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Printable version (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)OldFriens4Sal, you reminded me of the story of Job which some religions talk about more than others as a way to see that hard times are not punishment or even a cruel testing by God.
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dollwoman said: OldFriens4Sal, you reminded me of the story of Job which some religions talk about more than others as a way to see that hard times are not punishment or even a cruel testing by God.
The reason I bring all this up is because some people bring up crimes, ilnesses and natural disaster's as proof that God does not exist or if he does he is a cruel God or indifferent at best. You remain me of Genesis love.  | |
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dollwoman said: OldFriens4Sal, you reminded me of the story of Job which some religions talk about more than others as a way to see that hard times are not punishment or even a cruel testing by God.
The reason I bring all this up is because some people bring up crimes, ilnesses and natural disaster's as proof that God does not exist or if he does he is a cruel God or indifferent at best. But without people that do these things or these experiences to occur in life..one may not learn anything. Life is nothing but a learning experience. Thats part of the human life. We are just heare to grow and to experience. We are able to do all that we humanly can do INCLUDING killing someone because we have to have these things in our physical capability. Where would the animals be if they did not eat eachother and only ate the land before them? Where would we be? Would we exsist? Where would we be if indeed there were no murders or crime in the world? People take away so many things that are negative about humanity forgetting that we of the future have benefit from it. Without aborions would stem cell research exsist? Lord knows what things may come once we find out how to cure Aids and Cancer? What have we learned from it already? Im pretty sure Our spiritual side are not concerned about the petty things we learn on Earth because they already know, they watch us and wait for us to join them again back Home where we always have been. We are all part of God..and God is a part of us. We are not seperate. Nothing is. It's up to you to gain your experience and knowledge to grow spiritually and accept the negatives and benefits. Without people making up the Devil we wouldnt be so spiritually enlightened today. What do we gain from knowing all on Earth? When we say that the purpose of life is to find God, surely that desire to find God is an escape from life -Conciouscontact
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paisleypark4 said: dollwoman said: OldFriens4Sal, you reminded me of the story of Job which some religions talk about more than others as a way to see that hard times are not punishment or even a cruel testing by God.
The reason I bring all this up is because some people bring up crimes, ilnesses and natural disaster's as proof that God does not exist or if he does he is a cruel God or indifferent at best. But without people that do these things or these experiences to occur in life..one may not learn anything. Life is nothing but a learning experience. Thats part of the human life. We are just heare to grow and to experience. We are able to do all that we humanly can do INCLUDING killing someone because we have to have these things in our physical capability. Where would the animals be if they did not eat eachother and only ate the land before them? Where would we be? Would we exsist? Where would we be if indeed there were no murders or crime in the world? People take away so many things that are negative about humanity forgetting that we of the future have benefit from it. Without aborions would stem cell research exsist? Lord knows what things may come once we find out how to cure Aids and Cancer? What have we learned from it already? Im pretty sure Our spiritual side are not concerned about the petty things we learn on Earth because they already know, they watch us and wait for us to join them again back Home where we always have been. We are all part of God..and God is a part of us. We are not seperate. Nothing is. It's up to you to gain your experience and knowledge to grow spiritually and accept the negatives and benefits. Without people making up the Devil we wouldnt be so spiritually enlightened today. What do we gain from knowing all on Earth? I don't know, I hear what your saying, but in this I think our minds are really to small to comprehend what could be or what the world would be like if Adam & Eve never ate the fruit, will/would the universe be open to us in a free way, would we be able to attain a celestial body? Are there other world where people are going thru what we are? (And according to the Hebrew/Christian bible when the believers are resurrected/glorified given bodies that are celestial will we along with angels be like ambassadors to the universe... I just think, our time on earth is so short that I don't think we can fathom what could be I can say that in the scriptures "Let us not do evil that good may come" I don't want children/babies to be molested so I could learn something I don't want people to experience rape and violence so I could learn something There are some sick evil twisted people out there, I know things are happening as we speak, but do I really need for evil to happen so I learn from it? Now where I come from
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dollwoman said: OldFriens4Sal, you reminded me of the story of Job which some religions talk about more than others as a way to see that hard times are not punishment or even a cruel testing by God.
