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Thread started 03/09/09 10:26am

thepope2the9s

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Obama urged to let banks fail

Obama urged to let banks fail
By Demetri Sevastopulo in Washington

Published: March 8 2009 20:35 | Last updated: March 8 2009 20:35

Two powerful Republicans on Sunday called on Barack Obama, US president, to let some big banks fail instead of propping them up with public money.

Richard Shelby, the top Republican on the Senate banking committee, warned that the US would end up following the same path as Japan, which suffered a lost decade of economic growth by tackling its banking crisis too slowly, unless some big institutions were allowed to fail.

The comments were made as experts debate whether the US should nationalise insolvent banks or allow the "zombie" institutions to fail.

The Obama administration is administering so-called stress tests on 19 leading financial institutions to see whether they can weather the economic climate. Citigroup shares dipped to below $1 last week as investors pummelled the financial sector.

Asked whether he was referring to Citigroup, Mr Shelby responded: "Well, whatever. Citi's always been a problem child."

John McCain, the Arizona senator who lost the presidential race to Mr Obama, said the administration had not make the "hard decision . . . to let these banks fail".

Mr Obama announced his nominations on Sunday for three top Treasury jobs in an effort to fill key positions that have remained vacant while his administration battles the financial and economic crisis.

The White House tapped Alan Krueger, a Princeton University professor and former labour department chief economist, as assistant secretary for economic policy - a crucial position under Timothy Geithner, the Treasury secretary.

Kim Wallace, a former congressional aide and Lehman Brothers employee, was picked as assistant secretary for legislative affairs, another crucial job as his administration works with Congress to develop plans to counter the financial and economic crisis, while David Cohen, a Clinton-era Treasury official, was tapped for the top job tackling terrorist financing.

Mr Obama has faced a string of setbacks in installing key officials across the government, including at Treasury, which critics say has hampered the department's ability to tackle the economic crisis.


Last week Annette Nazereth, who had been tipped for deputy secretary of Treasury, withdrew her name from consideration, as did Caroline Atkinson, a senior official at the International Monetary Fund who was expected to be named to head the department's international division.

While some appointees such as Tom Daschle, the former Senate majority leader who was tapped for health secretary, have withdrawn because of tax problems, others have not been named because the administration is being more vigilant in vetting candidates for top positions.

Mr Krueger, Ms Wallace and Mr Cohen have been serving as counsellors to Mr Geithner at Treasury.

But they are constrained in the range of activities that they can conduct until they are formally approved as assistant secretaries – the third-rung in the administration – by the Senate

"It is the system of nationalist ndividualism that has to go...Countless people...will hate the new world order....and will die protesting against it." HG Wells
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Reply #1 posted 03/09/09 11:37am

Graycap23

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I've been saying this all along.

The TRUTH.......only exist in 1 form.
The TRUTH.
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Reply #2 posted 03/09/09 1:34pm

sassybritches

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this is eaxctly the game plan that should have been followed since the beginning.

An individualist is a man who lives for his own sake and by his own mind; he neither sacrifices himself to others nor sacrifices others to himself...
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Reply #3 posted 03/09/09 1:35pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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sassybritches said:

this is eaxctly the game plan that should have been followed since the beginning.

Agree.

2009: Mermaids and Dolphins...
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Reply #4 posted 03/09/09 1:37pm

Vendetta1

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i'm all for letting the banks fail but what are people going to do when FDIC runs out of money?

God DAMN there are a lot of dumb motherfuckers walking around! - George Carlin
Stalkerwomen of the world unite in delusion!!!!!falloff
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Reply #5 posted 03/09/09 1:41pm

thepope2the9s

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Vendetta1 said:

i'm all for letting the banks fail but what are people going to do when FDIC runs out of money?

RIOT

"It is the system of nationalist ndividualism that has to go...Countless people...will hate the new world order....and will die protesting against it." HG Wells
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Reply #6 posted 03/09/09 1:47pm

RodeoSchro

Why would anyone listen to Bush Republicans on economic or financial matters? It's a proven fact that Bush Republicans got us INTO this mess!

