/10 11:34am]

Actually, the last person I have read and seen that has spoke publically about it is between author Shaharazad Ali author of The Blackman's Guide To Understanding The Blackwoman and the follow up book The Blackwoman's Guide, and Jill Scott. You're right, being bitter about it is not going to change anything because you live with the choices you make. The only thing the black woman can do at this point is look out for her, and be strong.
[Edited 3/27/10 11:41am]
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Reply #31 posted 03/27/10 11:48am

2elijah

avatar

angel345 said:

2elijah said:




I find that most, not all black women, don't seem to have a problem expressing their honest opinion about interracial relationships. Some may be angry or upset about it, but there's really not much they could do about it. Quite frankly, these days, our younger generation of black women, are not sitting around waiting for a black man to notice them. Many of them are dating outside their race and not waiting for a black man to discover them, So bascially, a black man will never limit a black woman to what she can have, if she wants it, no matter how many white, or other non-black women, a black man dates.

Most of my first cousins married Puerto Rican men, and only one married a white man and they have a teenage daughter who resembles Lenny Kravitz's daughter. All my brothers married Black women, and have been married to them for years, except one, who is single now.

But you know, people will attack Jill because of her honesty, even though she did not say anything "negative" about interracial relationships.
[Edited 3/27/10 11:34am]

Actually, the last person I have read and seen that has spoke publically about it is between author Shaharazad Ali author of The Blackman's Guide To Understanding The Blackwoman and the follow up book The Blackwoman's Guide, and Jill Scott. You're right, being bitter about it is not going to change anything because you live with the choices you make. The only thing the black woman can do at this point is look out for her, and be strong.
[Edited 3/27/10 11:41am]


Exactly, makes no sense breaking down over it. That situation certainly doesn't make it the end of the world, and that's why regardless of the situation, so many black women have made the choice to move on. biggrin
[Edited 3/27/10 11:49am]
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Reply #32 posted 03/27/10 11:52am

angel345

2elijah said:

angel345 said:


From observation, I've noticed that many Asian women love white men.


True. One of my previous dentists was Japanese, and he used to hook up asian woment with his white friends. He told me that in Japan, if a woman is tall, there's a less chance of her finding a Japanese man to marry, so women over 5'5" often end up looking for non-Asian husbands. This is what he told me, don't know how true that really is, but you're right, many white males in NYC love Asian women. Lately, especially on the upper east side, that's all I've been seeing on my way to work.

You wouldn't believe this, but I have surfing the net one day, and came across an Asian men website (they spoke English along with their native tongue) that was bitter that their women preferred white men. I was like eek. I don't know what's happening in Asia, but you don't hear that talk from Asian men in America.
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Reply #33 posted 03/27/10 11:58am

angel345

2elijah said:

angel345 said:


I have surfed the net, and noticed surveys on American black man/woman relatioships. They have the highest divorce rate, and that you can see with your own eyes. Also seen surveys that in America, black women are least likely to date or marry outside their race, and if they do, it's a small number.


...and they'll get the blamed and criticized for that too.
[Edited 3/27/10 11:35am]

nod
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Reply #34 posted 03/27/10 11:59am

meow85

avatar

angel345 said:

2elijah said:



True. One of my previous dentists was Japanese, and he used to hook up asian woment with his white friends. He told me that in Japan, if a woman is tall, there's a less chance of her finding a Japanese man to marry, so women over 5'5" often end up looking for non-Asian husbands. This is what he told me, don't know how true that really is, but you're right, many white males in NYC love Asian women. Lately, especially on the upper east side, that's all I've been seeing on my way to work.

You wouldn't believe this, but I have surfing the net one day, and came across an Asian men website (they spoke English along with their native tongue) that was bitter that their women preferred white men. I was like eek. I don't know what's happening in Asia, but you don't hear that talk from Asian men in America.

Maybe it's a location specific thing? There's a pretty high Asian population where I live now and all the Asian men I know grit their teeth at "their" women choosing to be with white men.
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #35 posted 03/27/10 12:02pm

2elijah

avatar

angel345 said:

2elijah said:



True. One of my previous dentists was Japanese, and he used to hook up asian woment with his white friends. He told me that in Japan, if a woman is tall, there's a less chance of her finding a Japanese man to marry, so women over 5'5" often end up looking for non-Asian husbands. This is what he told me, don't know how true that really is, but you're right, many white males in NYC love Asian women. Lately, especially on the upper east side, that's all I've been seeing on my way to work.

You wouldn't believe this, but I have surfing the net one day, and came across an Asian men website (they spoke English along with their native tongue) that was bitter that their women preferred white men. I was like eek. I don't know what's happening in Asia, but you don't hear that talk from Asian men in America.



