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Thread started 03/06/10 1:32pm

stichdoll

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Is it mean and racist to call someone a cracker?

Someone can name the show this was on (the clip is on a very popular video site), but I found it mean for prince to call the talkshow host a cracker. he did sound like a complete square reading out his lyrics, but I found it a little offensive and it made the rest of his thank yous disingenuous. it also seemed like he was put up to it...maybe larry graham told him to do it (well if the glove fits!) i mean it was in his pocket, so he intended to do it.
for those who don't know what i'm talking about, he takes a cracker out of his pocket and starts eating it saying 'i've had no breakfast'. later as they cut to commercial he says 'i'm going to finish my cracker'. it is by no means as cool as getting Quincy Jones to lean in for a lick on his lollipop.
Got my mojo working...it just don't work on you!
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Reply #1 posted 03/06/10 2:26pm

xlr8r

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Wasn't it The Today show with Matt Lauer?
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Reply #2 posted 03/06/10 2:41pm

aPrrince4aMJlo
ver

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The answer is very obvious in case you didn't know...bored
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"U no eye <3 U."
pussy
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Reply #3 posted 03/06/10 2:44pm

Boogiebear

Yes
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Reply #4 posted 03/06/10 2:59pm

KeithyT

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Yes it's nearly as bad as Honky. Prince is such a meanie. Sheesh.
Just somewhere in the middle,
Not too good and not too bad.
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Reply #5 posted 03/06/10 3:47pm

stichdoll

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i'm being serious here. not being a person of african persuausion, i wouldn't go on tv eating an icecream and saying "i'm gonna finish my gollywog" if the interviewer was black (used to be a brand name of icecream, ironic eh?)
he could have taken the piss out of him directly for the stiff way he reads out the lyrics. it just seems like a cheap shot.

btw if he had done the cracker gag on Bryant Gumbel that would have been funny!
[Edited 3/6/10 15:50pm]
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Reply #6 posted 03/06/10 3:56pm

2elijah

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stichdoll said:

i'm being serious here. not being a person of african persuausion, i wouldn't go on tv eating an icecream and saying "i'm gonna finish my gollywog" if the interviewer was black (used to be a brand name of icecream, ironic eh?)
he could have taken the piss out of him directly for the stiff way he reads out the lyrics. it just seems like a cheap shot.

btw if he had done the cracker gag on Bryant Gumbel that would have been funny!
[Edited 3/6/10 15:50pm]



Answer to your question, actually someone referring to them as one, could be considered racist/offensive, to the individual (white person), if someone from another race called them that as an intent to use it as a racist term. I have a question for you though, if you didn't think it was okay for him to make the comment you stated he made, during the interview with the white person, then why would you think it would have been okay for him to do that during an interview with Bryant Gumbel? Makes me wonder if you're really sincere in your questioning about the situation. I mean why would one get a pass over the other? shrug
[Edited 3/7/10 16:19pm]
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Reply #7 posted 03/06/10 4:13pm

tricky2

THIS IS A REAL AD I COPIED FROM THE BACK OF A 2002 MAGAZINE!

eek
[Edited 3/6/10 16:14pm]
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Reply #8 posted 03/06/10 4:16pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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stichdoll said:

i'm being serious here. not being a person of african persuausion, i wouldn't go on tv eating an icecream and saying "i'm gonna finish my gollywog" if the interviewer was black (used to be a brand name of icecream, ironic eh?)
he could have taken the piss out of him directly for the stiff way he reads out the lyrics. it just seems like a cheap shot.

btw if he had done the cracker gag on Bryant Gumbel that would have been funny!


Sorry but I would not have been offended about the icecream thing, because I don't know what a gollywog is? never heard that term used

what does it mean?
Now where I come from
We don't let society tell us how it's supposed 2 be
Our clothes, our hair, we don't care
It's all about being there...
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Reply #9 posted 03/06/10 4:19pm

2elijah

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OldFriends4Sale said:

stichdoll said:

i'm being serious here. not being a person of african persuausion, i wouldn't go on tv eating an icecream and saying "i'm gonna finish my gollywog" if the interviewer was black (used to be a brand name of icecream, ironic eh?)
he could have taken the piss out of him directly for the stiff way he reads out the lyrics. it just seems like a cheap shot.

btw if he had done the cracker gag on Bryant Gumbel that would have been funny!


Sorry but I would not have been offended about the icecream thing, because I don't know what a gollywog is? never heard that term used

what does it mean?


