The Catholic Vote and Abortion

The Catholic Church caution voters to give consideration to their eternal salvation regarding their vote on a non-negotiable issue.



http://hotair.com/archive...salvation/

http://hotair.com/archive...conundrum/

there was also this recent ad saying that a Catholic cannot vote for Obama in good conscience:

I am catholic and I I were from the USA I would vote for Obama as my conscience would tell me it's the right thing to do .

Martina, now orgs official resident fairy/pixie
Your name...it means Warrior. So, you are the "warrior fairy!"

Considering how they handled all those molestation charges, they should probably worry about their own salvation.

Jesus died for peoples' sins, not the Catholic Church.

There is only one unforgivable sin and abortion aint it.

Imago said:

PurpleKnight said:

PurpleKnight said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Imago said:

PurpleKnight said:

I agree. I think it's safe to say that the Catholic Church has lost whatever moral authority it could ever claim to have.

It's almost comedic

HiinEnkelte said:

HiinEnkelte said:

Hiin, you're right insofar as abortion is a bright-line issue on which Catholics are taught to stand against.

But voting for a candidate is not that simple. And, contrary to what many Catholics would have us believe, the Church's position is more nuanced.
In the U.S. Conference on Catholic Bishops' paper, Faithful Citizenship, here is the standard (which I've posted many times, and which, IIRC, you have not addressed despite my many invitations to do so):

namepeace said:

PurpleKnight said:

I can't be bothered watching all that.....did anyone quote any scriptures?

Imago said:

PurpleKnight said:

HiinEnkelte said:

namepeace said:

I just object in general to the idea that the actions of the Church's most prominent figures should in no way detract from the Church's moral authority on the basis of a divine claim.

PurpleKnight said:

I'm curious to know to what extent it's proper to characterize comments by two individual bishops as the statements of "the Catholic Church." I'd imagine there are more than a few catechists who'd arrive at similar conclusions with regard to formal cooperation with an excommunicable act; but I'd imagine there are many who'd hold equally informed readings of catechesis, yet glean quite different implications (e.g. the U.S. Conference on Catholic Bishops) ...especially where something as tense as eternal salvation is regarded.

Finn and Gracida's positions aren't to be minimized or imagined as "fringe," but certainly their comments, in themselves, rank quite low in the hierarchy of magisterial authority.
[Edited 11/3/08 14:24pm]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

You owe me $5. I caught the big fish....again

Catholics for Obama: No qualms about abortion issue
Rex W. Huppke | Tribune staff reporter
October 21, 2008

In the voting booth, there is a voter, a conscience and, where applicable, a god.

Even in an election where religious issues have taken a back seat to the economy, terrorism and health care, the subject of abortion is bound to give pause to Catholic voters considering Sen. Barack Obama.

So a national group called Catholic Democrats launched a pro-Obama Web site today that lays out reasons Catholics can pull the lever for a candidate who believes in a woman's right to choose.

"I feel that every Catholic can vote for Obama in good conscience," said Patrick Whelan, president of Catholic Democrats. "I think Barack Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate who has come out and said he plans constructive measures to reduce the number of abortions in the United States."

Barack Obama: The making of a candidate Photos CatholicsforObama.org argues that voting on the basis of only one issue runs afoul of the faith. Obama's broader social policies would do more to reduce the number of abortions than anything proposed by Sen. John McCain, who is an open opponent of the landmark Roe v. Wade decision. the group says. The crux of the argument is that criminalizing the procedure is less effective in reducing abortions than addressing the social circumstances that lead women to seek them.

Strict anti-abortionists, as one would expect, vehemently disagree. Joe Scheidler, president of the Chicago-based Pro-Life Action League, says it's an oxymoron for a practicing Catholic to vote for Obama, regardless of how he might address issues – like health care for pregnant women and child care – that could curb abortions.

"There are a lot of ways you can solve poverty and all these other issues," Scheidler said. "But abortion is the taking of a human life, and the church is very strict on that. Any involvement in abortion is not just a sin, it's an ex-communicable sin. This is serious business."

Which is why it can tear so deeply at many Catholics. Catholics have, historically, been nimble at finding loopholes in church doctrine, ways to deftly excuse themselves from the guilt of lesser sins – skipping church, swearing, eating meat on Fridays.

Abortion is a much steeper hill to climb. Catholic Democrats aren't the only group this year trying to give fellow Catholics a pro-Obama push up the slope.

Douglas Kmiec, a Catholic constitutional scholar, wrote a book on the subject, arguing that Obama's ideas are more in tune with the church's stance on social justice. Kmiec is a Republican who served in the Justice Department under Ronald Reagan.

Even an offshoot of the staunchly Catholic men's organization the Knights of Columbus launched a "Knights for Obama" campaign and Web site.

Of course those who see no wiggle room in their opposition to abortion continue to make their case.

Representatives from the Chicago archdiocese and several local anti-abortion groups are in the midst of a 40-day, around-the-clock prayer vigil outside a North Side clinic that performs abortions. Earlier this month in Denver, Roman Catholic Archbishop Charles Chaput called Obama the "most committed" abortion-rights candidate since the passage of Roe v. Wade.

Whelan, of Catholic Democrats, said his hope is that Catholics will come to his group's Web site and, at least for a moment, block out the noise of the fiery abortion debate.

He believes some will come to see Obama as he does: a person who may not mesh with the faith in all regards, but whose "life parallels the central messages of Catholic social teaching."

"I think that from a Christian standpoint, and Catholics in particular, the ethos is about inviting people to the moral life and working on constructive measures to reduce abortions," Whelan said. "And I honestly believe that Obama has helped this country turn a corner on this issue."

http://www.chicagotribune.com
[Edited 11/3/08 14:29pm]

lascantas said:

JellyBean said:

namepeace said:

PurpleKnight said: