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Thread started 09/15/08 4:45am

yxl1

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Charles Darwin to receive apology from the Church of England for rejecting evolution

http://www.telegraph.co.u...ution.html

The Church of England is to apologise to Charles Darwin for its initial rejection of his theories, nearly 150 years after he published his most famous work.
The Church of England will concede in a statement that it was over-defensive and over-emotional in dismissing Darwin's ideas. It will call "anti-evolutionary fervour" an "indictment" on the Church".

The bold move is certain to dismay sections of the Church that believe in creationism and regard Darwin's views as directly opposed to traditional Christian teaching.

The apology, which has been written by the Rev Dr Malcolm Brown, the Church's director of mission and public affairs, says that Christians, in their response to Darwin's theory of natural selection, repeated the mistakes they made in doubting Galileo's astronomy in the 17th century.

"The statement will read: Charles Darwin: 200 years from your birth, the Church of England owes you an apology for misunderstanding you and, by getting our first reaction wrong, encouraging others to misunderstand you still. We try to practise the old virtues of 'faith seeking understanding' and hope that makes some amends."

Opposition to evolutionary theories is still "a litmus test of faithfulness" for some Christian movements, the Church will admit. It will say that such attitudes owe much to a fear of perceived threats to Christianity.

The comments are included on a Church of England website promoting the views of Charles Darwin to be launched on Monday.

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Reply #1 posted 09/15/08 4:58am

syble

good. shame he doesnt know. seems pointless really.

now maybe its time the catholic church apologised for the inquisition and the massacre of scientists and theologists and free thinkers.

walk with crooked shoes www.myspace/syblepurplelishous
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Reply #2 posted 09/15/08 5:02am

JellyBean

Well. Better late than never, I guess.

“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist.” Brazilian bishop Dom Hélder Câmara
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Reply #3 posted 09/15/08 6:15am

yxl1

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I've often wondered how some christians rationalize evolution with their faith. Ok, some believe god initated and guided evolution and the story of Adam and Eve is just that - a story. Now if that's the case, what was Jesus doing on earth? I thought he came to absolve the sin caused by Adam. If there was no Adam and Eve, then surely there was no reason for Jesus to decend from heaven and save us. Also, didnt jesus mention or refer to Adam and Eve, or at the very least the "original sin"
[Edited 9/15/08 6:15am]

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Reply #4 posted 09/15/08 6:25am

Mach

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moderator

How interesting ...

The Whorg - org whores unite !

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Reply #5 posted 09/15/08 6:51am

syble

hmmmmm


i wonder how many other 'stories' are in the bible? which bits do you believe as fact and which are fiction?


and why do people so fervently quote the bible like its gospel, oops sorry some of it is, - apparently.


if someone wrote revelations nowadays, theyd be accused of trippin.

anyway the church have very conveniently not said they believe his theory, theyve just offered a hint of understanding, to agree with darwin undermines the very existence of their religion and a few others besides - I bet they are nervous about the big bang experiment too.

What if by proving evolution and/or the big bang created life caused the church to collapse by proving that we/the world was not created by an ethereal being?

Thats alot of property up for sale and jobs lost.

Are we on the verge of a human meltdown? the disproving of god would cause a massive change to take effect. The very foundations of most societies would collapse affecting schools, national holidays, tourism etc etc


here we are back at the reason for the inquisition again!

walk with crooked shoes www.myspace/syblepurplelishous
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Reply #6 posted 09/15/08 7:14am

razor

It it's true, then its both surprising and welcome. The church (whether Catholic of Anglican) faces a dilemma in that it's only chance to survive lies in modernisation, but modernisation will itself undermine the core basis of the church.

Personally, if I was in charge, I'd go full on the the modernisation as at least this would give them a chance to find a useful role in modern society.

Either way thought, the decline of the church looks inevitable, which is no bad thing.

I wonder if we will see similar enlightment on issues such as contraception/homosexuality/abortion? Too much to ask surely...
[Edited 9/15/08 7:15am]
[Edited 9/15/08 7:15am]

"It is an established maxim and moral that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false is guilty of falsehood, and the accidental truth of the assertion does not justify or excuse him"

Abraham Lincoln
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Reply #7 posted 09/15/08 7:40am

HiinEnkelte

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razor said:

It it's true, then its both surprising and welcome. The church (whether Catholic of Anglican) faces a dilemma in that it's only chance to survive lies in modernisation, but modernisation will itself undermine the core basis of the church.

