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Senate rejects public option http://www.nytimes.com/20....html?_r=1
WASHINGTON — After an intense debate that captured the essence of the national struggle over health care, a pivotal Senate committee on Tuesday rejected two Democratic proposals to create a government insurance plan to compete with private insurers.
The votes, in the Senate Finance Committee, underscored divisions among Democrats and were a setback for President Obama, who has endorsed the public plan as a way to “keep insurance companies honest.” The first proposal, by Senator John D. Rockefeller IV of West Virginia, was rejected 15 to 8, as five Democrats joined all Republicans on the panel in voting no. The second proposal, by Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York, was defeated 13 to 10, with three Democrats voting no. The votes vindicated the middle-of-the-road approach taken by the committee chairman, Senator Max Baucus, Democrat of Montana. Mr. Baucus voted against both proposals, which were offered as amendments to his bill to expand coverage and rein in health costs. First sign of threadjacking will be met with swift retribution. I think we can now say they public option is in serious danger of being dropped completely. Will Obama sack up and say these words "I promised the American People a public option. I will veto any bill that does not have one?" Will any senators find the guts to put meaningful public options into a bill? Simple, to the point, and lives up to his words. (Except the words that promoted single payer before he abandoned that, before he nudged the public option on the whole in front of a bus). This is untoward! This is not toward! |
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It's been interesting watching things unfold ~ |
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The TRUTH.......only exist in 1 form.
The TRUTH. | |
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damn it! I had a great quote from george washington but it doesn't fit here. | |
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Shorty said:  God DAMN there are a lot of dumb motherfuckers walking around! - George Carlin
Stalkerwomen of the world unite in delusion!!!!!  | |
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I think it all sounds worse than it is.
"I think one of the things that we're probably proudest of -- I certainly am -- is that the message was always love, in any form we portrayed it." - Paul McCartney | |
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Vendetta1 said: Shorty said: because I do not believe it will create competition...rather it will squash all competition (private insurance) out of business leaving us with NO option other than Govt. insurance. damn it! I had a great quote from george washington but it doesn't fit here. | |
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Shorty said: Vendetta1 said: why are you against a public option shorty?
because I do not believe it will create competition...rather it will squash all competition (private insurance) out of business leaving us with NO option other than Govt. insurance. I'd rather have only one government option, than many "for profit" options. Anytime you're dealing with those private insurance companies, you're putting your life on the line against their profit motives. Single payer would get them completely out of the game, so we have to make it slow and painful with the "public option." I'd sign up on day one and hope that in a few years, those private insurance companies are dead. "Greed is Good." -Gordon Gekko | |
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ShinNihonKikou said: Shorty said: because I do not believe it will create competition...rather it will squash all competition (private insurance) out of business leaving us with NO option other than Govt. insurance. I'd rather have only one government option, than many "for profit" options. Anytime you're dealing with those private insurance companies, you're putting your life on the line against their profit motives. Single payer would get them completely out of the game, so we have to make it slow and painful with the "public option." I'd sign up on day one and hope that in a few years, those private insurance companies are dead.  wow...you REALLY trust the Govt. that much huh?
becareful what you wish for. damn it! I had a great quote from george washington but it doesn't fit here. | |
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Shorty said: ShinNihonKikou said: I'd rather have only one government option, than many "for profit" options. Anytime you're dealing with those private insurance companies, you're putting your life on the line against their profit motives. Single payer would get them completely out of the game, so we have to make it slow and painful with the "public option." I'd sign up on day one and hope that in a few years, those private insurance companies are dead. wow...you REALLY trust the Govt. that much huh?
becareful what you wish for. We have trusted the private market for 30 years, the country is in flames. 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Shorty said: wow...you REALLY trust the Govt. that much huh?
becareful what you wish for. We have trusted the private market for 30 years, the country is in flames. You always got all your eggs in one basket supa....it's all or nothing with you. I guess I just don't think that way. damn it! I had a great quote from george washington but it doesn't fit here. | |
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Shorty said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: We have trusted the private market for 30 years, the country is in flames. You always got all your eggs in one basket supa....it's all or nothing with you. I guess I just don't think that way. It holds 8,764 dozen!  2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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Shorty said: Vendetta1 said: why are you against a public option shorty?
because I do not believe it will create competition...rather it will squash all competition (private insurance) out of business leaving us with NO option other than Govt. insurance. God DAMN there are a lot of dumb motherfuckers walking around! - George Carlin
Stalkerwomen of the world unite in delusion!!!!! | |
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Shorty said: Vendetta1 said: why are you against a public option shorty?