"Guitar" on Leno is the greatest performance in the history of rock ' roll

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Reply #7 posted 03/09/09 2:10pm

Electrostar

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If the major banks are allowed to fail it would be like the heart of capitalism not working properly. This gets too close to anarchy for my liking.

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Reply #8 posted 03/09/09 2:16pm

IrresistibleB1
tch

what, so that we end up with one bank? like a Walmart of banks?

as much as i would like to stick it to greedy bankers (full disclosure, my husband works for one of the largest), the results frighten me even more.

i do have to wonder if Republicans would hold that same opinion if they were in power. something tells me that they wouldn't.

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Reply #9 posted 03/09/09 2:21pm

RodeoSchro

IrresistibleB1tch said:

what, so that we end up with one bank? like a Walmart of banks?

as much as i would like to stick it to greedy bankers (full disclosure, my husband works for one of the largest), the results frighten me even more.

i do have to wonder if Bush Republicans would hold that same opinion if they were in power. something tells me that they wouldn't.


Hey, you missed a spot! I fixed it, though!

"Guitar" on Leno is the greatest performance in the history of rock ' roll

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #10 posted 03/09/09 2:26pm

IrresistibleB1
tch

RodeoSchro said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:

what, so that we end up with one bank? like a Walmart of banks?

as much as i would like to stick it to greedy bankers (full disclosure, my husband works for one of the largest), the results frighten me even more.

i do have to wonder if Bush Republicans would hold that same opinion if they were in power. something tells me that they wouldn't.


Hey, you missed a spot! I fixed it, though!


you'll forgive me if i can't tell the difference! lol

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Reply #11 posted 03/09/09 4:12pm

babynoz

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Graycap23 said:

I've been saying this all along.


Tha f*ck were all these bastids last November when the entire nation begged them not to do these bailouts??? Especially Pops, "the fundamentals of the economy are strong" McCain???

Nobody ever asks that question.

"After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill...the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill...you stay in wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."
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Reply #12 posted 03/09/09 7:37pm

Vendetta1

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babynoz said:

Graycap23 said:

I've been saying this all along.


Tha f*ck were all these bastids last November when the entire nation begged them not to do these bailouts??? Especially Pops, "the fundamentals of the economy are strong" McCain???

Nobody ever asks that question.
clapping

God DAMN there are a lot of dumb motherfuckers walking around! - George Carlin
Stalkerwomen of the world unite in delusion!!!!!falloff
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Reply #13 posted 03/09/09 8:06pm

SUPRMAN

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sassybritches said:

this is eaxctly the game plan that should have been followed since the beginning.


So you would prefer a full on depression?
[Edited 3/9/09 20:07pm]

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Reply #14 posted 03/09/09 8:09pm

SUPRMAN

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Don't let major banks fail, take their toxic assets off their hands.

Letting Citi or AIG (an insurer) fail would depress an already depressed economy.
It too late to teach 'moral' lessons, as Bush thought he was doing.

Shelby and McCain may be frustrated but who would take economic advice from John McCain? That's why he's not in the Oval Office so I don't see the imperative to give him credence now.
[Edited 3/9/09 20:12pm]

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Reply #15 posted 03/09/09 8:13pm

SUPRMAN

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Mr Obama has faced a string of setbacks in installing key officials across the government, including at Treasury, which critics say has hampered the department's ability to tackle the economic crisis.


Why was this bolded? What were his critics going to say?

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Reply #16 posted 03/09/09 8:27pm

sassybritches

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SUPRMAN said:

sassybritches said:

this is eaxctly the game plan that should have been followed since the beginning.