The reason I bring all this up is because some people bring up crimes, ilnesses and natural disaster's as proof that God does not exist or if he does he is a cruel God or indifferent at best. Thank you dollwoman I'm reminded of something Jesus asked his disciples: there was a tower that fell over and some people were hurt and some died. He asked was this because of sin committed by the people? Because many do come to the conclusion that it is. And He basically answered, in this world sometimes stuff just happens. Now where I come from
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OldFriends4Sale said: dollwoman said: OldFriens4Sal, you reminded me of the story of Job which some religions talk about more than others as a way to see that hard times are not punishment or even a cruel testing by God.
The reason I bring all this up is because some people bring up crimes, ilnesses and natural disaster's as proof that God does not exist or if he does he is a cruel God or indifferent at best. Thank you dollwoman I'm reminded of something Jesus asked his disciples: there was a tower that fell over and some people were hurt and some died. He asked was this because of sin committed by the people? Because many do come to the conclusion that it is. And He basically answered, in this world sometimes stuff just happens. God is not a person. it is a state of mind and a spirit if you really think about. BTW, Jesus Christ didn't really choose his disciples well, but his life was pre-destinated so  . What do you think OldFriends4Sale??? | |
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OldFriends4Sale said: paisleypark4 said: But without people that do these things or these experiences to occur in life..one may not learn anything. Life is nothing but a learning experience. Thats part of the human life. We are just heare to grow and to experience. We are able to do all that we humanly can do INCLUDING killing someone because we have to have these things in our physical capability. Where would the animals be if they did not eat eachother and only ate the land before them? Where would we be? Would we exsist? Where would we be if indeed there were no murders or crime in the world? People take away so many things that are negative about humanity forgetting that we of the future have benefit from it. Without aborions would stem cell research exsist? Lord knows what things may come once we find out how to cure Aids and Cancer? What have we learned from it already? Im pretty sure Our spiritual side are not concerned about the petty things we learn on Earth because they already know, they watch us and wait for us to join them again back Home where we always have been. We are all part of God..and God is a part of us. We are not seperate. Nothing is. It's up to you to gain your experience and knowledge to grow spiritually and accept the negatives and benefits. Without people making up the Devil we wouldnt be so spiritually enlightened today. What do we gain from knowing all on Earth? I don't know, I hear what your saying, but in this I think our minds are really to small to comprehend what could be or what the world would be like if Adam & Eve never ate the fruit, will/would the universe be open to us in a free way, would we be able to attain a celestial body? Are there other world where people are going thru what we are? (And according to the Hebrew/Christian bible when the believers are resurrected/glorified given bodies that are celestial will we along with angels be like ambassadors to the universe... I just think, our time on earth is so short that I don't think we can fathom what could be I can say that in the scriptures "Let us not do evil that good may come" I don't want children/babies to be molested so I could learn something I don't want people to experience rape and violence so I could learn something There are some sick evil twisted people out there, I know things are happening as we speak, but do I really need for evil to happen so I learn from it? It is a part of life that has been happening since the beginnings of time. All emotions, feelings have been done already. You may not benefit from the things that happen to people, however the life changing experience to one may change another's life in retrospect. I don't think shows like Forensic Files and CSI would exsist if things like this never happened to people. Scientists have learned a great amount of things from people that have based their lives on violence. It may not be the best way of looking it at but ask yourself again..what do we gain or experience if we are just a walking vegetable? How would some businesses still run or survive? Without somebody mudering Jesus would people try to 'better themselves' based on the life Christ wanted us to live? For example, I have seen my best friends mom mudered in front of my eyes and her children's eyes...as horrible as that was their lives were changed. One stopped living out on the streets and has her own home now...one moved to Texas and has a good job, the other joined him, it also brought their family closer. The whole thing is like you said, beyond our apprehension and view however I feel at least there is something to gain from everything that is sacraficed in this world. No matter how tough and hard it is to face. [Edited 7/10/09 6:57am] When we say that the purpose of life is to find God, surely that desire to find God is an escape from life -Conciouscontact