I think they have a right to voice their opinion on it. Why not? Should all people that feel that way be banned from expressing that? Maybe these Asian men want to fall in love with women of their race/culture and carry on Asian traditions. Nothing wrong with that, but many people don't see it that way. When Mayer made his comments, his was said in a degrading manner, there's a difference. I couldn't careless if Mayer only wants to date within his race, it's his personal choice, but he should have been more careful with the racist comments he had attached to it, even if he claimed he didn't mean it that way, not everyone will take what someone intended as sarcasm or facetious as just that.
[Edited 3/27/10 12:06pm]
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Reply #36 posted 03/27/10 12:05pm

2elijah

avatar

meow85 said:

angel345 said:


You wouldn't believe this, but I have surfing the net one day, and came across an Asian men website (they spoke English along with their native tongue) that was bitter that their women preferred white men. I was like eek. I don't know what's happening in Asia, but you don't hear that talk from Asian men in America.

Maybe it's a location specific thing? There's a pretty high Asian population where I live now and all the Asian men I know grit their teeth at "their" women choosing to be with white men.


I think it has something to do with wanting to preserve culture/traditions. There are so many beautiful cultures/traditions within many ethnic groups, it could be a matter of trying to preserve that, moreso than it being based on race, I guess. shrug
[Edited 3/27/10 12:06pm]
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Reply #37 posted 03/27/10 12:07pm

angel345

meow85 said:

angel345 said:


You wouldn't believe this, but I have surfing the net one day, and came across an Asian men website (they spoke English along with their native tongue) that was bitter that their women preferred white men. I was like eek. I don't know what's happening in Asia, but you don't hear that talk from Asian men in America.

Maybe it's a location specific thing? There's a pretty high Asian population where I live now and all the Asian men I know grit their teeth at "their" women choosing to be with white men.

Wow! to tell you the truth, I always thought they could careless shrug It goes to show that they still do in this day.
[Edited 3/27/10 12:22pm]
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Reply #38 posted 03/27/10 12:10pm

angel345

2elijah said:

meow85 said:


Maybe it's a location specific thing? There's a pretty high Asian population where I live now and all the Asian men I know grit their teeth at "their" women choosing to be with white men.


I think it has something to do with wanting to preserve culture/traditions. There are so many beautiful cultures/traditions within many ethnic groups, it could be a matter of trying to preserve that, moreso than it being based on race, I guess. shrug
[Edited 3/27/10 12:06pm]

Well, yes that can be one way of looking at it, for you've mentioned the history of the black man/woman. It could be for the same reasons.
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Reply #39 posted 03/27/10 12:33pm

cborgman

avatar

2elijah said:

deebee said:

I thought it was an honest and pretty measured piece by Jill, tbh. I mean, she makes clear that she's personally conflicted about the issue - uncomfortable that her 'gut reaction' and liberal principles that she holds dear seem to be at odds with each other. I took it as her asking, "Why do I feel like this? Well, as far as I understand it, it's for this reason", rather than trying to shove an opinion down anyone else's throat.

It's also an attempt to openly about a subject that's absolutely saturated with taboos, which rarely get an airing. I mean, it's tied-up with race, sex, all the unspoken stuff that goes on in our minds when thinking about relationship partners, the fact that we all have this other unconscious or subconscious level to our psyches and we're not wholly 'rational' beings, etc etc. (Jeez, it's loaded with taboos!)

The thing is, though, to my mind, unless we talk openly and honestly about these taboos, we're never going to progress in tackling race issues. I mean, what I take as coming through absolutely vividly from a piece like this is that, collectively, America (like other societies, such as my own) is nowhere near being 'post-racial' (and not on account of Jill Scott); and that, in a way, selling people the idea that it is, and they should all start pretending that it is, is doing them a disservice. These questions of identity and division are just a reality in our societies; not a reality which we're powerless to do anything about, but certainly a reality that won't go away without us confronting it honestly. It's just a real shame that doing that is so hard.



Excellent point. It's nice to see an opinion of her piece, not being an attack on her honesty. I find too often when a black woman expresses her opinion on interracial dating, she is often attacked by others' opinions. She never said she had an issue with interracial dating, but just looked back in the past and remembered how what is now "accepted" wasn't back then, although there's still a long road to go with race issues in America. I applaud her for her honesty.

i hope my post doesn't read as an attack. it wasnt intended to.

i understand what she is saying, i just disagree.
"I am almost never wrong"
"it is hard being the smartest person in the room but it is a cross i am willing to bare."


-OnlyNDaUsa
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Reply #40 posted 03/27/10 12:38pm

cborgman

avatar

2elijah said:

angel345 said:


I meant to say she is expressing it for those who feel that way.



I find that most, not all black women, don't seem to have a problem expressing their honest opinion about interracial relationships. Some may be angry or upset about it, but there's really not much they could do about it. Quite frankly, these days, our younger generation of black women, are not sitting around waiting for a black man to notice them. Many of them are dating outside their race and not waiting for a black man to discover them, So bascially, a black man will never limit a black woman to what she can have, if she wants it, no matter how many white, or other non-black women, a black man dates.

Most of my first cousins married Puerto Rican men, and only one married a white man and they have a teenage daughter who resembles Lenny Kravitz's daughter. All my brothers married Black women, and have been married to them for years, except one, who is single now.

