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Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’ http://www.sfgate.com/cgi...e=politics
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Elsewhere, Freddie Mac is giving its chief financial officer compensation worth as much as $5.5 million, including a $2 million signing bonus. The government-controlled mortgage finance company doesn't have to follow the executive compensation rules because it is being paid outside the TARP.
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GOOD. About damm time. the wealthy in this country need to be neutered.... 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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So now even when he wants to control a company on one of its most basic level. | |
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OnlyNDaUsa said: So now even when he wants to control a company on one of its most basic level.
Companies that took tax payer bailout. Suck off Obama's tits, you gotta deal with the chaffing from the bra 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: OnlyNDaUsa said: So now even when he wants to control a company on one of its most basic level.
Companies that took tax payer bailout. Suck off Obama's tits, you gotta deal with the chaffing from the bra was such a control a condition of the money? | |
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OnlyNDaUsa said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Companies that took tax payer bailout. Suck off Obama's tits, you gotta deal with the chaffing from the bra was such a control a condition of the money? who cares. The right thing was done. 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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I don't know about this...
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins | |
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savoirfaire said: I don't know about this...
On the one hand I don't think any business should have their pay restricted by the government, that's obviously too much intervention... But the real issue here is CEOs are getting massive amounts of money by taking huge short-term risks for massive short-term profits that are detrimental to the bottom line over a couple of decades and end up hurting the company more than helping it. But CEOs work on short lifespans generally, collect big and then move on before the real damage shows itself. I do feel incentives need to stop being based on single-year results, and need to better reflect the direction a company is going in the longterm, but I don't know how that could be regulated. It's worth noting that executive pay was around 30 - 40 times the wage of the average worker up to the 80s, but in recent years that number has skyrocketed to 160 TIMES THE WAGE OF THE AVERAGE WORKER. Clearly companies need to put more priority on the long term health of their business, and massive compensation levels do nothing to help that. But I really don't know where government can say they deserve to be the arbitrators of that. These companies took taxpayer money and their actions hurt more than the company but the entire country. I have zero issue with someone who begs for handouts from the government being made to play by the people's rules ESPECIALLY since many of these companies have money to give bonuses out. If you have money for bonuses, maybe you didn't need help in the first place..... 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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People should make as much money as they are worth, I only have a problem with businesses that are using the bailout money to pay themselves off the top. That’s disgusting.
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: savoirfaire said: I don't know about this...
On the one hand I don't think any business should have their pay restricted by the government, that's obviously too much intervention... But the real issue here is CEOs are getting massive amounts of money by taking huge short-term risks for massive short-term profits that are detrimental to the bottom line over a couple of decades and end up hurting the company more than helping it. But CEOs work on short lifespans generally, collect big and then move on before the real damage shows itself. I do feel incentives need to stop being based on single-year results, and need to better reflect the direction a company is going in the longterm, but I don't know how that could be regulated. It's worth noting that executive pay was around 30 - 40 times the wage of the average worker up to the 80s, but in recent years that number has skyrocketed to 160 TIMES THE WAGE OF THE AVERAGE WORKER. Clearly companies need to put more priority on the long term health of their business, and massive compensation levels do nothing to help that. But I really don't know where government can say they deserve to be the arbitrators of that. These companies took taxpayer money and their actions hurt more than the company but the entire country. I have zero issue with someone who begs for handouts from the government being made to play by the people's rules ESPECIALLY since many of these companies have money to give bonuses out. If you have money for bonuses, maybe you didn't need help in the first place..... I would say fair enough, except the original post says the Fed proposal would cover thousands of banks, including many that never received a bailout. But the central bank would not actually set compensation. Instead, the Fed would review — and could veto — pay policies that could cause too much risk-taking by executives, traders or loan officers. So non-bailed-out companies will also be affected by this. [Edited 10/22/09 16:15pm] "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins | |
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savoirfaire said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: These companies took taxpayer money and their actions hurt more than the company but the entire country. I have zero issue with someone who begs for handouts from the government being made to play by the people's rules ESPECIALLY since many of these companies have money to give bonuses out. If you have money for bonuses, maybe you didn't need help in the first place..... I would say fair enough, except the original post says the Fed proposal would cover thousands of banks, including many that never received a bailout. But the central bank would not actually set compensation. Instead, the Fed would review — and could veto — pay policies that could cause too much risk-taking by executives, traders or loan officers. So non-bailed-out companies will also be affected by this. [Edited 10/22/09 16:15pm] It also said... "the goal was to tie compensation more closely to the long-term performance of the company" That I don't have a problem with because companies shouldn't be laying off workers and making all kinds of cutbacks that effect their consumers, if they can afford to give their executives millions on top of millions in perks and bonuses! Of course, I'm a Liberal! I'm an American, damn it!