Personally, if I was in charge, I'd go full on the the modernisation as at least this would give them a chance to find a useful role in modern society.

Either way thought, the decline of the church looks inevitable, which is no bad thing.

I wonder if we will see similar enlightment on issues such as contraception/homosexuality/abortion? Too much to ask surely...
[Edited 9/15/08 7:15am]
[Edited 9/15/08 7:15am]


similar enlightenment?
the church does not deny that contraception, same-sex attraction, or abortion exist. they never did.

.
[Edited 9/15/08 7:41am]

Welcome to the New World Odor and
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LIBERALISM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY
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Reply #8 posted 09/15/08 7:44am

yxl1

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razor said:

It it's true, then its both surprising and welcome. The church (whether Catholic of Anglican) faces a dilemma in that it's only chance to survive lies in modernisation, but modernisation will itself undermine the core basis of the church.

Personally, if I was in charge, I'd go full on the the modernisation as at least this would give them a chance to find a useful role in modern society.

Either way thought, the decline of the church looks inevitable, which is no bad thing.

I wonder if we will see similar enlightment on issues such as contraception/homosexuality/abortion? Too much to ask surely...
[Edited 9/15/08 7:15am]
[Edited 9/15/08 7:15am]


If I was in charge I'd abandon the whole concept of religion and give my vast wealth to developing countries. Surely THAT would be a christian thing to do lol

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Reply #9 posted 09/15/08 7:48am

razor

HiinEnkelte said:

razor said:

It it's true, then its both surprising and welcome. The church (whether Catholic of Anglican) faces a dilemma in that it's only chance to survive lies in modernisation, but modernisation will itself undermine the core basis of the church.

Personally, if I was in charge, I'd go full on the the modernisation as at least this would give them a chance to find a useful role in modern society.

Either way thought, the decline of the church looks inevitable, which is no bad thing.

I wonder if we will see similar enlightment on issues such as contraception/homosexuality/abortion? Too much to ask surely...
[Edited 9/15/08 7:15am]
[Edited 9/15/08 7:15am]


similar enlightenment?
the church does not deny that contraception, same-sex attraction, or abortion exist. they never did.

.
[Edited 9/15/08 7:41am]


No, they simply simply wish they didn't and still live in a state of effective denial to accept reality and modernise. Just as they did with evolution for so long. The enlightment I mention is a similar change of opinion, as I suspect you already knew.[b]

"It is an established maxim and moral that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false is guilty of falsehood, and the accidental truth of the assertion does not justify or excuse him"

Abraham Lincoln
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Reply #10 posted 09/15/08 7:49am

razor

yxl1 said:

razor said:

It it's true, then its both surprising and welcome. The church (whether Catholic of Anglican) faces a dilemma in that it's only chance to survive lies in modernisation, but modernisation will itself undermine the core basis of the church.

Personally, if I was in charge, I'd go full on the the modernisation as at least this would give them a chance to find a useful role in modern society.

Either way thought, the decline of the church looks inevitable, which is no bad thing.

I wonder if we will see similar enlightment on issues such as contraception/homosexuality/abortion? Too much to ask surely...
[Edited 9/15/08 7:15am]
[Edited 9/15/08 7:15am]




If I was in charge I'd abandon the whole concept of religion and give my vast wealth to developing countries. Surely THAT would be a christian thing to do lol


A Third Way as Blair would have said. Damn good point...

"It is an established maxim and moral that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false is guilty of falsehood, and the accidental truth of the assertion does not justify or excuse him"

Abraham Lincoln
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Reply #11 posted 09/15/08 7:54am

HiinEnkelte

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razor said:

HiinEnkelte said:



similar enlightenment?
the church does not deny that contraception, same-sex attraction, or abortion exist. they never did.

.
[Edited 9/15/08 7:41am]


No, they simply simply wish they didn't and still live in a state of effective denial to accept reality and modernise. Just as they did with evolution for so long. The enlightment I mention is a similar change of opinion, as I suspect you already knew.[b]


is there a new scientific slam dunk theory of morality that i'm not aware of?

Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Mythmaking Moonbattery of Obamanation.