So you would prefer a full on depression?
[Edited 3/9/09 20:07pm]

we're going to have one regardless. i'd rather get it over with and start rebuilding our economy as opposed to digging the whole deeper, delaying the inevitable, and taking even longer to get out of it.

it's time we stopped rewarding irrationality and a lack of productivity, and time to get back to rewarding productivity and hard work.
[Edited 3/9/09 20:28pm]

An individualist is a man who lives for his own sake and by his own mind; he neither sacrifices himself to others nor sacrifices others to himself...
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Reply #17 posted 03/09/09 8:30pm

sassybritches

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IrresistibleB1tch said:

what, so that we end up with one bank? like a Walmart of banks?

as much as i would like to stick it to greedy bankers (full disclosure, my husband works for one of the largest), the results frighten me even more.

i do have to wonder if Republicans would hold that same opinion if they were in power. something tells me that they wouldn't.

no. you end up with smaller banks that grow from the failure of larger banks. its like everything else in capitalism...when one business fails, the pieces are picked up by others and room for new businesses is made.

these banks are making fake money based on fake production. let the small companies, who actually deal with real product, take over where these gigantic banks failed.

An individualist is a man who lives for his own sake and by his own mind; he neither sacrifices himself to others nor sacrifices others to himself...
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Reply #18 posted 03/10/09 12:26am

guitarslinger4
4

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sassybritches said:

SUPRMAN said:



So you would prefer a full on depression?
[Edited 3/9/09 20:07pm]

we're going to have one regardless. i'd rather get it over with and start rebuilding our economy as opposed to digging the whole deeper, delaying the inevitable, and taking even longer to get out of it.

it's time we stopped rewarding irrationality and a lack of productivity, and time to get back to rewarding productivity and hard work.
[Edited 3/9/09 20:28pm]


clapping I agree 100%

These large banks are too out of touch to continue. Propping them up goes against the essence of capitalism which is, when a business fails to be able to continue to compete, it either changes or it goes out of business. We dont have the money to keep rewarding failure the way we have. AIG is now begging for MORE money after they just got a hefty sum before.

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Reply #19 posted 03/10/09 6:03am

IrresistibleB1
tch

sassybritches said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:

what, so that we end up with one bank? like a Walmart of banks?

as much as i would like to stick it to greedy bankers (full disclosure, my husband works for one of the largest), the results frighten me even more.

i do have to wonder if Republicans would hold that same opinion if they were in power. something tells me that they wouldn't.

no. you end up with smaller banks that grow from the failure of larger banks. its like everything else in capitalism...when one business fails, the pieces are picked up by others and room for new businesses is made.

these banks are making fake money based on fake production. let the small companies, who actually deal with real product, take over where these gigantic banks failed.


sorry, i'll have to call bullshit on that one. capitalism's goal is not continued competition between small entities. are you seeing this anywhere in business or industry? if so, let me know!

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Reply #20 posted 03/10/09 6:35am

thepope2the9s

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SUPRMAN said:

sassybritches said:

this is eaxctly the game plan that should have been followed since the beginning.


So you would prefer a full on depression?
[Edited 3/9/09 20:07pm]

newsflash...were already in a depression...and heading deeper..better to let the sytem purge itself than add more debt

"It is the system of nationalist ndividualism that has to go...Countless people...will hate the new world order....and will die protesting against it." HG Wells
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Reply #21 posted 03/10/09 7:28am

RodeoSchro

Keep in mind that the definition of a depression is a prolonged recession.

Being in a depression doesn't mean things have to get worse than they are today. It just means they don't get any better for several quarters.

So don't be afraid of the word "depression". By definition, it does not necessarily mean things are going to get worse.

"Guitar" on Leno is the greatest performance in the history of rock ' roll

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #22 posted 03/10/09 8:29am

sassybritches

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RodeoSchro said:

Keep in mind that the definition of a depression is a prolonged recession.

Being in a depression doesn't mean things have to get worse than they are today. It just means they don't get any better for several quarters.

So don't be afraid of the word "depression". By definition, it does not necessarily mean things are going to get worse.

but everyone knows they will. even the so-called experts...the ones who got us into this mess...are pointing starting to suggest that this will be the worst time since the Great Depression.