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NastradumasKid said: OldFriends4Sale said: Thank you dollwoman I'm reminded of something Jesus asked his disciples: there was a tower that fell over and some people were hurt and some died. He asked was this because of sin committed by the people? Because many do come to the conclusion that it is. And He basically answered, in this world sometimes stuff just happens. God is not a person. it is a state of mind and a spirit if you really think about. BTW, Jesus Christ didn't really choose his disciples well, but his life was pre-destinated so . What do you think OldFriends4Sale???I believe God is a person (Just not in a finite way like man) God is a person(ality) a state of mind is just something made up or created by a human. Jesus choose them(12 Apostles)well... in what way do you mean? Judas the one who betrayed him? Judas problem was that he believed in the Messiah as the King who would deliver the Jews from Roman dictatorship, The hebrew scriptures in Isaiah had a dual prophesy of the coming Messiah the 1st half dealt with the Messiahs 1st advent(the Messiah coming on a colt to bring salvation) the 2nd half dealt with the Messiahs 2nd(the 2nd Coming of Christ on the white horse with the armies of heaven) Judas only saw the 2nd part and missed the full exp of salvation Judas brought a level of politics into the Messiahs plans(which is why I detest any kind of political dealings in the church) Now where I come from
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paisleypark4 said: OldFriends4Sale said: I don't know, I hear what your saying, but in this I think our minds are really to small to comprehend what could be or what the world would be like if Adam & Eve never ate the fruit, will/would the universe be open to us in a free way, would we be able to attain a celestial body? Are there other world where people are going thru what we are? (And according to the Hebrew/Christian bible when the believers are resurrected/glorified given bodies that are celestial will we along with angels be like ambassadors to the universe... I just think, our time on earth is so short that I don't think we can fathom what could be I can say that in the scriptures "Let us not do evil that good may come" I don't want children/babies to be molested so I could learn something I don't want people to experience rape and violence so I could learn something There are some sick evil twisted people out there, I know things are happening as we speak, but do I really need for evil to happen so I learn from it? It is a part of life that has been happening since the beginnings of time. All emotions, feelings have been done already. You may not benefit from the things that happen to people, however the life changing experience to one may change another's life in retrospect. I don't think shows like Forensic Files and CSI would exsist if things like this never happened to people. Scientists have learned a great amount of things from people that have based their lives on violence. It may not be the best way of looking it at but ask yourself again..what do we gain or experience if we are just a walking vegetable? How would some businesses still run or survive? Without somebody mudering Jesus would people try to 'better themselves' based on the life Christ wanted us to live? For example, I have seen my best friends mom mudered in front of my eyes and her children's eyes...as horrible as that was their lives were changed. One stopped living out on the streets and has her own home now...one moved to Texas and has a good job, the other joined him, it also brought their family closer. The whole thing is like you said, beyond our apprehension and view however I feel at least there is something to gain from everything that is sacraficed in this world. No matter how tough and hard it is to face. I hear you, but we would have to question: is God limited because God doesn't know sin from an experience perspective? Or does that go back to even God learning about sin from the experiences of others? I gottcha, "All thing work together for the good of them that love the Lord" Now where I come from
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OldFriends4Sale said: paisleypark4 said: It is a part of life that has been happening since the beginnings of time. All emotions, feelings have been done already. You may not benefit from the things that happen to people, however the life changing experience to one may change another's life in retrospect. I don't think shows like Forensic Files and CSI would exsist if things like this never happened to people. Scientists have learned a great amount of things from people that have based their lives on violence. It may not be the best way of looking it at but ask yourself again..what do we gain or experience if we are just a walking vegetable? How would some businesses still run or survive? Without somebody mudering Jesus would people try to 'better themselves' based on the life Christ wanted us to live? For example, I have seen my best friends mom mudered in front of my eyes and her children's eyes...as horrible as that was their lives were changed. One stopped living out on the streets and has her own home now...one moved to Texas and has a good job, the other joined him, it also brought their family closer. The whole thing is like you said, beyond our apprehension and view however I feel at least there is something to gain from everything that is sacraficed in this world. No matter how tough and hard it is to face. I hear you, but we would have to question: is God limited because God doesn't know sin from an experience perspective? Or does that go back to even God learning about sin from the experiences of others? I gottcha, "All thing work together for the good of them that love the Lord" God does not have to learn from a human, humans are a creation of everything that "god" is...feelings air and all. That's where sin is even conflicted...how can we have the experiences we have if God did not want us to have them? Is not our very lives written the way they are supposed to be? This is where 'sin' is definitley in my opinion made by man to actually stop us from harming eachother. If God did not want us to do something we would not be allowed for it to be. Everything we are able to do on Earth is here for the better or for the worse. Some have done so much harm to themselves they don't know how to leave...but that's another subject. I hear the 10 Commandments were origianlly the Ten Commitments...somehow translation obviously changed alot of things...who knows who really made that up? To have a God that is so human that "he" would "harm us" in our spiritual realm makes life not worth living. I feel sorry for the Monks  When we say that the purpose of life is to find God, surely that desire to find God is an escape from life -Conciouscontact
