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Printable version (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)Is there an 'I'? Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Mythmaking Moonbattery of Obamanation. Chains We Can Bereave In LIBERALISM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY | |
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HiinEnkelte said: Is there an 'I'?
Is it possible for the 'I' to experience God? Or does the 'I' have to be dissolved before the immeasurable can be experienced? The enemy is not the other, the enemy is you. | |
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ConsciousContact said: HiinEnkelte said: Is there an 'I'?
Is it possible for the 'I' to experience God? Or does the 'I' have to be dissolved before the immeasurable can be experienced? I do not believe the I has to dissolved/annihilated before one can experience God. I already believe that God is tri-une, social in His reality, and His overflowing and creative abundance does not begrudge real otherness, but rather establishes it, and that it/they can know and and delight in Him, and be transformed from glory to glory. "Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." --2 Cor 3:14-18 So as i see it, this is most truly 'the I' ("The eye in wonder, The eye that sees, The "I" that loves you  ),
when the I becomes in reality what it is in truth (to put in hegelese). God does not stand over and against the I. He is for (your) you, not against (your) you. ((but) is that Krishnamurti in your avie?) [Edited 7/7/09 13:44pm] Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Mythmaking Moonbattery of Obamanation. Chains We Can Bereave In LIBERALISM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY | |
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HiinEnkelte said: ConsciousContact said: Is it possible for the 'I' to experience God? Or does the 'I' have to be dissolved before the immeasurable can be experienced? I do not believe the I has to dissolved/annihilated before one can experience God. I already believe that God is tri-une, social in His reality, and His overflowing and creative abundance does not begrudge real otherness, but rather establishes it, and that it/they can know and and delight in Him, and be transformed from glory to glory. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. 2 Cor 3:14-18 So as i see it, this is most truly 'the I' ("The eye in wonder, The eye that sees, The "I" that loves you ),
when the I becomes in reality what it is in truth (to put in hegelese). God does not stand over and against the I. He is for (your) you, not against (your) you. ((but) is that Krishnamurti in your avie?) What meaning do you give to the word God? Yes, that is Krishnaji. The enemy is not the other, the enemy is you. | |
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ConsciousContact said: HiinEnkelte said: I do not believe the I has to dissolved/annihilated before one can experience God. I already believe that God is tri-une, social in His reality, and His overflowing and creative abundance does not begrudge real otherness, but rather establishes it, and that it/they can know and and delight in Him, and be transformed from glory to glory. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. 2 Cor 3:14-18 So as i see it, this is most truly 'the I' ("The eye in wonder, The eye that sees, The "I" that loves you ),
when the I becomes in reality what it is in truth (to put in hegelese). God does not stand over and against the I. He is for (your) you, not against (your) you. ((but) is that Krishnamurti in your avie?) What meaning do you give to the word God? Yes, that is Krishnaji. I don't really feel like *I* give the word meaning. Over different contexts I will ultimately make use of the whole semantic range of meanings that the word already has. Welcome to the New World Odor and
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ConsciousContact said: HiinEnkelte said: Is there an 'I'?
Is it possible for the 'I' to experience God? Or does the 'I' have to be dissolved before the immeasurable can be experienced? This is coming from the Hebrew scripture from the prophets Isaiah & Ezekiel concerning Lucifer:Bearer of Light (now known as Satan) he was an angelic being:Cherub and like all other angelic beings, and individual unique and gifted. These 2 passages prove the I with God the I in a beautiful powerful way. Just not more powerful than the Creator Isaiah 12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Ezekiel 12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. Now where I come from
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Adam & Eve were the same
Now where I come from
We don't let society tell us how it's supposed 2 be Our clothes, our hair, we don't care It's all about being there... | |
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Its' bible study time already? 
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OldFriends4Sale said: Adam & Eve were the same
It's interesting when we've talk about knowledge and wisdom as far as adam goes verse 18 is really interesting because we see God excited to see what would come from Adam: it didn't say God named the various animals/fish/bird but Adam did. 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28And God blessed them 8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. 19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Aren't you a deep thinker. :hmm2; | |
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I'm guessing that if we were supposed to have everything figured out by now.....we would have. ...If in fact we did figure out the answer to your question. All existence on earth would be threatened.IMHO
"I watch the ripples change their size
But never leave the stream Of warm impermanence and So the days float through my eyes But still the days seem the same" - Changes, David Bowie | |
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kittylove said: NastradumasKid said: I have second thoughts at times but does God have any true existence to anyone?