But you know, people will attack Jill because of her honesty, even though she did not say anything "negative" about interracial relationships.
[Edited 3/27/10 11:34am]

true, she never says anything negative about it. i think what bothers me is that she knowingly decribes her own prejudice in the second paragraph, but then goes on to try and justify it, rather than dealing with it.

she never gives any other details about the man in question. she doesn't say and probably did not ask if he only has dated white women, or if he just met the one who was right for him who happened to be white.
"I am almost never wrong"
"it is hard being the smartest person in the room but it is a cross i am willing to bare."


-OnlyNDaUsa
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Reply #41 posted 03/27/10 12:39pm

cborgman

avatar

meow85 said:

Jill Scott needs a kick in the ass for this.


I understand that there are still many people who date people from specific racial groups because of self hate, ulterior motives, overt or covert racism, you name it.

BUT THAT IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE

Not by a long shot. disbelief


yea. granted it is a short op-ed piece, but based on what she wrote it is hard to not assume clearly has some prejudices towards black men who date or marry outside of their race.
[Edited 3/27/10 12:42pm]
"I am almost never wrong"
"it is hard being the smartest person in the room but it is a cross i am willing to bare."


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Reply #42 posted 03/27/10 12:45pm

angel345

angel345 said:

2elijah said:



I think it has something to do with wanting to preserve culture/traditions. There are so many beautiful cultures/traditions within many ethnic groups, it could be a matter of trying to preserve that, moreso than it being based on race, I guess. shrug
[Edited 3/27/10 12:06pm]

Well, yes that can be one way of looking at it, for you've mentioned the history of the black man/woman. It could be for the same reasons.

It looks like we're on the same wavelength today, emoticons and all lol
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Reply #43 posted 03/27/10 1:12pm

2elijah

avatar

cborgman said:

2elijah said:




Excellent point. It's nice to see an opinion of her piece, not being an attack on her honesty. I find too often when a black woman expresses her opinion on interracial dating, she is often attacked by others' opinions. She never said she had an issue with interracial dating, but just looked back in the past and remembered how what is now "accepted" wasn't back then, although there's still a long road to go with race issues in America. I applaud her for her honesty.

i hope my post doesn't read as an attack. it wasnt intended to.

i understand what she is saying, i just disagree.


No, I don't see it as an attack, but Jill is no different from those Asian men that angel345 spoke of, who want to date within their race/ethnicity. It's not a crime to want to do that, and now it seems the tables have turned that if you choose to do that, then you're committing a crime, compared to years ago, when it was basically law, that a black man couldn't marry a white woman. I don't feel one should be attacked for that. I had no issues with John Mayer stating he dates within his own race, I just didn't like the racist statements he made, and the stereotypical terms he associated with African-Americans. Many Jews only marry those who follow the jewish religion, would anyone point fingers and call them racists for doing so? I don't think they are. I respect that they want to maintain some of the traditions/cultures/religious beliefs for future generations. Maybe Jill just wants more black men to date black women, she's not saying she's against interracial relationships. She just sees a major divide, and disrespect, abandonment of many young black children by their fathers, leaving the mothers and members of society to raise them. I respect any black man that takes care of his children, and is responsible, respects black women and not degrade them.

There is a crisis within the black community, and black women are left to deal with it alone. I see nothing wrong with Jill's desire to see some of these men come back and help deal with some of the major issues, our community are facing with young, black children falling prey to street gangs, as though that is their family or becoming victims of drug abuse and jail. Young men need their fathers.
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Reply #44 posted 03/27/10 1:26pm

2elijah

avatar

cborgman said:

2elijah said:




I find that most, not all black women, don't seem to have a problem expressing their honest opinion about interracial relationships. Some may be angry or upset about it, but there's really not much they could do about it. Quite frankly, these days, our younger generation of black women, are not sitting around waiting for a black man to notice them. Many of them are dating outside their race and not waiting for a black man to discover them, So bascially, a black man will never limit a black woman to what she can have, if she wants it, no matter how many white, or other non-black women, a black man dates.

Most of my first cousins married Puerto Rican men, and only one married a white man and they have a teenage daughter who resembles Lenny Kravitz's daughter. All my brothers married Black women, and have been married to them for years, except one, who is single now.

But you know, people will attack Jill because of her honesty, even though she did not say anything "negative" about interracial relationships.
[Edited 3/27/10 11:34am]

true, she never says anything negative about it. i think what bothers me is that she knowingly decribes her own prejudice in the second paragraph, but then goes on to try and justify it, rather than dealing with it.

she never gives any other details about the man in question. she doesn't say and probably did not ask if he only has dated white women, or if he just met the one who was right for him who happened to be white.


What prejudice? She said "the sting was there" more than likely meaning another athlete not being attracted to black women. Many of our black athletes will start out with black women being there for them. Then when they reach stardom or are on a higher, economic level, they leave the black woman that stayed with them through the struggle to get where they want to be, then leave them, and seek out non-black women. If you read that book angel spoke of, it pretty much explains a lot behind that.