because I do not believe it will create competition...rather it will squash all competition (private insurance) out of business leaving us with NO option other than Govt. insurance. that's why they leave the option to opt out and choose a private company. borrowing the fantasy the right has created that private companies are better, and that the right will put it's money where it's mouth is and choose private, means that the govt insurance will be a competitor. but of course it is highly likely that the fantasy will quickly deflate and most of the right will choose the gov't option, forcing private companies to either be far less greedy and actually deliver the product they promise or to fold. if the right is correct, they won't fold. the gov't helthcare does not replace all insurance, it simply provides a sensible and comprehensive working option that will end the gouging and cheating. but it is far more likely that the right is bullshitting as usual, and since many in politics are in the pocket of the hugely profitible healthcare companies, they are going to try to keep the fantasy and lies alive as long as they can. it's greed at the cost of the public's health. . [Edited 9/30/09 14:39pm] "passing strange"... experience the real
http://www.youtube.com/wa...NFbc7gLzQE | |
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Single Payer or Bust. "...I will go to the animal shelter and get you a kitty cat. I will let you fall in love...with that kitty cat. And then on some dark, cold night I will steal away into your home...and punch you in the face!" |
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When United Healthcare posts a 2nd Quarter PROFIT of 170 Million Dollars over last years 2nd quarter I...
b) have little doubt that they'll ever truly go out of business/ vanish from the face of the earth. That will NEVER happen... These lines are painfully telling of their motivation... Most of the growth has come from United Health Care’s lines of business outside of its health maintenance organization segment. Accounts from those businesses pay higher premiums. At the same time, the company has exited certain markets where it caters to older customers on Medicare, a business that’s not as profitable. http://www.marketwatch.co...-climbs-26 REGISTER FOR SECRET SANTA 2009!! Go here NOW ---> http://prince.org/msg/100/323760
 YOU ONLY HAVE 3 (THREE!!) FREAKIN' DAYS TO SIGN UP!!!!!!
A working class hero is something to be... | |
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RenHoek said: When United Healthcare posts a 2nd Quarter PROFIT of 170 Million Dollars over last years 2nd quarter I...
a) feel we DESPERATELY NEED a public option. b) have little doubt that they'll ever truly go out of business/ vanish from the face of the earth. That will NEVER happen.. 
I am ALL for hte public option, but have no plans to change my insurance provider. But the providers need to be taken to task and stop denying health care to the sick and only accepting the "healthy" with no pre-existing conditions. "I think one of the things that we're probably proudest of -- I certainly am -- is that the message was always love, in any form we portrayed it." - Paul McCartney | |
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DiminutiveRocker said: RenHoek said: When United Healthcare posts a 2nd Quarter PROFIT of 170 Million Dollars over last years 2nd quarter I...
a) feel we DESPERATELY NEED a public option. b) have little doubt that they'll ever truly go out of business/ vanish from the face of the earth. That will NEVER happen..
I am ALL for hte public option, but have no plans to change my insurance provider. But the providers need to be taken to task and stop denying health care to the sick and only accepting the "healthy" with no pre-existing conditions. Totally agree!! We're with Kaiser Permanente to the tune of $1200 a month and I would just like to see them compete with the Gov't so we can get that shit dropped to maybe $700 or less... That's all I want Americans to have is AN OPTION!! REGISTER FOR SECRET SANTA 2009!! Go here NOW ---> http://prince.org/msg/100/323760
YOU ONLY HAVE 3 (THREE!!) FREAKIN' DAYS TO SIGN UP!!!!!!
A working class hero is something to be... | |
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RenHoek said: DiminutiveRocker said:
I am ALL for hte public option, but have no plans to change my insurance provider. But the providers need to be taken to task and stop denying health care to the sick and only accepting the "healthy" with no pre-existing conditions. Totally agree!! We're with Kaiser Permanente to the tune of $1200 a month and I would just like to see them compete with the Gov't so we can get that shit dropped to maybe $700 or less... That's all I want Americans to have is AN OPTION!! 
P.S. I'm with Kaiser too! "I think one of the things that we're probably proudest of -- I certainly am -- is that the message was always love, in any form we portrayed it." - Paul McCartney | |
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Shorty said: wow...you REALLY trust the Govt. that much huh?
becareful what you wish for. well it works in all other industrialized nations  is the American goverment so much worse? corrupt? dumb? what is it?
health care is not something that should be open to reckless competition. health care is not something that should be used to gain profits for anyone. break even is all you need. we don't have competition reagarding courts, police or fire departments. no one asks for private police and courts, in order to raise the quality or to make profits. justice and security needs to be provided for everyone, not just the ones who can afford it. same goes for health care. at least in all civilized nations it does. if your goverment does not care enough about you to grant you these basics, then you have some serious issue. than there is no point in having a goverment at all. . [Edited 10/1/09 0:31am] “Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.” Han Solo
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. " Susan B. Anthony | |
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Dancelot said: Shorty said: wow...you REALLY trust the Govt. that much huh?
