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WTF? Gaza keeps throwing missiles at Israel, Israeli military attacks Gaza. Death toll at over 900. (Updated) http://www.cnn.com/2009/W...index.html
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PurpleJedi said: 
I disagree. Since the beginning of the year, Israel has been hit with an estimated 3,000 rockets (per Yahoo article I read). How much are they supposed to take? It's like a mouse taunting a cat, niping at his tail time after time after time, until finally the cat turns around and pounces on the mouse....then everyone starts crying "foul" at the cat????? WTF? I'm not on anyone's side on this whole Israel/Palestine mess...but Hamas was just asking for it. On the flip side...you must realize that Hamas WANTED to be attacked...why else harass Israel with their stupid rockets OTHER THAN to prompt an attack and then get the rest of the Muslim world all riled up? Agree 100% with the bolded. Hamas has no problem using Palestinian citizens as targets or bombs to suit it's political ends. It wants an Israeli over reaction as Israel did two years ago in Lebanon. Hamas is blocking and will continue to block any peace effort. Creating a West Bank Palestine but not in Gaza is divisive and untenable and unless Hamas is ready to recognize that Israel exists and will continue to do so how do you create peace? Palestinians want peace but Hamas does not. |
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this is not true, there are moderates within Hamas who want to be part of the dialogue. the US and Israel have refused to engage Hamas in any discussions regardless of the fact that they are the ELECTED government of the Palestinian people. If Hamas was engaged rather than ignored, these moderates would be able to give Hamas a voice that is frequently ignored in the West and by Israel. In fact, many times Hamas has agreed to ceasefires...and yes, some extremists go and break that cease fire but then ALL of Hamas is blamed for the acts of a few extremists. WHY? because nobody chooses to listen to Hamas or include them in the dialogue.
An individualist is a man who lives for his own sake and by his own mind; he neither sacrifices himself to others nor sacrifices others to himself... | |
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sassybritches said: this is not true, there are moderates within Hamas who want to be part of the dialogue. the US and Israel have refused to engage Hamas in any discussions regardless of the fact that they are the ELECTED government of the Palestinian people. If Hamas was engaged rather than ignored, these moderates would be able to give Hamas a voice that is frequently ignored in the West and by Israel. In fact, many times Hamas has agreed to ceasefires...and yes, some extremists go and break that cease fire but then ALL of Hamas is blamed for the acts of a few extremists. WHY? because nobody chooses to listen to Hamas or include them in the dialogue.
Hamas does not block peace. What blocks peace is the refusal to engage Hamas in any discussion of the peaceful, two state solution. You can call them a rogue gov't or a terrorist organization or whatever you choose but the fact that they DO exist and DO contribute to the state of the region is undeniable. By ignoring them and refusing to listen to anyone within Hamas, the US and Israel do far more harm than good. Both gov'ts know there are moderates in Hamas who would work towards peace. It is also likely that these moderates would, if given the chance to take part in discussing the question of palestine/israel, distance themselves from extremists in Hamas who refuse to cooperate with the direction a moderate leadership would bring. The real harm towards peace in the region is the arrogant exclusion of Hamas by the Israelis and the US gov't. (and the US gov't shouldn't even be involved in the first place, but that's another thread.) Isn't the whole reason for Hamas NOT being acknowledged is THEIR refusal to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a State????? If Prince.Org shuts down, I'm writing SLAVE on my left buttcheek! | |
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sassybritches said: this is not true, there are moderates within Hamas who want to be part of the dialogue. the US and Israel have refused to engage Hamas in any discussions regardless of the fact that they are the ELECTED government of the Palestinian people. If Hamas was engaged rather than ignored, these moderates would be able to give Hamas a voice that is frequently ignored in the West and by Israel. In fact, many times Hamas has agreed to ceasefires...and yes, some extremists go and break that cease fire but then ALL of Hamas is blamed for the acts of a few extremists. WHY? because nobody chooses to listen to Hamas or include them in the dialogue.
Hamas does not block peace. What blocks peace is the refusal to engage Hamas in any discussion of the peaceful, two state solution. You can call them a rogue gov't or a terrorist organization or whatever you choose but the fact that they DO exist and DO contribute to the state of the region is undeniable. By ignoring them and refusing to listen to anyone within Hamas, the US and Israel do far more harm than good. Both gov'ts know there are moderates in Hamas who would work towards peace. It is also likely that these moderates would, if given the chance to take part in discussing the question of palestine/israel, distance themselves from extremists in Hamas who refuse to cooperate with the direction a moderate leadership would bring. The real harm towards peace in the region is the arrogant exclusion of Hamas by the Israelis and the US gov't. (and the US gov't shouldn't even be involved in the first place, but that's another thread.) Hamas, unfortunately is a democratically elected government. If Hamas doesn't have control over who is firing the rockets, that government of Hamas does not condemn the attacks or work to bring those responsible to any accountability or deter the attacks which makes them complicit. What is there to talk about when Hamas is adamant that it denies Israel's right to exist? How do you talk to someone who says you have to be dead before I discuss anything? Moderates in Hamas? in Gaza? But they won't talk to the U.S. or Israel? They can't get Egypt to facilitate such talks? Obviously it's not the moderates in Hamas that are in charge. Talking to Israel will endear them to who, other than the Israelis? |
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SUPRMAN said: sassybritches said: this is not true, there are moderates within Hamas who want to be part of the dialogue. the US and Israel have refused to engage Hamas in any discussions regardless of the fact that they are the ELECTED government of the Palestinian people. If Hamas was engaged rather than ignored, these moderates would be able to give Hamas a voice that is frequently ignored in the West and by Israel. In fact, many times Hamas has agreed to ceasefires...and yes, some extremists go and break that cease fire but then ALL of Hamas is blamed for the acts of a few extremists. WHY? because nobody chooses to listen to Hamas or include them in the dialogue.
Hamas does not block peace. What blocks peace is the refusal to engage Hamas in any discussion of the peaceful, two state solution. You can call them a rogue gov't or a terrorist organization or whatever you choose but the fact that they DO exist and DO contribute to the state of the region is undeniable. By ignoring them and refusing to listen to anyone within Hamas, the US and Israel do far more harm than good. Both gov'ts know there are moderates in Hamas who would work towards peace. It is also likely that these moderates would, if given the chance to take part in discussing the question of palestine/israel, distance themselves from extremists in Hamas who refuse to cooperate with the direction a moderate leadership would bring. The real harm towards peace in the region is the arrogant exclusion of Hamas by the Israelis and the US gov't. (and the US gov't shouldn't even be involved in the first place, but that's another thread.) Hamas, unfortunately is a democratically elected government. If Hamas doesn't have control over who is firing the rockets, that government of Hamas does not condemn the attacks or work to bring those responsible to any accountability or deter the attacks which makes them complicit. What is there to talk about when Hamas is adamant that it denies Israel's right to exist? How do you talk to someone who says you have to be dead before I discuss anything? Moderates in Hamas? in Gaza? But they won't talk to the U.S. or Israel? They can't get Egypt to facilitate such talks? Obviously it's not the moderates in Hamas that are in charge. Talking to Israel will endear them to who, other than the Israelis? I may be misunderstanding your statement. it sounds like you're saying Hamas is refusing to speak? that is not the case, though. Hamas wants to be engaged and be included in the discussion. The US and Israel refuse to engage them because they consider Hamas to be a terrorist organization and will not "negotiate" with "terrorists". it's not about egypt facilitating talks...the US and Israel WILL NOT have the talks with Hamas. this is the problem. the extremists in Hamas see this as an excuse to use violence, the moderates are left without support. that may be oversimplifying a very complex situation but in a nutshell, its very accurate. An individualist is a man who lives for his own sake and by his own mind; he neither sacrifices himself to others nor sacrifices others to himself... | |
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PurpleJedi said: sassybritches said: this is not true, there are moderates within Hamas who want to be part of the dialogue. the US and Israel have refused to engage Hamas in any discussions regardless of the fact that they are the ELECTED government of the Palestinian people. If Hamas was engaged rather than ignored, these moderates would be able to give Hamas a voice that is frequently ignored in the West and by Israel. In fact, many times Hamas has agreed to ceasefires...and yes, some extremists go and break that cease fire but then ALL of Hamas is blamed for the acts of a few extremists. WHY? because nobody chooses to listen to Hamas or include them in the dialogue.
Hamas does not block peace. What blocks peace is the refusal to engage Hamas in any discussion of the peaceful, two state solution. You can call them a rogue gov't or a terrorist organization or whatever you choose but the fact that they DO exist and DO contribute to the state of the region is undeniable. By ignoring them and refusing to listen to anyone within Hamas, the US and Israel do far more harm than good. Both gov'ts know there are moderates in Hamas who would work towards peace. It is also likely that these moderates would, if given the chance to take part in discussing the question of palestine/israel, distance themselves from extremists in Hamas who refuse to cooperate with the direction a moderate leadership would bring. The real harm towards peace in the region is the arrogant exclusion of Hamas by the Israelis and the US gov't. (and the US gov't shouldn't even be involved in the first place, but that's another thread.) Isn't the whole reason for Hamas NOT being acknowledged is THEIR refusal to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a State????? No, for two reasons. 1) we've engaged Iran in various talks and Ahmadinejad has said, on multiple occassions, he doesn't think Israel should exist. 2) again, many within Palestine and Hamas are supportive of a peaceful, two state solution. we just don't hear that story over here. when you start researching and looking into various int'l news sources as well as speaking with Palestinians directly, you begin to hear a voice that is, for the most part, silenced in the States. An individualist is a man who lives for his own sake and by his own mind; he neither sacrifices himself to others nor sacrifices others to himself... | |
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sassybritches said: PurpleJedi said: Isn't the whole reason for Hamas NOT being acknowledged is THEIR refusal to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a State????? No, for two reasons. 1) we've engaged Iran in various talks and Ahmadinejad has said, on multiple occassions, he doesn't think Israel should exist. 2) again, many within Palestine and Hamas are supportive of a peaceful, two state solution. we just don't hear that story over here. when you start researching and looking into various int'l news sources as well as speaking with Palestinians directly, you begin to hear a voice that is, for the most part, silenced in the States. I don't think moderate Palestinian voices are being silenced but it's hard to imagine electing Hamas as working toward a two state solution. You know you won't get a state electing Hamas to represent you. There are moderate Republicans also but it's the far right that dominates the party . . ., |
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SUPRMAN said: sassybritches said: No, for two reasons. 1) we've engaged Iran in various talks and Ahmadinejad has said, on multiple occassions, he doesn't think Israel should exist. 2) again, many within Palestine and Hamas are supportive of a peaceful, two state solution. we just don't hear that story over here. when you start researching and looking into various int'l news sources as well as speaking with Palestinians directly, you begin to hear a voice that is, for the most part, silenced in the States. I don't think moderate Palestinian voices are being silenced but it's hard to imagine electing Hamas as working toward a two state solution. You know you won't get a state electing Hamas to represent you. There are moderate Republicans also but it's the far right that dominates the party . . ., what do you base your thinking on? I mean, what resources have you used to come to your conclusions? Colin Powell, Jimmy Carter, and a large number of others who are directly (or have been directly) involved with the palestinian/israeli conflict are adamant that Hamas be engaged in the discussion. what do you know or what have you heard/learned that they would be be unaware of? An individualist is a man who lives for his own sake and by his own mind; he neither sacrifices himself to others nor sacrifices others to himself... | |
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sassybritches said: SUPRMAN said: I don't think moderate Palestinian voices are being silenced but it's hard to imagine electing Hamas as working toward a two state solution. You know you won't get a state electing Hamas to represent you. There are moderate Republicans also but it's the far right that dominates the party . . ., what do you base your thinking on? I mean, what resources have you used to come to your conclusions? Colin Powell, Jimmy Carter, and a large number of others who are directly (or have been directly) involved with the palestinian/israeli conflict are adamant that Hamas be engaged in the discussion. what do you know or what have you heard/learned that they would be be unaware of? Hamas was elected in Gaza, marginalized the P.A., then ousted the P.A. by force from Gaza. When has Hamas ever said they would consider recognizing Israel's right to exist? So how is Israel supposed to talk to a group that wants Israel to cease to exist as a country? Are they to negotiate Israel out of existence? I think Carter, Powell and others want Palestinians at the table but what would you negotiate with Hamas about? And if, as you suggest they can't actually prevent the rocket launches from Gaza, what use is talking to an inept and incapable of governing government? |
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I think every one of these people who start this kind of nonsense, whether it is Israel or Hamas or Iran or Hezbollah or whatever other batshit religious group, all need to grow a brain and realize that KILLING IN THE NAME OF RELIGION OR STATE IS AN ABSOLUTE EVIL. These people are killing children when they attack each other. STOP NOW, or you will not reach the "heaven" that you all proclaim you believe in. BELIEVE IN LOVE AND YOU WILL FULFILL GOD'S PLAN. | |
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JDODSONandFlashpointe said: I think every one of these people who start this kind of nonsense, whether it is Israel or Hamas or Iran or Hezbollah or whatever other batshit religious group, all need to grow a brain and realize that KILLING IN THE NAME OF RELIGION OR STATE IS AN ABSOLUTE EVIL. These people are killing children when they attack each other. STOP NOW, or you will not reach the "heaven" that you all proclaim you believe in. BELIEVE IN LOVE AND YOU WILL FULFILL GOD'S PLAN.
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mdiver said: JDODSONandFlashpointe said: I think every one of these people who start this kind of nonsense, whether it is Israel or Hamas or Iran or Hezbollah or whatever other batshit religious group, all need to grow a brain and realize that KILLING IN THE NAME OF RELIGION OR STATE IS AN ABSOLUTE EVIL. These people are killing children when they attack each other. STOP NOW, or you will not reach the "heaven" that you all proclaim you believe in. BELIEVE IN LOVE AND YOU WILL FULFILL GOD'S PLAN.
Thank you.  I am very upset with this attack. It's the time of the year for families and peace. At least cease attacks during holy times- you would think they would have respect for that since they claim to be religious. Nothing is sacred to those evil bastards now. We need a leader to stand up and say WAR IS OVER- and we need them to do it NOW. Peace MUST prevail, for the sake of the future existence of our human race. | |
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sassybritches said: PurpleJedi said: Isn't the whole reason for Hamas NOT being acknowledged is THEIR refusal to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a State????? No, for two reasons. 1) we've engaged Iran in various talks and Ahmadinejad has said, on multiple occassions, he doesn't think Israel should exist. 2) again, many within Palestine and Hamas are supportive of a peaceful, two state solution. we just don't hear that story over here. when you start researching and looking into various int'l news sources as well as speaking with Palestinians directly, you begin to hear a voice that is, for the most part, silenced in the States. I think that your rebuttal is not sound. Ahmadinejad is still considered a rogue and Iran is not on good terms with us. Same as Hamas. Regardless of what moderate Palestinians desire, the elected leaders of Gaza (Hamas) do not acknowledge Israel. Same as the USA...regardless of what moderate Americans feel, the elected leadership of the past 8 years led us in one direction, so the nation as a whole is held accountable to the end results. If Prince.Org shuts down, I'm writing SLAVE on my left buttcheek! | |
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225 deaths and over 700 wounded cases in Gaza so far.
"one of us has got to pick the phone up!" | |
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i just cannot believe this is coming from a nation that has gone through holocaust.
"one of us has got to pick the phone up!" | |
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The rockets rarely kill anybody and they usually are aimed at military targets, while Israel aims at civilians. They also use violence like this to stall the peace talks, since there's an election soon and the government wants to act tough, so that the Likud right doesn't win, which would destroy any peace treaty, since the Likudites are arab hating racists.  Wave your wildsigns high!! | |
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holidays and winters are their speciality. "one of us has got to pick the phone up!" | |
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This make me want to be friends with Israel. | |
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PurpleJedi said: Since the beginning of the year, Israel has been hit with an estimated 3,000 rockets (per Yahoo article I read).
How much are they supposed to take? Yeah, and they did nothing bad, like turning off electricity/water/gas/... to the few (rotten) places where they allow Palestinians to live. Israel gets BILLIONS each year in US aid, mostly in the form of the latest weaponry. What a threat those Palestinian home-made rockets are, huh? © Bart Van Hemelen
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BartVanHemelen said: PurpleJedi said: Since the beginning of the year, Israel has been hit with an estimated 3,000 rockets (per Yahoo article I read).
