Since I am familiar with the story of Creation within the Bible, I have always been curious about how those that do not follow the teachings (or see the Bible as a truth) see creation as having happened?

LittleRedCorvette said:

The conditions which formed our world are still being debated and will probably never be known. Refered to as the goldilocks effect and BIG bang around 4.7 billion years ago.

Since then bacteria and then more complex organisms have evolved to create the species we see here today.

see : Charles Darwins - 'Origin of species'

I am no scientist so excuse my stumblings around this.

If you use a piano keyboard as a measurement of the history of this planet humans have been here for less than the width of a string in the piano - the bible could be measure in less than the width of a piece of dental floss.

NancyMoonbeam said:

It was actually 13 billion years ago, with "life" starting around 4-5 billion years ago. Impossible to even think in those vast terms.

Although, we can not scientifically rule out that a diety created the universe yet ( I am one of those who beleive that we will solve this), we can cast huge doubts, and in some areas, disprove the creation story (Adam and eve, age of the earth and so on and so forth).

One fasinating little fact is that our moon is actually formed largely from the earth. It was created when a huge "planet" (i.e. big chunk of rock) collided with the infant earth. The resultant debris eventually settled into what we know as the moon and remained trapped in our gravitational pull. This is a known fact. I don't know about anyone else, but I find it wonderful that we can have such knowledge and understanding instead of having to repsort to the "see that moon, bugger knows how that got there. Must have been God" type of thinking.
[Edited 9/1/08 8:12am]

razor said:

13 Billion - phew that certainly is a long time !

I too find the real facts about our universe more enlightening and awe inspiring than the supernatural side of the story.
I am not sure we will solve the deity concept ? even with hard facts many will not see reason.

NancyMoonbeam said:

Thats a good point. Even if sceintists could catagorically and in every way disprove the existence of a diety, there would still be a bunch of poeple who would simply deny the facts, just as there are those who still deny evolution. Amazing really...

The reason why I asked is because the other night I was thinking about creation, about the Big Bang Theory and other theories of creation, and it came to me "Where then did matter arise from in which these planets, gasses, etc come from?" All matter has a beginning. What was "space" like before the formation of matter? Was it a huge void of nothingness? And if so, where then did the first piece of matter arise from? So that is why I was asking for those that do not hold to the Biblical concepts of Creation, because how does one get around the origins of matter? It had to come from somewhere, something, it can't have "just appeared".

Regarding the story of Adam and Eve, there is a more esoteric way of viewing that story, but I'd rather not get into that on this thread.

LittleRedCorvette said:

Ummmm. The Bible says it just appeared.

LittleRedCorvette said:

Ummmm. The Bible says it just appeared.

LittleRedCorvette said:

Ummmm. The Bible says it just appeared.

SUPRMAN said:

Ummm. The Bible says God spoke and it appeared! Is this as far fetched as the big bang or darwinism?

The reason why I asked is because the other night I was thinking about creation, about the Big Bang Theory and other theories of creation, and it came to me "Where then did matter arise from in which these planets, gasses, etc come from?" All matter has a beginning. What was "space" like before the formation of matter? Was it a huge void of nothingness? And if so, where then did the first piece of matter arise from? So that is why I was asking for those that do not hold to the Biblical concepts of Creation, because how does one get around the origins of matter? It had to come from somewhere, something, it can't have "just appeared".

Regarding the story of Adam and Eve, there is a more esoteric way of viewing that story, but I'd rather not get into that on this thread.

One thing I've long been curious about: The Bible has two creation stories. Which one do people who believe the Bible think is the true version? Or do you think they are both compatible?

SUPRMAN said:

Ummm. The Bible says God spoke and it appeared! Is this as far fetched as the big bang or darwinism?

LittleRedCorvette said:

engery= mass x the speed of light squared.

it could be possible that matter just engery before the big bang?

Efan said:

jinx you owe me a coke.

ehuffnsd said:

but then where did the energy come from? Going by the definition for Energy, one doesn't get mass from energy, rather one gets energy from mass times the speed of light squared. And then again, where did mass and the speed of light come from? In order for there to be light, there must be something generating that light. In order for there to be mass, there must be something from which mass is created. In order for there to be energy, there must be something which generates that energy. From where did each arise?