becareful what you wish for. well it works in all other industrialized nations is the American goverment so much worse? corrupt? dumb? what is it?
health care is not something that should be open to reckless competition. health care is not something that should be used to gain profits for anyone. break even is all you need. we don't have competition reagarding courts, police or fire departments. no one asks for private police and courts, in order to raise the quality or to make profits. justice and security needs to be provided for everyone, not just the ones who can afford it. same goes for health care. at least in all civilized nations it does. if your goverment does not care enough about you to grant you these basics, then you have some serious issue. than there is no point in having a goverment at all. . [Edited 10/1/09 0:31am] Keyword, ALL. Every wealthy nation has it, and even the worst of them have better health care that costs less.
I understand that people are concerned that this restricts capitalism to some extent, but if there was any thing that we shouldn't be gambling with for profit, it's people's lives and health. Check out this link: http://www.businessweek.c...=rss_daily It says that 62% of ALL bankruptcies in the US were associated with medical expenses. But, even worse than that, some of you people will jump to the conclusion that these people weren't responsible and decided to not buy health insurance (never mind those that can't afford it). But no, a whopping 78% of those people HAD HEALTH INSURANCE. Never mind the irresponsible who don't buy it. Never mind the poor who can't afford it. Stable, middle class people that think they are safe, AREN'T. That's the scariest part. It's not right. Everyone deserves health care that doesn't cripple their finances, and yet it seems as though NOBODY is guaranteed it, as companies will do every possible thing in their power to deny it. "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins | |
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savoirfaire said: It says that 62% of ALL bankruptcies in the US were associated with medical expenses. But, even worse than that, some of you people will jump to the conclusion that these people weren't responsible and decided to not buy health insurance (never mind those that can't afford it). But no, a whopping 78% of those people HAD HEALTH INSURANCE.
I know, I posted those scary numbers in the past. yes, HIGHLY SCARY! I don't have exact Austrian numbers at hand, but I estimate that the percentage of private bankrupcies associated with medical expenses here are around... approxiamtely... somewhere... close to... zero?  like it should be “Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.” Han Solo
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. " Susan B. Anthony | |
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DiminutiveRocker said: RenHoek said: Totally agree!! We're with Kaiser Permanente to the tune of $1200 a month and I would just like to see them compete with the Gov't so we can get that shit dropped to maybe $700 or less... That's all I want Americans to have is AN OPTION!!
P.S. I'm with Kaiser too! I was born and raised under Kaiser and I WANT THEM TO BE THE PUBLIC OPTION!!! It's the least we could do and I think they're fuckin' amazing!!! REGISTER FOR SECRET SANTA 2009!! Go here NOW ---> http://prince.org/msg/100/323760
YOU ONLY HAVE 3 (THREE!!) FREAKIN' DAYS TO SIGN UP!!!!!!
A working class hero is something to be... | |
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lazycrockett said: Single Payer or Bust.
how do you think we should transition to single payer? damn it! I had a great quote from george washington but it doesn't fit here. | |
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Dancelot said: Shorty said: wow...you REALLY trust the Govt. that much huh?
becareful what you wish for. well it works in all other industrialized nations is the American goverment so much worse? corrupt? dumb? what is it?
health care is not something that should be open to reckless competition. health care is not something that should be used to gain profits for anyone. break even is all you need. we don't have competition reagarding courts, police or fire departments. no one asks for private police and courts, in order to raise the quality or to make profits. justice and security needs to be provided for everyone, not just the ones who can afford it. same goes for health care. at least in all civilized nations it does. if your goverment does not care enough about you to grant you these basics, then you have some serious issue. than there is no point in having a goverment at all. . [Edited 10/1/09 0:31am] corrupt...yes. I agree...healthcare should not be for profit. Your examples though of not having competition for courts....ahh yeah, ofcourse not. and police and fire arel locally funded. It's totally different. we don't have a national police force or a federal fire force. and people who want more security DO hire private security. Same goes, you can get a "free" lawyer out of our system but if you want a better lawyer you gotta pay for it. I'm not saying that's how healthcare should be...just pointing out your examples are not such great examples. In theroy single payer or the public option sound great. I just do not believe they will be....great at all. I believe we'll have even higher taxes and even more bureaucracy with little to no change in our healthcare over all. damn it! I had a great quote from george washington but it doesn't fit here. | |
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cborgman said: that's why they leave the option to opt out and choose a private company.