I believe in higher power so I guess I'm going to hell  . The God that everyone knows and loves doesn't exist in my world, God is neither man or women,
it's apowerful being that has my life all set up, the most people believe frightens me, especially the whole gays are going burn in hell theory. I don't have a religion I just believe in a higher being and that's that. 
[Edited 7/1/09 20:54pm] Is there a Devil? Yep, God's fallen angel Lucifer. | |
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angel345 said: kittylove said: Is there a Devil? Yep, God's fallen angel Lucifer.  and he has absolute hatred for mankind so all the shit that's going wrong in the world can be laid at his paws/nubs. nasty mutherfuckerdemondoodoospirit
" LOVE YOU 4EVA GRANDMA LOLA, WATCH OVER US TILL WE MEET AGAIN. PRINCE: WH3N U L3T TH3 RAIN FALL DOWN, TH3Y ALL GONNA G3T W3T! | |
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Some people believe that God is a figment of people's imagination. I believe that people are a figment of God's imagination. | |
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dollwoman said: Some people believe that God is a figment of people's imagination. I believe that people are a figment of God's imagination.
Wow...I love that. Deep.
" LOVE YOU 4EVA GRANDMA LOLA, WATCH OVER US TILL WE MEET AGAIN. PRINCE: WH3N U L3T TH3 RAIN FALL DOWN, TH3Y ALL GONNA G3T W3T! | |
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OK try this... I've said this b4 2. Bring back  | |
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comegetwild said: OK try this... I've said this b4 2.
When U are young and U are first learning about right and wrong what do they tell U? They tell U, if U are a good boy or girl then Santa will bring U lots of nice things but if U are a bad boy or girl then the Bogeyman is gonna get U. Then, when U get older, U realise that there is no such thing as Santa or the Bogeyman, it's all just a lie 2 make U behave and U fell 4 it. Damn... 
But U have still gotta be kept in line, so what do they tell U then? They tell U, if U are a good man or woman then Gods gonna let U have lots of nice things but if U are bad man or woman then the Devil is gonna get U. And what do U do? U believe them all over again, no questions asked. 
It's a crock people, U want further proof? Google an image of God and then Google an image of Santa... It's the same damn guy in different clothes 4 4ks sake. Wake up children, there isn't much time.... How many people do you know came to believe in (the reality of) Santa or the Bogeyman after disbelieving in them for the first 20, 30, 40, 50 years of their lives? or persist in those beliefs beyond the age of 10? Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Mythmaking Moonbattery of Obamanation. Chains We Can Bereave In LIBERALISM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY | |
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comegetwild said: OK try this... I've said this b4 2.
When U are young and U are first learning about right and wrong what do they tell U? They tell U, if U are a good boy or girl then Santa will bring U lots of nice things but if U are a bad boy or girl then the Bogeyman is gonna get U. Then, when U get older, U realise that there is no such thing as Santa or the Bogeyman, it's all just a lie 2 make U behave and U fell 4 it. Damn...
But U have still gotta be kept in line, so what do they tell U then? They tell U, if U are a good man or woman then Gods gonna let U have lots of nice things but if U are bad man or woman then the Devil is gonna get U. And what do U do? U believe them all over again, no questions asked.
It's a crock people, U want further proof? Google an image of God and then Google an image of Santa... It's the same damn guy in different clothes 4 4ks sake. Wake up children, there isn't much time.... I was never taught to believe in Santa Claus, but I was told who St. Nicholas was. Never again, not I. | |
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HiinEnkelte said: How many people do you know came to believe in (the reality of) Santa or the Bogeyman after disbelieving in them for the first 20, 30, 40, 50 years of their lives?
or persist in those beliefs beyond the age of 10? If Santa and the Bogeyman were widely regarded as being true stories then they probably would. U have 2 remember that just because U believe in something doesn't make it absolute truth. Put aside what U have been taught 2 think and ask U're self what do we really know 4 absolute fact? We know that we live on a giant ball with an abundance of life and we are floating around a huge fireball in a unimaginably vast amount of space. We know that if there is a God he's not been physically around in a while and there are no signs of that changing in the near future. We know that regardless of whether there is life on other planets we are (4 now at least) completely alone out here. There are (At present) no physical influences that have a direct effect our future other than the ones that originate from the indigenous life on this planet. Don't U see? We don't have 2 follow anyone but ourselves... We are in control... Nobody else... Do U have any idea how liberating that information could be if we all embraced it? Only we can change the world. Bring back | |
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morningsong said: comegetwild said: OK try this... I've said this b4 2.
When U are young and U are first learning about right and wrong what do they tell U? They tell U, if U are a good boy or girl then Santa will bring U lots of nice things but if U are a bad boy or girl then the Bogeyman is gonna get U. Then, when U get older, U realise that there is no such thing as Santa or the Bogeyman, it's all just a lie 2 make U behave and U fell 4 it. Damn...
But U have still gotta be kept in line, so what do they tell U then? They tell U, if U are a good man or woman then Gods gonna let U have lots of nice things but if U are bad man or woman then the Devil is gonna get U. And what do U do? U believe them all over again, no questions asked.
It's a crock people, U want further proof? Google an image of God and then Google an image of Santa... It's the same damn guy in different clothes 4 4ks sake. Wake up children, there isn't much time.... I was never taught to believe in Santa Claus, but I was told who St. Nicholas was. Well, the Easter Bunny is real imo. Jesus Cyfer was my hero, I don't know who Jesus Christ is.  Does he like pizza and ice cream btw? | |
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NastradumasKid said: morningsong said: I was never taught to believe in Santa Claus, but I was told who St. Nicholas was. Well, the Easter Bunny is real imo. Jesus Cyfer was my hero, I don't know who Jesus Christ is. Does he like pizza and ice cream btw?Never taught about the Easter bunny, had my baskets handed to me on Easter, or the ToothFairy, though my dad did leave me money under my pillow when I left a tooth there, the fun was trying to figure when he did it. Did the same with my kids. Guess I never got jaded that way. Never again, not I. | |
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morningsong said: NastradumasKid said: Well, the Easter Bunny is real imo. Jesus Cyfer was my hero, I don't know who Jesus Christ is. Does he like pizza and ice cream btw?Never taught about the Easter bunny, had my baskets handed to me on Easter, or the ToothFairy, though my dad did leave me money under my pillow when I left a tooth there, the fun was trying to figure when he did it. Did the same with my kids. Guess I never got jaded that way. The point is not whether U believed in Santa, the tooth fairy or Alice through the looking glass... The point is, we are being lied 2, distracted and divided so that we stay docile and let real rulers of this planet run amok and milk us dry. We need a new breed of leader... Us. Bring back | |
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OldFriends4Sale said: babynoz said: What a beautiful story...I can relate. I'm a creative spirit too. As a tiny child, I used to draw on every blank surface in our house. Finally, my mother gave up and let me use the wall in the upstairs hallway to my heart's content. When I ran out of space I'd draw pictures on the bottom of the chairs and tables as well as adding characters and dialogue to my story-books. 
The sky remains an endless source of fascination for me, especially the night sky. For as long as I can remember the stars and the vast expanse of space have had a profound effect on me for whatever reason. As a kid, I used to lie on the grass or the hood of my mom's car for hours just gazing at the stars and I could name all the constellations. It seems that I can feel a sense of oneness in Spirit and the connectedness of creation that kind of takes me out of myself. What I experience at those times cannot be properly decribed in words. My favorite subjects are mythology, astronomy, science fiction, fantasy, astrology, art, music, dance, literature, history, (especially Egyptian)...and Princey too.