LittleRedCorvette said:

that i don't know. it's the same question where did the Creator come from?

Spirit (or energy - added by me), being the only existing Substance, had naught but Itself with which to create. Spirit and Its universal creation could not be essentially different, for two ever-existing Infinite Forces would consequently each be absolute, which is by definition an impossiblitiy. An orderly creation requires the duality of Creator and created. Thus, Spirit first gave rise to a Magic Delusion, Maya, the cosmic Magical Measurer, which produces the illusion of dividing a portion of the Indivisible Infinite into separate finite objects, even as a calm ocean becomes distorted into individual waves on its surface by the action of a storm. All creation is nothing but Spirit, seemingly and temporarily diversified by Spirit's creative vibratory activity.

Word means intelligent vibration, intelligent energy, going forth from God. Any utterance of a word, such as "flower," expressed by an intelligent being, consists of sound energy or vibration, plus thought, which imbues that vibration with intelligent meaning. Likewise, the Word that is the beginning and source of all created substances is Cosmic Vibration imbued with Cosmic Intelligence.

Thought of matter, energy of which matter is composed, matter itself--all things--are but the differently vibrating thoughts of the Spirit even as man in his dreams creates a world with lightening and clouds, people being born or dying, loving or fighting, experiencing heat or cold, pleauser or pain. In a dream, births and deaths, sickness and disease, solids, liquids, gases are but differently vibrating thoughts of the dreamer. This universe is a vibrtory dream motion picture of God's thoughts on the screen of time and space and human consciousness...

...by the scientists, the structure of matter, its tissue or material, is also known, to a lesser degree as cosmic vibration.

A cosmic vibration omnipresently active in space could not of itself create or sustain the wondrously complex cosmos. The universe is not the result omerely of a fortuitous combination of vibrating forces and subatomic particles, as proposed by material scientists--a chance excrescence of solids, liquids, and gases into earth, oceans, atmosphere, plants, all harmoniously interrelated to provide a habitable home for human beings. Blind forces cannot organize themselves into intelligently structured objects. As human intelligence is needed to put water into the small square compartments of an ice tray to be frozen into cubes, so in the coalescence of vibration into progressively evolving forms throughout the univers we see the results of a hidden Immanent Intelligence. ~ Paramahansa Yogananda "The Second Coming of Christ" p.9-11

topperharley said:

Damn newb, take it easy. You trying to set record for posts in a day?
[Edited 9/1/08 9:52am]

Edited to add the following quote as well...


[Edited 9/1/08 10:26am]

LittleRedCorvette said:

as always very enlighting

ehuffnsd said:

lol ~ Perhaps. But I'm still curious where others feel "energy", "matter", etc., came from in order to start this big ol' ball a bouncing. I'm always reading that it's foolish to believe some Divine being got all this going, that it is random, but no one ever explains where the original forms of these things came from. It had to start somewhere, but where?

topperharley said:

what about the two different versions of creation in gensis?

the first one where man was created after all the animals and the second where man was created and than the animals were created.

topperharley said:

Damn newb, take it easy. You trying to set record for posts in a day?
[Edited 9/1/08 9:52am]

SUPRMAN said:

LOL ~ So are you saying that you agree with the Bible in this regards?

What is to say that there wasn't a Divine Creator who created matter to begin with, and evolution then took place?
[Edited 9/1/08 9:46am]

LittleRedCorvette said:

engery= mass x the speed of light squared.

it could be possible that matter just engery before the big bang?

ehuffnsd said:

but then where did the energy come from? Going by the definition for Energy, one doesn't get mass from energy, rather one gets energy from mass times the speed of light squared. And then again, where did mass and the speed of light come from? In order for there to be light, there must be something generating that light. In order for there to be mass, there must be something from which mass is created. In order for there to be energy, there must be something which generates that energy. From where did each arise?

Edited to add the following quote as well...


[Edited 9/1/08 10:26am]