It's considered a racist term and is also a doll, mostly made with black fabric, with an "exaggerated" look, to emulate the "perceived" features of a person of African descent. A doll many people of African/African-American descent find offensive. I won't post the image, but will show you a link with a pic of one:

http://rtone.files.wordpr...llywog.jpg


Golliwog Caricature:

http://www.ferris.edu/JIMCROW/golliwog/


The Golliwog (originally spelled Golliwogg) is the least known of the major anti-Black caricatures in the United States. Golliwogs are grotesque creatures,1 with very dark, often jet black skin, large white-rimmed eyes, red or white clown lips, and wild, frizzy hair.2 Typically, it's a male dressed in a jacket, trousers, bow tie, and stand-up collar in a combination of red, white, blue, and occasionally yellow colors. The golliwog image, popular in England and other European countries, is found on a variety of items, including postcards, jam jars, paperweights, brooches, wallets, perfume bottles, wooden puzzles, sheet music, wall paper, pottery, jewelry, greeting cards, clocks, and dolls. For the past four decades Europeans have debated whether the Golliwog is a lovable icon or a racist symbol.

The Golliwog began life as a story book character created by Florence Kate Upton. Upton was born in 1873 in Flushing, New York, to English parents who had emigrated to the United States in 1870. She was the second of four children. When Upton was fourteen, her father died and, shortly thereafter, the family returned to England. For several years she honed her skills as an artist. Unable to afford art school, Upton illustrated her own children's book in the hope of raising tuition money.




Anyway, shrug back on topic...
[Edited 3/6/10 16:48pm]
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Reply #10 posted 03/06/10 4:24pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Yes,

but i think it might depend, depending on what region/state/county it's used in.

Where I work a white dude I'm friends with get's called cracker & honkey all the time by an Italian dude we're friends with

A bunch of us in the office were talking about racial terms(hardly any for white people) but if you single out a person ethnicity then you get the load

Italians have Dego Guinea WOP and in Europe & Australia WOG
Hispanics have them
Asians have them
Pollish Germans Irish English have them
of course Black American have them

but from what we were talking about when you understand the origin of the 'slurs' cracker and honkey it's doesn't make the white person that bad off

cracker was the white person with the wip on the horse to keep the slaves in line

honkey is more like gecchie, people who talk like they are honking like geese
they pronounce their A's the same
example: a guy on tv was talking about Tupac Shakur and instead of saying Tupawwk Shawkur he says TupAehk ShAkur Shakur like Shak these people tend 2 be of English-American heritage
Now where I come from
We don't let society tell us how it's supposed 2 be
Our clothes, our hair, we don't care
It's all about being there...
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Reply #11 posted 03/06/10 4:57pm

poetcorner61

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes,

but i think it might depend, depending on what region/state/county it's used in.

Where I work a white dude I'm friends with get's called cracker & honkey all the time by an Italian dude we're friends with

A bunch of us in the office were talking about racial terms(hardly any for white people) but if you single out a person ethnicity then you get the load

Italians have Dego Guinea WOP and in Europe & Australia WOG
Hispanics have them
Asians have them
Pollish Germans Irish English have them
of course Black American have them

but from what we were talking about when you understand the origin of the 'slurs' cracker and honkey it's doesn't make the white person that bad off

cracker was the white person with the wip on the horse to keep the slaves in line

honkey is more like gecchie, people who talk like they are honking like geese
they pronounce their A's the same
example: a guy on tv was talking about Tupac Shakur and instead of saying Tupawwk Shawkur he says TupAehk ShAkur Shakur like Shak these people tend 2 be of English-American heritage


I still remember when a friend of mine told me that a cracker was the white overseer holding the whip over the slaves--which was news to me 'cause I thought it meant saltine cracker--with the same reference as white Wonder Bread! doh! shake lol
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Reply #12 posted 03/06/10 7:16pm

CJBabyDaddy

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Reply #13 posted 03/06/10 7:48pm

IanRG

You learn something every day.

Outside of USA its got nothing to do with whips used against slaves or cattle - check UrbanDictionary.com for dispute on the USA origin.

In Scotland to crack is to gossip so a cracker is a gossiper.

In Ireland its related to a good time.

In England to call an attractive girl a cracker is call them attractive.

My Chemistry teacher was Mr Horn - we called him "Cracka"

Its like when Pres Bush made a peace sign in Australia with his thumb, ring and little finger pointing back to him - This is a rude gesture related to reminding the French about their loss at Agincourt by showing them the two fingers used to pull back a bowstring. He meant no offense so none was taken.

Clearly presenter meant his biscuit annd not his slave keeper.
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Reply #14 posted 03/06/10 7:55pm

meow85

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Depends on the situation, but I'd be inclined to say no.

That said, the word does have a racially-charged history so I can understand if anyone did take offense to it. nod
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Reply #15 posted 03/06/10 9:06pm

TyphoonTip

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??
"Sunday Bloody Sunday. What a great song. It really encapsulates the frustration of a Sunday, doesn't it? You wake up in the morning, you've got to read all the Sunday papers, the kids are running round, you've got to mow the lawn..." ALAN PARTRIDGE.
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Reply #16 posted 03/06/10 9:27pm

TheVoid

stichdoll said:

Someone can name the show this was on (the clip is on a very popular video site), but I found it mean for prince to call the talkshow host a cracker. he did sound like a complete square reading out his lyrics, but I found it a little offensive and it made the rest of his thank yous disingenuous. it also seemed like he was put up to it...maybe larry graham told him to do it (well if the glove fits!) i mean it was in his pocket, so he intended to do it.
for those who don't know what i'm talking about, he takes a cracker out of his pocket and starts eating it saying 'i've had no breakfast'. later as they cut to commercial he says 'i'm going to finish my cracker'. it is by no means as cool as getting Quincy Jones to lean in for a lick on his lollipop.



I know the conversation invariably comes up about "what is racism? who can be racist?" so I won't bother using that word.

It is mean and prejudiced to call some a cracker. The term is derogatory.
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Reply #17 posted 03/06/10 10:31pm

2the9s

stichdoll said:

Someone can name the show this was on (the clip is on a very popular video site), but I found it mean for prince to call the talkshow host a cracker. he did sound like a complete square reading out his lyrics, but I found it a little offensive and it made the rest of his thank yous disingenuous. it also seemed like he was put up to it...maybe larry graham told him to do it (well if the glove fits!) i mean it was in his pocket, so he intended to do it.
for those who don't know what i'm talking about, he takes a cracker out of his pocket and starts eating it saying 'i've had no breakfast'. later as they cut to commercial he says 'i'm going to finish my cracker'. it is by no means as cool as getting Quincy Jones to lean in for a lick on his lollipop.


You have my permission to use the "N" word in mixed company!



(Is that what this is about? biggrin)
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Reply #18 posted 03/07/10 1:32am

davidoff1966

It depends. If the world is to be told based on the American experience what is racist and be held to American standards then yes.
If the world maintains it's own standards and refuses to be forced to accept American standards on racism (what a joke!) then it is racist nowhere but in America.

Taking advice on racism from America is akin to asking them how to build a fuel efficient car. In case that analogy is too vague, America is one of the most racist places in the developed world.
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Reply #19 posted 03/07/10 6:33am

XxAxX

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davidoff1966 said:

It depends. If the world is to be told based on the American experience what is racist and be held to American standards then yes.
If the world maintains it's own standards and refuses to be forced to accept American standards on racism (what a joke!) then it is racist nowhere but in America.

Taking advice on racism from America is akin to asking them how to build a fuel efficient car. In case that analogy is too vague, America is one of the most racist places in the developed world.


no, it isn't.

and, i doubt that your comment is based on personal, travel, experience.
if it were, you would be aware that 1) america is far more culturally and ethnically diverse than most countries on the planet, thus lending itself to more social and cultural clashes; and 2) there are countries that are far, far more racist than america. japan for one comes to mind. there are others, but why don't you check out japan's history of racist oppression against the koreans born on japanese soil even today, and then get back to us with your findings? smile
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Reply #20 posted 03/07/10 6:33am

XxAxX

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oh and yes. 'cracker' is a racist term that should not be used any more than the word 'nigger' should be used.
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Reply #21 posted 03/07/10 8:08am

davidoff1966

XxAxX said:

davidoff1966 said:

It depends. If the world is to be told based on the American experience what is racist and be held to American standards then yes.
If the world maintains it's own standards and refuses to be forced to accept American standards on racism (what a joke!) then it is racist nowhere but in America.

Taking advice on racism from America is akin to asking them how to build a fuel efficient car. In case that analogy is too vague, America is one of the most racist places in the developed world.


no, it isn't.

and, i doubt that your comment is based on personal, travel, experience.
if it were, you would be aware that 1) america is far more culturally and ethnically diverse than most countries on the planet, thus lending itself to more social and cultural clashes; and 2) there are countries that are far, far more racist than america. japan for one comes to mind. there are others, but why don't you check out japan's history of racist oppression against the koreans born on japanese soil even today, and then get back to us with your findings? smile


1. I have spent much of the last 5 years in the USA.
2. If you had read the statement it said one of the most racist in the developed world. Pointing to another nation that has a poor record does not remove that of America.
3. As far as the USA being culturally diverse goes I would agree that those of many nations live there. However the USA in my experience is not so good at accepting differing cultures and ideals. Mostly they want those there to assimilate TOTALLY in to the US way of being. In fact that also goes beyond the borders of the US and the way they conduct themselves in the rest of the word.

As an FYI to qualify my statements I have also lived in South East Asia, The Far East, The Middle East, Africa and Europe in the last 20 years so I have been lucky to see diversity from several sides.
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Reply #22 posted 03/07/10 10:36am

deebee

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xlr8r said:

Wasn't it The Today show with Matt Lauer?

Not if it was the Matt Lauer interview around the time Musicology came out. I went looking for the clip this morning and watched that one, but the 'cracker' comment wasn't in it. I'm intrigued to see it since this thread came up! razz
"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #23 posted 03/07/10 11:00am

HatrinaHaterwi
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Well, considering the word "cracker" can be defined without it being offensive, I would have to say no to the OP's initial question because it would depend on the intent of the person who said it.

Whereas in contrast, the N-word was intended as a racial slur at its very inception and is defined as such, in spite of various efforts to diminish it's strength.
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Reply #24 posted 03/07/10 4:12pm

Tame

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I Love the movie, "Oh Brother Wherefore Art Thou."

I think it's George Clooney that says..."This guy will pay U a lot of money to sing into his can." And the mayor goes..."I didn't come here to make a record ya dumb cracker."

I thought it was funny. Other than this movie, I've never heard anyone call anyone this. cool
"The Lion Sleeps Tonight...
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Reply #25 posted 03/08/10 3:39am

XxAxX

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davidoff1966 said:

XxAxX said:



no, it isn't.

and, i doubt that your comment is based on personal, travel, experience.
if it were, you would be aware that 1) america is far more culturally and ethnically diverse than most countries on the planet, thus lending itself to more social and cultural clashes; and 2) there are countries that are far, far more racist than america. japan for one comes to mind. there are others, but why don't you check out japan's history of racist oppression against the koreans born on japanese soil even today, and then get back to us with your findings? smile


1. I have spent much of the last 5 years in the USA.
2. If you had read the statement it said one of the most racist in the developed world. Pointing to another nation that has a poor record does not remove that of America.
3. As far as the USA being culturally diverse goes I would agree that those of many nations live there. However the USA in my experience is not so good at accepting differing cultures and ideals. Mostly they want those there to assimilate TOTALLY in to the US way of being. In fact that also goes beyond the borders of the US and the way they conduct themselves in the rest of the word.

As an FYI to qualify my statements I have also lived in South East Asia, The Far East, The Middle East, Africa and Europe in the last 20 years so I have been lucky to see diversity from several sides.


perhaps empirical data would be more effective than your opinion, in this case.

without meaning to argue against your opinion, i would like to point out that, over let's say the past twenty years of human history, other countries around the world have waged genocidal wars, killing hundreds of thousands of people based on their religion, skin tone and ethnicity, like rwanda for example.

the united states has not had anything so outright racially 'charged' like that in recent history. nor has the US been part of a plot to wipe out jewish folks, as germany was not so long ago. nor have we had the rioting on the streets so unpleasantly occurring in france as the muslims rage against the french machine, for example. we have had relative peace, despite our many cultural differences. no genocide.

to me, this data is a more effective measurement of what is occurring 'racially' than your personal perceptions and opinion, but that is just me.

thanks for listening.
[Edited 3/8/10 3:42am]
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Reply #26 posted 03/08/10 4:14am

davidoff1966

XxAxX said:

davidoff1966 said:



1. I have spent much of the last 5 years in the USA.
2. If you had read the statement it said one of the most racist in the developed world. Pointing to another nation that has a poor record does not remove that of America.
3. As far as the USA being culturally diverse goes I would agree that those of many nations live there. However the USA in my experience is not so good at accepting differing cultures and ideals. Mostly they want those there to assimilate TOTALLY in to the US way of being. In fact that also goes beyond the borders of the US and the way they conduct themselves in the rest of the word.