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NastradumasKid said: OldFriends4Sale said: Thank you dollwoman I'm reminded of something Jesus asked his disciples: there was a tower that fell over and some people were hurt and some died. He asked was this because of sin committed by the people? Because many do come to the conclusion that it is. And He basically answered, in this world sometimes stuff just happens. God is not a person. it is a state of mind and a spirit if you really think about. BTW, Jesus Christ didn't really choose his disciples well, but his life was pre-destinated so . What do you think OldFriends4Sale???I hope you don't mind if I interject and say a few words. God is a Spirit in existance. Everything on this earth and the paths that you take doesn't happen by accident. It has been predestined. God laid the blue print, and we're just living it out. When you look into the Lord' Prayer before he was crucified, it is evident in scripture that Jesus did not pick his disciples. The Holy Father did and Jesus mission was to go along with it so He can fulfil the prophecies that the prophets preached of Him. Judas was a devil from the beginning. He was never saved. Jesus called him out on it, and if you want book, chapter, and verse, I have it if you like. His purpose in the ministry is to again: fulfil prophecy. | |
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Why have humans invented God? The enemy is not the other, the enemy is you. | |
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Who Created The Universe?
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paisleypark4,
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dollwoman said: paisleypark4,
I just want to comment if I may on your sentence "If God did not want us to do something we would not be allowed for it to be." My first thought was that God asked that we pray to him "Our Father" and Jesus also referred to him as Father. It is my preferred name for him. Parents sometimes must allow their children to do the exact thing that they the parents do not want them to do. It is a part of allowing them to grow. Yes, we wish that our words of caution did not fall on deaf ears. But ultimately despite our wise words our children learn often best by their own mistakes. I believe that our Father in heaven also has great things in store for us that we will have and achieve as we grow. I think we are given free will so that we take a greater responsibility in our own destiny and maybe with that ability to take on a greater load of responsibility will come a greater power in shaping it. I did not get this thought out of anything I read just my own thoughts. I believe, like a good parent, Our Father will give us more priveledges as we show more responsibility (ie, taking better care of our neighbors and the world we live in) God is no more going to hand over a greater level of existence to a selfish human race then your parents were going to hand over the car keys to you when you still couldn't figure out how to share and threw temper tantrums. I like this, Ya'll is gettin deep I'll add something when I get home later Now where I come from
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dollwoman said: paisleypark4,
I just want to comment if I may on your sentence "If God did not want us to do something we would not be allowed for it to be." My first thought was that God asked that we pray to him "Our Father" and Jesus also referred to him as Father. It is my preferred name for him. Parents sometimes must allow their children to do the exact thing that they the parents do not want them to do. It is a part of allowing them to grow. Yes, we wish that our words of caution did not fall on deaf ears. But ultimately despite our wise words our children learn often best by their own mistakes. I believe that our Father in heaven also has great things in store for us that we will have and achieve as we grow. I think we are given free will so that we take a greater responsibility in our own destiny and maybe with that ability to take on a greater load of responsibility will come a greater power in shaping it. I did not get this thought out of anything I read just my own thoughts. I believe, like a good parent, Our Father will give us more priveledges as we show more responsibility (ie, taking better care of our neighbors and the world we live in) God is no more going to hand over a greater level of existence to a selfish human race then your parents were going to hand over the car keys to you when you still couldn't figure out how to share and threw temper tantrums. I like your thoery too. I havent met alot of people who have the same vision you do. Your vision is the way I wish people who are religious would see it. However they are so stuck on doing what the old book says they can't envision any other path or think on theor own...however if one was to only do what 'the book' says we would not be where we are today. God did not only put "christianity" on this earth for us to be simple minded. Everything is working in the way "god" intended us to be. God already given us all the tools to be self righteous with our short time on Earth. The promised land is already here and will be here ...and wherever God wants our souls to be next. When we say that the purpose of life is to find God, surely that desire to find God is an escape from life -Conciouscontact
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Yes, (imo) there is a "God".