How much are they supposed to take? Yeah, and they did nothing bad, like turning off electricity/water/gas/... to the few (rotten) places where they allow Palestinians to live. Israel gets BILLIONS each year in US aid, mostly in the form of the latest weaponry. What a threat those Palestinian home-made rockets are, huh? Uhmmm....I wasn't aware of utilities having been cut to the Fatah-ruled West Bank, which is a vastly larger area than Gaza. And BTW; Hamas wants to destroy Israel and replace it with an Islamic Palestinian state...yet they're bitching because Israel (the very people they want to destroy) won't supply them with utilies???? How the hell does that work? Now let me ask you SPECIFICALLY...how EXACTLY is Israel supposed to react to being bombarded constantly by Hamas? "Homemade" rockets or not...they're antagonizing them. If I walked up to your house and threw a molotov cocktail into your backyard, would you say; "Oh ignore that, it's just a homemade bomb."??? I'm going to say it again...in case you missed it the first time...I'm not choosing sides in this conflict. Seems to me that BOTH parties have enough blame to bear for the utter & complete mess that this situation has become. And neither side is really looking for a resolution. If Prince.Org shuts down, I'm writing SLAVE on my left buttcheek! | |
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This from the Associated Press:
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eugnj420 said: This from the Associated Press:
Late Saturday, thousands of Gazans received Arabic-language voice mails on their cellphones from the Israeli military, urging them to leave homes where militants might have stashed weapons. two julys ago the israelie government used the very same excuse after bombing the building in the which the food was stored. "one of us has got to pick the phone up!" | |
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They are trying to force Obama to declare his support of their attack to set the tone. He cant even get sworn in and theyre already trying him. Biden called it months ago. Putins doing more photoshoots than a rock star. He invaded Georgia and turned up in a karate outfit for funks sake. Wheres the next one coming from? "...and you believed that story? You believed that?" The Godfather Part II | |
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Hamas serves as a distraction from Iran and a warning from Iran . . . |
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Hamas tastes really good with pitta bread.....or is that Humous? | |
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Putin is engineering a comeback, that's why - all the photoshoots.
JonnyApplesauce said: They are trying to force Obama to declare his support of their attack to set the tone. He cant even get sworn in and theyre already trying him. Biden called it months ago. Putins doing more photoshoots than a rock star. He invaded Georgia and turned up in a karate outfit for funks sake. Wheres the next one coming from? | |
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282 death cases now. "one of us has got to pick the phone up!" | |
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PurpleJedi said: Uhmmm....I wasn't aware of utilities having been cut to the Fatah-ruled West Bank, which is a vastly larger area than Gaza.
Yeah, how dare I suggest that a decades long pattern of human rights abuses by Israel might have something to do with the second rate citizens of Israel standing up to the occupier. PurpleJedi said: And BTW; Hamas wants to destroy Israel and replace it with an Islamic Palestinian state...
And how would they do that, hm? With some of the fantasy WMDs on loan from Saddam? Why are so many of you lot incapable of looking at THE ACTUAL FACTS? Why do you keep making up ridiculous excuses for Israel's unlawful and inhuman actions against a defenseless people? Why can't you acknowledge the apartheid? "But... but... they're throwing rocks!" At TANKS, yes.Pathetic. PurpleJedi said: yet they're bitching because Israel (the very people they want to destroy) won't supply them with utilies????
Yes, how dare they, and after all the work Israel has put in removing them from their fertile lands, drying up the rivers they use for irrigation, putting up walls, setting up border posts that humiliate people... PurpleJedi said: Now let me ask you SPECIFICALLY...how EXACTLY is Israel supposed to react to being bombarded constantly by Hamas? "Homemade" rockets or not...they're antagonizing them. If I walked up to your house and threw a molotov cocktail into your backyard, would you say; "Oh ignore that, it's just a homemade bomb."???
Well, they could start by not treating Palestinians as second-rate citizens, by not occupying their lands, by not stealing from them, by acknowledging the results of their elections,... In case you forgot, Israel is the OCCUPIER. PurpleJedi said: I'm going to say it again...in case you missed it the first time...I'm not choosing sides in this conflict.
Yet every one of your posts in this thread here is "hurrah for Israel!" And yes, both parties are to blame. Yet one of them kills a MULTITUDE more than the other does. Lemme give you a hint: it's the one that's armed to the teeth, the one that has been ignoring UN resolutions for decades, the one that receives BILLIONS in US aid each year. Oh, and here's another question: which of the two parties has been repeatedly caught spying in the US? But we're to believe the Palestinians are the bad guys. © Bart Van Hemelen
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