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Be Like Others: Transsexuals in Iran On HBO2W
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oh gosh i'm glad someone here brought this up. very interesting documentary |
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Have you seen it yet?
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Sundiata J., Prince fan extraordinaire. R.I.P., brother. | |
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Lammastide said: Have you seen it yet?
Definitely fascinating! And not only do the surgeries happen with amazing frequency in a place as religiously conservative as Iran, but the Iranian government actually funds them! I think I've heard that only Thailand has more gender reassignment surgeries per capita than Iran. I had an Iranian Lesbian friend explain to me that though gender reassignment is roundly considered a sin in Islam (because it alters Allah's creation), it at least furnishes a previously same-sex oriented person a new physical identity so that they can have sexual relationships along the male/female dichotomy. As you said, homosexuality is a GRAVE sin, and there is no tolerance for it. What I'd like to know is what about people who identify as heterosexual, yet have gender identity disorder? After a transition, they'd effectively be homosexual. Double sinners!  I feel so bad for them.A cleric in the documentary explained why it wasn't a sin. We all daily alter God's creations. | |
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SUPRMAN said: On HBO2W
A 2007 documentary. Fascinating that even in Iran men have sex changes and dress like women. But they have to have a permit to dress like a woman if they haven't had sex reassignment surgery. There is no tolerance of homosexuality. You cannot have a penis and dress as a woman without a permit. The permit is only temporary until you have the surgery! You beat me too this. I watched it last night. It's a sad documentary on many levels 1. forced surgery (and they use part of the colon wtf) 2. continued harassment even after the surgery 3. broken families (not all of the families approve of the surgery) 4. poor health care after the surgery. 5. some of these guys that have the operation end up losing their boyfriends anyway DUH. don't know about the women who have to have the surgery to be dudes. 6. high unemployment whether they have the surgery or not. 7. Unacceptance of homosexuals by transexuals. but on the other hand Iran recognized gender dysmorphia or rather that's what they think homosexuality is. They are moving in some sort of direction of tolerance I suppose. And to further ponder, isnt' practically everything either masculine or feminine? I mean if you are gay in Iran and you know that they don't tolerate it then why wouldn't you have the surgery if you indeed like to dress as a woman, put on make up and act feminine in public. It wasn't clear from the documentary how many of these guys (and there was only one woman) didn't really want the surgery. It was a bit jumbled IMO but well worth watching. 
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SUPRMAN said: Lammastide said: Have you seen it yet?
Definitely fascinating! And not only do the surgeries happen with amazing frequency in a place as religiously conservative as Iran, but the Iranian government actually funds them! I think I've heard that only Thailand has more gender reassignment surgeries per capita than Iran. I had an Iranian Lesbian friend explain to me that though gender reassignment is roundly considered a sin in Islam (because it alters Allah's creation), it at least furnishes a previously same-sex oriented person a new physical identity so that they can have sexual relationships along the male/female dichotomy. As you said, homosexuality is a GRAVE sin, and there is no tolerance for it. What I'd like to know is what about people who identify as heterosexual, yet have gender identity disorder? After a transition, they'd effectively be homosexual. Double sinners! I feel so bad for them.A cleric in the documentary explained why it wasn't a sin. We all daily alter God's creations. While I might agree with him, I'd be interested in hearing his talking points, because just about every Sunni cleric I've encountered takes a more traditional hardline approach against this level of alteration. It's not quite as casual as changing a hair color. 
Since we're talking Iran, though, I'm guessing that the movie -- and the cleric you speak of -- is representative of Shi'a teachings, which have taken a surprisingly more progressive approach to gender identity in the past few decades. It's somewhat heartening (even as I think it leverages slightly decreasing transphobia with stronger homophobia)... but unfortunately the Shi'a only represent about 15% of Muslims worldwide. [Edited 6/24/09 22:41pm] ________________
Sundiata J., Prince fan extraordinaire. R.I.P., brother. | |
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Lammastide said: SUPRMAN said: A cleric in the documentary explained why it wasn't a sin. We all daily alter God's creations. While I might agree with him, I'd be interested in hearing his talking points, because just about every Sunni cleric I've encountered takes a more traditional hardline approach against this level of alteration. It's not quite as casual as changing a hair color. Since we're talking Iran, though, I'm guessing that the movie -- and the cleric you speak of -- is representative of Shi'a teachings, which have taken a surprisingly more progressive approach to gender identity in the past few decades. It's somewhat heartening (even as I think it leverages slightly decreasing transphobia with stronger homophobia)... but unfortunately the Shi'a only represent about 15% of Muslims worldwide.
[Edited 6/24/09 22:41pm] So back to that idea that sin isn't just sin. Your sins are worse than mine. Hair color or gender isn't it still a change? Yeah you can go back to your original hair color but what is so sacrosant about remaining the gender you were born? Nothing. | |
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SUPRMAN said: Lammastide said: While I might agree with him, I'd be interested in hearing his talking points, because just about every Sunni cleric I've encountered takes a more traditional hardline approach against this level of alteration. It's not quite as casual as changing a hair color. Since we're talking Iran, though, I'm guessing that the movie -- and the cleric you speak of -- is representative of Shi'a teachings, which have taken a surprisingly more progressive approach to gender identity in the past few decades. It's somewhat heartening (even as I think it leverages slightly decreasing transphobia with stronger homophobia)... but unfortunately the Shi'a only represent about 15% of Muslims worldwide.
[Edited 6/24/09 22:41pm] So back to that idea that sin isn't just sin. Your sins are worse than mine. Hair color or gender isn't it still a change? Yeah you can go back to your original hair color but what is so sacrosant about remaining the gender you were born? Nothing. Well, I may disagree with them about modern implications, but I can understand why some might hold this as a particularly serious matter... at least more serious than hair color change.
From their most foundational scriptures, many Jews, Christians and Muslims have believed that God created/creates humans decidedly male or female -- not as an incidental, but as a function of being created in God's image. And they believe that God's blessing of this creation is a statement of its overall sanctity. (Gen. 1:27-28) [Edited 6/25/09 12:16pm] ________________
Sundiata J., Prince fan extraordinaire. R.I.P., brother. | |
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keep in mind these people arn't in the same circumstances as transexuals elsewere.