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SirPsycho said: Yes, (imo) there is a "God".
have any of us the intellectual fortitude to describe/define "God" without attributing the animal-like characteristics that permeate our existance (therein misleading ourselves and other about said "God")? i dont think so. but i dont think that makes "God" less real. I think that just reafirms how human humans are. i am christian, but my (i said "my" as an indicator of how i understand/relate to "God") "God" is not. i posses the ability to hate and hold bias, but my "God" does not. i am subject to change, and lack of faithfulness, but my "God" is not. i know this because i've considered the promises all (theistic) faiths have attributed to "God", and i've been attentive enough to observe their fulfillment- at least as i can account for in my life. my facebook stat from thurs: Matthew Sah Jenifer honestly believes: from birth, forward- God carries ever last one of us home to reunite with Him/Her. Yet WE, as a collective of beings, choose to fill our lives with either misery (see: war, mutually imposed suffering) or peace (see: harmony, as brought about connectedness and spiritual revolution). | |
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I know God is alive and real else why do I get mad at him from time to time? 
"   LOVE YOU 4EVA GRANDMA LOLA, WATCH OVER US TILL WE MEET AGAIN.  PRINCE: WH3N U L3T TH3 RAIN FALL DOWN, TH3Y ALL GONNA G3T W3T! | |
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SirPsycho said: Yes, (imo) there is a "God".
have any of us the intellectual fortitude to describe/define "God" without attributing the animal-like characteristics that permeate our existance (therein misleading ourselves and other about said "God")? i dont think so. but i dont think that makes "God" less real. I think that just reafirms how human humans are. i am christian, but my (i said "my" as an indicator of how i understand/relate to "God") "God" is not. i posses the ability to hate and hold bias, but my "God" does not. i am subject to change, and lack of faithfulness, but my "God" is not. i know this because i've considered the promises all (theistic) faiths have attributed to "God", and i've been attentive enough to observe their fulfillment- at least as i can account for in my life. Its exactly that....we are human with wants and needs to fufill our destinies some look to religions, some cast out the cults all together...some realise it early on..some dont at all. Some are mis educated, and some arent. Thats the way everything is supposed to be...if we werent ...we would be our eternal God souls just being ..not creating or experiencing When we say that the purpose of life is to find God, surely that desire to find God is an escape from life -Conciouscontact
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God is a great spirit I just wish it listen more. Can God walk among us as a human? | |
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DesireeNevermind said: I know God is alive and real else why do I get mad at him from time to time?
We will all know the truth when we die. Some of us know the truth as we live. God is purpose, without purpose there is no life and there is no reason. Life exists whether there is a purpose or not. Since our lives are empty we want to find a purpose to life and strive for it. When we say that the purpose of life is to find God, surely that desire to find God is an escape from life. We do not understand ourselves or life so we look to God to open the door to what is beyond because most of us are incapable of facing ourselves as we are. The enemy is not the other, the enemy is you. | |
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ConsciousContact said: DesireeNevermind said: I know God is alive and real else why do I get mad at him from time to time?