But in no way what Jill stated meant she is prejudiced, she was more or less hurt. If a Black man attacks what she said, is because she is speaking on an "uncomfortable truth", and many, not all black men, cannot stand when a black woman speaks about it. He will degrade her and call her names if she even attempts to speak about it. The chances of black women, who love black males, and want to marry him, be in a relationship with him, have his children, etc., are becoming slim, because so many black males have fallen prey to crime, jail, are not into women, so that doesn't leave much for black women to pick from, so when there are those that live by society's laws, educated, has a job, doesn't even have to ahigh income, make it in sports or business, becomes a celebrity, he is exposed to and made offers and availability, from women of all races, so more than likely, when they see this happening, they will not have black women at the top of the list. Doesn't matter how good she is, how pretty she is.

I am not saying they can't fall in love with white women, that would be ridiculous to assume that, but the bottom line is, due to the shortage of available black men there's many that are available for them. This is why some black women get upset about it, no crime committed, just innocent feelings. This is why many black women are now dating outside their race, even if some folks think they're not. In my community, you see a lot of black men with hispanic females. Usually, it's very dark-skinned black guys dating them. Just to be fair, there are many, good, respectable black men, that love black women, take care of their families, it would not be fair to judge them all the same.






.
[Edited 3/27/10 13:31pm]
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Reply #45 posted 03/27/10 1:31pm

angel345

2elijah said:

angel345 said:


You wouldn't believe this, but I have surfing the net one day, and came across an Asian men website (they spoke English along with their native tongue) that was bitter that their women preferred white men. I was like eek. I don't know what's happening in Asia, but you don't hear that talk from Asian men in America.



I think they have a right to voice their opinion on it. Why not? Should all people that feel that way be banned from expressing that? Maybe these Asian men want to fall in love with women of their race/culture and carry on Asian traditions. Nothing wrong with that, but many people don't see it that way. When Mayer made his comments, his was said in a degrading manner, there's a difference. I couldn't careless if Mayer only wants to date within his race, it's his personal choice, but he should have been more careful with the racist comments he had attached to it, even if he claimed he didn't mean it that way, not everyone will take what someone intended as sarcasm or facetious as just that.[Edited 3/27/10 12:06pm]

When Mayer mentioned the KKK and David Duke, he was through, considering the history with black/white relations.

I have to say this, for it is a historical fact: it is because of the white woman, black men were lynched and burned to a crisp in America, and maybe Jill Scotts is thinking why would you want to deal with the white woman who betrayed you when the black woman has always had your back. Possible, but who can speak for her.
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Reply #46 posted 03/27/10 1:31pm

2elijah

avatar

angel345 said:

angel345 said:


Well, yes that can be one way of looking at it, for you've mentioned the history of the black man/woman. It could be for the same reasons.

It looks like we're on the same wavelength today, emoticons and all lol



Sure seems that way. lol
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Reply #47 posted 03/27/10 1:41pm

2elijah

avatar

purplemansionFL said:

to Black women, this constant and forever subject you always bring up
your beef should always be with white media perpetuating the myth and stereotype of a superior white woman
who a person chooses to bed no matter what skin tone is none of your fucking business. understand this.
u will not date/fuck him, u diss every sista he with, u bitch cause he never has enough money, u moan cause you think he beneath your 'status',
you constantly gossip about him and yet remain single and don't know why
If I came in your house with any criticisms you would tell me to "mind my business and get the fuck out".
So extend me the same courtesy
Life has a brief number of years, find your happiness and never worry bout what the next man doing



lol Whoa dude...

What I find interesting is that most of the time it's black men posting these type topics and bringing it up, and then get mad when a black woman responds to it. Then tells her to shutup about it. If you don't want to hear about it, why post topics on it? lol That doesn't make any sense.

So listen up....now I don't normally say what I'm about to say, but check this....ask a black woman what happens when she walks past a group of black men with her white man's arms around her. You really think some black guys don't say anything when she walks past with him? Guess what? I have an older sister who dated at least 3 or 4 white men in her life. She lived in Italy for two years, dated an Italian man while she was there, and speaks fluent Italian. When she came back to NY, she was in a relationship with a different white male, and walked past a group of Black men, they gave her dirty looks, tried to start fights with her white boyfriend, and my sister is one chic you don't mess with, because as tiny as she was at that time, she sure the hell stood up to those guys. This happened to her several times. She was called all kinds of names by black men, because they saw her with a white man. Those men were threatened by that white man's hands all over my sister, and freaked the hell out when they saw him with her.

So you see, you can slam some black women for calling you on your BS, but the only reason why many of them slam her, is because she ruffles a feather in them, whenever this topic comes up, that forces some of them to question themselves, about how they really treat black women. It's all good, there's plenty of beautiful fish in the sea, I doubt black women are starving that much. I love Black men, but sh*t it's not like you can move mountains. lol
[Edited 3/27/10 18:10pm]
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Reply #48 posted 03/27/10 1:56pm

2elijah

avatar

angel345 said:

2elijah said:




I think they have a right to voice their opinion on it. Why not? Should all people that feel that way be banned from expressing that? Maybe these Asian men want to fall in love with women of their race/culture and carry on Asian traditions. Nothing wrong with that, but many people don't see it that way. When Mayer made his comments, his was said in a degrading manner, there's a difference. I couldn't careless if Mayer only wants to date within his race, it's his personal choice, but he should have been more careful with the racist comments he had attached to it, even if he claimed he didn't mean it that way, not everyone will take what someone intended as sarcasm or facetious as just that.[Edited 3/27/10 12:06pm]

When Mayer mentioned the KKK and David Duke, he was through, considering the history with black/white relations.

I have to say this, for it is a historical fact: it is because of the white woman, black men were lynched and burned to a crisp in America, and maybe Jill Scotts is thinking why would you want to deal with the white woman who betrayed you when the black woman has always had your back. Possible, but who can speak for her.


Angel, it does not matter what a black woman says when it comes to this topic, they will always be attacked for daring to speak or wonder about it. When you expose "uncomfortable truths" it sets off alarms. When a Black man has to stoop so low to degrade her for speaking about it, I mean how much worth could that particular man be to them anyway if he has to degrade them? Says a whole lot about that individual's character. Life goes on.
[Edited 3/27/10 14:15pm]
America's prison industry=a cheap labor force and goldmine profits for private prison owners. Slavery never left..it just got upgraded.
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Reply #49 posted 03/27/10 2:50pm

cborgman

avatar

2elijah said:

cborgman said:


true, she never says anything negative about it. i think what bothers me is that she knowingly decribes her own prejudice in the second paragraph, but then goes on to try and justify it, rather than dealing with it.

she never gives any other details about the man in question. she doesn't say and probably did not ask if he only has dated white women, or if he just met the one who was right for him who happened to be white.


What prejudice? She said "the sting was there" more than likely meaning another athlete not being attracted to black women. Many of our black athletes will start out with black women being there for them. Then when they reach stardom or are on a higher, economic level, they leave the black woman that stayed with them through the struggle to get where they want to be, then leave them, and seek out non-black women. If you read that book angel spoke of, it pretty much explains a lot behind that.

But in no way what Jill stated meant she is prejudiced, she was more or less hurt. If a Black man attacks what she said, is because she is speaking on an "uncomfortable truth", and many, not all black men, cannot stand when a black woman speaks about it. He will degrade her and call her names if she even attempts to speak about it. The chances of black women, who love black males, and want to marry him, be in a relationship with him, have his children, etc., are becoming slim, because so many black males have fallen prey to crime, jail, are not into women, so that doesn't leave much for black women to pick from, so when there are those that live by society's laws, educated, has a job, doesn't even have to ahigh income, make it in sports or business, becomes a celebrity, he is exposed to and made offers and availability, from women of all races, so more than likely, when they see this happening, they will not have black women at the top of the list. Doesn't matter how good she is, how pretty she is.

I am not saying they can't fall in love with white women, that would be ridiculous to assume that, but the bottom line is, due to the shortage of available black men there's many that are available for them. This is why some black women get upset about it, no crime committed, just innocent feelings. This is why many black women are now dating outside their race, even if some folks think they're not. In my community, you see a lot of black men with hispanic females. Usually, it's very dark-skinned black guys dating them. Just to be fair, there are many, good, respectable black men, that love black women, take care of their families, it would not be fair to judge them all the same.






.
[Edited 3/27/10 13:31pm]


my comment on her prejudice is one that she doesn't seem interested in finding out anything beyond the surface of what she sees and reacts to. or if she did, she didn't bother to mention it.

she takes one example, sees that he is with a white woman, and getsa upset. she doesn't bother to ask if he has always been exclusively with white women, she doesn't ask what attracts him to white women exclusively (if that is the case), she doesn't do anything but react.

because she has already made up her mind, which is prejudice in the more nuetral and correct sense of the word. i didn't say it negatively, i just said she seems to make up her mind the minute he tells her he is with a white woman, and then just fills in the rest with her already prejudged reasons.
"I am almost never wrong"
"it is hard being the smartest person in the room but it is a cross i am willing to bare."


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Reply #50 posted 03/27/10 3:18pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

I read this article yesterday and to me Jill is just trying to figure out why that which once meant instant death for so many black men now means instant life. What I got from her commentary was that she is finding that more and more black men are not necessarily being open minded but rather looking to the white woman as a "first choice". Yes she has a baby out of wedlock but what does that have to do with anything? Plenty of white celebrity women have babies out of wedlock and no one seems to care. When Halle Berry met the man who would become her child's father and has since been happy with him (this is turning into her most successful relationship) I can't tell you how many black men that I've met and know who took issue with it. And you know damn well that if Beyonce would have hooked up with say Timberlake over Jay Z, all those magazines marketed toward black men would have a field day and there would be an ugly backlash. It's a shame that if a black woman questions why a black man is dating a white woman, it's automatically deemed as stemming from racism or insecurity when often it's just a question. shrug
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Reply #51 posted 03/27/10 3:22pm

2elijah

avatar

DesireeNevermind said:

I read this article yesterday and to me Jill is just trying to figure out why that which once meant instant death for so many black men now means instant life. What I got from her commentary was that she is finding that more and more black men are not necessarily being open minded but rather looking to the white woman as a "first choice". Yes she has a baby out of wedlock but what does that have to do with anything? Plenty of white celebrity women have babies out of wedlock and no one seems to care. When Halle Berry met the man who would become her child's father and has since been happy with him (this is turning into her most successful relationship) I can't tell you how many black men that I've met and know who took issue with it. And you know damn well that if Beyonce would have hooked up with say Timberlake over Jay Z, all those magazines marketed toward black men would have a field day and there would be an ugly backlash. It's a shame that if a black woman questions why a black man is dating a white woman, it's automatically deemed as stemming from racism or insecurity when often it's just a question. shrug



Hi Desi!...wave hug

Excellent points Desiree!!
[Edited 3/27/10 15:23pm]
America's prison industry=a cheap labor force and goldmine profits for private prison owners. Slavery never left..it just got upgraded.
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Reply #52 posted 03/27/10 3:23pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

I think there's a back story here. I think Jill in a subtle way is letting the reader know that this guy is one of those black guys that contribute to and perpetuate the stereotypes about white women. I also think the entire article is her own way of saying it bothers her but she's getting over it.

My new friend is handsome, African-American, intelligent and seemingly wealthy. He is an athlete, loves his momma, and is happily married to a White woman. I admit when I saw his wedding ring, I privately hoped. But something in me just knew he didn't marry a sister.
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Reply #53 posted 03/27/10 3:23pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

2elijah said:

DesireeNevermind said:

I read this article yesterday and to me Jill is just trying to figure out why that which once meant instant death for so many black men now means instant life. What I got from her commentary was that she is finding that more and more black men are not necessarily being open minded but rather looking to the white woman as a "first choice". Yes she has a baby out of wedlock but what does that have to do with anything? Plenty of white celebrity women have babies out of wedlock and no one seems to care. When Halle Berry met the man who would become her child's father and has since been happy with him (this is turning into her most successful relationship) I can't tell you how many black men that I've met and know who took issue with it. And you know damn well that if Beyonce would have hooked up with say Timberlake over Jay Z, all those magazines marketed toward black men would have a field day and there would be an ugly backlash. It's a shame that if a black woman questions why a black man is dating a white woman, it's automatically deemed as stemming from racism or insecurity when often it's just a question. shrug



Hi Desi!...wave hug

Excellent points Desiree!!
[Edited 3/27/10 15:23pm]


hug thank you hon...you as well. we know what it is.
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Reply #54 posted 03/27/10 3:32pm

2elijah

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cborgman said:

2elijah said:



What prejudice? She said "the sting was there" more than likely meaning another athlete not being attracted to black women. Many of our black athletes will start out with black women being there for them. Then when they reach stardom or are on a higher, economic level, they leave the black woman that stayed with them through the struggle to get where they want to be, then leave them, and seek out non-black women. If you read that book angel spoke of, it pretty much explains a lot behind that.

But in no way what Jill stated meant she is prejudiced, she was more or less hurt. If a Black man attacks what she said, is because she is speaking on an "uncomfortable truth", and many, not all black men, cannot stand when a black woman speaks about it. He will degrade her and call her names if she even attempts to speak about it. The chances of black women, who love black males, and want to marry him, be in a relationship with him, have his children, etc., are becoming slim, because so many black males have fallen prey to crime, jail, are not into women, so that doesn't leave much for black women to pick from, so when there are those that live by society's laws, educated, has a job, doesn't even have to ahigh income, make it in sports or business, becomes a celebrity, he is exposed to and made offers and availability, from women of all races, so more than likely, when they see this happening, they will not have black women at the top of the list. Doesn't matter how good she is, how pretty she is.

I am not saying they can't fall in love with white women, that would be ridiculous to assume that, but the bottom line is, due to the shortage of available black men there's many that are available for them. This is why some black women get upset about it, no crime committed, just innocent feelings. This is why many black women are now dating outside their race, even if some folks think they're not. In my community, you see a lot of black men with hispanic females. Usually, it's very dark-skinned black guys dating them. Just to be fair, there are many, good, respectable black men, that love black women, take care of their families, it would not be fair to judge them all the same.
.
[Edited 3/27/10 13:31pm]


my comment on her prejudice is one that she doesn't seem interested in finding out anything beyond the surface of what she sees and reacts to. or if she did, she didn't bother to mention it.

she takes one example, sees that he is with a white woman, and getsa upset. she doesn't bother to ask if he has always been exclusively with white women, she doesn't ask what attracts him to white women exclusively (if that is the case), she doesn't do anything but react.

because she has already made up her mind, which is prejudice in the more nuetral and correct sense of the word. i didn't say it negatively, i just said she seems to make up her mind the minute he tells her he is with a white woman, and then just fills in the rest with her already prejudged reasons.



Maybe because she has seen this happen a lot, so it really wasn't a surprise in a way, maybe she felt that because she knew the guy for sometime, and probably thought he would have married a black woman. It is becoming quite common among that surprised when they hear this anymore. The point is, he chose to marry a white woman, so I don't think it made a difference at that point, when Jill found out, to question whether he dated black women before his wife.

Marriage puts the seal on a relationship, whereas no matter who it is you date, that doesn't guaranty your partner will marry you. Some here automatically labeled Jill "prejudiced" as soon as they read it, and even likened her to the KKK's beliefs. Usually a strong opinion like that happens when a feather is ruffled. She never said she had any issues with interracial relationships. Point is, not too many black women are lucky enough to marry black male athletes or celebrities.
[Edited 3/27/10 15:37pm]
America's prison industry=a cheap labor force and goldmine profits for private prison owners. Slavery never left..it just got upgraded.
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Reply #55 posted 03/27/10 3:37pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

2elijah said:

cborgman said:



my comment on her prejudice is one that she doesn't seem interested in finding out anything beyond the surface of what she sees and reacts to. or if she did, she didn't bother to mention it.

she takes one example, sees that he is with a white woman, and getsa upset. she doesn't bother to ask if he has always been exclusively with white women, she doesn't ask what attracts him to white women exclusively (if that is the case), she doesn't do anything but react.

because she has already made up her mind, which is prejudice in the more nuetral and correct sense of the word. i didn't say it negatively, i just said she seems to make up her mind the minute he tells her he is with a white woman, and then just fills in the rest with her already prejudged reasons.



Maybe because she has seen this happen a lot, so it really wasn't a surprise. It is becoming quite common among many black athletes to marry non-black women, and many black women are not surprised. The point is, he chose to marry a white woman, so I don't think it made a difference at that point, when Jill found out he was married to a white woman, if he dated black women prior to that. Marriage puts the seal on a relationship, whereas no matter who it is you date, that doesn't guaranty your partner will marry you. Some here automatically labeled Jill "prejudiced" as soon as they read it, and even likened her to the KKK's beliefs. Usually a strong opinion like that happens when a feather is ruffled. She never said she had any issues with interracial relationships. Point is, not too many black women are lucky enough to marry black male athletes or celebrities.



nod And sometimes such a reaction is plain ole projection.
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Reply #56 posted 03/27/10 4:01pm

cborgman

avatar

DesireeNevermind said:

I read this article yesterday and to me Jill is just trying to figure out why that which once meant instant death for so many black men now means instant life. What I got from her commentary was that she is finding that more and more black men are not necessarily being open minded but rather looking to the white woman as a "first choice". Yes she has a baby out of wedlock but what does that have to do with anything? Plenty of white celebrity women have babies out of wedlock and no one seems to care. When Halle Berry met the man who would become her child's father and has since been happy with him (this is turning into her most successful relationship) I can't tell you how many black men that I've met and know who took issue with it. And you know damn well that if Beyonce would have hooked up with say Timberlake over Jay Z, all those magazines marketed toward black men would have a field day and there would be an ugly backlash. It's a shame that if a black woman questions why a black man is dating a white woman, it's automatically deemed as stemming from racism or insecurity when often it's just a question. shrug

i agree with a lot of what you are saying.

i hope i was not the one who the racism point stems from though, because that isnt at all what i am arguing. i don't think jill is a racist, though my grandfather was, but not only based of his similar view on interracial relationships.

there is an instutionalized promotion of white straight blond blue eyed christian people in this country, as well as many parts of the world where white folks are scarce, and it is beyond ridiculous.

my chief complaint is that jill knows what she is saying is based in prejudice in the nuetral sense of the word. she acknowledges it repeatedly in the piece. but rather than explore her admittedly mild prejudment of any black man with a white girl, she just starts pointing fingers.

i don't know her back story, i don't know what she is been through, but to me it really seems like she is lashing out a little for something not mentioned in the article.

and that's fine too, but whatever caused this piece of writing is not representative of everyone that dates outside of his or her race. i am sure it is true for some, but to peg brothers who marry white girls is making a pretty broad generalization for brothers who aren't with sisters.

it probably wouldn't even bother me had she made some admission that there are a lot of people like me, who date whoever is right for them, regardless of skin color. but she didn't. she just goes right into broad generalizations. broad generalizations that get repeated enough times become stereotyped programming. look at the crazy fuckers in the tea party. those people are programmed with stereotypes and rage. i think that's very dangerous.
"I am almost never wrong"
"it is hard being the smartest person in the room but it is a cross i am willing to bare."


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Reply #57 posted 03/27/10 4:05pm

cborgman

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2elijah said:

cborgman said:



my comment on her prejudice is one that she doesn't seem interested in finding out anything beyond the surface of what she sees and reacts to. or if she did, she didn't bother to mention it.

she takes one example, sees that he is with a white woman, and getsa upset. she doesn't bother to ask if he has always been exclusively with white women, she doesn't ask what attracts him to white women exclusively (if that is the case), she doesn't do anything but react.

because she has already made up her mind, which is prejudice in the more nuetral and correct sense of the word. i didn't say it negatively, i just said she seems to make up her mind the minute he tells her he is with a white woman, and then just fills in the rest with her already prejudged reasons.



Maybe because she has seen this happen a lot, so it really wasn't a surprise in a way, maybe she felt that because she knew the guy for sometime, and probably thought he would have married a black woman. It is becoming quite common among that surprised when they hear this anymore. The point is, he chose to marry a white woman, so I don't think it made a difference at that point, when Jill found out, to question whether he dated black women before his wife.

Marriage puts the seal on a relationship, whereas no matter who it is you date, that doesn't guaranty your partner will marry you. Some here automatically labeled Jill "prejudiced" as soon as they read it, and even likened her to the KKK's beliefs. Usually a strong opinion like that happens when a feather is ruffled. She never said she had any issues with interracial relationships. Point is, not too many black women are lucky enough to marry black male athletes or celebrities.
[Edited 3/27/10 15:37pm]

but she didn't know him. she says "my new friend" when naming him.

and i really hope you don't mean me regarding the KKK beliefs. and i think she is prejudiced in a mild way. she meets a guy, and immediatly casts aspersions onto him and his life because he is black and married a white woman. that is the definition in a nuetral sense of prejudiced.

hug
"I am almost never wrong"
"it is hard being the smartest person in the room but it is a cross i am willing to bare."


-OnlyNDaUsa
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Reply #58 posted 03/27/10 4:19pm

cborgman

avatar

DesireeNevermind said:

2elijah said:




Maybe because she has seen this happen a lot, so it really wasn't a surprise. It is becoming quite common among many black athletes to marry non-black women, and many black women are not surprised. The point is, he chose to marry a white woman, so I don't think it made a difference at that point, when Jill found out he was married to a white woman, if he dated black women prior to that. Marriage puts the seal on a relationship, whereas no matter who it is you date, that doesn't guaranty your partner will marry you. Some here automatically labeled Jill "prejudiced" as soon as they read it, and even likened her to the KKK's beliefs. Usually a strong opinion like that happens when a feather is ruffled. She never said she had any issues with interracial relationships. Point is, not too many black women are lucky enough to marry black male athletes or celebrities.



nod And sometimes such a reaction is plain ole projection.

you don't mean me, do you?
"I am almost never wrong"
"it is hard being the smartest person in the room but it is a cross i am willing to bare."


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Reply #59 posted 03/27/10 4:22pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

cborgman said:

DesireeNevermind said:

I read this article yesterday and to me Jill is just trying to figure out why that which once meant instant death for so many black men now means instant life. What I got from her commentary was that she is finding that more and more black men are not necessarily being open minded but rather looking to the white woman as a "first choice". Yes she has a baby out of wedlock but what does that have to do with anything? Plenty of white celebrity women have babies out of wedlock and no one seems to care. When Halle Berry met the man who would become her child's father and has since been happy with him (this is turning into her most successful relationship) I can't tell you how many black men that I've met and know who took issue with it. And you know damn well that if Beyonce would have hooked up with say Timberlake over Jay Z, all those magazines marketed toward black men would have a field day and there would be an ugly backlash. It's a shame that if a black woman questions why a black man is dating a white woman, it's automatically deemed as stemming from racism or insecurity when often it's just a question. shrug

i agree with a lot of what you are saying.

i hope i was not the one who the racism point stems from though, because that isnt at all what i am arguing. i don't think jill is a racist, though my grandfather was, but not only based of his similar view on interracial relationships.

there is an instutionalized promotion of white straight blond blue eyed christian people in this country, as well as many parts of the world where white folks are scarce, and it is beyond ridiculous.

my chief complaint is that jill knows what she is saying is based in prejudice in the nuetral sense of the word. she acknowledges it repeatedly in the piece. but rather than explore her admittedly mild prejudment of any black man with a white girl, she just starts pointing fingers.

i don't know her back story, i don't know what she is been through, but to me it really seems like she is lashing out a little for something not mentioned in the article.

and that's fine too, but whatever caused this piece of writing is not representative of everyone that dates outside of his or her race. i am sure it is true for some, but to peg brothers who marry white girls is making a pretty broad generalization for brothers who aren't with sisters.

it probably wouldn't even bother me had she made some admission that there are a lot of people like me, who date whoever is right for them, regardless of skin color. but she didn't. she just goes right into broad generalizations. broad generalizations that get repeated enough times become stereotyped programming. look at the crazy fuckers in the tea party. those people are programmed with stereotypes and rage. i think that's very dangerous.


I see your point and no I wasn't directing the racism comment at you but making a point (attempting to anyway) that generally, its' assumed that Jill is racist for her comment. While what Jill says may sound like prejudice to others, to women and black women in particular, it's more of an observation and questioning why we see so many affluent black men with white women when they could very well be with affluent black women. It's not a condemnation but I get that she's letting the black women readers know that "it aint just you" who notices or even experiences on a personal level what could be construed as a rejection of black women by black men. Again, she is asking why not "me", me being symbolic of a black woman. It's a fair question I think. She doesn't appear to be saying "you shouldn't date outside your race" but asking "why don't you date within your race". If we are to be fully honest with ourselves, there is something that our own culture and people can understand, share and give to us that someone from another race/culture can't. That's not to say people don't benefit from dating interracial, heck we can all learn something new, but when it comes down to certain issues and stuff that a black man has to deal with every day in this life (this country in particular), only a black woman would know how he truly feels and what he's truly going through. shrug twocents Heck I date white and asian guys myself but when it comes to marriage and raising kids I'm probably going to go for somebody that looks more like me and can identify with my background.


lurking this thread has inspired me to talk about my friend. dayum dating is hard for everyone.
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