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Thread started 08/09/08 1:56pm

SUPRMAN

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Georgia, Russia and the impotent U.S.

News Analysis
Georgia Clash Provides a Lesson on the United States’ Need for Russia


Article Tools Sponsored By
By HELENE COOPER
Published: August 9, 2008

WASHINGTON The image of President Bush smiling and chatting with Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin of Russia from the stands of the Beijing Olympics even as Russian aircraft were shelling Georgia outlines the reality of America’s Russia policy. While America considers Georgia its strongest ally in the bloc of former Soviet countries, Washington needs Russia too much on big issues like Iran to risk it all to defend Georgia.

And State Department officials made it clear on Saturday that there was no chance the United States would intervene militarily.

Mr. Bush did use tough language, demanding that Russia stop bombing. And Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice demanded that Russia respect Georgia’s territorial integrity.

What did Mr. Putin do? First, he repudiated President Nicolas Sarkozy of France in Beijing, refusing to budge when Mr. Sarkozy tried to dissuade Russia from its military operation. It was a very, very tough meeting, a senior Western official said afterward. Putin was saying, ‘We are going to make them pay. We are going to make justice.’

Then, Mr. Putin flew from Beijing to a region that borders South Ossetia, arriving after an announcement that Georgia was pulling its troops out of the capital of the breakaway region. He appeared ostensibly to coordinate assistance to refugees who had fled South Ossetia into neighboring Russia, but the Russian message was clear: This is our sphere of influence; others stay out.

What the Russians just did is, for the first time since the fall of the Soviet Union, they have taken a decisive military action and imposed a military reality, said George Friedman, chief executive of Stratfor, a geopolitical analysis and intelligence company. They’ve done it unilaterally, and all of the countries that have been looking to the West to intimidate the Russians are now forced into a position to consider what just happened.

And Bush administration officials acknowledged that the outside world, and the United States in particular, had little leverage over Russian actions.

There is no possibility of drawing NATO or the international community into this, said a senior State Department official in a conference call with reporters. There is none. There is not a danger of a regional conflict in our mind.

The unfolding conflict in Georgia set off a flurry of diplomacy. Ms. Rice and other officials at the State Department and the Pentagon have been on the telephone with Russia’s foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, and other Russian counterparts, as well as with officials in Georgia, urging both sides to return to peace talks.

The European Union — and Germany, in particular, with its strong ties to Russia — called on both sides to stand down and scheduled meetings to press their concerns. At the United Nations, members of the Security Council met informally to discuss a possible response, but one Security Council diplomat said it remained uncertain whether, with Russia and China both holding veto power on the Council, much could be done.

“Strategically, the Russians have been sending signals that they really wanted to flex their muscles, and they’re upset about Kosovo,” the diplomat said. He was alluding to Russia’s anger at the West for recognizing Kosovo’s independence from Serbia earlier this year.

Indeed, the decision by the United States and Europe to recognize Kosovo may well have paved the way for Russia’s lightning-fast decision to send troops to back the separatists in South Ossetia. During one meeting on Kosovo in Brussels this year, Mr. Lavrov, the foreign minister, warned Ms. Rice and European diplomats that if they recognized Kosovo, they would be setting a precedent for South Ossetia and other breakaway provinces. As easily as the West could encourage a former Russian satellite toward independence and away from Russia’s sphere of influence, the Russians warned, so too, could Moscow encourage pro-Russian breakaway regions like South Ossetia to follow suit.

For the Bush administration, the choice now becomes whether backing Georgia which, more than any other former Soviet republic has allied with the United States on the South Ossetia issue is worth alienating Russia at a time when getting Russia’s help to rein in Iran’s nuclear ambitions is at the top of the United States’ foreign policy agenda.

One United Nations diplomat joked on Saturday that if someone went to the Russians and said, ‘OK, Kosovo for Iran,’ we’d have a deal.

That might be hyperbole, but there is a growing feeling among some officials in the Bush administration that perhaps the United States cannot have it all, and may have to choose its priorities, particularly when it comes to Russia.

The Bush administration’s strong support for Georgia including the training of Georgia’s military and arms support came, in part, as a reward for its support of the United States in Iraq. The United States has held Georgia up as a beacon of democracy in the former Soviet Union; it was supposed to be an example to other former Soviet republics of the benefits of tilting to the West.

But that, along with America and Europe’s actions on Kosovo, left Russia feeling threatened, encircled and more convinced that it had to take aggressive measures to restore its power, dignity and influence in a region it considers its strategic back yard, foreign policy experts said.

Russia’s emerging aggressiveness is now also timed with America’s preoccupation with Iraq and Afghanistan, and the looming confrontation with Iran. These counterbalancing considerations mean that Moscow is in the driver’s seat, administration officials acknowledged.

We’ve placed ourselves in a position that globally we don’t have the wherewithal to do anything, Mr. Friedman of Stratfor said. One would think under those circumstances, we’d shut up.

One senior administration official, when told of that quote, laughed. Well, maybe we’re learning to shut up now, he said. He asked that his name not be used because he was not authorized to speak publicly on the issue.

C. J. Chivers contributed reporting.

Meanwhile, civic knowledge is enhanced by discussing public affairs, taking part in civic activities and reading about current events and history, the group said.


Which is why we have P & R!
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Reply #1 posted 08/09/08 2:13pm

mdiver

Why the hell should the US do anything? It has fuck all to do with you.

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Reply #2 posted 08/09/08 2:26pm

Snap

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ezekiel 38 & 39
it's coming soon

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Reply #3 posted 08/09/08 4:19pm

JellyBean

Great article. The U.S. can't do anything but sit and watch.

“Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.” John Stuart Mill
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Reply #4 posted 08/09/08 6:13pm

PurpleJedi

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JellyBean said:

Great article. The U.S. can't do anything but sit and watch.


The U.S. SHOULDN'T do anything but sit and watch!!!

If Prince.Org shuts down, I'm writing SLAVE on my left buttcheek!
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Reply #5 posted 08/10/08 4:20am

savoirfaire

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Snap said:

ezekiel 38 & 39
it's coming soon


From Wikipedia:

In the Tanakh or Old Testament, the Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel in the Book of Ezekiel chapters 38-39 speaks of a specific invasion carried out by a coalition of nations against the Land of Israel. This invasion will be led by an individual referred to as "Gog", who is said to originate from "The Land of Magog" (Ezekiel 38:1-2). Hence, the battle is often called the "War of Gog and Magog." Ezekiel states that the invading armies will lose without a battle, when God rains down fire and brimstone on their military forces (Ezekiel 38:20-22). Gog of the Land of Magog, the Chief Prince of Meshech and Tubal, pillages the Land of Israel, and is destroyed by fire from heaven and for seven months, Israel buries the corpses in a valley called "Hamon-Gog."


Yeah, this is definitely referring to Russia's invasion of a small province of Georgia. Totally. neutral

I'm only in it for the music.
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Reply #6 posted 08/10/08 11:50am

ChristopherTra
cy319

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Since the turn of World War II the United States has continuously acted as a moral and political authority throughout the world. The United States has always tried resolve conflicts in various countries, both peacefully and militarily. But has our government overstepped its bounds and become a hypocrite to the rest of the world?

The ongoing conflict between Russia and Georgia over territory in South Ossetia has exposed the U.S. to the large void we have created in foreign relations. On Sunday the White House warned that "disproportionate" actions against Georgia would have "a significant long term impact on U.S.-Russia relations." Is the U.S. really in a position to voice concern over "disproportionate" actions?

In 2003 the United States began its war in Iraq and we haven't looked back. How "disproportionate" has that war been? We have maintained a troop level lower than was needed to maintain stability, but that does not change the fact that U.S. technology dominates the battlefield on a "disproportionate" level. Even during the initial push to Baghdad our military dominated the battlefield and met little resistance from Iraqi Army and Republican Guard units. Since 2003 American fighter jets, tanks, helicopters, armored personnel vehicles, and smart bombs have dominated the conflict. While the Iraqi threat has changed from soldier to insurgents blended with civilians. Despite the ongoing loss of American troops the loss of Iraqi citizens and insurgents alike, has been much greater. Since March 2003, 4,137 American troops have died in Iraq, compared to an estimated 94,000 Iraqi casualties. Is that not "disproportionate"?

While the politics between Russia and Georgia are complicated and South Ossieta sits in the middle there is clarity within the conflict. No matter the politics of it, Georgia and Russia each have a military with weapons, equipment, soldiers, and uniforms. Georgia has a legitimate military that has fought in conflicts in that region since the fall of the Soviet Union. The Georgian military is battle hardened and equipped to at least put up a fight against a much larger Russian military. In addition to having an actual military this conflict has risen from "legitimate" border disputes as well as secession issues with South Ossetia and Abkhazia. The war in Iraq was based on.....well what is it now?

It is time for the White House to begin thinking twice before they start pointing fingers. It amazes me how the White House has been quick to jump on Russia for a conflict that has already been going on for years, yet they continue to turn a blind eye to Sudan, Darfur, and Somalia.
And in the mean time our "War on Terror" is stuck in neutral. Perhaps some of this concern has to do with Georgia's recent investments in Oil and Natural Gas pipelines throughout the region, not to mention Georgia's support for the war in Iraq. They say the Cold War ended but perhaps there was only a cease fire.

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Reply #7 posted 08/10/08 12:06pm

JellyBean

PurpleJedi said:

JellyBean said:

Great article. The U.S. can't do anything but sit and watch.


The U.S. SHOULDN'T do anything but sit and watch!!!


True. But you know how we like to mess in other people's business.

“Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.” John Stuart Mill
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Reply #8 posted 08/10/08 1:14pm

AriesIII

Snap said:

ezekiel 38 & 39
it's coming soon


they don't believe...goodie evillol

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Reply #9 posted 08/10/08 1:21pm

Tremolina

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mdiver said:

Why the hell should the US do anything? It has fuck all to do with you.

depends on how you look at it.

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Reply #10 posted 08/10/08 1:32pm

AriesIII

savoirfaire said:

Snap said:

ezekiel 38 & 39
it's coming soon


From Wikipedia:

In the Tanakh or Old Testament, the Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel in the Book of Ezekiel chapters 38-39 speaks of a specific invasion carried out by a coalition of nations against the Land of Israel. This invasion will be led by an individual referred to as "Gog", who is said to originate from "The Land of Magog" (Ezekiel 38:1-2). Hence, the battle is often called the "War of Gog and Magog." Ezekiel states that the invading armies will lose without a battle, when God rains down fire and brimstone on their military forces (Ezekiel 38:20-22). Gog of the Land of Magog, the Chief Prince of Meshech and Tubal, pillages the Land of Israel, and is destroyed by fire from heaven and for seven months, Israel buries the corpses in a valley called "Hamon-Gog."


Yeah, this is definitely referring to Russia's invasion of a small province of Georgia. Totally. neutral


This book is about defiance and stupidity...defiance of the people and powers that be to cease their barbaric ways, stupidity cause it demonstratates that once again, God's so-called chosen actin a fool. lol

Any one who presumes themselves to be superior over another and seeks to oppress via force/violance/social manipulation others, bound to self destruct...eventually.

If folks cannot live in peace and harmony with one another, the aggressor is bound to fail at his own hand...history has proven such to be unfailing.

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Reply #11 posted 08/10/08 3:02pm

foal30

has our government overstepped it's bounds and become a hypocrite in the eyes of the rest of the world?

yes, but that was in 1837, now your viewed as the primary supplier of terror worldwide. I do like the connection between Kosovo and Georgia, it is remarkable how one is normal and moral, the other is bad and wrong.

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Reply #12 posted 08/10/08 8:28pm

savoirfaire

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AriesIII said:

savoirfaire said:



From Wikipedia:

In the Tanakh or Old Testament, the Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel in the Book of Ezekiel chapters 38-39 speaks of a specific invasion carried out by a coalition of nations against the Land of Israel. This invasion will be led by an individual referred to as "Gog", who is said to originate from "The Land of Magog" (Ezekiel 38:1-2). Hence, the battle is often called the "War of Gog and Magog." Ezekiel states that the invading armies will lose without a battle, when God rains down fire and brimstone on their military forces (Ezekiel 38:20-22). Gog of the Land of Magog, the Chief Prince of Meshech and Tubal, pillages the Land of Israel, and is destroyed by fire from heaven and for seven months, Israel buries the corpses in a valley called "Hamon-Gog."


Yeah, this is definitely referring to Russia's invasion of a small province of Georgia. Totally. neutral


This book is about defiance and stupidity...defiance of the people and powers that be to cease their barbaric ways, stupidity cause it demonstratates that once again, God's so-called chosen actin a fool. lol

Any one who presumes themselves to be superior over another and seeks to oppress via force/violance/social manipulation others, bound to self destruct...eventually.

If folks cannot live in peace and harmony with one another, the aggressor is bound to fail at his own hand...history has proven such to be unfailing.


Native Americans failed, and lost - their lives, their land, everything

African tribes failed an lost to slavery

Many countries have been lost to aggressors, their failures have since been forgotten. History is documented by the winners. The winners are either rebel uprisings that fight against tyrrany, or colossal powers that quell the dissidents. History has not proven anything to be unfailing.

I'm only in it for the music.
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Reply #13 posted 08/10/08 9:42pm

ChristopherTra
cy319

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savoirfaire said:

AriesIII said:



This book is about defiance and stupidity...defiance of the people and powers that be to cease their barbaric ways, stupidity cause it demonstratates that once again, God's so-called chosen actin a fool. lol

Any one who presumes themselves to be superior over another and seeks to oppress via force/violance/social manipulation others, bound to self destruct...eventually.

If folks cannot live in peace and harmony with one another, the aggressor is bound to fail at his own hand...history has proven such to be unfailing.


Native Americans failed, and lost - their lives, their land, everything

African tribes failed an lost to slavery

Many countries have been lost to aggressors, their failures have since been forgotten. History is documented by the winners. The winners are either rebel uprisings that fight against tyrrany, or colossal powers that quell the dissidents. History has not proven anything to be unfailing.

Well put. History goes in cycles, and what we are seeing is the Russia's goal to become the power they once were. And they are very well on their way. Additionally we are seeing the rise China as a major "Super Power". It kind of reminds me of when the Roman Empire fell. Every one is trying to get their piece of the pie. The sad thing is, America decided to waste their time on fighting a defacto war on "terrorism" instead also focusing their attention the rise of the other guys. Oh, ignorance has been our downfall for too long! It is the history of this country to fall behind on identifying the real threats to this country and our allies. We never realize who our enemy is until we are too late. I could go on forever.

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Reply #14 posted 08/10/08 9:49pm

kimrachell

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so sad! neutral

i love my husband and son!
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Reply #15 posted 08/10/08 9:56pm

SUPRMAN

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ChristopherTracy319 said:

savoirfaire said:



Native Americans failed, and lost - their lives, their land, everything

African tribes failed an lost to slavery

Many countries have been lost to aggressors, their failures have since been forgotten. History is documented by the winners. The winners are either rebel uprisings that fight against tyrrany, or colossal powers that quell the dissidents. History has not proven anything to be unfailing.

Well put. History goes in cycles, and what we are seeing is the Russia's goal to become the power they once were. And they are very well on their way. Additionally we are seeing the rise China as a major "Super Power". It kind of reminds me of when the Roman Empire fell. Every one is trying to get their piece of the pie. The sad thing is, America decided to waste their time on fighting a defacto war on "terrorism" instead also focusing their attention the rise of the other guys. Oh, ignorance has been our downfall for too long! It is the history of this country to fall behind on identifying the real threats to this country and our allies. We never realize who our enemy is until we are too late. I could go on forever.


Russia is no longer capable of being a 'superpower.' China is at least a generation away from even pretensions to being a superpower.
The U.S. cannot maintain it's economic superiority in sheer numbers but can as far as innovation and adaptability.
China is not yet our adversary but neither of us seems capable of acting any other way than to be believe we will inevitably end up there. If we think that way that is the future we will create for ourselves.

Meanwhile, civic knowledge is enhanced by discussing public affairs, taking part in civic activities and reading about current events and history, the group said.


Which is why we have P & R!
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Reply #16 posted 08/10/08 10:11pm

lazycrockett

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savoirfaire said:

Snap said:

ezekiel 38 & 39
it's coming soon


From Wikipedia:

In the Tanakh or Old Testament, the Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel in the Book of Ezekiel chapters 38-39 speaks of a specific invasion carried out by a coalition of nations against the Land of Israel. This invasion will be led by an individual referred to as "Gog", who is said to originate from "The Land of Magog" (Ezekiel 38:1-2). Hence, the battle is often called the "War of Gog and Magog." Ezekiel states that the invading armies will lose without a battle, when God rains down fire and brimstone on their military forces (Ezekiel 38:20-22). Gog of the Land of Magog, the Chief Prince of Meshech and Tubal, pillages the Land of Israel, and is destroyed by fire from heaven and for seven months, Israel buries the corpses in a valley called "Hamon-Gog."


Yeah, this is definitely referring to Russia's invasion of a small province of Georgia. Totally. neutral



Hey the fundies haven't been able to use that bit of propaganda since the mid 80's. Nice to see the old girl dusted off and back in play.

You Can Not Go Against Nature
Cause When You Do
To Go Against Nature
Is Part Of Nature Too.
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Reply #17 posted 08/10/08 11:07pm

savoirfaire

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But I gotta say, the day that fire and brimstone decimates any aggressor armies against Israel, that day, I'm going to church, and I'm not leaving it until I'm dead.

I'm only in it for the music.
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Reply #18 posted 08/11/08 3:08am

Tremolina

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SUPRMAN said:

Russia is no longer capable of being a 'superpower.' China is at least a generation away from even pretensions to being a superpower.


Don't be surprised once the Chinese have passed you within 10 years, nor when it appears that Russia can do anthing it pleases.

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Reply #19 posted 08/11/08 3:14am

BombSquad

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Snap said:

ezekiel 38 & 39
it's coming soon

i suggest you better check more recent sources and educate yourself about current affairs and developments, instead of wishy washy Nostradamus like prophecies and fables written thousands of years ago
[Edited 8/11/08 3:15am]

Wright | Pfleger 2012
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Reply #20 posted 08/11/08 5:02am

thepope2the9s

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Okay so US Backed Georgia starts a provocation with Russia and the media makes it seem like Russia is the bad guy, and for those saying the US needs to stay out of it...sorry ...we are behind it. While Bush is off at the Olympics holding flags backwards, Cheney is pushing the buttons at home....maybe we were preparing for this for a while now?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25684774/

I dont know if people realize that this has the potential to escelate into some scary shit.....

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful WORKS OF DARKNESS, but rather EXPOSE THEM.. Ephesians 5:11"
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Reply #21 posted 08/11/08 5:44am

ChristopherTra
cy319

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Tremolina said:

SUPRMAN said:

Russia is no longer capable of being a 'superpower.' China is at least a generation away from even pretensions to being a superpower.


Don't be surprised once the Chinese have passed you within 10 years, nor when it appears that Russia can do anthing it pleases.

Exactly.

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Reply #22 posted 08/11/08 5:56am

ChristopherTra
cy319

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Tremolina said:

SUPRMAN said:

Russia is no longer capable of being a 'superpower.' China is at least a generation away from even pretensions to being a superpower.


Don't be surprised once the Chinese have passed you within 10 years, nor when it appears that Russia can do anthing it pleases.


Here is a little food for thought. I always love the argument that China is a generation away from being a "super power", I think we have been hearing that for a couple of generations now.

The Beijing government has announced a 17.6% rise in its defence budget, meaning it will spend about 417.8bn yuan ($59bn; £30bn) over the next year.

This increase was not unexpected. Between 2003 and 2007, defence spending increased by an average of 15.8% a year.

Officials say the rises were necessary to make up ground on other nations, because between 1979 and 1989 military spending declined by an average of 5.8% a year.

"These increases were of a compensatory nature to make up for the weak defence foundation," said Jiang Enzhu, a spokesman for China's legislature, the National People's Congress.

But other nations and international organisations fear that China spends far more than it admits.

In a report released just before Beijing announced its budget, the US Defense Department estimated China's military spending in 2007 at between $97bn and $139bn - more than double the figure given by Beijing.


How does China compare with other countries?

The US spends far more on defence than any other nation.

Not including the cost of the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq, US President George W Bush recently asked for a budget of $515bn for the next fiscal year.

It's impossible for neighbouring countries and others in the world to understand 20 straight years of double-digit increases

Nobutaka Machimura
Japanese government spokesman

According to recent figures, the US spends more than 4% of its GDP on defence. China admits to spending just 1.4%.

In cash terms, the UK government admits to being the next biggest spender on defence, setting aside $64.7bn for the next year. This accounts for 2.5% of the GDP.

Beijing's official figures put its spending about on a par with France - although if the Pentagon's figures are correct, China has the second-biggest defence budget in the world.


What will China spend the money on?

Mr Jiang says the huge budget is needed to safeguard "independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity".


Officials say military personnel need better salaries, better training and higher-quality meals.

They also claim there will be more spending on fuel after recent hikes in oil prices.


China is determined to be a powerful international player
Technological hardware is also needed to enable China to conduct military operations under what officials term "IT-based conditions".

The BBC's China analyst, Shirong Chen, says the country is developing its own costly GPS technology - called the Big Dipper - which will involve sending 35 satellites into orbit.

And he says the government is faced with a spiralling pensions bill, with the number of retired soldiers rising each year.


What do other nations think about China's expenditure?

The US is not happy. During the past few years, Washington has repeatedly accused China of spending as much as three times its officially-declared budget.

The BBC's world affairs correspondent, Nick Childs, says the US is determined to maintain its position as a major Pacific power, while Beijing seems equally determined to assert what it sees as its rightful place on the world stage.

He says both sides know that China has the greatest potential of any country to challenge US military power in the long term.

It is a fluid and edgy regional strategic dynamic that also sucks in the other big Asian powers - like Russia, Japan and India, our correspondent adds.

These countries, too, are wary of China's military rise.

Japanese government spokesman Nobutaka Machimura said of China's latest spending announcement: "It's impossible for neighbouring countries and others in the world to understand 20 straight years of double-digit increases".

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Reply #23 posted 08/11/08 6:31am

seekingtruth

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foal30 said:

has our government overstepped it's bounds and become a hypocrite in the eyes of the rest of the world?

yes, but that was in 1837, now your viewed as the primary supplier of terror worldwide. I do like the connection between Kosovo and Georgia, it is remarkable how one is normal and moral, the other is bad and wrong.



You guys say what you want....if we don't get involved in some way, the rest of the world is going to be whining and crying about our lack of interest.

Pro-american or not, the rest of the world depends on us.

True genius is knowing how little
you really know.

http://www.myspace.com/46757894
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Reply #24 posted 08/11/08 6:36am

JellyBean

seekingtruth said:

foal30 said:

has our government overstepped it's bounds and become a hypocrite in the eyes of the rest of the world?

yes, but that was in 1837, now your viewed as the primary supplier of terror worldwide. I do like the connection between Kosovo and Georgia, it is remarkable how one is normal and moral, the other is bad and wrong.



You guys say what you want....if we don't get involved in some way, the rest of the world is going to be whining and crying about our lack of interest.

Pro-american or not, the rest of the world depends on us.



The rest of the world lol They could care less. As for the world depending on us. The rest of the world knows who the real aggressors are, so they are hoping that we mind our own affairs for once and stay the heck away.

Heck we can't even go help people in Darfur and we have a ship right in their own backyard.

“Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.” John Stuart Mill
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Reply #25 posted 08/11/08 6:40am

Tremolina

avatar

seekingtruth said:

foal30 said:

has our government overstepped it's bounds and become a hypocrite in the eyes of the rest of the world?

yes, but that was in 1837, now your viewed as the primary supplier of terror worldwide. I do like the connection between Kosovo and Georgia, it is remarkable how one is normal and moral, the other is bad and wrong.



You guys say what you want....if we don't get involved in some way, the rest of the world is going to be whining and crying about our lack of interest.

Pro-american or not, the rest of the world depends on us.

but you don't care anyway what "the rest of the world" thinks, so thats no excuse for being a terrorist.

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Reply #26 posted 08/11/08 6:45am

BombSquad

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seekingtruth said:

You guys say what you want....if we don't get involved in some way, the rest of the world is going to be whining and crying about our lack of interest.

Pro-american or not, the rest of the world depends on us.


no. the majority in the world rather knows that the US is by far more dangerous than Iran or anyone else for that matter. the rest of the world want's you to keep your dirty fingers out of what is none of your business. you've proven to be incompetent in solving anything on international level with failed miltary operations since decades. you can cease to exist now and the world will be better place.

Wright | Pfleger 2012
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Reply #27 posted 08/11/08 7:23am

mdiver

seekingtruth said:

foal30 said:

has our government overstepped it's bounds and become a hypocrite in the eyes of the rest of the world?

yes, but that was in 1837, now your viewed as the primary supplier of terror worldwide. I do like the connection between Kosovo and Georgia, it is remarkable how one is normal and moral, the other is bad and wrong.



You guys say what you want....if we don't get involved in some way, the rest of the world is going to be whining and crying about our lack of interest.

Pro-american or not, the rest of the world depends on us.


I am from the "rest of the world" and i wish you would stay the fuck out of everyone elses shit. Sort your own mess out first.
I mean you guys cant even run a Prez campaign without sexism or racism, what right do you have to tell anyone what to do.
Back the fuck off America

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Reply #28 posted 08/11/08 7:33am

JellyBean

mdiver said:

seekingtruth said:




You guys say what you want....if we don't get involved in some way, the rest of the world is going to be whining and crying about our lack of interest.

Pro-american or not, the rest of the world depends on us.


I am from the "rest of the world" and i wish you would stay the fuck out of everyone elses shit. Sort your own mess out first.
I mean you guys cant even run a Prez campaign without sexism or racism, what right do you have to tell anyone what to do.
Back the fuck off America


Where u from, mdiver?

“Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.” John Stuart Mill
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Reply #29 posted 08/11/08 7:38am

mdiver

JellyBean said:

mdiver said:



I am from the "rest of the world" and i wish you would stay the fuck out of everyone elses shit. Sort your own mess out first.
I mean you guys cant even run a Prez campaign without sexism or racism, what right do you have to tell anyone what to do.
Back the fuck off America


Where u from, mdiver?


Earth giggle

Nah UK, so unfortunately we get tarred with the same brush as you ALOT and it pisses me off. With the greatest respect American foreign policy is a joke and laughing stock in Europe

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