Chains We Can Bereave In

LIBERALISM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY
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Reply #12 posted 09/15/08 7:58am

ehuffnsd

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syble said:

good. shame he doesnt know. seems pointless really.

now maybe its time the catholic church apologised for the inquisition and the massacre of scientists and theologists and free thinkers.

been wronged by the Catholic Church through the years. Even before he became the Pope, he was a prominent editor and supporter of initiatives like the Letter of Reconciliation of the Polish Bishops to the German Bishops from 1965. During his reign as a Pope, he publicly made apologies for over 100 of these wrongdoings, including:

The conquest of Mesoamerica by Spain in the name of the Church
The legal process on the Italian scientist and philosopher Galileo Galilei, himself a devout Catholic, around 1633 (31 October 1992).
Catholics' involvement with the African slave trade (9 August 1993).
The Church Hierarchy's role in burnings at the stake and the religious wars that followed the Protestant Reformation (May 1995, in the Czech Republic).
The injustices committed against women, the violation of women's rights and for the historical denigration of women (10 July 1995, in a letter to "every woman").
The inactivity and silence of many Catholics during the Holocaust (see the article Religion in Nazi Germany) (16 March 1998)
For the execution of Jan Hus in 1415 (18 December 1999 in Prague). When John Paul II visited Prague in 1990s, he requested experts in this matter "to define with greater clarity the position held by Jan Hus among the Church's reformers, and acknowledged that "independently of the theological convictions he defended, Hus cannot be denied integrity in his personal life and commitment to the nation's moral education." It was another step in building a bridge between Catholics and Protestants.
For the sins of Catholics throughout the ages for violating "the rights of ethnic groups and peoples, and [for showing] contempt for their cultures and religious traditions". (12 March 2000, during a public Mass of Pardons).
For the sins of the Crusader attack on Constantinople in 1204. (4 May 2001, to the Patriarch of Constantinople).

it is necessary to help others, not only in our prayers, but in our daily lives. If we find we cannot help others, the least we can do is to desist from harming them.
Dalai Lama
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Reply #13 posted 09/15/08 8:14am

razor

HiinEnkelte said:

razor said:



No, they simply simply wish they didn't and still live in a state of effective denial to accept reality and modernise. Just as they did with evolution for so long. The enlightment I mention is a similar change of opinion, as I suspect you already knew.[b]


is there a new scientific slam dunk theory of morality that i'm not aware of?


no, this is not about morals. Its about the church's stout refusal to adapt, accept reality and modernise. This has undoutably contributed to its demise. I offer no opinion as to whether it would be morally right or wrong to do so, I merely point out the fact that it has contributed to its own downfall by not doing so and this is likely to continue the longer it stays stuck in the past. If that is what the church wants i.e. to be morally consistent rather than relevant, that's it's choice.

But there can be no doube that it's medieval stance on evolution, for example, greatly harmed its standing and credibility. It continuing stance on the other areas I mentioned continues to do the same...

"It is an established maxim and moral that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false is guilty of falsehood, and the accidental truth of the assertion does not justify or excuse him"

Abraham Lincoln
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Reply #14 posted 09/16/08 2:23am

Dsoul

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They don't specifically say evolution is sound theory, moreso admit that they were wrong to bully and attempt to silence his viewpoint.

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Reply #15 posted 09/17/08 1:21am

foal30

it's nice to see people apologizing for bullying and attempting to silence viewpoints eh comrades?

Springs arrived here, and my glasshouse is a looking fine.

The Church's inability to modernize may in fact be it's salvation. For if the Bible is in fact the word of God should the passing of time dilute it's content or specifically highlight current issues?

Don't get me wrong I struggle to take advice from some celibate/chaste guy on Family issues, and I clearly struggle with Gay Marriage being a moral issue yet slaughtering 500 000 Iraqi's apparently not being so.

cloths of mixed fibers etc, the fact is most take their belief structures from many sources and clearly edit out the bits that create dissonance.

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Reply #16 posted 09/17/08 2:06am

razor

foal30 said:

it's nice to see people apologizing for bullying and attempting to silence viewpoints eh comrades?

Springs arrived here, and my glasshouse is a looking fine.

The Church's inability to modernize may in fact be it's salvation. For if the Bible is in fact the word of God should the passing of time dilute it's content or specifically highlight current issues?

Don't get me wrong I struggle to take advice from some celibate/chaste guy on Family issues, and I clearly struggle with Gay Marriage being a moral issue yet slaughtering 500 000 Iraqi's apparently not being so.

cloths of mixed fibers etc, the fact is most take their belief structures from many sources and clearly edit out the bits that create dissonance.



Quite possibly, but It think it's more likely that by the time they are ever proved right, they will have long ceased to exist, cast aside as am irrelvant, out of touch sect by modern society

"It is an established maxim and moral that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false is guilty of falsehood, and the accidental truth of the assertion does not justify or excuse him"

Abraham Lincoln
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