An individualist is a man who lives for his own sake and by his own mind; he neither sacrifices himself to others nor sacrifices others to himself...
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Reply #23 posted 03/10/09 8:31am

sassybritches

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IrresistibleB1tch said:

sassybritches said:


no. you end up with smaller banks that grow from the failure of larger banks. its like everything else in capitalism...when one business fails, the pieces are picked up by others and room for new businesses is made.

these banks are making fake money based on fake production. let the small companies, who actually deal with real product, take over where these gigantic banks failed.


sorry, i'll have to call bullshit on that one. capitalism's goal is not continued competition between small entities. are you seeing this anywhere in business or industry? if so, let me know!

Capitalism's goal is reward for production. As such, when one business can no longer produce and fails althogether, other productive businesses will step into its place, taking that client base. you can call bullshit all you want, doesnt change the fact that this is how it works.

An individualist is a man who lives for his own sake and by his own mind; he neither sacrifices himself to others nor sacrifices others to himself...
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Reply #24 posted 03/10/09 12:36pm

IrresistibleB1
tch

sassybritches said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:



sorry, i'll have to call bullshit on that one. capitalism's goal is not continued competition between small entities. are you seeing this anywhere in business or industry? if so, let me know!

Capitalism's goal is reward for production. As such, when one business can no longer produce and fails althogether, other productive businesses will step into its place, taking that client base. you can call bullshit all you want, doesnt change the fact that this is how it works.


i noticed that you don't have a concrete example for me.

other, larger businesses buy up the companies' assets in order to eliminate them as competition. and this happens even before a business fails. the end goal is monopoly. you can dismiss my bullshit calling all you want, that is how it really works.

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Reply #25 posted 03/10/09 1:19pm

SUPRMAN

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IrresistibleB1tch said:

sassybritches said:


Capitalism's goal is reward for production. As such, when one business can no longer produce and fails althogether, other productive businesses will step into its place, taking that client base. you can call bullshit all you want, doesnt change the fact that this is how it works.


i noticed that you don't have a concrete example for me.

other, larger businesses buy up the companies' assets in order to eliminate them as competition. and this happens even before a business fails. the end goal is monopoly. you can dismiss my bullshit calling all you want, that is how it really works.


But monopolies are banned in the U.S. for the most part, so there is only so much market share one can hope to achieve unless as in software (microsoft) you create the market you are dominating.

Buying a competitor doesn't always makes sense. Economies of scale sometimes means it's better to have competitors. No one car company can supply such a differentiated market cost effectively, therefore competitors.

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Reply #26 posted 03/10/09 1:21pm

SUPRMAN

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sassybritches said:

SUPRMAN said:



So you would prefer a full on depression?
[Edited 3/9/09 20:07pm]

we're going to have one regardless. i'd rather get it over with and start rebuilding our economy as opposed to digging the whole deeper, delaying the inevitable, and taking even longer to get out of it.

it's time we stopped rewarding irrationality and a lack of productivity, and time to get back to rewarding productivity and hard work.
[Edited 3/9/09 20:28pm]


A depression is not inevitable. So let's not go there unnecessarily.
Letting banks fail is not going to hasten rebuilding our economy but delay it.

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Reply #27 posted 03/10/09 2:47pm

tmo1965

Vendetta1 said:

i'm all for letting the banks fail but what are people going to do when FDIC runs out of money?


The government will just print some more. smile

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Reply #28 posted 03/10/09 3:03pm

GetAwayFromMe

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YAY! let them fail!!!! Anarchy! Anarchy! smile

If you air your dirty linen in public, expect people to comment on the skid marks!
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Reply #29 posted 03/10/09 4:52pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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SUPRMAN said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:



i noticed that you don't have a concrete example for me.

other, larger businesses buy up the companies' assets in order to eliminate them as competition. and this happens even before a business fails. the end goal is monopoly. you can dismiss my bullshit calling all you want, that is how it really works.


But monopolies are banned in the U.S. for the most part,


I know you aren't saying that with a straight face lol

2009: Mermaids and Dolphins...
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