My family is Baptist but was never closed minded, (even when I joined the Episcopal church). My mom always encouraged my sense of curiousity and wonder and praised my creative expression in all it's forms. Nobody ever had a better mom! I don't know of any theologian who could interpret sacred writings and teachings as well as she could...including Eastern philosophic teachings. She was firmly grounded in sprituality and not limited by religious dogma or doctrine. As a result, my ideas of God and spirituality are somewhat unique although I still gladly partake in fellowship with others. For the most part, I'm equally comfortable in a Church, Temple, Mosque, or even silent meditation at the beach alone or with a group of people. Odd I guess...but I love being me! Wow, you sound a bit like me, You wouldn't happen to be a Gemini? I love Greek Etruscian/Roman Egyptian, various Native American mythology I study every ethnic group in the world to get a sense of the variety of color in the world ... the people of New Guinea and Australia are vary interesting right now... people who look like West/Central Africans but have straight/curly and kinky hair that ranges from platinum blond to black I also get inspiration from dances of ethnic groups, My family is Pentecostal I love Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, Blade Runner and a lot of science fiction We might have to connect The two of you had such cool mothers!!! I have a seven year old daughter and I wish I was THAT cool. I worry too much about what other people will say, just like my mother did, I thought I'd never do that, but I'm doing it. Thanks for reminding me to stop. | |
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comegetwild said: morningsong said: Never taught about the Easter bunny, had my baskets handed to me on Easter, or the ToothFairy, though my dad did leave me money under my pillow when I left a tooth there, the fun was trying to figure when he did it. Did the same with my kids. Guess I never got jaded that way. The point is not whether U believed in Santa, the tooth fairy or Alice through the looking glass... The point is, we are being lied 2, distracted and divided so that we stay docile and let real rulers of this planet run amok and milk us dry. We need a new breed of leader... Us. Well daddy told me long time ago, that anybody's mouth cut cross ways (horizontal) can lie, now if I ran into someone who's mouth cut up ways (vertical) I might be able to believe everything coming out of it. Given that my mouth is cut like everybody elses, I've found I lie to me just as bad as everybody else does. But I get what you're saying. Prove all things...so on and so forth. Never again, not I. | |
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I don't believe in God as a naturally existing being, like the sun, the earth, or the stars.
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DesireeNevermind said: angel345 said: Yep, God's fallen angel Lucifer. and he has absolute hatred for mankind so all the shit that's going wrong in the world can be laid at his paws/nubs. nasty mutherfuckerdemondoodoospiritBut pride, self-glorification and deception brought him down. | |
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angel345 said: DesireeNevermind said: and he has absolute hatred for mankind so all the shit that's going wrong in the world can be laid at his paws/nubs. nasty mutherfuckerdemondoodoospiritBut pride, self-glorification and deception brought him down. At least two Christian religions believe that Satan has control over the earth right now. They quote scripture but I do not have a Bible on me to quote it myself. Basically they believe that people followed Satan more then they followed God and that Satan lies to humanity. He convinces them that fornication and greed are O.K.. God allows man to choose between the voice of Satan and Himself. When Satan continues to fail them they may choose God. Anyway they also believe that Armegedon will bring about the face-off between God and Satan. Anyway it's a different way to look at what appears to some as God's indiffence. | |
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dollwoman said: angel345 said: But pride, self-glorification and deception brought him down. At least two Christian religions believe that Satan has control over the earth right now. They quote scripture but I do not have a Bible on me to quote it myself. Basically they believe that people followed Satan more then they followed God and that Satan lies to humanity. He convinces them that fornication and greed are O.K.. God allows man to choose between the voice of Satan and Himself. When Satan continues to fail them they may choose God. Anyway they also believe that Armegedon will bring about the face-off between God and Satan. Anyway it's a different way to look at what appears to some as God's indiffence. Well, the book of Revelations gives you more insight on Satan's rulership and the end of it. | |
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dollwoman said: angel345 said: But pride, self-glorification and deception brought him down. At least two Christian religions believe that Satan has control over the earth right now. They quote scripture but I do not have a Bible on me to quote it myself. Basically they believe that people followed Satan more then they followed God and that Satan lies to humanity. He convinces them that fornication and greed are O.K.. God allows man to choose between the voice of Satan and Himself. When Satan continues to fail them they may choose God. Anyway they also believe that Armegedon will bring about the face-off between God and Satan. Anyway it's a different way to look at what appears to some as God's indiffence. he is called the prince of the power of the air and the god of this world during the tempation of Jesus in the wilderness Satan showed him all the kingdoms of the world and said it was his to give... which is true Rulership of the earth was given to Adam & Eve, they gave over their authority when they submitted to Satans words and not Gods. Now where I come from
We don't let society tell us how it's supposed 2 be Our clothes, our hair, we don't care It's all about being there... | |
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comegetwild said: OK try this... I've said this b4 2.