This country was founded on the premise of Liberty and Justice for ALL...remember? My wallet is STILL on hiatus! ![]() | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: OnlyNDaUsa said: was such a control a condition of the money? who cares. The right thing was done. The right thing? So you do not care if obama breaks the law to steal the money from people? Would you approve if he did this to companies that did not take any money? | |
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OnlyNDaUsa said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: who cares. The right thing was done. The right thing? So you do not care if obama breaks the law to steal the money from people? Would you approve if he did this to companies that did not take any money? If said companies are responsible for the crash of the economy, absolutely. 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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HatrinaHaterwitz said: It also said... "the goal was to tie compensation more closely to the long-term performance of the company" That I don't have a problem with because companies shouldn't be laying off workers and making all kinds of cutbacks that effect their consumers, if they can afford to give their executives millions on top of millions in perks and bonuses! that is a decision that the company has the power to make not the government. | |
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OnlyNDaUsa said: HatrinaHaterwitz said: It also said... "the goal was to tie compensation more closely to the long-term performance of the company" That I don't have a problem with because companies shouldn't be laying off workers and making all kinds of cutbacks that effect their consumers, if they can afford to give their executives millions on top of millions in perks and bonuses! that is a decision that the company has the power to make not the government. When a citizen goes on welfare there are all KINDS of conditions. Why should a corporation not receive equal treatment when they get on welfare? 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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HatrinaHaterwitz said: savoirfaire said: I would say fair enough, except the original post says the Fed proposal would cover thousands of banks, including many that never received a bailout. But the central bank would not actually set compensation. Instead, the Fed would review — and could veto — pay policies that could cause too much risk-taking by executives, traders or loan officers. So non-bailed-out companies will also be affected by this. [Edited 10/22/09 16:15pm] It also said... "the goal was to tie compensation more closely to the long-term performance of the company" That I don't have a problem with because companies shouldn't be laying off workers and making all kinds of cutbacks that effect their consumers, if they can afford to give their executives millions on top of millions in perks and bonuses! That I don't have a problem with either. I work for such a company that's always putting the screws to its employees and making constant cutbacks. I'm seriously not sure what they have left to squeeze out of the budget but they've laid off almost a quarter of their workforce in the last year because their profit, while still sizeable is down from 2007, and I'm worried our operations are taking a longterm hit as a result of it. So I can certainly relate to that, but I just have no idea how such regulation could be implemented/monitored by anyone, private or government. I mean, it's not like we can pay CEOs 25 years from now if they did a good job. So, as I don't know and have never heard a good solution to this problem, it's a hard thing for me to support. [Edited 10/22/09 17:14pm] "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins | |
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Although I don't agree with the executives of failing companies being handsomely rewarded, I also am in shock that the government can dictate who gets paid what?!? - that doesn't seem right. Wake up!......Wake up! | |
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savoirfaire said: That I don't have a problem with either. So you are NOT for a free market. You want the government to regulate companies to make sure that the pay scale is fair bottom to top. So when someone says "obama wants to take over the private sector" you should say "GOOD!" | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: When a citizen goes on welfare there are all KINDS of conditions. Why should a corporation not receive equal treatment when they get on welfare? Yeah and all those conditions are spelled out. And none of those mean that you do not have to pay the debts you have already contracted to pay. | |
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shellyann said: Although I don't agree with the executives of failing companies being handsomely rewarded, I also am in shock that the government can dictate who gets paid what?!? - that doesn't seem right.
It all depends on if the agreement to take the money included these conditions and that those conditions were disclosed and accepted by the person's who's pay would be cut. Now I have accepted government that came with strings. Some grants and a loan. But non of those conditions changed any pre-existing contracts or obligations I had with 3rd parties. This seems to me to be a case of retroactive forced re-negotiation. | |
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OnlyNDaUsa said: savoirfaire said: That I don't have a problem with either. So you are NOT for a free market. You want the government to regulate companies to make sure that the pay scale is fair bottom to top. So when someone says "obama wants to take over the private sector" you should say "GOOD!" Boy oh boy, you should really quote my entire post, including the significant 'BUT' qualifier to it. I am for a free market, but even the most free free markets of the US since the depression have had regulations, necessary regulations to ensure people don't get screwed over, scammed or ripped-off. So if you're attacking any and all regulations that have ever existed in the US, yes, I will disagree with you and say some need to be in place, obviously. But if you read my post, which includes the statement of "I just have no idea how such regulation could be implemented/monitored by anyone, private or government" you would hopefully realize that my support of such a concept could be self-mandated by businesses as well and I don't support any sort of hypotheticals as those would be unfair. And I will add I would ideally like to say such CEO incentives come from within businesses, not any government source, and even if the US did come up with a really good plan with specific quantitative measures and evaluators in place to determine proper bonus incentives for companies based on long-term results, they would need to be good enough that companies understood their value as well and were embraced, not pushed down their throats involuntarily. In these situations, I would think a great many stakeholders in various companies would understand the value better than relatively small group that is the board of executives. "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins | |
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OnlyNDaUsa said: shellyann said: Although I don't agree with the executives of failing companies being handsomely rewarded, I also am in shock that the government can dictate who gets paid what?!? - that doesn't seem right.
It all depends on if the agreement to take the money included these conditions and that those conditions were disclosed and accepted by the person's who's pay would be cut. Now I have accepted government that came with strings. Some grants and a loan. But non of those conditions changed any pre-existing contracts or obligations I had with 3rd parties. This seems to me to be a case of retroactive forced re-negotiation. Good point! If the bailout had those conditions, than I guess they would have to abide by the government conditions.Still, a 90% decrease in pay? I know I couldn't do that. Truthfully, I don't think some companies should have been bailed out in the first place! We are becoming a culture (country) of dependence.Business owners used to have the freedom to run their business and the freedom to succeed or fail.I guess now if you fail...you are owned! Wake up!......Wake up! | |
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shellyann said: OnlyNDaUsa said: It all depends on if the agreement to take the money included these conditions and that those conditions were disclosed and accepted by the person's who's pay would be cut. Now I have accepted government that came with strings. Some grants and a loan. But non of those conditions changed any pre-existing contracts or obligations I had with 3rd parties. This seems to me to be a case of retroactive forced re-negotiation. Good point! If the bailout had those conditions, than I guess they would have to abide by the government conditions.Still, a 90% decrease in pay? I know I couldn't do that. Truthfully, I don't think some companies should have been bailed out in the first place! We are becoming a culture (country) of dependence.Business owners used to have the freedom to run their business and the freedom to succeed or fail.I guess now if you fail...you are owned! And that is ENTIRELY on the companies. they need the government and therefore nobody has any right to be bitching about what is happening to them. 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: And that is ENTIRELY on the companies. they need the government and therefore nobody has any right to be bitching about what is happening to them. so it is okay to change the terms of any contract retroactively? | |
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OnlyNDaUsa said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: And that is ENTIRELY on the companies. they need the government and therefore nobody has any right to be bitching about what is happening to them. so it is okay to change the terms of any contract retroactively? Yea, right, you are truly stretching it!...I have a difficult time believing that the government would have any right to radically change the conditions.- That would be like dictatorship/communism which is completely against our American values, our constitution and our freedoms!It would be completely unpatriotic, and unpatriotic, my friend, our country is not! Wake up!......Wake up! | |
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shellyann said: OnlyNDaUsa said: so it is okay to change the terms of any contract retroactively? Yea, right, you are truly stretching it!...I have a difficult time believing that the government would have any right to radically change the conditions.- That would be like dictatorship/communism which is completely against our American values, our constitution and our freedoms!It would be completely unpatriotic, and unpatriotic, my friend, our country is not! Quite the cheerleader you have there OnlyNDaUsa. Anyway, Shellyann's right. unpatriotic, your country is not. Of course, your country isn't patriotic either, as patriotism is an attribute to an individual with regards to their country and cannot be attributed to the entity of a nation. And then again, a communist or one with no freedoms at all could also be patriotic towards their country. But I like how it was said with conviction! "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins | |
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OnlyNDaUsa said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: And that is ENTIRELY on the companies. they need the government and therefore nobody has any right to be bitching about what is happening to them. so it is okay to change the terms of any contract retroactively? In this case HELL GODDAMN YES. People are jobless, the economy was pushed to the brink and THESE ARE THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT. They're lucky they aren't in jail. 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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savoirfaire said: shellyann said: Yea, right, you are truly stretching it!...I have a difficult time believing that the government would have any right to radically change the conditions.- That would be like dictatorship/communism which is completely against our American values, our constitution and our freedoms!It would be completely unpatriotic, and unpatriotic, my friend, our country is not! Quite the cheerleader you have there OnlyNDaUsa. Anyway, Shellyann's right. unpatriotic, your country is not. Of course, your country isn't patriotic either, as patriotism is an attribute to an individual with regards to their country and cannot be attributed to the entity of a nation. And then again, a communist or one with no freedoms at all could also be patriotic towards their country. But I like how it was said with conviction! I think Patriotism is in part standing up for your country. If you and I disagree on what is best, then we are both patriotic. We just disagree on what is best. What is weird is that some (okay I do it too) think that just because someone disagree that they are 1) not too smart or 2) want people to suffer! we just disagree....damn it! (if someone comes in and say I am not being honest I am going to drown puppy in a cartoon and show it to a little British girl) | |
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OnlyNDaUsa said: savoirfaire said: Quite the cheerleader you have there OnlyNDaUsa. Anyway, Shellyann's right. unpatriotic, your country is not. Of course, your country isn't patriotic either, as patriotism is an attribute to an individual with regards to their country and cannot be attributed to the entity of a nation. And then again, a communist or one with no freedoms at all could also be patriotic towards their country. But I like how it was said with conviction! I think Patriotism is in part standing up for your country. If you and I disagree on what is best, then we are both patriotic. We just disagree on what is best. What is weird is that some (okay I do it too) think that just because someone disagree that they are 1) not too smart or 2) want people to suffer! we just disagree....damn it! (if someone comes in and say I am not being honest I am going to drown puppy in a cartoon and show it to a little British girl) I know that, and am not disagreeing with that. Just the assertion that "our country is not" unpatriotic and then the country becoming communist "would be completely unpatriotic" makes no sense, if one knows what patriotism means. A nation (as in, the United States of America) cannot be patriotic or unpatriotic. The people in a nation, however, can. The assertion of this just made me chuckle. Like something George Bush would say, where he's trying to be all "Yeah, go America!" but getting his language mixed up with hilarious results. "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins | |
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