I do not think that will actually be an option, or if it is...only for a limited time cborgman said: borrowing the fantasy the right has created that private companies are better, and that the right will put it's money where it's mouth is and choose private, means that the govt insurance will be a competitor.
first of all...I think you're twisting things by saying that the right says private companies are better, and they will put there money where there mouth is.... Do you think all "right wing" or republicans are wealthy? secondly I feel the govt. is too large to be a fair competitor. Perhaps on the state level? I don't know. cborgman said: but of course it is highly likely that the fantasy will quickly deflate and most of the right will choose the gov't option, forcing private companies to either be far less greedy and actually deliver the product they promise or to fold. if the right is correct, they won't fold.
forcing private companies out of business....leaving us what? Only the "public" option. not much of an option when it's the only one. Correct me if I'm wrong (I do not claim to be anything close to an expert on this) but I do believe if the right is correct they WILL fold....not the other way around. cborgman said: the gov't helthcare does not replace all insurance, it simply provides a sensible and comprehensive working option that will end the gouging and cheating.
I don't believe this will be the case. I believe it WILL replace all insurance cborgman said: but it is far more likely that the right is bullshitting as usual, and since many in politics are in the pocket of the hugely profitible healthcare companies, they are going to try to keep the fantasy and lies alive as long as they can.
it's greed at the cost of the public's health. let's not pretend that greed is only a right sided problem...there are just as many people on the left controlled by greed as there is on the right. damn it! I had a great quote from george washington but it doesn't fit here. | |
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Mars23 said: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/health/policy/30health.html?_r=1
WASHINGTON — After an intense debate that captured the essence of the national struggle over health care, a pivotal Senate committee on Tuesday rejected two Democratic proposals to create a government insurance plan to compete with private insurers.
The votes, in the Senate Finance Committee, underscored divisions among Democrats and were a setback for President Obama, who has endorsed the public plan as a way to “keep insurance companies honest.” The first proposal, by Senator John D. Rockefeller IV of West Virginia, was rejected 15 to 8, as five Democrats joined all Republicans on the panel in voting no. The second proposal, by Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York, was defeated 13 to 10, with three Democrats voting no. The votes vindicated the middle-of-the-road approach taken by the committee chairman, Senator Max Baucus, Democrat of Montana. Mr. Baucus voted against both proposals, which were offered as amendments to his bill to expand coverage and rein in health costs. First sign of threadjacking will be met with swift retribution. I think we can now say they public option is in serious danger of being dropped completely. Will Obama sack up and say these words "I promised the American People a public option. I will veto any bill that does not have one?" Will any senators find the guts to put meaningful public options into a bill? Simple, to the point, and lives up to his words. (Except the words that promoted single payer before he abandoned that, before he nudged the public option on the whole in front of a bus). (.... and before he continued the wiretapping program, and before he raises taxes for middle class....the list goes on and on) | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Shorty said: wow...you REALLY trust the Govt. that much huh?
becareful what you wish for. We have trusted the private market for 30 years, the country is in flames. You have trusted a Private Market that has operated under great restraints of federal regulation you mean.... | |
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cborgman said: Shorty said: because I do not believe it will create competition...rather it will squash all competition (private insurance) out of business leaving us with NO option other than Govt. insurance. that's why they leave the option to opt out and choose a private company. borrowing the fantasy the right has created that private companies are better, and that the right will put it's money where it's mouth is and choose private, means that the govt insurance will be a competitor. but of course it is highly likely that the fantasy will quickly deflate and most of the right will choose the gov't option, forcing private companies to either be far less greedy and actually deliver the product they promise or to fold. if the right is correct, they won't fold. the gov't helthcare does not replace all insurance, it simply provides a sensible and comprehensive working option that will end the gouging and cheating. but it is far more likely that the right is bullshitting as usual, and since many in politics are in the pocket of the hugely profitible healthcare companies, they are going to try to keep the fantasy and lies alive as long as they can. it's greed at the cost of the public's health. . [Edited 9/30/09 14:39pm] You either don't have a clue, or are neglecting it. There is no fantasy in the thought that private companies run things better than federal plans....Obama himself made that comparison in his analogy with the Post Office vs. Fedex.... | |
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seekingtruth said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: We have trusted the private market for 30 years, the country is in flames. You have trusted a Private Market that has operated under great restraints of federal regulation you mean.... You mean like the repeal of the Glass Steegle act that prevented banks and investment houses from coming together and which allowed the banks to create elaborate CDOs that were legally off limits from regulation or scrutiny? We had Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 and Republican Majority for 12 years and you mean to tell me virtually a Republican lockhold on the country allowed crippling regulation? you need a new user name. 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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