As an FYI to qualify my statements I have also lived in South East Asia, The Far East, The Middle East, Africa and Europe in the last 20 years so I have been lucky to see diversity from several sides.


perhaps empirical data would be more effective than your opinion, in this case.


without meaning to argue against your opinion, i would like to point out that, over let's say the past twenty years of human history, other countries around the world have waged genocidal wars, killing hundreds of thousands of people based on their religion, skin tone and ethnicity, like rwanda for example.

the united states has not had anything so outright racially 'charged' like that in recent history. nor has the US been part of a plot to wipe out jewish folks, as germany was not so long ago. nor have we had the rioting on the streets so unpleasantly occurring in france as the muslims rage against the french machine, for example. we have had relative peace, despite our many cultural differences. no genocide.

to me, this data is a more effective measurement of what is occurring 'racially' than your personal perceptions and opinion, but that is just me.

thanks for listening.
[Edited 3/8/10 3:42am]


1. Again did you read my initial comment. I said "developed" world so that rules out Rwanda as a comparison..
2. Are you serious that the US has not had anything racially charged in recent history? Seriously?

Oh and I love the way you tell me I have no basis for my opinion because I probably have not spent time there and when I disprove that idea you then tell me that my opinion means nothing. You could have just said that instead of trying to discredit my opinion in the first place. If you are disinterested in the opinion of others in the world at large then fine. However please don't try and say it is based on nothing when what you really mean is you are not interested.
[Edited 3/8/10 4:19am]
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Reply #27 posted 03/08/10 4:24am

deebee

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XxAxX said:

davidoff1966 said:



1. I have spent much of the last 5 years in the USA.
2. If you had read the statement it said one of the most racist in the developed world. Pointing to another nation that has a poor record does not remove that of America.
3. As far as the USA being culturally diverse goes I would agree that those of many nations live there. However the USA in my experience is not so good at accepting differing cultures and ideals. Mostly they want those there to assimilate TOTALLY in to the US way of being. In fact that also goes beyond the borders of the US and the way they conduct themselves in the rest of the word.

As an FYI to qualify my statements I have also lived in South East Asia, The Far East, The Middle East, Africa and Europe in the last 20 years so I have been lucky to see diversity from several sides.


perhaps empirical data would be more effective than your opinion, in this case.

without meaning to argue against your opinion, i would like to point out that, over let's say the past twenty years of human history, other countries around the world have waged genocidal wars, killing hundreds of thousands of people based on their religion, skin tone and ethnicity, like rwanda for example.

the united states has not had anything so outright racially 'charged' like that in recent history. nor has the US been part of a plot to wipe out jewish folks, as germany was not so long ago. nor have we had the rioting on the streets so unpleasantly occurring in france as the muslims rage against the french machine, for example. we have had relative peace, despite our many cultural differences. no genocide.

to me, this data is a more effective measurement of what is occurring 'racially' than your personal perceptions and opinion, but that is just me.

thanks for listening.
[Edited 3/8/10 3:42am]

I think you could work this into a slogan: 'The US of A: proud to be genocide-free since 1890.' flag
"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #28 posted 03/08/10 6:40am

deadmansbones

I've never even heard of that expression before! eek confused
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Reply #29 posted 03/08/10 10:05am

XxAxX

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davidoff1966 said:

XxAxX said:



perhaps empirical data would be more effective than your opinion, in this case.


without meaning to argue against your opinion, i would like to point out that, over let's say the past twenty years of human history, other countries around the world have waged genocidal wars, killing hundreds of thousands of people based on their religion, skin tone and ethnicity, like rwanda for example.

the united states has not had anything so outright racially 'charged' like that in recent history. nor has the US been part of a plot to wipe out jewish folks, as germany was not so long ago. nor have we had the rioting on the streets so unpleasantly occurring in france as the muslims rage against the french machine, for example. we have had relative peace, despite our many cultural differences. no genocide.

to me, this data is a more effective measurement of what is occurring 'racially' than your personal perceptions and opinion, but that is just me.

thanks for listening.
[Edited 3/8/10 3:42am]


1. Again did you read my initial comment. I said "developed" world so that rules out Rwanda as a comparison..
2. Are you serious that the US has not had anything racially charged in recent history? Seriously?

Oh and I love the way you tell me I have no basis for my opinion because I probably have not spent time there and when I disprove that idea you then tell me that my opinion means nothing. You could have just said that instead of trying to discredit my opinion in the first place. If you are disinterested in the opinion of others in the world at large then fine. However please don't try and say it is based on nothing when what you really mean is you are not interested.
[Edited 3/8/10 4:19am]


all righty then. agree to disagree. peace
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