We will all know the truth when we die. Some of us know the truth as we live. God is purpose, without purpose there is no life and there is no reason. Life exists whether there is a purpose or not. Since our lives are empty we want to find a purpose to life and strive for it. When we say that the purpose of life is to find God, surely that desire to find God is an escape from life. We do not understand ourselves or life so we look to God to open the door to what is beyond because most of us are incapable of facing ourselves as we are.  
Exactly. Sadly there are millions that just don't know any better, however its the path they are supposed to be in  When we say that the purpose of life is to find God, surely that desire to find God is an escape from life -Conciouscontact
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ConsciousContact said: DesireeNevermind said: I know God is alive and real else why do I get mad at him from time to time?
We will all know the truth when we die. Some of us know the truth as we live. God is purpose, without purpose there is no life and there is no reason. Life exists whether there is a purpose or not. Since our lives are empty we want to find a purpose to life and strive for it. When we say that the purpose of life is to find God, surely that desire to find God is an escape from life. We do not understand ourselves or life so we look to God to open the door to what is beyond because most of us are incapable of facing ourselves as we are. i understand what your saying here but when facing the unadulterated truth of all that i am- coupled with all that life has yielded for me in spite of this, points directly to the existence of a "God" but then again, i dont take well to the phrase "finding God" either. it's not a question of "finding" to me. to believe in(or even"find") the ground i walk on is to believe in "God". again- to me. | |
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rather i should say- the fullness not the emptiness of my life- points to "God". | |
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SirPsycho said: rather i should say- the fullness not the emptiness of my life- points to "God".
Yes, there is no reason to live if you are empty, and void of life. You are just "exsisting". We have trees for that. [Edited 7/14/09 12:31pm] When we say that the purpose of life is to find God, surely that desire to find God is an escape from life -Conciouscontact
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NastradumasKid said: I have second thoughts at times but does God have any true existence to anyone?
I believe in higher power so I guess I'm going to hell  . The God that everyone knows and loves doesn't exist in my world, God is neither man or women,
it's apowerful being that has my life all set up, the most people believe frightens me, especially the whole gays are going burn in hell theory. I don't have a religion I just believe in a higher being and that's that. 
[Edited 7/1/09 20:54pm] No one knows Gods gender that I'll agree with. The gay issue doesn't have a thing to do with God that's about religion - an organized approach to human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices. may u live 2 see the dawn | |
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I believe with all my heart & soul that there is a god. Recently I was saved & babtised after spending a week in the hospital with severe depression. After I was saved I had spiritual dreams (beautiful dreams). Then I felt just like an angel, a Earth Angel. Then God started testing my faith in his word. I started reading in hyper mode all about the holy spirit and the bible. So far I have passed every test God threw at me. Now I feel blessed beyond my dreams & I feel I earned 5 star beautiful wings. I also feel if I live by Gods word I will truly go to heaven and still have my pretty wings or better yet, be God's child there. I know now what Prince means about the afterworld and everlasting life. I have his symbol tattooed on my ankle. It's my only tattoo. I would love to talk with Prince about this experience I've had. Believe in Angels & Believe in God. Love God with all your heart & soul because he will bless you! | |
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AngelLeah said: I believe with all my heart & soul that there is a god. Recently I was saved & babtised after spending a week in the hospital with severe depression. After I was saved I had spiritual dreams (beautiful dreams). Then I felt just like an angel, a Earth Angel. Then God started testing my faith in his word. I started reading in hyper mode all about the holy spirit and the bible. So far I have passed every test God threw at me. Now I feel blessed beyond my dreams & I feel I earned 5 star beautiful wings. I also feel if I live by Gods word I will truly go to heaven and still have my pretty wings or better yet, be God's child there. I know now what Prince means about the afterworld and everlasting life. I have his symbol tattooed on my ankle. It's my only tattoo. I would love to talk with Prince about this experience I've had. Believe in Angels & Believe in God. Love God with all your heart & soul because he will bless you!
Just Pray to him, thank him for everything he does and don't forget to thank his son Jesus Christ who died for us all. if there isn t a God you could be wasting your time. The enemy is not the other, the enemy is you. | |
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