When U are young and U are first learning about right and wrong what do they tell U? They tell U, if U are a good boy or girl then Santa will bring U lots of nice things but if U are a bad boy or girl then the Bogeyman is gonna get U. Then, when U get older, U realise that there is no such thing as Santa or the Bogeyman, it's all just a lie 2 make U behave and U fell 4 it. Damn...
But U have still gotta be kept in line, so what do they tell U then? They tell U, if U are a good man or woman then Gods gonna let U have lots of nice things but if U are bad man or woman then the Devil is gonna get U. And what do U do? U believe them all over again, no questions asked.
It's a crock people, U want further proof? Google an image of God and then Google an image of Santa... It's the same damn guy in different clothes 4 4ks sake. Wake up children, there isn't much time.... They tell U, if U are a good boy or girl then Santa will bring U lots of nice things but if U are a bad boy or girl then the Bogeyman is gonna get U. We always knew it was our parents to various degrees, and I was never taught that if you were a bad boy then the bogeyman is goona get u as far as Christmans is concerned. But I did hear about the bogeyman. That also came from people who were (bible taught christians too) They tell U, if U are a good man or woman then Gods gonna let U have lots of nice things but if U are bad man or woman then the Devil is gonna get U. And what do U do? U believe them all over again, no questions asked. Not in my faith: we are taught God rains on the just as well as the unjust we are taught "His goodness leads us to repentance or brings us to a place to know Him" I don't know who isn't asking the questions, but I know the crew I grew up with did. People teach a lot of superstitious things about 'Christianity' that isn't biblically founded People believe in a red devil with a pitch fork and horns(which actually comes from the idea of the Greek god Pan and the satyrs) but the bible never said that, and it did give us clear description of Lucifer. [Edited 7/9/09 10:48am] Now where I come from
We don't let society tell us how it's supposed 2 be Our clothes, our hair, we don't care It's all about being there... | |
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comegetwild said: HiinEnkelte said: How many people do you know came to believe in (the reality of) Santa or the Bogeyman after disbelieving in them for the first 20, 30, 40, 50 years of their lives?
or persist in those beliefs beyond the age of 10? If Santa and the Bogeyman were widely regarded as being true stories then they probably would. That's quite a big IF, now isn't it?...and to my point. The fact is that they are not regarded as such. U have 2 remember that just because U believe in something doesn't make it absolute truth.
You won't find a stronger champion of that than I. Put aside what U have been taught 2 think and ask U're self what do we really know 4 absolute fact?
Okay, done. And my answer is that God is, or i can know nothing.
We know that we live on a giant ball with an abundance of life and we are floating around a huge fireball in a unimaginably vast amount of space.
We know that if there is a God he's not been physically around in a while and there are no signs of that changing in the near future. We know that regardless of whether there is life on other planets we are (4 now at least) completely alone out here. There are (At present) no physical influences that have a direct effect our future other than the ones that originate from the indigenous life on this planet. really? how do you KNOW these things? and that you're not dreaming, and that reality is really quite different, or that your brain isn't in a vat in a lab somewhere, connected to a bunch of electrodes inducing this world that you "know", that you aren't in such a 'matrix'? upon whose authority do you accept such beliefs, and how does this constitute proof for yourself to call it FACT? Don't U see? We don't have 2 follow anyone but ourselves... We are in control... Nobody else... Do U have any idea how liberating that information could be if we all embraced it?
liberating?! why yes then! everything would be permissible, ...absurd, and ultimately pointless! Only we can change the world.
why change it, if i'm gettin' mine? . [Edited 7/9/09 9:56am] Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Mythmaking Moonbattery of Obamanation. Chains We Can Bereave In LIBERALISM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY | |
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